It says a huge amount about the confidence of the royal family, that they feel able to respond to their Nazi home movie with nothing other than outrage that anybody should see it. They make no denial they were giving Nazi salutes, no statement that the royal family did not support the Nazis. Of course the young children had no idea of the implications. But the adults most certainly did. The missing figure is the cameraman, future King George, who was filming his wife and brother displaying the family sympathies.
The royal family were of course German themselves – completely so. Since George I every royal marriage in line of succession had been conducted in strict accordance with the Furstenprivatrecht, to a member of a German royal family. The Queen Mother, who was of course not expected to feature in promulgating the line of succession, was the first significant exception in 220 years. She was evidently trying hard to fit in. But I am not sure German-ness has much to do with it. Nazi sympathies were much more common in the aristocracy than generally admitted. Their vast wealth and massive land ownership contrasted with the horrific poverty and malnutrition of the 1930’s, led the aristocracy to fear a very real prospect of being stood against a wall and shot. Fascism appeared to offer social amelioration for the workers with continued privilege for the aristocrats. It is completely untrue that its racism, totalitarianism and violence was unknown in 1933-4. They knew what they were doing.
Happily fascism was defeated. The royal family is of course only the tip of the iceberg of whitewashed fascist support – without even starting on industrialists, newspaper proprietors, the Kennedys, etc. etc. But the Buckingham Palace option of outrage that anybody should ever remember is very sad – still more sad that such a position gets such popular support.
We never did get round to shooting the aristocrats.
I am an optimist in politics. My experience of life has taught me that altruism is a far stronger human urge than selfishness. Modern political fashion is based on the denigration of the urge to cooperation, and I do not believe will survive.
Which leads me to believe we are now living in an embarrassing past. Future generations will look back at the massive and exponentially expanding gap between rich and poor, at the super state security services and near total surveillance, at the violent wars waged in ill-disguised annexation of resources, and be amazed that people could support it. I also think that enormous shame will attach to all those who support the excruciatingly slow genocide of the Palestinians. That will be part of our embarrassing past.
“Fred, you do know that the Nazis were not actually socialists, don’t you? Just doing a clever little shuffle like that, attaching a label to someone which the Nazis flatteringly self-described themselves, doesn’t make them a Nazi.”
What makes you think Nazis weren’t Socialists? They certainly saw themselves as Socialists. They considered themselves the true Socialists and the “Jewish Bolshevism” of Russia to be the false Socialism. Why did you think they called themselves the National Socialist German Workers’ Party? They believed in the state taking control of the means of production for the benefit of the people. They were responsible for the Volkswagen, the peoples’ car and built autobahns for them to drive on.
” “Hatred” is a big word.”
__________________
Baal is correct.
I would note that “genocide”, “ethnic cleansing” and “atrocity” are also big words and should be used with caution on here lest their currency be debased.
“This is the crux of it. He doesn’t appear to be able to distinguish between what Jimmy Reid referred to as good nationalism and bad nationalism.”
But Nationalists have always considered their own Nationalism to be the good one.
“The t**** still sprays his poison and names me in his latest.
His ‘negative thoughts’ are dissent and protest against a rotten system with an increasingly fascist government in charge of it.”
___________________
Well, let the above stand for the moment.
How would you define the “obsessive bitterness” I pointed to in my original post?
Note that only Jeremy Corbyn refuses to toe the Z line. At least we know that Kendall will not win, but what about Cooper or Burnham? Shame on them.
‘Labour shouldn’t have voted to recognize Palestine,’ says leadership candidate Liz Kendall
21 Jul, 2015 15:11
http://www.rt.com/uk/310372-labour-recognize-palestine-kendall/
The Guardian was represented at the JC husting by Freedland. Predictable.
The Highlands of Scotland were ‘cleared’ in one of the first documented cases of genocide of the modern era.
Some folk are lucky enough to live in those empty areas, forgetting that they are living on the ghosts of the original occupants, and they used to be full of life.
“The Highlands of Scotland were ‘cleared’ in one of the first documented cases of genocide of the modern era.
Some folk are lucky enough to live in those empty areas, forgetting that they are living on the ghosts of the original occupants, and they used to be full of life.”
I don’t know about lucky, I wouldn’t want to live there.
Some juicy/jaw-dropping stuff came out today at the Old Bailey, during the trial of Ben Fellows (who accused Kenneth Clarke of molesting him in the 1990s). Fellows is being done for perverting the course of justice (ie, for making false allegations). Apparently, Ken Clarke himself will appear as a witness next Monday, despite the fact that Clarke has done everything possible to keep his name from being reported in connection to the trial.
