This Greville Janner interview has simply disappeared from the website of the Holocaust Educational Trust, “founding patron” Greville Janner, and from other such websites which used to host it. I can only now find it on my own blog and on a few places which copied it from my blog. It is an important interview for reasons which are very obvious if you read it.
I was taken up to the Kinderheim, to the Children’s Home, where there were some sixty orphan children, most of whose lives had been saved by monasteries, by being out in the woods or by miracles in each case and they all spoke Yiddish and I didn’t speak Yiddish and it was very difficult to talk to them but we knew some of the same songs so we sang together in Hebrew they knew and I knew the songs and then one of them said to me the first Yiddish words I’ve ever learnt , he said “Gavreal”, which is Greville in Hebrew and (he) called me “Gavreal spishtie ping pong, ping pong” and he pushed back and forwards as though he was holding a ping pong bat so my first words in Yiddish were “ping pong” and I played Ping Pong with them and they taught me a few words of Yiddish and I found it such a moving experience that for the next eighteen months I went back to them every weekend…
The deletion is not acknowledged – the evidence has simply been quietly expunged. The irony of the Holocaust Educational Trust, which exists to keep alive the evidence of a dreadful crime, expunging evidence of crime which it finds inconvenient, does not need to be emphasised by me.
Janner’s being Jewish was irrelevant to his being a paedophile. So was his being a Zionist. But he was not just any old Zionist. He was the acknowledged leader of Zionism in the UK. He was President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Vice President of the World Jewish Congress, he was Vice President of the Association for Jewish Youth, Vice President of the Jewish Leadership Council, President of the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women, on the Advisory Board of the Community Security Trust, Chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust and Director of the United Jewish Israel Appeal.
These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile, yet they apparently feel no necessity to condemn his activities or to acknowledge what has happened, merely secretly deleting any particularly embarrassing references. It is like the attitude of the Catholic Church on paedophilia thirty years ago.
David Cameron, echoed by the corporate media, calls upon the millions of law-abiding Muslims in the UK to denounce and distance themselves from a few terrorist nutters with whom 99.99% of British Muslims have no connection anyway. That apparently is acceptable. But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.
This is a stinking double standard.
If it’s an act of war against Palestine, would that mean the Palestinians can bring a legal action against Israel in the ICC, or in the World Court?
Macky
I’m not sure what a previous post from me has to do with the question of whether Tim Hoddy’s point was a very good one or not.
In fact, Tim Hoddy’s point was an excellent one – so excellent that you have not attempted to argue against it but have preferred to raise an old quotation from me.
Get over it, good people – the boats were turned away without violence and that’s that. A good thing, as I’m sure many of you would (not) agree.
I know that’s probably upsetting for some of you because instead of deploring the death of ‘innocent’ people you are limited to bleating about whether it was an act of war and if so against whom.
Bit like having to eat a cold crumpet when you were looking forward to sinking your teeth into a juicy steak, eh what?
Indeed Lysias.
Might want to check with Malaysia how taking a stance against the chosen ones turns out. Planes go missing for months, then fall out of the sky. Miraculous.
I’m surprised they haven’t blamed Greece etc on Putin yet.
Always turns out to be a lone gunman, eh Craig?
I wonder if it is not against international maritime law for a vessel to fly the flag of a state or entity in the place of that of the state of registration?
Hab. Who cares?
More importantly did any executions take place.
Hab
You have to fly the correct flag – but you can fly any additional ones you like.
It really is quite appalling when the atmosphere of a blog is such that the impartial commenter has the impression, over and over again, that there are some who seem to prefer the worst outcome to every problem simply because that would give them yet another opportunity to splutter with righteous indignation (or worse…).
It’s called the truth. It catches up sooner or later.
As a reminder:
We want Janner prosecuted for crimes against children.
I know this is O/T, but I think anything about Greece is important news.
Joseph Stiglitz to Greece’s Creditors: Abandon Austerity Or Face Global Fallout:
Stiglitz says there is a threat to the whole world economy if Greece’s creditors continue to be stubborn. I suspect he is right. As I have said on this forum before, I am reminded of the atmosphere the weekend before Lehman Brothers was forced to declare bankruptcy. U.S. authorities refused to consider the obvious alternative — bail Lehman Brothers out, dismiss the management, and put governmental overseers in charge for the time being — because of their stubborn adherence to ideology, and the result was that the whole world economy nearly went under.
