This is essentially a free speech forum. I enjoy much of the banter which goes on between commenters, particularly the dedicated band of people who post on a daily basis. There is an important distinction between my writing, and the comments section. The proportion of readers who leave comments is well under 1%. I cannot know what percentage of the readers read comments, but I suspect it is not terribly high.
In social media I find establishment hacks – particularly journalists and Labour Party functionaries – dismiss my thoughts by referring to the comments section. “Craig Murray – have you seen the tinfoil hats comments on his blog!” being a genuine and very typical example. Well, if people wish to damn me by association with the views of other people, that is sadly an example of the low intellectual standards of the British nomenklatura of our time. The only views on here which are mine are those which I write.
I cherish the diversity of the comment threads and am fond of our little community, most of whom I have never met. I do not value people by the standard of how close their views are to my own. I am sometimes saddened by the personal animosities which arise between people.
We state some rules from time to time. This is the current set, which I just made up:
No racism. Any comment which is racist will simple be deleted immediately. The biggest problem we face is anti-Jewish comment, which I will not tolerate. We are not in the business of stigmatising anti-Zionism as anti-Jewish, but there are quite frequently distinctly anti-Jewish comments. I deleted one just an hour ago.
Similarly, no holocaust denial. I do not believe it should be illegal (I am against thought crime) but I do not wish to have it on my blog as those associated with it often have very unpleasant sympathies. That is not to say the subject of the holocaust can never be mentioned – it will never be possible to ascertain the precise number who were killed, and it is important we remember not only the Jews but the Poles, gypsies, gays, freemasons and numerous others who suffered. But the basic facts are not in doubt. It is surprising how often people attempt to insinuate holocaust denial.
Sockpuppetry. It is in practice impossible to outlaw sockpuppetry without a formal registration system, which I do not want. But the adoption of multiple identities within the same thread is not to be allowed, nor the creation of identities of which the purpose is to ridicule, attack or insult another contributor.
Fair Play. Play the ball, not the man. Address arguments, not people. Do not impugn the motives of others, including me. No taunting.
Relevance
Attempts to keep people on topic are hopeless, but do try.
9/11
We don’t discuss 9/11. There are plenty of places on the web where you can do that. It tends to take over threads.
Contribute
Contributions which are primarily just a link to somewhere else will be deleted. You can post links, but give us the benefit of your thoughts upon them.
No explanation.
Enforcing these rules is necessarily arbitrary and needs judgement calls. Moderators are precluded from explaining decisions online. If you want to complain use the contact button.
Moderators
We have, and have had, excellent moderators over many years. But almost all have found it not only time consuming but also surprisingly emotionally draining. If you are interested in volunteering and are willing for me to know both your real and online identity, please get in tough using the contact button.
“Is Andy Burnham a labour friend of Israel?”
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Nevermind.
Andy Burnham’s name appears here,as does former MI6 officer Margaret “Meta” Ramsay,and many other prominent politicians.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Labour_Friends_of_Israel
“I, for example, – if I were moderating – would be inclined to delete posts which talk about MP X, let’s say in connection with the theme of the NHS, and then go on to remind us that he is a member of the Friends of Israel.”
Even if MP X used outsourced NHS funds to help fund Matthew Gould’s “business trips” to Israel?
“It seems to be the rules banning Jew-hatred and Holocaust denial that are causing the most objection.”
Please substantiate that.
Craig: just to note that I am a post AND comment reader. I don’t comment myself as I already comment on several other places and just don’t have time to get into to-and-fro in an extra place. But I find the comments equally as pleasurable to read as the blog – including the various spats! And I suspect that I am far from alone in that.
Uzbek in the UK
17 Jun, 2015 – 1:15 pm
“I think comments like this “Since Kiev Nazis” should also be unacceptable when addressed to the president, government and people who are fighting against illegal occupation and VERY questionable annexation of their sovereign territory.”
………………………………………………………………..
How about calling Putin a Nazi Uzbek?
Would that be acceptable to you?
Thanks RoS, thats the leadership election decided then. A dejected Jeremy Corbin, buoyed up by public support, will hopefully want to leave a mark on this new Labour right wing continuity played out in front of his eyes.
I hope this homeless MP jumps and joins the Green Party, presenting the House with a fully fledged new group, apparently it takes two to Tango.
But with it would come a whole raft of new options, access and information.
His sidestep would create a massive swing as the last few principled activists and principled socialists left would see his departure as a hint with a fencepost, right behind the ears, many would follow him, cementing new Labour’s complacency, marking them as the red Tories forever.
Daniel (to Anon1)
““It seems to be the rules banning Jew-hatred and Holocaust denial that are causing the most objection.”
Please substantiate that.”
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Just look through the 150-odd posts on here and you’ll find your proof.
