So far as I can follow, the Greek electorate now have the choice between voting Yes and agreeing to the IMF austerity package, and voting No and having their leaders agree to any “face-saving” variation, however miniscule, before accepting the IMF austerity package. You can be quite sure that the international elite will thoroughly humiliate Syriza by making abundantly clear that if they offer any change at all, it is absolutely miniscule. A change of nominal leader of Greece may result from the referendum, but nothing that changes the life of anybody who is not a politician. Either way in six months time we will be exactly back where we are now, only with opposition to the IMF broken as the next wave of pillage of the public sector comes.
The Euro project will continue to be extremely strong. New money will be funnelled into the pockets of bankers. It is important to recall that 100% of these bailout funds go to bankers, none of it goes to the Greek people and none of it stays in Greece. The same bankers will become the beneficiaries of servicing of new loans provided to vast corporations to buy up Greek public assets, cheap.
It would require a particular heartlessness to be indifferent to the demise of the idealistic hopes that backed Syriza. But in the end it proved they did not offer any actual choice of any significantly different outcome. There is no real choice on Sunday, no difference in outcome from which way people vote. Beware Greeks bearing rifts.
I think 6.5 million is too high. I think it is 6 point something, but what?
Good grief, can no one do elementary math any longer. It’s just over 6.4 thousand, not million.
Lysias; “There’s an ancient Greek precedent for debt forgiveness: Solon’s Seisachtheia.”
Indeed; I didn’t realise that he did a bit of poetry also !;
πολλοὶ γὰρ πλουτεῦσι κακοί, ἀγαθοὶ δὲ πένονται:
ἀλλ’ ἡμεῖς αὐτοῖς οὐ διαμειψόμεθα
τῆς ἀρετῆς τὸν πλοῦτον: ἐπεὶ τὸ μὲν ἔμπεδον αἰεί,
χρήματα δ’ ἀνθρώπων ἄλλοτε ἄλλος ἔχει.
Some wicked men are rich, some good are poor;
We will not change our virtue for their store:
Virtue’s a thing that none can take away,
But money changes owners all the day.
Some experts. Firstly they designed a system which would only work if capitalism never had crises. Secondly, when a crisis hit, rather than back-pedalling on their flawed rules, they doubled up on them. Then, when the people had the temerity to elect a government which opposed their agenda… Well, it’s obvious, isn’t it? The people must be overthrown. forbes.com
Says it all!
Thrashing around to find a “rationale” and as ever predictably failing to do so, finding recourse to ad hominem. This is reflected in a manifest traits of the ill educated boobs; baseless assumption, wild assertions, that customarily ends in denunciations. Pointless to debate with someone with such obtuse and overtly aggressive.
=========
The overtly exaggerated and emotional response; “genocide” obviously a clear lack of comprehension of English, that is compounded with the use of tabloid stock phrases; “swamping”, “illegal Immigrants”, this indicating a racist carefully pouring bile and hatred in a measured and plausible manner.
Robert Crawford. one of then most difficult things you’ll find thesedays are actual figures for UK tax revenues; because if the truth was published it would make a mockery of all the ‘austerity’ rollocks.
It’s all ideological.
We are ruled by psychopaths.
Love them. A friend of mine was just asking why the potentially positive was being framed as a ‘No’; much as in the Scottish referendum.
“THE Greek people are ready to give their final yes or no vote on an unknown issue that will decide their entire future.
Sunday’s referendum, which asks “Would you like to not accept turning down saying yes to declining your assent to the agreement of the unified two-part proposal from the European Commission, ECB and IMF?” offers the Greek people a clear choice on something that will be decided later.”
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/greece-holds-decisive-referendum-on-christ-knows-what-2015070399871
@CanSpeccy, my quoting of that comment was just a gentle ribbing; I would like to examine your views, to determine if you are a Jemand race hate type, or just somebody with excessive paranoia, but I don’t think that this is the thread to do it on.
BTW I think you have got confused with the US billion as compared the UK billion, as the answer to Robert Crawford’s question is 6,416,666.67.
