This Greville Janner interview has simply disappeared from the website of the Holocaust Educational Trust, “founding patron” Greville Janner, and from other such websites which used to host it. I can only now find it on my own blog and on a few places which copied it from my blog. It is an important interview for reasons which are very obvious if you read it.
I was taken up to the Kinderheim, to the Children’s Home, where there were some sixty orphan children, most of whose lives had been saved by monasteries, by being out in the woods or by miracles in each case and they all spoke Yiddish and I didn’t speak Yiddish and it was very difficult to talk to them but we knew some of the same songs so we sang together in Hebrew they knew and I knew the songs and then one of them said to me the first Yiddish words I’ve ever learnt , he said “Gavreal”, which is Greville in Hebrew and (he) called me “Gavreal spishtie ping pong, ping pong” and he pushed back and forwards as though he was holding a ping pong bat so my first words in Yiddish were “ping pong” and I played Ping Pong with them and they taught me a few words of Yiddish and I found it such a moving experience that for the next eighteen months I went back to them every weekend…
The deletion is not acknowledged – the evidence has simply been quietly expunged. The irony of the Holocaust Educational Trust, which exists to keep alive the evidence of a dreadful crime, expunging evidence of crime which it finds inconvenient, does not need to be emphasised by me.
Janner’s being Jewish was irrelevant to his being a paedophile. So was his being a Zionist. But he was not just any old Zionist. He was the acknowledged leader of Zionism in the UK. He was President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Vice President of the World Jewish Congress, he was Vice President of the Association for Jewish Youth, Vice President of the Jewish Leadership Council, President of the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women, on the Advisory Board of the Community Security Trust, Chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust and Director of the United Jewish Israel Appeal.
These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile, yet they apparently feel no necessity to condemn his activities or to acknowledge what has happened, merely secretly deleting any particularly embarrassing references. It is like the attitude of the Catholic Church on paedophilia thirty years ago.
David Cameron, echoed by the corporate media, calls upon the millions of law-abiding Muslims in the UK to denounce and distance themselves from a few terrorist nutters with whom 99.99% of British Muslims have no connection anyway. That apparently is acceptable. But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.
This is a stinking double standard.
“There’s no claim as far as I can see that he abused anyone at the Auschwitz Kinderheim, either. It may be that the HET know differently. Time will possibly tell.”
It seems to me that what is at the heart of the matter here relates to the concept of Jewish exclusivism and the potential conflicts of interest that this implies. I don’t think people should be pressured into refraining from discussing the notion of Jewish exclusivism – particularly when purely Jewish boards appear to be impervious to the notion of diversity they espouse.
I think what Craig has touched on here is very important – that being the question of ethnocentric and nationalist-based loyalties which, in this instance, pertain to Jewishness. This it seems to me goes to the heart of why it is that Jewish only boards are apparently reluctant to disavow themselves of Janner.
Just looked again, and the top of the thread still lacks contents. Title “The Janner Standard” by itself hardly reveals what the news is.
Lysias, my post was at 1234 (read all of it). It is now 1534, and half an hour ago was 1504. I call distraction.
“That’s a valid point. No matter whether you like Janner, or not. The court of public opinion may have found him guilty, but the court of law is the one that matters. Or at least, it does if we are to make any claim to a regard for justice. There’s no claim as far as I can see that he abused anyone at the Auschwitz Kinderheim, either. It may be that the HET know differently. Time will possibly tell.”
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Yes Baal it’s a very valid point, Janner has and has had very prominent positions,within certain organizations,he has powerful and influencial friends.
Will justice be done? Or seen to been done, regarding Janner? as it would be for Joe Bloggs?
I for one think not, others however may have a different point of view.
Here in the U.S., it’s notorious how sexual abusers in Orthodox Jewish communities do not get reported to authorities because there’s extreme social pressure among such Jews not to report. (As there was among Catholics in past generations.) There was quite a powerful article in The New Yorker a few months back about the travails the Brooklyn father of a boy who was abused by an official in a synagogue who was closely associated with rabbis went through after he, the father, reported the abuse to authorities. So we may never hear about some of the abuse that Janner committed.
“Janner’s being Jewish was irrelevant to his being a paedophile.” – Not necessarily so – IF he applied some of the infamous things written in the Talmud (which seeks to claim superiority over the torah).
