This Greville Janner interview has simply disappeared from the website of the Holocaust Educational Trust, “founding patron” Greville Janner, and from other such websites which used to host it. I can only now find it on my own blog and on a few places which copied it from my blog. It is an important interview for reasons which are very obvious if you read it.
I was taken up to the Kinderheim, to the Children’s Home, where there were some sixty orphan children, most of whose lives had been saved by monasteries, by being out in the woods or by miracles in each case and they all spoke Yiddish and I didn’t speak Yiddish and it was very difficult to talk to them but we knew some of the same songs so we sang together in Hebrew they knew and I knew the songs and then one of them said to me the first Yiddish words I’ve ever learnt , he said “Gavreal”, which is Greville in Hebrew and (he) called me “Gavreal spishtie ping pong, ping pong” and he pushed back and forwards as though he was holding a ping pong bat so my first words in Yiddish were “ping pong” and I played Ping Pong with them and they taught me a few words of Yiddish and I found it such a moving experience that for the next eighteen months I went back to them every weekend…
The deletion is not acknowledged – the evidence has simply been quietly expunged. The irony of the Holocaust Educational Trust, which exists to keep alive the evidence of a dreadful crime, expunging evidence of crime which it finds inconvenient, does not need to be emphasised by me.
Janner’s being Jewish was irrelevant to his being a paedophile. So was his being a Zionist. But he was not just any old Zionist. He was the acknowledged leader of Zionism in the UK. He was President of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, Vice President of the World Jewish Congress, he was Vice President of the Association for Jewish Youth, Vice President of the Jewish Leadership Council, President of the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women, on the Advisory Board of the Community Security Trust, Chairman of the Holocaust Educational Trust and Director of the United Jewish Israel Appeal.
These organisations were led by a man who was a predatory paedophile, yet they apparently feel no necessity to condemn his activities or to acknowledge what has happened, merely secretly deleting any particularly embarrassing references. It is like the attitude of the Catholic Church on paedophilia thirty years ago.
David Cameron, echoed by the corporate media, calls upon the millions of law-abiding Muslims in the UK to denounce and distance themselves from a few terrorist nutters with whom 99.99% of British Muslims have no connection anyway. That apparently is acceptable. But to ask that the Zionist and Jewish organisations denounce the long term criminal activities of the man who actually led those organisations, is portrayed as unacceptable racism.
This is a stinking double standard.
The innocent victims choose to bunch themselves all in one place, like a rich juicy strawberry to any terrorist.
They’re not interested in chuffing after some trekkers who are here there and everywhere one day, but not the other, these holiday resorts are magnets for these ‘cunts’ as habby calls them.
What do you want us to lament about Habby, some 300 people died this weekend in Syria and some more will die tomorrow. My son moved some month back into a fairly quiet student, teacher area. Three days later an OAP got murdered viciously three doors down from them, the actions of a deranged young man.
Over 3000 die on our roads, nobody cares about road kill. Look Habby if you want to play the propaganda thing and scream in a high pitched voice about it, you can, nobody will stop you.
But don’t try and cheer lead us into it, for all we know this young man could have had partners with differing sympathies, he might have been egged on by others, so lets not join your chorus.
But, we listen to your solo, well, some do.
“Since Craig was writing about the lack of condemnation of Janner, I find it interesting that most of the posts about the Sousse massacre have been pissy little speculations on how many gunmen there were and no sympathy expressed for the innocent victims, nor condemnation of the cunt(s) who did the killing.”
I note, maybe “or worse”… is not making any point related to the subject or any kind of insight into what may improve it, deeper causes etc. Just ‘impartiality’ is it?
No instead let’s get my point of my cheat (that i’m ok with) and then just leave it at that. I’d still not mod you for it as the kind of absurdity needs to be exposed sometimes, As does Craig’s.
@Pete: You make a very good point about Craig’s contrasting attitude to Julian Assange and Greville Janner both of whom are facing accusations of sexual offences neither of whom have been proven guilty or not guilty yet. Craig emphasizes in his above post that it is nothing to do with whether he agrees or disagrees with the political opinions of Janner yet he seems to give Assange (with whom he does have political affinity with) the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the rape charges he would face – should the day come when he is extradited to Sweden. Some feminists (and not only feminists) would see Craig’s defence of Assange – not to mention his forthcoming meeting with him – as not only buying into a patriarchal misogynistic narrative on rape – but also put Craig into the ranks of the ‘rape apologists’. Cath Elliott, who has written some interesting pieces in the CiF section of The Guardian wrote a controversial article on the Liberal Conspiracy blog site some time ago in which she expressed her disappointment with some on the left who seemingly automatically argued that Assange couldn’t possibly be guilty of rape simply because they shared his politics:
http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/12/04/why-its-wrong-to-casually-dismiss-the-allegations-against-julian-assange/
Food for thought?
