It says a huge amount about the confidence of the royal family, that they feel able to respond to their Nazi home movie with nothing other than outrage that anybody should see it. They make no denial they were giving Nazi salutes, no statement that the royal family did not support the Nazis. Of course the young children had no idea of the implications. But the adults most certainly did. The missing figure is the cameraman, future King George, who was filming his wife and brother displaying the family sympathies.
The royal family were of course German themselves – completely so. Since George I every royal marriage in line of succession had been conducted in strict accordance with the Furstenprivatrecht, to a member of a German royal family. The Queen Mother, who was of course not expected to feature in promulgating the line of succession, was the first significant exception in 220 years. She was evidently trying hard to fit in. But I am not sure German-ness has much to do with it. Nazi sympathies were much more common in the aristocracy than generally admitted. Their vast wealth and massive land ownership contrasted with the horrific poverty and malnutrition of the 1930’s, led the aristocracy to fear a very real prospect of being stood against a wall and shot. Fascism appeared to offer social amelioration for the workers with continued privilege for the aristocrats. It is completely untrue that its racism, totalitarianism and violence was unknown in 1933-4. They knew what they were doing.
Happily fascism was defeated. The royal family is of course only the tip of the iceberg of whitewashed fascist support – without even starting on industrialists, newspaper proprietors, the Kennedys, etc. etc. But the Buckingham Palace option of outrage that anybody should ever remember is very sad – still more sad that such a position gets such popular support.
We never did get round to shooting the aristocrats.
I am an optimist in politics. My experience of life has taught me that altruism is a far stronger human urge than selfishness. Modern political fashion is based on the denigration of the urge to cooperation, and I do not believe will survive.
Which leads me to believe we are now living in an embarrassing past. Future generations will look back at the massive and exponentially expanding gap between rich and poor, at the super state security services and near total surveillance, at the violent wars waged in ill-disguised annexation of resources, and be amazed that people could support it. I also think that enormous shame will attach to all those who support the excruciatingly slow genocide of the Palestinians. That will be part of our embarrassing past.
I think Fred owes a big debt of gratitude to Goebbels. Over and over again, never substantiated, keyword ‘hatred’, and entirely on behalf of the State:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/goebbelslie.html
I think that makes Fred a National Socialist.
I think Fred is a bitter man for some reason.
I will refrain from replying to his trolling in future.
Hatred the British government is locking immigrants up in concentration camps like Dungavel for illegal amounts of time, a bit like the Nazi’s locking people up illegally.
Is that so RoS ?
From recollection, the groups targeted for the concentration camps in Nazi Germany (Jews, Communists, ‘Decadent’ artists) did their best to get OUT of that country ; the inmates incarcerated in Dungavel (illegal immigrants) are there because they have taken extraordinary measures to ENTER this country.
Can’t make up my mind on that, Juteman. But, hey, here’s the Establishment again. Bet you’d all forgotten about Cameron’s
social manipulationNudge Unit:http://www.lse.ac.uk/publicEvents/events/2015/09/20150915t1830vOT.aspx
It’s part and parcel of shifting the Overton Window* towards the elimination of liberties and freedoms.
*…I usually invoke the concept of the Overton window. This is an idea first conceived by the political scientist (who else) Joseph Overton, which holds that, for any political issue, there’s a range of socially acceptable positions that’s narrower than the range of possible positions. Positions within the Overton window are seen as mainstream and uncontroversial, while those outside it are viewed as shocking, upsetting, and dangerously radical. The key point is that, with social pressure, the Overton window can shift over time, and today’s radicals may be tomorrow’s moderates.
http://bigthink.com/daylight-atheism/moving-the-overton-window
Fred, you said “superior intellect”; I didn’t. No one’s right about everything; the point is to use the best bits from all contributions; that the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. You built the main system. I effected one improvement, that’s all. I’m glad people are doing well.
I see you’re still winding up people you disagree with by insinuating that they’re Nazis. Sorry, who’s stoking hatred? Are you sure you’re entirely innocent? One thing about Nazis is their surety of being absolutely right.