Destroying evidence on the internet is not that easy. The WayBack Machine still remembers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150316001532/http://hmd.org.uk/resources/stories/greville-janner
Lysias
29 Jun, 2015 – 3:00 pm said:
“Apparently, one of the charges that will be investigated is the sexual assault that Janner allegedly committed against a nine-year-old boy in the Chapel of St. Mary Undercroft underneath the Houses of Parliament:”
The alleged rape victim is called Paul Miller. Earlier this month Channel 4 News interviewed Miller. If interested you can find the interview here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMNmxyuSUIg
Janner’s historical sex charges amount to 22 allegations,of 9 alleged victims plus one in Scotland.
I must say I’m rather surprised that the DPP’s Alison Saunders had her decision overturned the first significant one to be so.
Should Saunders resign? She has faced calls to do so.
A judge will now decide if Lord Janner is fit to stand trial.
If not, he will face what is known as a “trial of the facts”, where a court hears evidence from alleged victims and decides only if Lord Janner committed the physical acts of abuse There will be no finding of guilt or conviction.
There are only three possible outcomes from a trial of the facts. They are a hospital order, a supervision order or an absolute discharge.
The jury can only make a finding that the defendant did the particular physical act. There cannot be a verdict of guilty.
In Lord Janner’s case, the process would involve the alleged victims giving evidence.
A trial of the facts would most likely be strenuously opposed by Lord Janner’s legal team, who would argue it was an abuse of the court process to subject him to any sort of trial where there had been so much adverse pre-trial publicity.
Habbabkuk; “In fact, Tim Hoddy’s point was an excellent one – so excellent that you have not attempted to argue against it but have preferred to raise an old quotation from me.”
No it was not a point at all, which you cannot see for the same reason that you cannot realize why your old quote was relevant; the point of issue is a question of hypocrisy, or as Craig put it, “stinking double standard”. When Asian child abuse cases make the headlines, or BBC former employees, or clerical sex abuse, nobody tries to argue that Asian community groups, or the BBC, or the Church, should not feed the need to apologise, quite the opposite in fact. Yet here, Tim Hoddy’s comment, which is actually an argumentative fallacy, seeks to hide the fact that a hypocritical exception should be made to Zionist and Jewish organisations, and even though the accused was a major figurehead for some of these groups.
Daniel
““BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”
The point is though, they haven’t. On the contrary, as Craig’s commentary would seem to suggest, they appear to be rallying around him.”
__________________
No, Daniel, the point of my post was to get Craig to give chapter and verse to back up his claim that “asking the Zionist and Jewish organisations to denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations is portrayed as unacceptable racism.”.
Habbabkuk,
Your point above seems to bare no relationship to both mine and Craig’s suggestion that a leading Jewish-only organisation appears to be rallying around a prominent and influential figure within the Jewish community accused of paedophile that he heads. Can you please address this specific point?
I know we are meant to be professionals. But ‘Peoples’ comments are asked for.
One of my responses relative to the subject and previous subjects, Is it really annoys me the automatic assumption or spread meme that the normal below the poverty line jo should be diligent in interaction (taxes ect) with the state. Now matter what they seems to be involved in.
In my case it’s somehow ‘legitimate’ to be fined thousands for not having the stomach to fill in forms (maddening in itself) Even without owing anything, to this murderous, pedophile infested establishment that milks us, that it may continue this…You have no legitimacy to justify anything over me. Just a bunch of followers. And btw, I think locking people in cages is barbarous. And the monopoly of force is DE-lgitamising…
The Establishment, law, state, there maybe some things I ‘comply’ with, happen to match basic civility to me. But there is no ultimate ‘legitimacy’ Just people like yourself telling people what’s proper…..It doesn’t work like that.
Do people a favor with that kind of crud….Or at least imagine others views as equal legitimacy even if different. Maybe some need the state or other things behind them because their own aren’t very solid. Ie, MINIONS… Not helping are you.
Derek @16h59
“Destroying evidence on the internet is not that easy. The WayBack Machine still remembers.”
Good point and quite right too. At any rate, the evidence is all with the CPS to present to the court.
Which fallacy, out of all the available fallacies, do you mean?
No one, as far as I know, has said that paedophilia is institutionalised in Zionism or Judaism. We have one man, who happens to be a jew, who has been accused of very serious crimes.
This was not the case with, for example the Catholic church where, it seems, that priests were committing crimes over decades and evidence was being systematically ignored by the church.
Quite frankly, it’s appealing to expect these organisations to speak out against Janner before there has been either a trial or trial of facts.
You may wish to argue against Zionism; if so, why not argue against the obscene justifications that so many people use to support the mass-murderous assaults against the people of Gaza? You’d have a much stronger case!