I think Craig needs to be very careful about describing Greville Janner as a “predatory paedophile” before he has actually been found guilty of this in court. We are getting into the territory where Craig could be sued, I would imagine. Also, if we convicted people simply on suspicion of committing crimes then we would be going back to the days of the Salem Witch Trials – or even Stalinist Russia or the McCarthyite Communist witch-hunts in 1950s USA.
And, yes, Craig denounces ‘stinking hypocrisy’, but isn’t it a little hypocritical to treat terrible accusations made against one of your admired heroes totally differently to similarly terrible accusations made against someone you intensely dislike?
Gideonscokeandyourebroke @5.45
Your comment is predicated on unsound logic. Underlying your thesis is the notion that disproportionate incidences of paedophilia are accounted for by those who exercise positions of power. I too suspect this is indeed the case. But we cannot extrapolate from that, that paedophilia – as illustrated by your reference to Polanski, Allen etc – is correlated to Jews or Judaism.
Although it is arguably the case that there are a disproportionate amount of Jews who have been convicted of paedophilia when compared to the population at large, it doesn’t necessarily follow that this is indicative of a problem exclusively within the Jewish-Zionist diaspora community.
If we accept that paedophilia is in the main a symptom of the abuse of extreme forms of power(which is a legitimate point to argue), it nevertheless doesn’t follow that its a “Jewish problem”.
It could, though, be reasonably argued that it’s a “Zionist problem” in the sense that Zionism is indicative of power. It’s worth recalling that the majority of the world’s powerful Zionists are non-Jews.
Habbabkuk,
I repeat, would you care to address my specific point?
@Becky Cohen
29 Jun, 2015 – 6:35 pm
With Janner there are allegations of violent rape of children.
With Assange there are allegations of rape by one woman who agreed to go to bed with him (ie, having sex with her while she was asleep), and a second woman who alleges that Assange has sex with her without using a condom. In both cases the sex appears to have been consensual.
Are you seriously comparing that to the violent rape of children?
(and in some instances we are also talking about the violent murder of children; although I should stress that this is not included in the allegations against Janner)
Becky
The difference is that one of them is guilty and one of them is innocent. And I don’t believe that Janner went to the Kinderheim every weekend out of fondness for ping pong.
@Becky Cohen
“You make a very good point about Craig’s contrasting attitude to Julian Assange and Greville Janner both of whom are facing accusations of sexual offenses neither of whom have been proven guilty or not guilty yet.”
Maybe it shows Craig is less a standard issue Establishment type. Because in reality there is such a things as court of public opinion. And it matters. It matters to try and look into these things and get some kind of idea yourself. And if you had, as many do, maybe he contrast would not seem so odd.
Seem the major problem is bowing to opinions and practice of these institutions above all else. I’m sure some would like it if we did that, this would have never come to this amount of light without people pressure. Yes some tell me they don’t have ‘the’ power….*cough*.
And considering we know (in many areas) how can you just expect the state to sort this? they have been SHOWN they don’t so I assume your happy with the status quo.
Interesting that after an absence of three days on here, a certain poster comes steaming in when the subject is Janner, the HET and all the other groupings with which he is associated.
Seems* the major problem..
Hello mods 🙂
Daniel
“Habbabkuk,
I repeat, would you care to address my specific point?”
_________________
For the third and I’m afraid last time, Daniel:
“BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”
(written hours ago, Daniel).
I’m more interested in why these alleged paedophiles escape scrutiny of their activities over so many years.
Files going missing. Orders from above, closing down investigations.
Janner certainly seems to have been important politically.
People should remember that Cyril Smith wasn’t just any old backbench MP. Not only was he a darling of media, he also represented an important lynchpin in managing the third party. Ramsey talks about this.
It isn’t the case that someone will be protected just because they’re an MP. They’re protected because they’re serving a much greater interest.
Yet* some
meh, you get it.
@ Macky: “Habbabkuk; “Who has portrayed this as unacceptable racism?”
If memories serves right, on previous Threads here, both Anon1 & Becky Cohen have, if not yourself also.”
If you’ll remember rightly Macky, my objection was to do with Craig’s initial demand that “the Jewish community” had a duty to apologise as opposed to the organisations that had Janner at their head. He deleted this, but not before throwing his rattle out of the pram somewhat and saying he had deleted my post objecting to it because he felt I was an “anti-Semitic troll”.
Being anti-Jewish isn’t racist in the technical sense and neither is Islamophobia. Judaism and Islam have followers of all races. However, both being anti-Jewish and Islamophobic are usually racist by motivation, as Jewhaters and Islamophobes assume that Jews and Muslims must be of a particular race which they have attached various stereotypes to.