“The overtly exaggerated and emotional response; “genocide” obviously a clear lack of comprehension of English, that is compounded with the use of tabloid stock phrases; “swamping”, “illegal Immigrants”, this indicating a racist carefully pouring bile and hatred in a measured and plausible manner.”
Er yeah – although ‘measured’ and ‘plausible’ are wrong.
Although this is quite right:
“As for the ME refugees, it would be better to stop creating them than to ship them”
In memorial
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/london_blasts/victims/
Murdered by the Caesarea branch with guidance from Sayaret Metkal veteran Tamir Pardo.
https://vimeo.com/126298463
Mark Golding,
I don’t know about 7/7 ..but I don’t personally know anyone who knows any of the victims – and logically I should do..cos I personally know people who know some of the victims of 9/11.
I realise you probably won’t believe me..but the Evidence That The Boston and Woolwich Bombings were FAKED – is overwhelming…
It seems to me that The Terrorist Attack in Tunisia was Real..though I haven’t spoken to him about it yet…but he wouldn’t lie about something like that. He said he personally knew 2 of the victims..one who survived. He works For The UK Press. I hardly ever do politics or religion socially cos you just end up falling out with your friends who most of the time – are just there for the live music and to have a good time..no one gives a shit what your jobs are – your surnames or whatever your political views are – or whatever religion you may or not believe in…We are all here to have a Good Time…
However, though I have never met you Mark Golding so far as I know..I reckon you are a bit of a star..A man I can trust.
Tony
Go Syriza! Go Tsipras! Go Greeks!
The daily airing for Nick Robinson is to found on the Marr programme, where he is reviewing the papers along with a S Times person.
Gideon and Chris Leslie feature later.
Watch live 05/07/2015
The Andrew Marr Show
Andrew Marr is joined by key political personalities and cultural figures to discuss topical politics, current affairs and the arts. Guests include chancellor of the exchequer George Osborne, shadow chancellor Chris Leslie and actress Emily Watson. The newspapers are reviewed by Nick Robinson of the BBC and Sarah Baxter of the Sunday Times.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b061z54h
While all eyes are on Greece the Chinese government has had to step in to prevent a crash on the stock market.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jul/05/china-freezes-new-share-offers-in-bid-to-shore-up-plunging-stock-markets
“@CanSpeccy, my quoting of that comment was just a gentle ribbing; I would like to examine your views, to determine if you are a Jemand race hate type, or just somebody with excessive paranoia, but I don’t think that this is the thread to do it on.” Macky, 11:14pm, 4.7.15
Macky, I’ve enquired deeply into Alfred’s (Can Speccy’s) views in a sustained manner some years ago and – along with Technicolour, angrysoba and others – have had ferocious arguments with him on the subject. You’re right, it’s not the right thread to pursue these – though with Alfred eventually almost eveything seems to turn to these specific core beliefs.
His contributions appear to follow a defined pattern. He clearly is highly intelligent and iterates much that seems to me sensible and rational (and I’m not just saying that because I happen to agree with it; I don’t always), only inevitably by one or other narrative track, to dive into what appears to be his central obsession, namely, ‘race’ theory and all that emanates from it.
By his own public account on this blog, he is a retired biologist, an English immigrant into Canada, someone who left the UK many years ago, a “settler” who really does not like immigrants who have come to the UK, whom he terms, “settlers”. And he often uses the term, “genocide” in this context. It is the classic ironic absurdity. And predictably, Alfred appears to be yet another ex-Leftist. And so, extrapolating, in the post-Cold War period in (especially eastern) Europe, we see the battle preferred by those in power to be almost exclusively between transnational capitalism and (basically) Far Right national socialism. I do hope that xenophobic neo-fascists who also tow the Wall Street line do not come (again) to rule Greece. But it is a real possibility.
Update from friend of friend in Greece:
“Heading out to local polling stations. Bright, sunny and a pleasant temperature in Athens this morning. Our side is a movement of hope. The better people feel in the face of the all consuming crisis of the last five years the greater their propensity to defy their tormentors.”
It gets even worse on the BBC. Following Robinson and Osborne sitting on Marr’s sofa, we have Janner’s daughter, Douglas Murray of the HJS, and Bishop Nazer-Ali discussing terrorism. You get the drift.