Overwhelmingly, the independence supporters I met wanted independence from Westminster and held nothing against English people. The pro-British press repeatedly cited anti-English prejudice as a major motivation for independence; this was an unfair slur which had even confused many, Scottish and English, who reject Westminster’s policies.
I said that if you wanted the decline of the SNP you needed a Yes result. I’ve been proven right in the negative; SNP popularity surged. Next will come the resentment at Westminster “austerity”. You’re inadvertently advancing the very thing you oppose.
Fred: “That would make you a National Socialist then.”
Oh – oh my! – that must make him a Nazi then, right?
Fred, you do know that the Nazis were not actually socialists, don’t you? Just doing a clever little shuffle like that, attaching a label to someone which the Nazis flatteringly self-described themselves, doesn’t make them a Nazi.
But that appears to be the only tool in your trick-bag these days.
Myself, 12:36 pm:
The Scottish electoral system is structured such that it can do this, it is proportional, inclusionist.
The Westminster electoral system is structured such that it prevents this, it is disproportional, exclusionist.
Craig
“I have no doubt you could find a few people who both believed in Scottish independence and supported Hitler”
Was James Ramsay MacDonald one of these few people?
We know he supported Scottish independence.
“The Anglification of Scotland has been proceeding apace to the damage of its education, its music, its literature, its genius, and the generation that is growing up under this influence is uprooted from its past.”
It’s open to debate if he supported Hitler,however:
After Hitler’s re-militarisation of the Rhineland in 1936, MacDonald declared that he was “pleased” that the Treaty of Versailles was “vanishing”, expressing his hope that the French had been taught a “severe lesson” (wiki)
Now we know he had a few friends as well as a few enemies within Scotland.
Any evidence?
Well, he was expelled from Moray Golf Club in Lossiemouth, however a Special General Meeting held in 1929 voted for his reinstatement. However, apparently he refused the offer.
Another vote he took part in was Combined Scottish Universities by-election, 27–31 January 1936. He came first with 16,393 (56.5%) votes, second was SNP Andrew Dewar Gibb 9,034 (31.1%)votes.
The constituency was not a physical area but was rather elected by the graduates of the Scottish Universities of St Andrews, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.
Another educational area, within Scotland, Ramsay had links with was Gordonstoun, a co-educational independent school for boarding and day pupils in Moray.
He is linked to this school through its founder German educator Kurt Hahn. If reports are to be believed, Ramsay was instrumental in Hahn’s release and was exile to Britain after arrest in Germany in March 1933.
Prior to this arrest Oxford-trained Hahn first served as head of the Berlin Foreign Ministry’s intelligence desk, then as special adviser to Prince Max von Baden (chancellor).
Von Baden and Hahn set up a school in a wing of Schloss Salem, employing ‘a combination of monasticism and the Nazis’ strength-through-joy system.’
Hahn, who was part Jewish,got into trouble with the SS, after lending his support the more centrist elements of the Nazi Party.
Apparently,”What Hahn really had become is what Henry Kissinger’s friend, and other fascists whom the hard-core Nazis would have no dealings with.”
Through Hahn’s powerful connections he managed to escape the concentration camps, and if reports are to be believed became an adviser to the Foreign Office in London.
The school Hahn had help set up, became under control of the Hitler Youth and the Nazi Party.
It was following Hahn’s departure that Prince Philip arrived at Hahn’s school in, whose curriculum had become Nazi race science.
After leaving Schloss Salem, Lockheed was to attend Hahn’s Gordonstoun, as did his children.
His daughter, Princess Anne is /was parent governor at Gordonstoun.
Whether she believes in Scotish independence is again open to debate, but she is more than likely to have been accomodative to Hitler’s policies, as have, Ramsay and Hahn.
Like you say Craig, these policies could been infiltrated onto the thought processes of both camps, in the past or present. However, to limit these numbers, in Scotland, to a ‘few people’, is in my opinion, underestimating matters a little.
Maybe I’m wrong in these assumptions, like you say ‘people have an agenda’, who knows what to believe these days?
http://ryanpaul.ca/british-royal-family-nazi-history/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramsay_MacDonald#cite_note-18
Clark – thanks but don’t worry, no offense taken! If people want to engage with ideas then they will. If they want to label others just from reading one point and hurl insults, well that just makes them look a little limited. (To put it politely!)