BTW – please don’t pull that cuntish trick of telling us you’re Jewish. Firstly, how do we know you’re not just saying that and secondly so what even if you are (“some of my best friends are black” refers).
Be careful, Herbie. Sometimes swelled heads burst.
You tried to slam me over DSK, too. Called me all sorts of things. But oddly enough, Dominique Strauss-Kahn settled the sexual assault case with Nafissatou Diallo for $1.4 million. I understand he had to get half the money from his wife – who then left him.
They say pride comes before a fall. 🙂
The “proof” is in your imagination. And no I don’t pretend to be Jewish. Read and take on board what Craig advised. That’s my advise to you.
By the way, Herbie
I wouldn’t waste energy on “hating” someone who only appears as a name in a comment section – someone I have never met and know nothing about. My energy is far too precious for that.
“some of my best friends are black”
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Habb.
You have friends! when did this happen?
G’night – Netflix calls.
Craig
You have laid down the moderation guidelines, as it is your right to do.
There are plenty of other websites for the convenience of those who want to speculate about 9/11 or the reality of the Holocaust or who want to obsess about the Jews (they control everything, doncha know).
Unsurprisingly, a number of the regular commenters are grizzling.
Ignore them, close off this thread for comments forthwith (you have given people ample time to react) and please let us now have a new thread as soon as possible(suggestion: Jeremy Corbin and the Labour leadership in general).
Craig knows the score and has sussed you out sonny.
Daniel
“The “proof” is in your imagination.”
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No, Daniel, the proof is in the 150-odd comments on this thread. The majority of the comments and complaints about the moderation guidelines are about those on rascism/Jew-hating and Holocaust denial.
Can’t you read?
You are such a fuckwit…LOL
“Jeremy Corbin and the Labour leadership in general).”
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Habb.
Oh someone sounds beaten, Daniel appears to have outwitted you.
Oh and it’s Corbyn not Corbin,Daniels definitely outclassed you old chap.
Retire gracefully old boy.
When it comes to “Friends of Israel” I sometimes wonder if some people sign up to that because they think it’s the “done thing” (and they might get a free trip to Israel out of it.) That it’s just a box they tick, like joining the ‘right’ golf club. Or, whether they would actually refuse to put their names to anything that might even suggest giving a leg-up to the Palestinian people. In other words, I don’t know how important it is in practical terms that they’re on that list.
The names Poju Zabludowicz, Mick Davis, Stanley Kalms, Gerald Ronson, Michael Heller and Stuart Polak* come inexplicably to mind. They have something in common quite apart from being Tory donors. And the question, why does one join the’right’ golf club, anyway? Could it be to meet the ‘right’ people? And maybe advance one’s chances? Perish the thought. It’s the pure love of the game.
Meanwhile, at Conservative Friends of Greece, er, is there one? Google doesn’t think so…
Note to self: stop being sarcastic. Someone’s bound to take it literally.
* Who he?
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/insight/article1153462.ece
If I published a cartoon of that face I’d have the Community Trust (chair Gerald Ronson) all over me like measles…
I read regularly but rarely comment, as by the time I tune in from my time zone, the discussion has usually been hijacked by the usual suspects. I’m all for free expression of opinion, but I’d like to think that relevance is a necessary element to the exploration of a topic.
What would really be nice is to have an ‘ignore’ button or list so that a dedicated reader could mitigate the effects of those commenters who hijack the comments section day in and day out.
There is no economic benefit from destroying a succession of Muslim countries. It does however serve the racial and ethnic hatred if the currently pre=eminent Zionist lobby in Washington and London. Please don’t clamp down on the right to accuse Zionism of deep Islmophobia. in this context of war and utter destruction who cares about the feelings of Zionist supporters? Like the issue of child abuse there is only one response to Zionist racist/religious hatred against Muslim populations = total condemnation in the strongest possible terms. i will continue to ignore any PC rules which obstruct condemnation of racial/religious persecution of Muslim peoples. Habbabkuk take note of Craigs dislike of this shilling of yours.
Craig 2:02 pm
As you, quite wisely, seldom comment beyond page 2, you may not be aware of the poorly concealed insinuations about a given person’s Jewishness that usually appear thereafter. For example, it may be said that “[Such-and-such], who is Jewish, is implicated in [this or that evil]”.
Jewish-sounding names are, of course, a regular target. Ocasionally Jewish genealogy may be brought into play, meaning that someone is to be condemned merely for having Jewish ancestors. On one or two occasions, we have even seen the Jewish spouse introduced, eg, “[Such-and-such], whose wife is Jewish”. And Jewish maiden names are sometimes referred to, apparently as a sort of exposure.