Are we too selfish to be donors?
In the past ten years, there has been a 40 per cent decline in new blood donors, and while stem cell transplants from adult donors are the last hope for patients with blood cancers, more than 400 patients die each year because they lack a suitable donor. But why are we so reluctant to donate? Have our busy lives eradicated our generosity towards those in need? Are we too selfish to be donors?
Mirabela al-Shaikh’s son Omar lost his battle with leukaemia one week before the programme, when a donor could not be found in time. She speaks about the losing battle. BBC Journalist and acute myeloid leukaemia patient Sue Lloyd Roberts shares an exclusive update about her own quest for a stem cell donor.
Panel:
Journalist and researcher Myriam Francois-Cerrah
Former Anglican bishop of Rochester and former HFEA member Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali
Senior Rabbi to the Movement for Reform Judaism Rabbi Laura Janner-Klausner
Journalist and acute myeloid leukaemia patient Sue Lloyd Roberts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b061xdc5
Ms Francois-Cerrah is in the minority on the question of getting teachers to out radicalism in the discussion on ‘How should Britain combat extremism?’
Murray definitely has open access to the BBC airwaves.
Nazer-Ali is well known for anti Islamist views.
There are a number of comments suggesting that Italy is somehow a part of the Spain, Portugal, Ireland gang of financially stressed countries. Not true. Please remember that the UK real debt is 8.6 trillion and is worse than Greece, Italy is, like France and Germany, around 3.4 trillion. Yes, the UK is way out there and is being artificially kept afloat by its ‘friends’. Greece has been taken to the cleaners by the internationally corrupt seeking to dismantle that country and impose regime change. Italy has survived the euro whereas the UK most certainly could not.
“There are a number of comments suggesting that Italy is somehow a part of the Spain, Portugal, Ireland gang of financially stressed countries. Not true. Please remember that the UK real debt is 8.6 trillion and is worse than Greece, Italy is, like France and Germany, around 3.4 trillion. Yes, the UK is way out there and is being artificially kept afloat by its ‘friends’. Greece has been taken to the cleaners by the internationally corrupt seeking to dismantle that country and impose regime change. Italy has survived the euro whereas the UK most certainly could not.”
At the end of the first quarter of 2015 Britain had the fifth strongest economy in the world.
Worry about what is happening in China, a downturn in the Chinese economy would have a much greater impact on us than Greece becoming a failed state.
The old warmonger is at it again. Breczinski believes that we are already in a new cold war. When he says ‘closer links with Europe’ below, he means that Ukraine should be part of the EU.
Any automatic access to the EU would mean that the EU is goose stepping into a right wing future, a moment in time I could not support, I would become totally opposed to it.
Democratic reform of the EU is inevitable, without it it will be a poodle to the globalisers.
“Ukraine should be free to choose its political identity, its political philosophy, and institutionalize it by closer links with Europe. But at the same time, Russia should be assured credibly that Ukraine will not become a member of NATO. I still think this is the formula for a solution. ”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/interview-with-zbigniew-brzezinski-on-russia-and-ukraine-a-1041795.html
Off Topic but of possible interest to some.
THE First Minister has told David Cameron to investigate mounting concerns about the safety of Majid Ali who was deported from Scotland to Pakistan a month ago.
Nicola Sturgeon is concerned at the silence coming from Westminster, regarding the health and whereabouts of Mr Ali.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/news/home-news/sturgeon-demands-answers-from-cameron-over-fate-of-scottish-refugee-feared-dead-after.131031935
“”Do not be terrorized by those who claim that a NO vote against endless misery and humiliation would somehow be “anti-European.” There is nothing more European than a democratic rebellion under the Acropolis! If you break with anything today it would not be with Europe, but with the sheer insanity that has grabbed a hold of its leaders.” Europe says OXI “
A downturn in the Chinese economy would send America into recession.
“Ms Francois-Cerrah is in the minority on the question of getting teachers to out radicalism in the discussion on ‘How should Britain combat extremism?’
Murray definitely has open access to the BBC airwaves.
