The Sunday Times has a story claiming that Snowden’s revelations have caused danger to MI6 and disrupted their operations. Here are five reasons it is a lie.
1) The alleged Downing Street source is quoted directly in italics. Yet the schoolboy mistake is made of confusing officers and agents. MI6 is staffed by officers. Their informants are agents. In real life, James Bond would not be a secret agent. He would be an MI6 officer. Those whose knowledge comes from fiction frequently confuse the two. Nobody really working with the intelligence services would do so, as the Sunday Times source does. The story is a lie.
2) The argument that MI6 officers are at danger of being killed by the Russians or Chinese is a nonsense. No MI6 officer has been killed by the Russians or Chinese for 50 years. The worst that could happen is they would be sent home. Agents’ – generally local people, as opposed to MI6 officers – identities would not be revealed in the Snowden documents. Rule No.1 in both the CIA and MI6 is that agents’ identities are never, ever written down, neither their names nor a description that would allow them to be identified. I once got very, very severely carpeted for adding an agents’ name to my copy of an intelligence report in handwriting, suggesting he was a useless gossip and MI6 should not be wasting their money on bribing him. And that was in post communist Poland, not a high risk situation.
3) MI6 officers work under diplomatic cover 99% of the time. Their alias is as members of the British Embassy, or other diplomatic status mission. A portion are declared to the host country. The truth is that Embassies of different powers very quickly identify who are the spies in other missions. MI6 have huge dossiers on the members of the Russian security services – I have seen and handled them. The Russians have the same. In past mass expulsions, the British government has expelled 20 or 30 spies from the Russian Embassy in London. The Russians retaliated by expelling the same number of British diplomats from Moscow, all of whom were not spies! As a third of our “diplomats” in Russia are spies, this was not coincidence. This was deliberate to send the message that they knew precisely who the spies were, and they did not fear them.
4) This anti Snowden non-story – even the Sunday Times admits there is no evidence anybody has been harmed – is timed precisely to coincide with the government’s new Snooper’s Charter act, enabling the security services to access all our internet activity. Remember that GCHQ already has an archive of 800,000 perfectly innocent British people engaged in sex chats online.
5) The paper publishing the story is owned by Rupert Murdoch. It is sourced to the people who brought you the dossier on Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction, every single “fact” in which proved to be a fabrication. Why would you believe the liars now?
There you have five reasons the story is a lie.
I’m sure that Tony Benn told an anecdote in an interview about being ushered into a British room abroad where it was safe to talk. But once in, he said, “I can’t think of anything secret to say.”
Feeling ever more at ease with your hypocrisy Craig?
If you are right Craig,and I have no reason to doubt you.
Then it’s a case of the security services,politicians and media cranking the BS up to defcon one.
Listening to that pompous bag if wind John Pienaar on the radio this morning you’d have thought a Russian and Chinese armada was sailing up the Thames.
The conversation spilled into how the American’s were just a little bit pissed at us for not spending more on bombs and bullets.
If you ask me it’s all about surpressing the freedoms of the people,oh look there’s a bad guy we made up,we’d better create this law and that law to keep you (quiet) safe.
“My day is complete. I have just come home and switched the BBC News channel on. There was Esler on Dateline with Aaronovitch (who advocated BLiar’s war which has led to the massive destabilization of the region) now calling for ‘boots on the ground’ to eradicate ISIS.
More war Mr Aaronovitch, Murdoch’s mouthpiece?”
