This is essentially a free speech forum. I enjoy much of the banter which goes on between commenters, particularly the dedicated band of people who post on a daily basis. There is an important distinction between my writing, and the comments section. The proportion of readers who leave comments is well under 1%. I cannot know what percentage of the readers read comments, but I suspect it is not terribly high.
In social media I find establishment hacks – particularly journalists and Labour Party functionaries – dismiss my thoughts by referring to the comments section. “Craig Murray – have you seen the tinfoil hats comments on his blog!” being a genuine and very typical example. Well, if people wish to damn me by association with the views of other people, that is sadly an example of the low intellectual standards of the British nomenklatura of our time. The only views on here which are mine are those which I write.
I cherish the diversity of the comment threads and am fond of our little community, most of whom I have never met. I do not value people by the standard of how close their views are to my own. I am sometimes saddened by the personal animosities which arise between people.
We state some rules from time to time. This is the current set, which I just made up:
No racism. Any comment which is racist will simple be deleted immediately. The biggest problem we face is anti-Jewish comment, which I will not tolerate. We are not in the business of stigmatising anti-Zionism as anti-Jewish, but there are quite frequently distinctly anti-Jewish comments. I deleted one just an hour ago.
Similarly, no holocaust denial. I do not believe it should be illegal (I am against thought crime) but I do not wish to have it on my blog as those associated with it often have very unpleasant sympathies. That is not to say the subject of the holocaust can never be mentioned – it will never be possible to ascertain the precise number who were killed, and it is important we remember not only the Jews but the Poles, gypsies, gays, freemasons and numerous others who suffered. But the basic facts are not in doubt. It is surprising how often people attempt to insinuate holocaust denial.
Sockpuppetry. It is in practice impossible to outlaw sockpuppetry without a formal registration system, which I do not want. But the adoption of multiple identities within the same thread is not to be allowed, nor the creation of identities of which the purpose is to ridicule, attack or insult another contributor.
Fair Play. Play the ball, not the man. Address arguments, not people. Do not impugn the motives of others, including me. No taunting.
Relevance
Attempts to keep people on topic are hopeless, but do try.
9/11
We don’t discuss 9/11. There are plenty of places on the web where you can do that. It tends to take over threads.
Contribute
Contributions which are primarily just a link to somewhere else will be deleted. You can post links, but give us the benefit of your thoughts upon them.
No explanation.
Enforcing these rules is necessarily arbitrary and needs judgement calls. Moderators are precluded from explaining decisions online. If you want to complain use the contact button.
Moderators
We have, and have had, excellent moderators over many years. But almost all have found it not only time consuming but also surprisingly emotionally draining. If you are interested in volunteering and are willing for me to know both your real and online identity, please get in tough using the contact button.
I see from your post above at 8.57am, Mary, that the discussion yesterday went completely over your head.
Not surprised.
and worthy of the Nazis
Netanyahu aims to shut new ‘Palestine 48′ TV station
As communications minister, PM calls on staffers to investigate legality of Arab-language channel in Israel funded by PA
June 18, 2015
The press conference announcing the launch of a new Arab-speaking station, Palestine 48, in Nazareth on Wednesday, June 17 2015. (Screen capture: Ynet)
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday instructed the head of the Communication Ministry to work on shutting a new Palestinian Authority-funded TV channel based in Israel, which is set to go on air on Thursday, Ynet reported.
/..
http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-aims-to-shut-new-palestine-48-tv-station/
There could have been a little winky emoticon after that last comment but I think I’m getting allergic to them.
“Which must mean that for you, anti-Jew talk and Holocaust denial are “the dissemination of truth” – and therefore, “truth”?
I suggest you keep your cuntish little opinions (for want of a better word) to your own blog.”
Couldn’t agree more – why it is usually a case that those professing “truth” or to be searching out “truth” are usually the biggest liars of the lot?
it is like a shooting barb, spiked with hatred and utter contempt, Mary, never ending unless those who inhabit this UN present start thinking about others in their close vicinity and cut it off. They must realise that statehood is not determined by waging war with your neighbours, genocide or ethnic cleansing and that such violence begets more violence in perpetuation.