Nazer-Ali is well known for anti Islamist views.” Mary
How should Britain combat (religious) extremism? Well, the question presupposes that it wants to, which I think is the elephant in the sitting-room. If it did want to, here might be a start (a start, mind you) and of course it’s very much not all up to the UK. The same applies to the USA:
1) Stop attacking and invading countries.
2) Stop supporting extremism (currently in Syria, Libya, Iran, Israel and also historically in Afghanistan and Pakistan) by covert means in pursuit of perceived strategic goals.
3) Stop supporting those who export extremism (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Turkey).
4) Start supporting those who oppose extremism (trade unionists, activists for economic justice, civil and human rights activists, feminists, etc.) in the above countries and more widely and also in the UK.
You cannot have an end to extremism as a significant force unless there is economic justice and an end to military overt and covert (spook, special forces, etc.) action.
Everything else is simply divide-and-rule by militarism, blaming immigrants, blah blah blah and basically a diversion from the ongoing pillage – domestically and internationally – of the people’s labour and the wealth we create.
Speaking of anti-European rhetoric.
One of the Tories’ flagship welfare policies – violates the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.
In a memorable judgment the Supreme Court’s Deputy President, Lady Hale, wrote:
“The prejudicial effect of the cap is obvious and stark. It breaks the link between benefit and need. Claimants affected by the cap will, by definition, not receive the sums of money which the State deems necessary for them to adequately house, feed, clothe and warm themselves and their children.”
The UN Convention on the Rights of the Child has not been incorporated into UK law – unlike the Human Rights Act, at least for now. So on the Tories will go, lavishing taxpayers’ money on ideological pet projects while children go hungry.
The Ministry of Justice recently responded to a Parliamentary Question that the Commission on a UK Bill of Rights, which was established by the last Government to explore the case for scrapping the Human Rights Act, cost £700.000.
Republicofscotland
05/07/2015 11:35am
Thank you, that is of considerable interest to me.
Back before Mr Ali was deported, I wrote to Theresa May, James Brokenshire and my own MP protesting the deportation and requesting review of asylum procedures. Not one has responded.
They will, though: I won’t let the matter go. What is the point of having an MP or having ministers if they can just ignore communications from their constituents or UK citizens?
I hope Mr Ali is all right, but I doubt it. I am in touch with Amnesty International who have no news.
Kind regards,
John
The above measures – see my post at 12:35pm today – are necessary, but on their own not sufficient, conditions for religious extremism to be opposed effectively. It’s more complex and would not simply go away immediately; it would take many years, just as it took many years to develop. There also are conditions in the countries/societies involved which are of key relevance.
I do not think there is any place for teachers/lecturers in the UK or USA to be spying on/reporting individual pupils/students. That is not to say they should not have a pastoral role. What ought to happen really is that schools/universities should stop licensing organisations on campus which promote these ideologies and not to knuckle under when accused of this or that ‘-phobia’. But again, in the absence of the steps to which I alluded in my post of 12:35pm, nothing – not syping on pupils/students, not nothing – will stop this process.
The fact is – this is the elephant in the sitting room – religious extremism (another manifestation of Far Right reactionary politics) is perceived as useful to the UK and USA.
@Canspeccy 10:40 on NATO exit, savings are subject to long lead times. Under the provision for denouncing the treaty, exit takes effect one year from formal denunciation. Whether that would even be permitted can be seen from the fate of this proposal:
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/spannungen-zwischen-eu-kommission-und-iwf-in-schuldenkrise-13645504.html
Merely saving less than half a billion on defense to restore the people’s subsistence, and it was quashed by IMF. Fellow NATO satellites Germany and France supported the mild demilitarization but they were overruled. NATO makes the Warsaw Pact look free. If Britain tried to withdraw, its government would be out like shit through a goose.
“If Britain tried to withdraw, its government would be out like shit through a goose.” Gladio
Absolutely. And I think it is clear that similarly, an independent Scotland would face enormous resistance if it were to try to withdraw from NATO, partly per se and partly because an example of a small country leaving a war alliance would not be permitted. Once you’re in the Mafia, you’re in the Mafia.
France withdrew it’s military from NATO in 1966 and only re-joined in 2009.
They seemed to have survived.