Sparks will fly for sure when people start talking about fascists. It’s a word like any other and is defined by it’s usage, but it does carry a lot of baggage, and hence my attempt to define it carefully before using.
Perhaps any government does have fascist tendencies, or they can certainly look that way to people who find themselves on the wrong side of a government for any reason. But I think real fascism, if you’re referencing Hitler and Mussolini, needs to show those regressive, anti-liberal, violent, nostalgia for a greater or purer past, tendencies, and not just an authoritarian streak.
So my point, and I think the point the Sun was trying to plant by putting the fascist salute and Britain’s initial indifference to it on the front page, was that those traits in the present time are exemplified more than anywhere else in the Islamic fundamentalists. It’s not an original idea, of course, but it suits The Sun to bring it up now as we are considering military action again in the middle east. They are not having a go at the Queen. They are saying watch out we don’t overlook or trivialize such a threat again. And people like Boris Johnson are there to echo the result.
I’m not as much trying to say who’s right as to simply point out what’s going on. Which is what Fred may have missed. I said we can agree the Iraq war was unjust and completely counterproductive. We can agree the west laid the foundations for the rise of the Islamic fundamentalists. Much like we laid the foundations for the rise of Hitler. But that’s not to excuse the vileness of what has been created or to say we should have no responsibility for trying to confront it.
So to counter that, you’ve got to say the threat doesn’t actually exist as they are trying to make out. Craig’s done it before by saying the whole paranoia about terrorism is misplaced and the surveillance state is being created to counter a rather miniscule number of quite ineffective and even contrived “terrorist plots” that have been prevented.
Even that, though, has a kind if “look the other way” feel, if you are being asked to ignore what ISIL are doing.
Embarrassing royal photos that the Sun didn’t publish.
DavidH, glad you’re back to argue your points. Another point I didn’t mention is that the word “fascism” only describes conditions within a country or group, not how that country or group treats those outside of it.
David, I wonder if just possibly, maybe, perhaps, you may be oh-so-slightly overestimating the subtlety and nuance of a Sun front page?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sun+headline&sa=G&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0CDIQsARqFQoTCIXE6taf7MYCFQFyFAodl-0EJg&biw=1920&bih=952
Today’s:
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1481E/production/_84389938_sun21.jpg
Clark there is your answer!
This kind of a shill always start with spurious bollocks and then gets on message; lets bomb the crap out of Syria!
The average Sun reader deciphering the bollocks on record, is as good as proffering that Jesus is sending coded messages in the car parks through parked cars’ number plates!
I have said before Clark you are far too optimistic.
Gems keep coming today, don’t they?
The revision of the historical facts, based on a strong feeling in one’s water; did their best to get OUT of that country
The comprehensive analysis of the DM/Sun/Express et al; the inmates incarcerated in Dungavel (illegal immigrants) are there because they have taken extraordinary measures to ENTER this country
Ergo the case is proven beyond any doubts!!!!
Pitiful, needless harassment of billions of electrons to come with the above.
Just why do these “inmates” (whom have committed no crimes of any kind) ought to have left their lands is the kind of question that never enters the “mind” of these sort, dose it?
“Fred loves to equate the SNP, which is an independence movement, with the German Nazis, who weren’t.”
This is the crux of it. He doesn’t appear to be able to distinguish between what Jimmy Reid referred to as good nationalism and bad nationalism.
“From recollection, the groups targeted for the concentration camps in Nazi Germany (Jews, Communists, ‘Decadent’ artists) did their best to get OUT of that country ; the inmates incarcerated in Dungavel (illegal immigrants) are there because they have taken extraordinary measures to ENTER this country.”
______________________
Those poor souls locked up in Dungavel probably did their best to get here, because we bombed the shit out of their countries, you know the countries like Libya,Iraq etc.
Not content with razing their cities to the ground, under the guise of democracy we lock them up for extended periods when they come to Britian traumatised and penniless.
Put yourself in their shoes for one moment, what would you do?