Now Netanyahu’s foot folk is engaged in the same tactics Pakistan is using to cleanse Baluchistan, Hitler/Stalin have used in Eastern Europe and the Boers used in South Africa.
“Fed Up,
You are right to say that attacks on Muslims are under reported. On the other hand, exaggerated claims of antisemitic attacks on Jews within the UK are over reported:”
Thank you, fed up, for your support.
But there seems to be another mix up here.
In fact, very few Jews are Semitic but almost all Arabs are Semitic.
So a racist comment that is anti Semitic would be more of an attack on Arabs than it would be on Jews.
Many Muslims are Arabs of course, but similarly not all Muslims are either Arabs or Semites.
I doubt if anyone would say that an anti Muslim post was anti Semitic, and therefore racist.
Its odd how people have been brainwashed into thinking anti Jewish and anti Semitic are the same thing, and that therefore anti Jewish comments are racist – they clearly are not.
As I wrote before, but repeat to save people from scrolling up this long thread, Judaism is not a race, it is a religion.
Anyone saying otherwise is either misinformed or lying.
What if an atheist who is anti all religion, Richard Dawkins for example, were to post that he finds all religion irrational anti social, and mostly disgusting?
Could you somehow read into that that he is racist?
Every religious person has some genetic background after all.
If there is an anti Roman Catholic comment is that racist.
Is an anti Buddhist comment racist?
See this article and reference
“Ethnicity and race
Further information: Archaeogenetics of the Near East, Caucasian race, Hamitic race and Scientific racism
This T and O map, from the first printed version of Isidoor’s Etymologiae, identifies the three known continents as populated by descendants of Sem (Shem), Iafeth (Japheth) and Cham (Ham).
In historical race classifications, the Semitic peoples are considered to be of Caucasoid type, not dissimilar in appearance to the neighbouring Indo-European, Northwest Caucasian, Berber and Kartvelian-speaking peoples of the region.[34]
Some recent genetic studies have found (by analysis of the DNA of Semitic-speaking peoples) that they have some common ancestry. Though no significant common mitochondrial results have been found, Y-chromosomal links between modern Semitic-speaking Near-Eastern peoples like Arabs, Hebrews, Mandaeans, Syriacs-Arameans, Samaritans and Assyrians have proved fruitful, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron).
Semitic-speaking Near Easterners such as Jews, Assyrians, Arabs, Maronites, Mandaeans, Druze, Samaritans, and Mhallami, from the Fertile Crescent (Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, the Sinai peninsula and the Palestinian Territories), were found to be far more closely related to both each other (and indeed the later arriving non-Semitic-speaking Near Easterners, such as Iranians, Anatolians, and Caucasians) than to the Semitic-speakers of the Arabian peninsula, Ethiopian Semites (Amharic and Tigrean speakers), and the Arabic speakers of North Africa.[35][36]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people#Ethnicity_and_race
Mary (08h57)
Didn’t Craig’s moderation guidelines say something about not just posting links without any personal imput and thought?
IMHO your “I am sure that before the day is out, I will find a pithy piece on NHS privatisation and dismantling.
Palestine is the crux of humanity. The NHS, as it exists, is too valuable for ALL of us to lose.”
does not qualify as personal impout and thought.
I’m sure you’d agree with me on this one and endeavour, in future, to conform to Craig’s guidelines.
Macky,
I assume that Craig feels that nothing worthwhile can be achieved intellectually by allowing Nazi Holocaust revisionist views on his blog. If that is indeed the case – which I suspect it is – I for one wholeheartedly agree with him. Ultimately, I respect his rationale. It’s his blog, not yours or mine and he is free to set the rules as he sees fit.
“Palestine is the crux of humanity. The NHS, as it exists, is too valuable for ALL of us to lose.”