If Craig is going down the road of collective responsibility and guilt by association though, I’m somewhat puzzled as to why he feels only the nominally Jewish organisations that Janner was a member of should apologise – or even only the “Jewish community”. I mean, wasn’t he also a ‘high up’ in the Magic Circle and the International Brotherhood of Magicians – so by the same logic shouldn’t they also apologise to.
He is also Welsh, but ya know what? Not once have I heard the Welsh apologise for Greville Janner, nor the disgraced Ian Watkins (of Lost Prophets fame), not Wynne Evans the tenner from the Go Compare adverts (admittedly not a paedophile, but offensive none the less:) Then again, perhaps the “Welsh community” have apologised profusely – but I didn’t understand them as it was in Welsh. Which still won’t do, because everything must be bilingual in Wales kuz it’s racist towards the English then, init and can you imagine how *outraged* the Daily Mail would be?!
Moreover, if the Jewish community need to apologise, then what about people who are half-Jewish…does that mean that they just need to make a half-hearted apology…a shrug of the shoulders, or something?;) And what happens if someone is Jewish and a magician…or a Welsh Jewish magician? Do they need to apologise three times for being associated to Greville Janner in three separate ways…no sorry, should that be six times because they need to do it bi-lingually as they are Welsh?!
Seriously, has it ever occurred to anyone that throwing the public an octogenarian with dementia might precisely be a distraction by the establishment; an exercise in damage limitation to take the limelight off a more wide-ranging, deeply-rooted VIP paedophile ring with deeper roots and containing many more names? By allowing the spotlight to fall on Janner as the sole accused on trial do you know what I think might very well happen? The tide of sympathy might well turn away from those who are claiming that they were tortured and raped by an establishment paedophile ring to a frail old man with dementia – whether he is guilty or not, there’s a good chance that the general public will start to see him as a sad, confused man with a terminal illness being persecuted and the cause of those who argue that they are victims of horrendous child abuse will become totally discredited as some sort of medievalist witch-hunt with strongly anti-Semitic overtones.
Nevermind (18h24)
You would rather die than condemn the cunt(s) who carried out the Sousse hotel massacre, wouldn’t you.
Firstly you come close to saying it’s the tourists own fault (“The innocent victims choose to bunch themselves all in one place, like a rich juicy strawberry to any terrorist.”) and then you ramble on about road traffic deaths,, deaths in Syria and how your son lives near near where an OAP got murdered. And you end up with the meaningless “for all we know this young man could have had partners with differing sympathies, he might have been egged on by others”. So fucking what?
You really are a sick puppy, Nevermind.
Expecting a whole community (whether Jewish or Muslim) to justify themselves by apologising for someone who commits a crime is just as racist as someone who gets mugged by a guy who happens to be black and then blames all black people for it.
Btw…most of the Jewish organisations that Craig lists in his above post aren’t actually Zionist. They may contain a large proportion of members who happen to be Zionist or strong supporters of Israel, but then so does the Republican party of the USA. One, in particular, The Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women (AJEX) is an association for British armed forces veterans – not Israelis. Membership might well be open to someone who served in both the British armed forces and at another stage the Israeli – but only in the same way that it would be open to someone who served in the British armed forces and earlier or later on, say for instance, the Sultanate of Oman’s forces, the German or Russian forces etc.
Also, there will no doubt be (or have been) members who were British armed forces veterans who actually fought against the establishment of the State of Israel in 1947. There were Jewish soldiers in the British forces fighting against the Israelis during the war of independence. If I remember rightly, one of the two British army sergeants murdered by the Haggannah happened to be Jewish.
One of the other ones Craig writes about in the same breath as ‘Zionist’ organisations is the Board of Deputies of British Jews which came into being in 1760 – almost 200 years before the state of Israel even came into existence!
Becky Cohen
“If you’ll remember rightly Macky”
___________________
A vain request, Becky.
Macky is also pleading dementia.
“For the third and I’m afraid last time, Daniel:
“BTW and just to clarify : I have no problem with the idea that the organisations concerned should denounce Janner.”
That doesn’t address the specific point I referred to. So, I’ll make it clearer because you obviously have comprehension problems.
So for the umpteenth time, can you please comment on the specific suggestion that a leading Jewish-only organisation appears to be rallying around a prominent and influential figure within the Jewish community accused of paedophile that he heads?
Thanks in advance.
…And did anybody even realise that the first Zionist; the first person to try to put forward the idea of creating a homeland for the Jewish people in the area that’s now Israel, wasn’t Jewish (or even British) or at all Semitic for that matter, but was a nominally Catholic, but actually strongly atheist Corsican General in the French army, who’s otherwise gone down in history to be known as Napoleon Bonaparte?
Tim Hoddy; “Which fallacy, out of all the available fallacies, do you mean?”
Not an expert, perhaps False Analogy ; but it doesn’t matter because your ridiculous contra scenario has no realistic or meaningful relevance the point that Craig was making, hypocritical behaviour.