Stay in the rubbled ruins of the cities, and face disease, starvation and possible death, or take your frightened family to Britain, where so called democracy reigns supreme.
What Hitler did was truly henious, what Western coalition forces are doing and did to the Middle East, and Africa nations, well it doesn’t do our reputation any good.
First there was Agent Cameron’s terrrrism. Now it’s Gideon’s Osterrrrity big time.
Draw up 40% cuts plans, ministers told
Some government departments are told to prepare for a 40% cut in their budgets as Chancellor George Osborne launches his spending review.
24 minutes ago
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33610801
“Years ago I knew a Nazi who worked as a patrol man man for the RAC,I asked him why he became a patrol man. He announced proudly it was the uniform”
___________________________
Dave Lawton.
Interesting, did this man come right out and tell you he was a Nazi?
Maybe Hugo Boss made the earlier versions of the RAC uniforms, which is no slight on tne RAC.
I myself once had the misfortune to get into a conversation with a drunken Tory, who let rip, that the Tories see themselves as superior to the as he put it, the lower classes.
He then proceeded to ramble on about genetics and breeding combined with wads of cash, and how the lower classes were there to be used by the upperclass, always have been and always will be he concluded with.
Even back then I noted the “superiority complex” Tories have, a complex, that could’ve come straight from the Third Reich.
@fed up
How could you improve the welcome to migrants entering this country.
Would not give them worthwhile employment tone have the well being of the person and improve the utility of the state. Thus balancing the intuitional well being and utilitarian outlook systematically.
Leaving the corporate state and market forces to act independantly from government doesn’t guarantee welfare of the individual leaving them vulnerable to violence and exploitation.
Meanwhile this theatrical farce continues to drag along.
Taxpayers/Truth & Justice 0 BLiar and Co 1
Iraq Inquiry Refused No 10 Help With Report
The Prime Minister offered help to speed up the release of the delayed report, which has so far cost taxpayers £10.3m.
15:13,
Tuesday 21 July 2015
http://news.sky.com/story/1522737/iraq-inquiry-refused-no-10-help-with-report
“Which leads me to believe we are now living in an embarrassing past. ”
Learn how to make sentences, please.
“Because the tactics of the Nationalists is to generate hatred. Hatred of Conservatives, hatred of Socialists and even hatred of Liberals. Hatred of Westminster, hatred of the establishment and hatred of the media who don’t print what they want people to hear.”
___________________________
You gotta love this guy.
Hatred of the Conservatives, I wouldn’t need to look far across the border into England to see that many English folk dislike the Tories, in 1990 running battles took place in Trafalgar Sq over the Poll tax, and not a Scottish Nationalist was in sight.
Hatred of Socialist, this guy is confused, if he thinks Labour are socialist, Blairism put a end to that for good.
The SNP in Scotland, show more socialist tendencies than Labour have in the past say 10 years.
Hatred if the Liberals, neo-Liberals definitely, Libdems more pity than hate, though with just 8% of the GE vote combined with a meagre 8 MP’s returned, I’d say that most of Britian wasn’t to keen on them, I wonder why?
Hatred of Westminster, at least you got this correct, Scotland has it’s own parliament, no need for a overlord so to speak.
Hatred of the Establishment, if by that you mean Whitehall and the House of Lords, one is unelected the other unaccountable.
If by chance you mean the Royals, well they too are unaccountable, and are the longest and costliest recipients of benefits in the history of the welfare state, Channel 5 should do a documentary on them, life on benefits, or benefit palace.
Hatred of the media, every single national newspaper is owned outside Scotland, during the Scottish independence referendum this became all to apparent in the form of bias reporting, along with the state broadcaster the BBC, (which thankfully has been exposed in GA Ponsonby’s book London Calling), who couldn’t contain their disdain for impartial reporting.
Leaving the corporate state and market forces to act independantly from government…
You believe that’s possible?
RoS, I once got into a conversation with a drunken Tory councillor seeking re-election. Why do you want to be re- elected? he was asked. His reply was the most honest you are likely to hear from a politician – ‘Power.’