That IS my ‘personal inpout (sic) and thought’.
Daniel
Do you really think that the more often you repeat a statement the more likely it is that people will be convinced by it?
There is no way that you can justify a bluntly false statement like this
… ‘this is essentially a free speech forum’
when Craig goes on to exclude certain topics from discussion!
I agree with Macky about the removal of threads from this web site. It smacks of something very odd indeed especially alongside his tolerance of the pests and nutcases that slither about this blog essentially to cause annoyance and drive away people like Truth Hurts. Doublespeak like this is just NOT justifiable.
Mary
““Palestine is the crux of humanity. The NHS, as it exists, is too valuable for ALL of us to lose.”
That IS my ‘personal inpout (sic) and thought’.”
__________________
Any fool could come up with a couple of Christmas cracker type sayings like that. Not very profound, are they.
You are trying to circumvent Craig’s guidelines by simply adding a line or two of banalities to your usual cut-and-pastes.
Daniel; “I for one wholeheartedly agree with him”
You side-step the real points I was making to fall back just on the Holocaust revisionist angle; make me wonder why do you bothered qouting Finkelstien, who points out the Holocaust is delibrately exploited & used as an “ideological weapon”, and part & process of this is for it to considered too sacrosanct to be examined or discussed.
I for one, one wholeheartedly agree with preeminent Holocaust scholar Raul Hilberg, who when responding to arguments that such frank discussion about the Holocaust will play into the hands of neo-Nazis for antisemitic purposes, replied: “Well, even if they do use it in that fashion, I’m afraid that when it comes to the truth, it has to be said openly, without regard to any consequences that would be undesirable, embarrassing.”
Johnstone
“There is no way that you can justify a bluntly false statement like this
… ‘this is essentially a free speech forum’
when Craig goes on to exclude certain topics from discussion!”
_________________
The clue might be in the word “essentially”, you fool.
Now, you are either a doughty defender of principle (free speech, in this case) or a cunt. I suspect the latter.
**************************
Habbabkuk says : Jew-haters and Holocaust deniers noit wanted on here.
(of course meant after my previous comment, not Mary’s)
Macky
“Daniel; “I for one wholeheartedly agree with him”
You side-step the real points I was making to fall back just on the Holocaust revisionist angle; make me wonder why do you bothered qouting Finkelstien, who points out the Holocaust is delibrately exploited & used as an “ideological weapon”, and part & process of this is for it to considered too sacrosanct to be examined or discussed.”
__________________
Your offering at 12h51 is a good example of why you should stick to insults and slagging off Craig personally rather than trying to discuss topics in a rational manner: you are simply not very good (I’m being polite) at the latter.
Let us assume for a moment that Finkelstein is right and that the Holocaust is being exploited.
Does that, in your view, mean that the Holocaust never happened?
Does that, in your view, justify Holocaust denial?
Does that, in your view, justify the quibbling about whether 6 or 5 or even “only” 4 million Jews were killed?
If the answer to the above is “no”, then what is the relevance of Finkelstein’s thesis to the fact of the Holocaust?
And to Craig’s unwillingness to see Holocaust denial on his blog?
The dystopian ooze here reflects a seriously worrying double standard whereby ‘fair play’ does not categorically forbid personal insults and if it is indeed intended to be a part of the meaning of ‘play the ball not the man (ooops and woman)’ then how come seriously offensive and foulmouthed personal insults are tolerated (and NOT DELETED) while polite and informative intellectual discussion of an historical issue is strictly forbidden?
@Half A Brain,
If you cannnot see the relevance of not allowing the pointing out of something that is being used as an ideological weapon, perhaps I should downgrade you to a Quarter Brain.
Now he’s goading Craig, to live up to what Habby’s interpretation of the rules of moderation should be like, you could not make it up.
9.05 am Ooh er Missus!
Advise reference to:
Fair Play. Play the ball, not the man. Address arguments, not people. Do not impugn the motives of others, including me. No taunting.