Two Jewish-Zionists talking shop:
“The BBC’s Newsnight…..devoted the first 28 minutes of its September 14 edition to the financial crisis at Northern Rock bank. At 28:53 anchor Gavin Esler said:
“More than a million Iraqis have been killed since the invasion in 2003, according to the British polling company ORB. The study’s likely to fuel controversy over the true, human cost of the war. It’s significantly up on the previous highest estimate of 650,000 deaths published by the Lancet last October. At the time, the Iraqi government described +that+ figure as ‘ridiculously high’. The independent Iraqi [sic] Body Count group puts the current total at closer to 75,000.” (Newsnight, September 14, 2007)
Esler’s contribution ended after 34 seconds at 29:27:
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2007/519-the-media-ignore-credible-poll-revealing-12-million-violent-deaths-in-iraq.html
Peter Oborne commented in the Daily Mail on the news that Aaronovitch had been chosen to interview Blair:
“This is troubling, for over the past ten years Aaronovitch has never… ceased to extend a helping hand to Tony Blair… Whatever his merits as a journalist, Aaronovitch cannot be regarded as an independent figure who could be trusted to interrogate a former prime minister on behalf of the British public.” (Oborne, ‘Forget the Queen fiasco, it’s the BBC’s love affair with the Blairs that’s so disquieting,’ Daily Mail, July 14, 2007)
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2008/529-david-aaronovitch-a-different-kind-of-compassion.html
You may want to read this:http://www.amazon.com/Visas-Al-Qaeda-Handouts-Insiders/dp/0990926206
Visas for Al Qaeda: CIA Handouts That Rocked the World: An Insider’s View
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrLcbBTsYCo
J. Michael Springmann:Visas for Al Qaeda / Andrew Kreig : Presidential Puppetry
https://www.corbettreport.com/interview-1019-michael-springmann-on-visas-for-terrorists/
Interview 1019 – Michael Springmann on Visas for Terrorists
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq
Now the truth emerges: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/01/trial-swedish-man-accused-terrorism-offences-collapse-bherlin-gildo
Terror trial collapses after fears of deep embarrassment to security services
“For years, violent Islamist groups were allowed to settle in Britain, using the country as a base to carry out attacks abroad. This was tolerated in the belief that they would not bomb the country where they lived and that, as long as they are here, the security service would be able to infiltrate them. At the same time mosque after mosque was taken over through intimidation by the fundamentalists. Police and others in authority refused pleas from moderate Muslims with the excuse that they did not want to interfere.
There was even a name for this amoral accommodation: the “covenant of security”. ”
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/reviews/secret-affairs-by-mark-curtis-2038691.html
Secret Affairs, By Mark Curtis
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2008/2008_10-19/2008_10-19/2008-15/pdf/08-13_3515.pdf
The Uighurs: Britain’s Double-Edged Razor To Cut Up China and Beyond
http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2013/eirv40n18-20130503/13-16_4018.pdf
Put Britain on the List Of Terrorist Sponsors
Anon1 and ResDis took an almighty slapdown from Craig….way to go.
The two wannabe spies,haven’t got a scooby doo.
None killed in 50 years? When the spy Hanson in America released the names of “sources” in Russia dozens were summarily executed. Putin has no qualms about murdering enemies in other countries, like England, or even openly in public on the streets of Moscow. And that’s just Russia. How about China or anywhere in the middle east.
Snowy didn’t exactly leave a copy of what he took MI6 will never know what he took, so wouldn’t the have to “play safe”?
Try again. This makes more sense in the context that Craig and Villager were already discussing my deletions before I responded. Craig have Villagers comments sat there until I responded. Their comments have subsequently been deleted since Craig has suddenly decided that off topic comments are no longer acceptable here (although other off topic comments survive). Hilarious hypocrisy. Anyway here is my original response:
*************************************************************
Craig
“End of story.”
Well I wasn’t going to comment further on this but I can’t let this go.
“I deleted some gratuitously offensive and personal comments from Phil.”
Well now they are deleted most people can only take your word for that. My attacks on you are inevitably personal. Your notion that the personal has nothing to do with the political are ridiculous.
It’s all very well constantly banging on about foreign policy, pontificating big heap white man style about how the Greeks, the Iranians should behave, but sooner or later we have to look at ourselves. At the prcoesses we indulge that repeatedly turn well meaning liberals into war mongers. For me you typify this process. That is why I will continue to make you the subject whilst you run for political office.
You also forgot to mention your absurd accusations about me. Calling me a liar pretending to be someone I am not. Of course the mere fact that this was simply discredited is possibly why you keep stum. It is almost certainly why you deleted the comments. And now you misrepresent the evidence you deleted. Just like every other politician. This is part of the process that turns well meaning liberals into war mongers.
I cannot resist to add that your track record of succumbing to the war monger agenda should doubly concern potential voters.