But if your man was attempting to associate himself with the upper class, no cigar for him. The upper classes refer to themselves as ‘upper-middle’. Royalty and very old aristocracy is upper, and it would be in grievously poor taste to assert oneself thus if one were a mere merchant banker. Though I gather the etiquette is changing in the face of hard economic fact.
“Fred, you said “superior intellect”; I didn’t. No one’s right about everything; the point is to use the best bits from all contributions; that the whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. You built the main system. I effected one improvement, that’s all. I’m glad people are doing well.”
Clark I didn’t build the main system.
“RoS, I once got into a conversation with a drunken Tory councillor seeking re-election. Why do you want to be re- elected? he was asked. His reply was the most honest you are likely to hear from a politician – ‘Power.’”
______________________
Thankfully Baal, you sound none the worse for wear, after your encounter, with the Tory councillor.
A fate that mighten have been so clear cut had you met a drunken Eric Joyce, which may have ended with a get well soon card by your bedside.
‘Nonetheless, it is important to understand the image as more than a mere historical oddity, as British royalists and the British mainstream media would have us believe.
What the 82-year-old footage betrays is the sinister close association that the British ruling class engaged in with fascism. And this was not some aberrant association pertaining to the distant 1930s. The fascist tendency of the British state is still very much alive today. And not just in Britain, but right across so-called European democracies, and indeed in the United States.
We only have to look at how the present European Union leadership – dominated by Germany – is meting out wholesale economic destruction and plundering of Greece over the «debt crisis». Greece’s democracy is being vanquished under the dictate of European and global finance capital. The country’s national assets and resources are being expropriated by foreign powers with absolute contempt for the democratic mandate of the Greek public.
We can also look at how Britain, the EU and Washington are sponsoring a Neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine, plying it with diplomatic, financial and military support to wage a murderous war of aggression on an ethnic Russian population.
Back in Britain, Queen Elizabeth, now aged 89, just recently passed into law the economic program of the Conservative government. Prime Minister David Cameron and his Chancellor George Osborne – both millionaires and the embodiment of the British ruling class, like the queen herself – are forcing a draconian austerity regime that will cut public services, wages and social welfare way beyond what has prevailed over the past five years. The British government’s economic policy – or perhaps the more appropriate word is «onslaught» – has been condemned by trade unions, human rights groups and charities as a vicious attack on an increasingly impoverished British society.’
British Royal Nazi Salute – a Sign of the Times
Finian CUNNINGHAM 20.07.2015
http://m.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/07/20/british-royal-nazi-salute-a-sign-of-the-times.html
Oh, yes. Him. However I was a lot older than 14, and a damn sight fitter than he looks. Not that I entirely reject his obvious opinion of teenagers…:-)
Strategic-culture.org is a Russian propaganda outfit. Editor-in Chief, Vladimir Maximenko, also appears for Sputnik, Voltaire and RIA Novosti. He’s a senior Research Associate at the Russian Academy of sciences Institute of Oriental studies.
No axe to grind, then
Also on ICH if that’s OK with you.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42434.htm
If you don’t approve of the messenger, how about the message?
Too radical?
Finian Cunningham
Originally from Belfast, Ireland, Finian Cunningham (born 1963) is a prominent expert in international affairs. The author and media commentator was expelled from Bahrain in June 2011 for his critical journalism in which he highlighted human rights violations by the Western-backed regime. He is a Master’s graduate in Agricultural Chemistry and worked as a scientific editor for the Royal Society of Chemistry, Cambridge, England, before pursuing a career in journalism. He is also a musician and songwriter. For many years, he worked as an editor and writer in the mainstream news media, including The Mirror, Irish Times and Independent. He is now based in East Africa where he is writing a book on Bahrain and the Arab Spring.He co-hosts a weekly current affairs programme, Sunday at 3pm GMT on Bandung Radio. Finian Cunningham is a frequent contributor to international media, including PRESS TV and nsnbc, where he began contributing in 2012.
I like the cut of his jib.
Stop bombing their countries of origin!
Stop using every trick in the book to set back the fragile economies of their countries of origin!
Stop active sabotage of the political processes of their countries of origin!
Then there would be no need to welcome them here or elsewhere, or for that matter to incarcerate them and shove them into holding pens in some bleak concentration camp!