Ba’al, I still have read none of it (and neither did some of the commenters). Perhaps there’s a problem having to do with different Web browsers.
“The Jewish/Zionist community should come out and condemn their former leaders actions, if some have already so then I openly acknowledge their stance.”
But will the media unite in their calls for the said community to condemn Janner in the manner they call for Muslim community to condemn their leaders’?
“The deletion is not acknowledged – the evidence has simply been quietly expunged. The irony of the Holocaust Educational Trust, which exists to keep alive the evidence of a dreadful crime, expunging evidence of crime which it finds inconvenient, does not need to be emphasised by me.”
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Why quietly expunged the evidence, I mean Janner hasn’t been convicted yet, could it be that they have information that Janner will be convicted ergo removing such material forehand would leave them less likely to criticism.
Of course all the organisations you mention Craig, are we assuming that they were “in the know” or so to speak?
Craig. You are PC. Hence you are unable to lay the blame where it is due.
Perhaps you are a Zionist. Many many of them in the UK establishment or ex establishment.
Janner will not be prosecuted. Mossad said so. Just look at your findings in Tunisia.
“But will the media unite in their calls for the said community to condemn Janner in the manner they call for Muslim community to condemn their leaders’?”
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Yes Daniel that’s a very good point, I think we both know the answer to that question,off hand I can think of two national newspapers,who’d never run such a story,due to their owners and their affiliations.
I think Chomsky had a good insight with regard to elite institutions, ruling classes etc.
“There are some things it just wouldn’t do to talk about – even think”. -loose quote..
Acceptable subjects deemed ‘credible’ creates a very narrow talking shop. Don’t rock to boat, Careerism. etc
However, the taboo against discussing pedophile activities of the establishment may well now be breaking down.
Alcyone
You may well be right. And why not some “politico-poetic licence” – except it’s a little strange coming so soon after Craig put Res Dissident, Anon1 and me on notice for allegedly stirring up Jew-hating/baiting comments.
More generally, good to see you on here, all hands on deck is the motto if we are to have a chance of effectively combatting the loonies and dingbats! 🙂
Keep up the incisive and hard-hitting comments.
On an observatrional note: Habbabkuk (la vita è bella) is quite skilled in his art (subtle distraction), just nudging things enough so as to go unnotices but far enough but to enable shrouding of the main point I am so glad that Daniel 29 Jun, 2015 – 2:13 pm took the time to point it out.
Habbabkuk 29 Jun, 2015 – 1:38 pm:
“BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”
Daniel:
The point is though, they haven’t. On the contrary, as Craig’s commentary would seem to suggest, they appear to be rallying around him.
RT: Israel intercepts & escorts Gaza flotilla flagship, RT columnist aboard:
According to RT, the Israeli Navy boarded and occupied the boat 100 nautical miles from its destination, Gaza. Which means that this happened in international waters and was an act of piracy (like the seizure of the Mavi Marmara a couple of years ago).
Here’s a link to the New Yorker article, for those who may want to read it: The Outcast: After a Hasidic man exposed child abuse in his tight-knit Brooklyn community, he found himself the target of a criminal investigation.
“I think Chomsky had a good insight with regard to elite institutions, ruling classes etc.
“There are some things it just wouldn’t do to talk about – even think”. -loose quote..
Acceptable subjects deemed ‘credible’ creates a very narrow talking shop. Don’t rock to boat, Careerism. etc”
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2015/790-when-free-speech-becomes-dead-silence-the-israel-lobby-and-a-cowed-academia.html
Lysias
Technically it’s not an act of piracy if it was a military ship that boarded in international waters. It’s an act of war against the flag nation of the Marianne.
Which would be Sweden, I believe. I wonder how the Swedes are reacting.
Can one not find out who removed the numerous links to the video, as well as publicise its existence?
You’ll never get in an acceptable party posting articles, topics? like this. Maybe there is hope for you yet.
In the mean time expect only insurrection, dissent etc from me. As it seems to me you back many institutional forms that always result in issues like this, that’s power and money for you. I see no ‘exceptions’. Just higher levels of injustice people are willing to accept, generally, as they climb.
After all we are all bias, we all accept some injustice for our own comfort. So what’s the difference between lot’s and little? I Imagine that’s how it’s justified.