“That seems to have resulted in his IP address being blocked”
Ah so suddenly the problem is understood. Well I am fairly technical competent and I can tell you it was not a simple matter of either IP blocking or the spam filter mistrusting my email address. Although both of these happened. This gets a little technical. In the exchange between my pc and your web server which loads the web site page everything went fine until it read my user cookies which then provoked a 404 error code from the server. This means your server rejected my connection at the point that it identified me. I have the header logs which show this.
So in fact we have at least two, probably 3 seperate technical mistakes that all occurred at once. Immediately after a row. On Squonk last night I said I was happy to accept this was an unfortunate mistake. But you can’t resist expressing certainty about things you have very little understanding of. Another worrying part of the process that turns well meaning liberals into war mongers.
Politicans don’t suddenly overnight become complicit in the war monger agenda. It’s a gradual process of learning to live with compromising your principles.
Yes I believe in open debate it’s just that right now it is not appropriate.
There’s a well meaning liberal learning to be a bullshitting politician.
“Incidentally just spotted another completely wrong use of terminology in the article. Instead of withdrawn or in extremis extracted, it talks of MI6 officers or agents being “lifted”.”
The bits of the ST article I could read said “moved” or “pulled” – but that is by the by given that the 10 Downing St informant is probably a press officer rather than a spook so might be expected to use common terminology rather than that employed by MI6.
Ha, you’re manually deleting my comments on your own aren’t you.
It’s going to be a long haul. I can write a script which will repost my comment every few minutes. Hell I can probably do it in a way none of your two bit ip blocking, cookie rejecting, email filtering techniques can prevent.
I may or may not bother to do that. Probably not because it’s not my style but it can be done. Just letting you know that I’m not dropping this. You can only ban me. Which I will honour.
More importantly, how does it feel to be traveling further down the road of political hypocrisy?
Then there’s the convenient story of American govt employees having personnel files stolen, story released about 24 hrs after the Patriot Act got filibustered.
Not subtle, not true.
FFS Phil give it a rest,we all know Craig has done and knows shitty things about the UK.
Banging your drum about Craigs hypocrisy is becoming boring as f*ck.
What do you think Phil time to ditch the ad hominem BS…eh?
“Anon1 and ResDis took an almighty slapdown from Craig….way to go.”
Indeed. But if you are somehow under the impression that their obtuseness bordering on trolling will recede, think again. Both their comments are akin to conspiracy theorists of the fantastical “man never landed on the moon and I can prove it” variety. I expect to be entertained by their ramblings for at least another hour.
RoS
What I am discussing has very real implications about what happens now. About the inevitable hypocrisy of our wannabe leaders. About the processes which shape our society now.
“Indeed. But if you are somehow under the impression that their obtuseness bordering on trolling will recede, think again. Both their comments are akin to conspiracy theorists of the fantastical “man never landed on the moon and I can prove it” variety. I expect to be entertained by their ramblings for at least another hour.”
____________________________________
Yes Daniel at least an hour of watching these two write their cheques to Dumbville.
As they try and out do each other,about who knows more about MI5/MI6 them or Craig…l love this shit it’s entertaining.
RoS
“Yes Daniel at least an hour of watching these two write their cheques to Dumbville.”
That you accuse me of being boring is beyond irony.
“What I am discussing has very real implications about what happens now. About the inevitable hypocrisy of our wannabe leaders. About the processes which shape our society now.”
_________________________________
Phil.
You’re a clever guy you know as well as I do that nothing significant will change,the majority of those leaders are or will be corrupted at some point.
The closer they get to the front bench the more corrupt they will become.
Real change requires real passion such as in a revolution,are you ready for that? most people aren’t they don’t want to upset their cosy wee lives.
Excellent dissection of this poorly constructed propaganda, Craig. One key factual error that was missed is that Snowden stated very clearly that he had no files in his possession when he left HK, all his data was turned over to Greenwald and possibly other reporters so there was nothing for the Russians to steal or decrypt.
Dave Lawton 1.29pm
Craig the Russians and the Americans and to some extent the British intelligent services
experimented with psychics in through the 1960`s and 1970`s with mixed results.