Tim Hoddy; “No one, as far as I know, has said that paedophilia is institutionalised in Zionism or Judaism.”
?? I hope you are not suggesting that paedophilia is institutionalised in British Asian communities, or the BBC !
Tim Hoddy; “We have one man, who happens to be a jew, who has been accused of very serious crimes.”
But also crucially happens to be a leading figurehead of various Zionists & Jewish groups.
Tim Hoddy; “This was not the case with, for example the Catholic church where, it seems, that priests were committing crimes over decades and evidence was being systematically ignored by the church.”
Err, like pedophile priests, Janner was also committing his crimes over decades, and whose incriminating evidence was also being covered-up.
Tim Hoddy;; “Quite frankly, it’s appalling to expect these organisations to speak out against Janner before there has been either a trial or trial of facts.”
Err, the problem is exactly the point that there has not been a trial from since when the first allegations were made 25 years ago, exactly because of the cover-ups !
The charges against Janner may not include murder (at least not yet), but Danczuk has accused him of torture.
@Daniel. It seems sound to me. I’ve been researching relentlessly for nearly 4 years now. That there is a profound link there is no doubt in my mind.
Oh and Zionist by name, Zionist by nature. Crypto or not. We’re just not allowed to say it as stipulated by Voltaire and Craig’s posting rules and Mr Cameron etc.
Which reminds me….
Did my comment about the USS Liberty get canned?
Have some Hasbara explained by a former Israeli minister (only 1 1/2 mins)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sdZbvPnU6QQ
The Israeli’s pay people to show them in a good light. Lots of people. I wonder how many on here? Any thoughts Craig?
Oh and all we want is for Janner to face trial for crimes against children. Isn’t that right?
Has Janner chaired any Welsh organizations, or even been a member of any?
He was indeed born in Cardiff, but, since he was educated at St. Paul’s School, London before being evacuated to Canada during World War Two, I imagine he left Wales at quite an early age.
Daniel
“So for the umpteenth time, can you please comment on the specific suggestion that a leading Jewish-only organisation appears to be rallying around a prominent and influential figure within the Jewish community accused of paedophile that he heads?”
_____________________
Who made that suggestion, Daniel? Is it in Craig’s post?
It may not be fair to saddle Israel with the sole blame for the attack on the USS Liberty. According to Peter Hounam in Operation Cyanide and Philip Nelson in his recent book LBJ: From Mastermind to Colossus, Israel only executed a plot dreamed up by Lyndon Johnson (in order to permit a U.S. attack on Nasser’s Egypt).
“Who made that suggestion, Daniel? Is it in Craig’s post?”
Thanks for the clarification that you do indeed have comprehension problems.
They are coming out of the woodwork, falling over each other, and as ever jumping to the defense of the pedophile pervert greville janner. The keyboard protection brigade condescending upon us all; wax lyrical about the due process of laws and courts.
Fact that the letter written to his 13 year old victim was read in an open court and entered into the record makes no difference to these protectors whom verily believe in the principles of see no evil, hear no evil and say no evil principles!
Further fact that the whole of the parliament happened to be coming out in support of the outed pedophile pervert, as the movers and shakers hustled to protect one of their own.
The risible rebuttals as seen in the unconscious drivel splattered around this thread in explaining away the sick crimes of the perverted sharp operative whom knew he could get away with his crimes, and he was above the laws all the same.
Although the same treatment of due process and laws are not to be extended to any would be offender if the culprit happens to be a Muslim. The oligarch owned media headlines would carry the headlines of Muslim ……. invectives abound and then proceed to lavishly explore the crimes and misdemeanors of the perverted Muslim. All the while the intolerant and racist treatment of the Muslims by pouring bile and hatred on all of the Muslim community.
The zeitgeist is now reflected in attempts to shut down “illegal mosques” (evidently Muslims now need to apply for a license to set up mosques). How far will the contracted out war of zionists on all things Islamic will go? What are the direct affects of these extreme measures on the wider scales and how will these affect every individual whilst the current Muslim patsy are being discriminated against so manifestly and clearly?
“If Craig is going down the road of collective responsibility and guilt by association though”
Is he?
Agree based upon the religion of jews, no no. But what about Jewish institutions made of individuals (i’d assume not all in them are jews) Ie, Is it a ‘collective’ responsibility of a group of individuals within any institution? To expose injustice if they know or suspect strongly? And that would include the Jewish institutions in this case.
Whatever, I Don’t want to be supporting Craig much (Probably guilty of innumerable ‘crimes’ beside the ones I know about) or ‘Guilty’ put em in a cage (though i’ll probably end up in one for being a victim, how it works for the lower classes)…Just out of harms way would be some accountability.
Why am I even on this blog. Mad, must be mad.