The Sunday Times has a story claiming that Snowden’s revelations have caused danger to MI6 and disrupted their operations. Here are five reasons it is a lie.
1) The alleged Downing Street source is quoted directly in italics. Yet the schoolboy mistake is made of confusing officers and agents. MI6 is staffed by officers. Their informants are agents. In real life, James Bond would not be a secret agent. He would be an MI6 officer. Those whose knowledge comes from fiction frequently confuse the two. Nobody really working with the intelligence services would do so, as the Sunday Times source does. The story is a lie.
2) The argument that MI6 officers are at danger of being killed by the Russians or Chinese is a nonsense. No MI6 officer has been killed by the Russians or Chinese for 50 years. The worst that could happen is they would be sent home. Agents’ – generally local people, as opposed to MI6 officers – identities would not be revealed in the Snowden documents. Rule No.1 in both the CIA and MI6 is that agents’ identities are never, ever written down, neither their names nor a description that would allow them to be identified. I once got very, very severely carpeted for adding an agents’ name to my copy of an intelligence report in handwriting, suggesting he was a useless gossip and MI6 should not be wasting their money on bribing him. And that was in post communist Poland, not a high risk situation.
3) MI6 officers work under diplomatic cover 99% of the time. Their alias is as members of the British Embassy, or other diplomatic status mission. A portion are declared to the host country. The truth is that Embassies of different powers very quickly identify who are the spies in other missions. MI6 have huge dossiers on the members of the Russian security services – I have seen and handled them. The Russians have the same. In past mass expulsions, the British government has expelled 20 or 30 spies from the Russian Embassy in London. The Russians retaliated by expelling the same number of British diplomats from Moscow, all of whom were not spies! As a third of our “diplomats” in Russia are spies, this was not coincidence. This was deliberate to send the message that they knew precisely who the spies were, and they did not fear them.
4) This anti Snowden non-story – even the Sunday Times admits there is no evidence anybody has been harmed – is timed precisely to coincide with the government’s new Snooper’s Charter act, enabling the security services to access all our internet activity. Remember that GCHQ already has an archive of 800,000 perfectly innocent British people engaged in sex chats online.
5) The paper publishing the story is owned by Rupert Murdoch. It is sourced to the people who brought you the dossier on Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction, every single “fact” in which proved to be a fabrication. Why would you believe the liars now?
There you have five reasons the story is a lie.
The parallel MI6/MI5 correlation where intelligence officers connect to specific UK ‘agents’ with the intent to radicalise young British men and women I find abhorrent.
The notion that these agents are informants is old school. I have proof that these traitors to their faith and morality, bankrolled into sedition, are responsible for realizing and perfecting the black art of provisioning the stock of terror.
The ‘above the pall’ MI5 officers who line the pockets of these stool pigeons are my mark. I will out them.
ita fiat
Technicolour
Well it’s a shame you didn’t take me up the issues. No one did. I’m surprised but your comment reads like just more tone patrol.
Yes it’s a shame you can’t make it.
What issues? You’re just saying you disagree while using a bludgeon to do so. And complaining that your bludgeon isn’t appreciated.
Oh hey, Resident Dissident, I thought you did support the Labour Party. That’s what you’ve always been saying.
That post was for information, btw.
“What issues? You’re just saying you disagree while using a bludgeon to do so. And complaining that your bludgeon isn’t appreciated.”
You see I thought I was raising the issue of how well meaning people become complicit in war mongering. People with good intentions getting quickly sucked down the shit hole. I suggest this is quite a fruitful conversation. I suggest we are witnessing this process very close up with the SNP. And with Craig if he had half the chance. The way Craig managed my questioning exemplified the very processes. He fluctuated between avoidance, misrepresentation, name calling and censorship.
Anyway that was the issue I thought I was raising. Seems I will have to try to be clearer in the future.
Lies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=80&v=ENk8QuDAvr8
There used to be this idea that you elected humans to be a brake on the machine.
To remedy any non-human outcomes.
That’s all reversed.
Managers are now little more than servants of the machine.
It’s a problem.
“how well meaning people become complicit in war mongering.”
There is no way I can see where either the SNP or, certainly, Craig are getting close to Gove’s stance (bomb them) on Syria, say.
Hey Craig Murray… that’s not the only lie in the media at the moment. There’s an even bigger one being rammed down everyone’s throat. I’m referring to the fake stories of British Muslims dashing off to Syria to join ISIS. The stories are fake and not a single blogger has caught onto it.
Since the media is ranting on that they were groomed online, you can be sure you’re internet freedoms will be curtailed any day soon.