@3.47pm
That should be ‘all Israeli Navy hands on deck’.
I put that link up earlier Lysias. The poor, poor Palestinians.
This is a new report from Medical Aid for Palestinians. Shocking.
No More Impunity: Gaza’s health sector under attack
New report highlights attacks on hospitals and medics in 2014 military offensive on Gaza
No More Impunity
Medical Aid for Palestinians’ latest report, ‘No More Impunity: Gaza’s Health Sector Under Attack’, highlights the devastating attacks on Gaza’s medical facilities and personnel, and obstruction of medical access, which occurred during the 2014 military offensive on Gaza
http://www.map-uk.org/campaign-with-us/no-more-impunity-gazas-health-sector-under-attack–1
“These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile”
Craig,some months ago you provided your readers with a very careful analysis of the rape allegations against Julian Assange, from which you concluded- rightly in my opinion- that he committed no offence and has been maliciously accused for political reasons.
Have you analysed the allegations against Janner with equal care or are you just assuming that anyone accused of being a paedo must be a paedo, especially if you already dislike them for other reasons?
A man of your intelligence, education, and life experience should really not be guided by the principle that “there is no smoke without fire.” This is the most stupid saying in the English language- implying that anyone who has ever been accused of anything by anyone must be at least a little guilty.
I certainly hope there will be a court proccess of some kind in which evidence can be given and cross-examined.
Sorry, I know this is O/T, but I thought this had to be reported somewhere. Another RT story, but, since U.S. Supreme Court opinions are public, this must be true. Supreme Court upholds lethal injections:
I have not read the opinions, but the majority’s opinion seems to rest on the idea that, if lethal drugs cause pain, then all methods of execution cause pain, and therefore administering them must be legal. But the guillotine was devised during the French Revolution precisely to be a relatively painless way to execute, and it surely would be less painful than many long minutes of suffering caused by the lethal drugs. (And if we won’t use the guillotine because it would look bad, doesn’t using the lethal drugs look even worse?)
Thanks Habby and yes that was a bit like a quixotic ping-pong ball to throw in the wind. Of course it wouldn’t fly very far, would it? 😉
“except it’s a little strange coming so soon after Craig put Res Dissident, Anon1 and me on notice for allegedly stirring up Jew-hating/baiting comments.”
Strange, yes when you add that context. I haven’t noticed that such baiting is called for, even required.
(Perhaps the other way round? Ref:4:02 pm
@3.47pm
That should be ‘all Israeli Navy hands on deck’.)
Habbabkuk; “A very good point from Tim Hoddy, which I note has gone unanswered because thgeree is no answer to it:”
How can you think it a good point, if you yourself believe that Religion is relevant in other child abuse cases;
“Would anyone, I wonder, share my view that the perpetrators should, after they have served their sentences, be deported to the country(countries) whence they or their forefathers came so that they could practice their bestial predilections on young girls of their own country and religion?”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/01/uzbek-cotton-slavery-campaign/#comment-389572
BTW, I note that your previous response did not even attempt to deny that Craig’s previous Posts on this were indeed portrayed this as unacceptable racism by the Commentators I mentioned, which included yourself.
“There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza whatsoever,” claimed the official, commenting on the Israeli prime minister’s office sarcastically proposing the flotilla head for Syria instead. (RT report, linked above)
RIP the truth. Buried in an unmarked grave.
The World Bank doesn’t seem to have heard the good news about unlimited aid flooding across the crossing points into Gaza from generous Israel, either:
the lack of donor funds is not the “binding constraint on Gaza’s recovery” rather “the limitations on imports of construction materials into Gaza”.
“Therefore, taking into account legitimate security concerns of neighbouring countries, ways have to be found to drastically improve access to construction materials in Gaza,” the report said.
http://www.innation.org/gaza-is-facing-a-dangerous-fiscal-crisis-2.php
(at May 22, 2015)
” It’s an act of war against the flag nation of the Marianne.
Which would be Sweden, I believe. I wonder how the Swedes are reacting. ”
Well the UN ruled a previous boarding legal although condemned the excessive violence.
Photographs of the Marianne show her flying the Palestinian flag.
Kempe. By excessive violence do you mean execution?