****
Dave,the CIA knew you were going to post that yesterday ;-p
just came to my email list with some trending twatter feeds.
WikiLeaks
@wikileaks
Five reasons why the MI6 #Snowden story is a lie craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/… More: firstlook.org/theintercept/2…
View on Twitter
Anon 1 said earlier: “The Russians and Chinese are able to do lots of things but they aren’t anywhere near the capabilities of Western intelligence agencies. That is a point of fact.” That is an assertion for which no supporting evidence – factual or analytical – was offered. I suggest that Russia and China are both considerably more totalitarian than the UK or USA, which gives their secret intelligence services considerable advantages. They are more able to force people to work for them, however unwillingly; and they have easier access to secure funding and national laws and regulations to help them operate under fewer constraints than do their UK and USA counterparts. Add to that their greater ability than their Western counterparts to recruit and train the most gifted cryptographers, linguists and mathematicians in their countries – with less competition from other potential employers like Google, Microsoft, banks and energy multinationals- and I think you can see why for our own agencies the snooper’s charter is seen simply as a way of evening up the playing field. The disadvantage is that it also moves us further along the totalitarian spectrum. Being guided by the “rule of law” has a different meaning depending on the nature of the lawmaking authority. If we elect legislators who are unwilling to defend our freedoms, we have ourselves to blame for our own freedoms being curtailed.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/uk-intelligence-agencies-should-keep-mass-surveillance-powers-report-gchq
I question teh timing. What a coinky-dinky. I want to see evidence China/Russia decrypted, but that’s classified. 🙂
Im sick to the back teeth of spook-lackey fuckwits like Littlejohn and Coughlin spreading misery,fear and lies and their self-declared wars from the safety of their swanky offices and obscene expense accouhts.
Dirty rotten spineless toady bastards.
“That you accuse me of being boring is beyond irony.”
_______________________
Phil don’t take this the wrong way but,it does make a change from reading your constant attacks on Craig.
Not that I’m defending him,Craig must’ve seen and covered up some nasty shit in his day.
But to constantly bleat on about him day after day thread after thread……well its become tedious as f*ck Phil.
I suppose I’m just saying what other posters are thinking,but don’t have balls to say.
As for my own comments yip feel free to rip them apart,I have no ego to serve,I comment as I see it like it or not,and if the mods or Craig delete them….well I couldn’t give a monkeys.
Two threads on Medialens on this subject.
The Sunday Times’ Snowden Story is Journalism at its Worst – and Filled with Falsehoods
Posted by The Editors on June 14, 2015
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1434286333.html
BBC News ‘impartiality’ on Edward Snowden
Posted by The Editors on June 14, 2015
British spies ‘moved after Snowden files read’
This short para tells you pretty much all you need to know about the BBC’s impartial reporting of this:
‘Intelligence officials have long warned of what they see as the dangers of the information leaked by Mr Snowden and its potential impact on keeping people in the UK safe – a concern Prime Minister David Cameron has said he shares.’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33125068
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1434263611.html
A good starting point is to immediately dismiss anything you see on the MSM regarding intelligence matters as Grade A horseshit.
RoS
“Craig must’ve seen and covered up some nasty shit in his day.”
Craig’s history was one passing sentence of my comment. The thrust of it is about now. You ignore this and simply divert away.
“I’m just saying what other posters are thinking,but don’t have balls to say.”
Ah, so you have psychic powers as well as exceptional bravery.
“As for my own comments yip feel free to rip them apart”
Too friggin funny. No, you carry on mate.
@Nevermind
Ha Ha Very good
“And when cyber induced power cuts hit GCHQ, their diesel generators spring into life, the abacus has already calculated the next ten steps, without power.”
I remember the time in Cheltenham when water main repair crew cut threw a bunch of optical cables and complete panic broke out within minutes a police cordon was placed around the area.
I wish I could get that response when my internet connection goes down.
Craig’s excellent post, his subsequent comments here to those toeing the Murdoch line, and the link to Greenwald’s twitter feed helpfully provided by Michael Scally, all confirm the extremely fishy feeling first induced in me when the story broke this morning.