I said:
This should say, “appalling“
OldMark; “That’s a valid point. No matter whether you like Janner, or not. The court of public opinion may have found him guilty, but the court of law is the one that matters.”
In most other cases maybe, but less so in this case;
“he has been investigated by the police four times in the last 25 years. More than a dozen people came forward to say that they had been abused by the former MP at children’s homes, so the question of why he didn’t stand trial earlier remains. Last year a former detective sergeant told a national newspaper how despite finding “credible evidence” he received orders from above to limit his inquiries into Janner back in 1989. “The decision was clear, he will be interviewed by appointment and there won’t be a search of his home, his constituency office or his office in the Commons.. It was a decision made by people more senior than me,” Mick Creedon said.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20150629161241/http://rt.com/op-edge/250553-child-sex-abuse-janner-uk/
A cover-up by self-definition implies guilt does it not ?
“U.S. authorities refused to consider the obvious alternative — bail Lehman Brothers out, dismiss the management, and put governmental overseers in charge for the time being”
______________________
Which is more or less the alternative applied to Greece, wasn’t it? Greece was bailed out, the old govt was replaced by a (unfortunately short-lived) govt of technocrats and the Troika was put in charge.
So our Transatlantic Friend should be happy, shouldn’t he?
My point was that, in both cases, the alternative that would have avoided endangering the whole world economy was avoided, out of a blind adherence to ideology. What would have been appropriate against Lehman Brothers has obviously been a complete failure when applied to Greece.
Habbabkuk (la vita è bella) 29 Jun, 2015 – 4:45 pm
“It really is quite appalling when the atmosphere of a blog is such that the impartial commenter has the impression, over and over again, that there are some who seem to prefer the worst outcome to every problem simply because that would give them yet another opportunity to splutter with righteous indignation (or worse…).”
No what’s appalling is this goes on.
There is no “impartial commenter”.
It hasn’t only just happened. Ie Craig is not spilling the beans on a big new event. He’s just rabbiting on about some new minor update on a blog of actual people, and I for one do not hope for a worst outcome, one that’s been continuing for some time.
Perhaps it’s appalling, appearing to be setting posters against each-other, with sly simplified insinuations that they value there own closer to home issues over child molesters.
ps, and I don’t know what post could be more off subject than yours, but I hope it says.
Belfast Telegraph: Video: Labour MP John Mann – Lord Janner decision will ‘open can of worms’. Mann says in the video that he thinks this means cases will be brought against a lot of prominent people guilty of abuse.
Let us hope that he is right.
Daniel
“Your point above seems to bare no relationship to both mine and Craig’s suggestion that a leading Jewish-only organisation appears to be rallying around a prominent and influential figure within the Jewish community accused of paedophile that he heads. Can you please address this specific point?”
____________________
Craig’ post makes two main points – one in the penultimate paragraph, the other in the last paragraph.
My post addressed the point Craig makes in his last paragraph; I’ve made that clear twice.
It is therefore not surprising that my post bears no relationship to the point Craig made in his penultimate paragraph. Why should it?
+++++++++++++++++++
And – of you could be bothered to rea
Lysias. One hopes so. John Mann despises people who speak out against Zionists though. Worth checking him out I’m afraid to say.
For start of rabbit hole and the can of worms see my comment above. You’d be amazed when you do a bit of digging. Just google Anthony Charles Lynton Blair for starters.
We want Janner prosecuted for crimes against children. Nothing less will suffice.
Daniel
“Your point above seems to bare no relationship to both mine and Craig’s suggestion that a leading Jewish-only organisation appears to be rallying around a prominent and influential figure within the Jewish community accused of paedophile that he heads. Can you please address this specific point?”
____________________
Craig’ post makes two main points – one in the penultimate paragraph, the other in the last paragraph.
My post addressed the point Craig makes in his last paragraph; I’ve made that clear twice.
It is therefore not surprising that my post bears no relationship to the point Craig made in his penultimate paragraph. Why should it?
+++++++++++++++++++
And – if you could be bothered to read carefully, I did actually also say:
“BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”
Lysias, you’ve just done a reverse ferret as it’s known over here (but you know that, don’t you) 🙂
I trust that you will all be observing the minute’s silence this Friday?
You know it’d be the decent thing to do.
+++++++++++++++++++
Since Craig was writing about the lack of condemnation of Janner, I find it interesting that most of the posts about the Sousse massacre have been pissy little speculations on how many gunmen there were and no sympathy expressed for the innocent victims, nor condemnation of the cunt(s) who did the killing.
Should Lord Janner receive grace and favors for helping the police with their inquiries?, can he turn state evidence and get himself off the hook?