I’ve noticed whenever there’s a lull in the ‘spewing hatred at the Muslims’, stories like these will surface in the media to readdress the balance. I mean god forbid if you were ever to forget that Muslims are your enemy.
Technicolour
“There is no way I can see where either the SNP or, certainly, Craig are getting close to Gove’s stance (bomb them) on Syria, say.”
“No way” you say!
Clearly I use war mongering, on of the worse crimes they commit, as shorthand for buying into the plutocratic agenda. The fact that the SNP are already backtracking and already buying into theis agenda is undeniable. You may argue it is an essential tactic in order to win votes (as liberals always do) but you simply cannot deny it is happening. Hell they are even buying into the unambigous war mongering (as in not shorthand but actual war mongering). NATO????!! NATO have a pretty fucking war mongering fucking aganda. The SNP used to say lets get out. They are now fucking happy with this.
Jesus fucking wept. What tosh you people say. What denial in the face of reality. What blind faith you have. It’s another fucking planet to me. Pathetic. Go on, rabbit away about how too fucking pure I am for not accepting NATO membership is an unavoidable compromise. Pathetic.
Technicolour
It is liberals like you who empower the plutocrats. Who sustain the war mongering. With all your idiotic thinking. “Oooh there’s no way they would ever do be that nasty”. Such denial. Really the right are one thing but they are a minority. YOU are the fucking obstacle.
And this is my whole point that ires you.
Jeff O
“The stories are fake ”
Interesting assertion. Got anything to back it up?
Techniclolour
Please just say if you still don’t grasp the “issue” I am raising. Cause it’s a bit more important than crying about the poor dead children day in, day fucking out. Bleeding heart hypocrisy.
Herbie
Thank god I’m not the only one here who sees this problem. Yes they are managers. I’m not convinced it was not ever thus though.
Are you coming Saturday?
Oh hey, Resident Dissident, I thought you did support the Labour Party. That’s what you’ve always been saying.
For your information I do and I am a member and have been for nearly 40 years.
They are too busy hating to notice the reality.
Did you find the sisters running to help their brothers in Syria in Jihad a tad far out from even the most insane anti Muslim propagandists? Julius Streicher would be taught a lesson by the oligarch owned media in how he should have been writing in der sturmer.
The constant drip hate on demand is taking a toll in our society and no one is taking a blind bit of notice. As per the oligarch owned media the latest “Jihadi” was selling his boxing gloves to make enough money for a ticket to go to Syria. Interestingly enough, the last Jihadi from Syria who was put on trial. He was quietly let go as his trial collapsed because the gubiment is supporting the same bunch of “terrorists” as this guy was fighting for!
But hey why should miserable truth stop a good two minutes hate session?
Phil, I’m with you on your highlighting how the system as presently set-up, ensures that it corrupts & forces compromises from even the most principled people; it’s a system that has been refined over centuries, and is so engrained in our society/culture that we think of it as natural, with the inherent notion that the controlling Elites know best, especially for safeguarding our national interests, exercising their control via the Deep State. They have managed to ring-fence the public debate about how this country is run via various tactics such as “National Security”, Jingoistic Patriotism, the myth of our “Right Honourable” parliamentary system, etc
This realization should make you appreciate even more the remarkable principled Truth-Sayers who have gone against the system, people like Tony Benn, the greatest politician of our generation, whose recent passing was marked with warm tributes even from his greatest political enemies, yet a certain Craig Murray just couldn’t bring himself to pen a few words.
Anyhow back to Glenn Greenwald;
Ok Phil, I’m glad that at least you think you know how it works ! 😉
Pleased also that Assange & Manning meet your anarchistic approval, which seems to rely on their respective incarcerations, so if Greenwald ever gets locked up, at least the knowledge that his fate meets your Martyr Credibility Test, will be of some comfort to him !
Joking aside, your main charge against him seems to be that the Snowden affair has not stopped the Surveillance State in its tracks, which seems rather a far-fetched expectation; you ignore the very real legal set-backs that the NSA has recently suffered directly as a result of Snowden’s revelations, and that an ever increasing percentage of Americans are now viewing Snowden as a hero rather than a traitor.
Yes eyebrows were raised when Greenwald & the two others agreed for Omidyar to fund First Look, but as he pointed out after the fuss over the Ukraine connection;
“Despite its being publicly disclosed, I was not previously aware that the Omidyar Network donated to this Ukrainian group. That’s because, prior to creating The Intercept with Laura Poitras and Jeremy Scahill, I did not research Omidyar’s political views or donations. That’s because his political views and donations are of no special interest to me – any more than I cared about the political views of the family that owns and funds Salon (about which I know literally nothing, despite having worked there for almost 6 years), or any more than I cared about the political views of those who control the Guardian Trust.