All this is cowardly, racist talk from those who haven’t the guts to openly state what they believe. And it will continue, despite your rules. Therefore I would suggest a moderation policy that excludes these grubby little insinuations, and instead allows frank and forthright anti-Semitism, along with it’s ugly sister, Holocaust denial. Banning it won’t make it go away. The only way to combat Jew-hatred on this forum is to allow it to be seen to be torn to shreds in full view.
Daniel
“Craig knows the score and has sussed you out sonny.”
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If you look carefully, Danny boy, you’ll see exactly who Craig has sussed out.
It is the people whose peculiar thoughts and posts impelled him to write as follows:
“The biggest problem we face is anti-Jewish comment, which I will not tolerate. We are not in the business of stigmatising anti-Zionism as anti-Jewish, but there are quite frequently distinctly anti-Jewish comments. I deleted one just an hour ago.”
and
“..no holocaust denial. I do not believe it should be illegal (I am against thought crime) but I do not wish to have it on my blog as those associated with it often have very unpleasant sympathies.”
and (in reply to you):
“The clear point is that objecting to somebody’s politics is fine, objecting to their ethnicity is not. It is a very simple distinction which both you and Monteverdi (assuming you are two people) seem to wish to obfuscate. If you are an anti-Jewish racist you are not welcome on this blog.”
and, again to you (begging the question of whether you are malevolent or just stupid):
“If your intention was to say that you oppose Zionists, including Jews who are Zionists, but you have nothing against jewish people who are not Zionists, then you were very far indeed from getting that across.”
So, Daniel – who’s been sussed out?
Are the following two contributions I posted, among the other 150 odd examples, illustrations of what you are referring to, Habbabkuk?
@11.54:
“Habbabkuk, I’m not remotely upset. I agree with the rules set. I suggest you focus your mind reading elsewhere.”
@5.50:
“I’m of the view that all forms of holocaust revisionism/denial are not an appropriate form of discussion/debate for a blog like this or any other blog or forum for that matter.
I cannot see the point of arguing over matters of detail in terms of the evaluation of precise numbers, etc, when the substantive issue among those who are motivated by antisemitism, is to fundamentally question the validity of historical narrative per se.
I respect Craig’s motives and reasoning for censoring Holocaust revisionist discussion. But nevertheless, like other posters’, I don’t quite understand the selective approach taken.
To expand upon the question of motives, some people argue, conversely, that there are motives among those whose interests are, it is claimed, to perpetuate the primacy of Jewish suffering as a means of exploiting the Nazi Holocaust for political and financial gain, as well as to further the interests of Israel:
http://normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=3&ar=11
According to Finkelstein, this “Holocaust industry” has corrupted Jewish culture and the authentic memory of the Holocaust.”
Anon1
“Therefore I would suggest a moderation policy that excludes these grubby little insinuations, and instead allows frank and forthright anti-Semitism, along with it’s ugly sister, Holocaust denial. Banning it won’t make it go away. The only way to combat Jew-hatred on this forum is to allow it to be seen to be torn to shreds in full view.”
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Good post in general but I don’t agree with the above bit.
Tearing Jew-hatred to shreds will not be possible on here – just look at the example of John Goss, who continues to trumpet his love of rasPutin and hatred for the US and West in the face of all reasoned criticism and counter-proof.
No – the way to counter the grubby little insinuations (you detail them well) is to crack down on them mercilessly. Their originators will soon get tired of playing that game and will either clean uo their act (because they long for their droppings to appear on this blog) or move to a more sympathetic blog (in which case no great loss).
I meant John Goss in relation to Ukraine in particular.
Daniel
Craig has spoken.
Live with it – or leave.
A simple choice and your choice.
End.
“No – the way to counter the grubby little insinuations (you detail them well) is to crack down on them mercilessly. Their originators will soon get tired of playing that game and will either clean uo their act (because they long for their droppings to appear on this blog) or move to a more sympathetic blog (in which case no great loss).”
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Like I said Habb it would be preposterous of Craig to make you a moderator,you’d cull more posters,than Bloody Mary did Protestants.
I am living with it and have proved to you I have. Any more straw men? On second thoughts just fuck off, moron.
RodG. “the Rebellious Scots”
lol. Sorry but it’s just so funny, this idea that a bunch of Scottish suit wearing mp’s, fully integrated into the anti-democraic process that parliament is, is somehow rebellious.
Do Scottish MP’s swear an oath of allegiance to the monarch also?
http://veteransforpeace.org.uk/2015/waterloo-and-peterloo-by-aly-renwick/
Daniel, clearly your particular angle of anti-Semitism (or that which you feel is acceptable enough to write down on a public forum (God knows what you must really have in your mind)), is that the Jews exaggerate the Holocaust for their own gain. Aside from the point you are obviously trying to make about Jews being deceitful and willing to sink to any depths to further their own interests (classic anti-Semitism), paradoxically you also appear to believe that 6 million was not enough.