@Macky
Do you not understand the difference between a race and a religion? A religion is a system of belief and practice. In the UK religion is a CHOICE. Maybe not in some Muslim countries where “apostacy” is punishable by death, but thank God we got past that in this country several hundred years ago. Race by contrast is NOT a choice, and that is the reason why racism, as normally defined, is obnoxious to most people in this country.
By attempting to conflate race and religion you appear to be attempting to hijack people’s justified aversion to racism, in order to suppress discussion of beliefs and practices.
Mainstream Islam, so far as I’m aware, teaches that the profession of faith has to be made wholeheartedly and honestly, without which it means nothing. And without the profession of faith one is not a Muslim. ISIL, Boko Haram, AQ, etc may be content with forcing people to parrot the words at gunpoint, but they’re a small minority. Therefore, being a Muslim is a choice, not an inborn quality like black skin or blue eyes.
And BTW Macky, the rason why Craig refers to his time in Poland in context of his contempt for holocaust denial, is probably because Poland is where the holocaust mostly happened, where the biggest numbers of eye-witnesses and physical evidence can be found. There’s also the evidence of what can’t be found, ie the several million Polish Jews whose disappearance takes a lot of explaining if the holocaust didn’t happen.
@ Craig, I hope you’ve got better things to do than to be still reading this thread, but if you are, your rules seem very reasonable to me. You’re a rare example of a political thinker who actively engages with opposing views instead of hiding away in some like-minded clique, your personal disclosures reveal your humanity and honesty, your rude remarks about your NuLab opponents are highly amusing, and your historical knowledge gives a real depth to your ideas that is rarely found in modern politicians.
If the Jew-baiters don’t like your rules they can fuck off to any one of hundreds of other sites where they’ll be more comfortable in like-minded company.
@Pete, what was the purpose that your Post ? To explain to me the difference between Race & Religion, or the relevence of Poland iro the Holocaust, well sorry to disappoint, but I’m not as ignorant as you are foolish enough to assume.
As to your bizarre charge that I’m trying to suppress discussion of beliefs and practices, when I’m actually advocating the opposite, betrays what your real beef is, to be free to indulge in Islamophobia.
Such gushing words for Craig, makes me wonder if he’s breaking his own rules again, this time on Sockpuppetry ! 😀
Pete
Excellent post – you really demolished Macky (and by Jesus he doesn’t like it, does he!).
Fully agree also about the Jew-baiters needing to take themselves off elsewhere. That is the logic of a couple of Craig’s moderation rules.
Macky
You really got hot under the collar at Pete’s reply to you, didn’t you.
Perhaps because he did such a splendid job of explaining a few basics before proceeding to take you apart.
And all you can come up with by way of “reply” is
– I’m clever, you know – really!
– you’re Islamophobic
– you’re Craig’s sockpuppet.
How old were you when the oxygen ran out, Macky? 🙂
“9.05 am Ooh er Missus!”
________________
Leafy Surrey attempts Mockney (again)
The more cunning and savvy Jew-haters have seen which way the wind’s blowing on here and have beaten a hasty retreat, leaving poor, dumb Macky behind to take the flak on their behalf. And the funniest thing is that he doesn’t even realise he’s the appointed fall guy!
The only wind that’s blowing Habby Clown, is the one through your empty & deluded numb skull.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-israel-still-refuses-to-recognize-a-century-old-genocide/
@Lo Zuccone 5.54pm & @Pete 3.48pm
Terrible thing this genocide denial , I’m sure you’ll agree ?
Johnstone,
I don’t see how Craig declaring this a free speech forum and his selection of rules is in any way contradictory.
I just love the way in which the senior troll on here has become the founder member of the CM Blog Corrective. So funny.
Macky,
Neither my quoting of Finkelstein nor your quoting of Hilberg has no bearing whatsoever on Craig’s editorial decision-making on this blog in relation to his censoring of Nazi Holocaust revisionist posts.
Habbabkuk’s post at 1.29 is pretty much spot on.