There’s a very simple reason for that: they have no effect whatsoever on my journalism or the journalism of The Intercept. That’s because we are guaranteed full editorial freedom and journalistic independence. The Omidyar Network’s political views or activities – or those of anyone else – have no effect whatsoever on what we report, how we report it, or what we say.”
So until it is shown that he is indeed bending his reporting because of Omidyar; I still give him the benefit of the doubt.
I will add that I read his Salon column for a number of years, and was always greatly impressed, as a quick run through his Wiki pages will verify the very impressive & large number of awards his journalism attracted;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Greenwald
Sorry Suhayl Saadi, but i can’t help juxtaposing these two comments from you;
“Does MI6 organise assassinations? Is their stated policy that they do not, just another lie? And what about MI5? Do they organise assassinations in Britain (including using various paramilitary organistaions in Northern Ireland)?” – Suhayl Saadi 14 Jun, 2015 – 12:06 pm
“Absolutely, Doug (8:35pm today). If any has any doubt about what the security forces/spooks are capable of on the domestic front, the key is to look at what happened in northern Ireland. Wrt Northern Ireland, even today, only the tip of the iceberg has come out.” – Suhayl Saadi 15 Jun, 2015 – 8:58 pm
..human rights in Britain has been “distorted and devalued”.
Agent Cameron
Runnymede 15th June 2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OExAyMEUT-8
Macky
“your main charge against him seems to be that the Snowden affair has not stopped the Surveillance State in its tracks”
More. I think this has become an operation to normalise surveillance as the surveillance accellerates.
I don’t have anything of substance to add to my argument. I guess we just wait and see if anything changes.
Greenwald making a mint from the establishment.
Surveillance is ever more progressing.
These are the current facts. Which I think you accept. So it seems we may be disagreeing about Greenwalds motivation and the usefulness of such ‘revelations’ (sic) in a vacuum of structural analysis.
Greenwalds motivation is largely moot. However, the constant ‘shock’ of ‘revelation’ news with zero wider context and analysis. I read recently that Greenwald has never used the word ‘class’ and hardly ever ‘imperialism’. I am repeating and trusting Tarzie over this. Perhaps you know otherwise.
Sorry should have been:
However, the constant ‘shock’ of ‘revelation’ news with zero wider context and analysis is a serious problem that teaches people nothing except it’s a mad, mad world!
And maybe it was one of the regular comment writers on Tarzie who made the claims about his use of ‘class’ and ‘imperilaism’.
And Macky, thanks for expressing some agreement with how the system corrupts.
Craig,
You have been fully vindicated and your critics on this blog scattered. See https://twitter.com/Kyle_Feldscher/status/610458305891278848 and Glen Greenwald’s tweet criticising Sunday Times.
Good piece as always from John Hilley ;
http://johnhilley.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/endangered-spies-and-other-daily-claims.html
After her recent low-key gate-keeping like defence of Snowden, Shami Chakrabarti tries again;
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/14/edward-snowden-hero-government-scare-tactics
Apt comment left under the latest revelations iro NI;
“The UK without any constitution and using conventions that can be moulded to to suit expediency is a very dangerous model of Government”
http://www.thejournal.ie/collusion-documentary-rte-what-we-learned-2164182-Jun2015/?utm_source=twitter_self
@Rob G, just read this scary article;
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/06/15/whats-really-going-on-at-fukushima/
As if the situation wasn’t bad enough, there’s the possibility that the stuxnet virus caused the situation to become even more catastrophic than it would have been otherwise; if so, we & the planet have paid the severest price in history for the most idiotic & reckless project yet implement by the out of control US & Israeli spy agencies.
J Coleman
“and Glen Greenwald’s tweet criticising Sunday Times.”
Oh dear god. One might expect a left gatekeeper to express an ostensibly left critique of the establishment. Otherwise they would not be a left gatekeeper. Do you even understand what is meant by ‘gatekeeper’ in this context?
It is a measure of how far down the shit hole we are when a right wing libertarian, working for a US imperialist, is a hero of the ‘left’. Or maybe I am wrong to assume you consider yourself of the left. Perhaps you think all that left right stuff is so last century.
Resident Dissident 10:30pm
“Been owned by the National Trust for many years so hardly the place for pocket revolutionaries to plot the downfall of the capitalist system!”
In Bristol it use to be Robin Hoods Retreat.