The juicy stuff that came out in court today was not directly connected to Clarke. It related to a well-known celebrity who allegedly appeared in porn films. It’ll be interesting to see if the media report any of this.
Also, our glorius prime minister, David Cameron, is connected to this case (Cameron was working for Carlton Television at the time).
For the usual legal reasons I can’t say much more than that at the moment.
I’ll just repeat the old cliche: a week is a long time in politics…
Fred: “What makes you think Nazis weren’t Socialists? They certainly saw themselves as Socialists. They considered themselves the true Socialists and the “Jewish Bolshevism” of Russia to be the false Socialism. Why did you think they called themselves the National Socialist German Workers’ Party?”
Oh come on, Fred. Everyone knows the Nazis were to the far right of politics, as far is it’s possible to take it. Would they have been so keen to associate with fascists, and hob-nob with European royalty, had they been genuine socialists?
It’s possible you are indulgent enough to take the Nazis at their word. Heck, if they say they’re socialists (of some kind), that’s good enough for you – perhaps. But what about democratic socialists – do they share much in common with Nazis?
The far right has done a good job, hats off to them, in demonising the term “Socialist”. You are doing the much the same with “nationalist”, as an aside. But taking the two words “nationalist” and “socialist” and then declaring anyone associated with either must be a bit of a Nazi is simply making mischief.
Craig
I wonder if you would care to step in and comment on the frequent use of terms like “genocide”, “atrocity” and “concentration camps” by some of the commenters on your blog.
As you have a particular interest in matters Scottish, perhaps you would take the following – from Juteman – as an example to illustrate your thoughts:
“The Highlands of Scotland were ‘cleared’ in one of the first documented cases of genocide of the modern era.” ?
The Nazis were virulently anti-communist and to counter the political threat, they decided to re-brand themselves as socialists to tamp down the communist’s appeal to the voter. You can call yourself anything you want, but your behaviors are the tell for what you truly are.
Ben
While I don’t believe that the Nazis were socialists – your account of how they came to call themselves National Socialists really has little basis in history – might I suggest that you read about Rohn, the radical faction about him and the SA.
On Medialens
John Pilger is at the Edinburgh Festival Fringe on Sunday August 9th. He’s just got back from the Marshall Islands where he’s making his latest documentary about the coming conflict between the US and China,
https://tickets.edfringe.com/whats-on/john-pilger-power-and-propaganda-q-a
Exaronews has a story about Richard Kerr naming members of the pedophile network that abused him as a boy in Northern Ireland. Richard Kerr names powerful men who ‘covered up’ Kincora. Readers here may be interested to know that one of the men Kerr named was Nicholas Fairbairn.
In another Exaronews piece, Kerr is quoted as saying the motive for these crimes was obtaining “political leverage”. Kincora was used for ‘political leverage’ — Richard Kerr.
“Oh come on, Fred. Everyone knows the Nazis were to the far right of politics, as far is it’s possible to take it.”
That’s because of their extreme nationalist and racist policies which are generally regarded as right wing. Nationalising the steel industry can’t be regarded as a right wing policy though.
The German steel industry was only partially nationalized by the Nazis. Krupp, for example, remained privately owned.
The Mail is competing with the Sun.
Was this the moment Edward VIII gave a Nazi salute during 1937 visit to Germany? Photographs showing former king emerge at auction – just days after royal home video controversy
The then Duke of Windsor, who abdicated the previous year, was pictured making ‘Heil Hitler’ gesture on 1937 visit
Edward VIII faced numerous accusations of being a Nazi sympathiser and once claimed Hitler was ‘not a bad chap’
Images part of a collection of photographs being put up for auction this month at Morgan Evans and Co on Anglesey
Footage emerged this week showing Queen making gesture while playing with Edward VIII as a seven-year-old child
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3169457/More-pictures-Edward-VIII-giving-Nazi-salute-1937-visit-Germany-emerge-auction.html
Baal
No it’s not possible governments need money that comes out of the corporate sector.
Limiting government may improve transparency. Harmony can improve government as Craig says in his post there is some hope for good quality inventive people coming through who can break from tradition.
Resident Dissident
20 Jul, 2015 – 9:00 pm
Your comments concerning Syria are misguided, misinterpreted or downright lies. I suspect the latter. Claiming to know that refugees from Syria are fleeing (particularly) because of Assad, are laughable.
I would suggest that none of us who contribute to this forum know what is happening in Syria for sure, all we can do is look at the evidence. You should try it sometime instead of using the same tactics as Cameron, Obama, Netanyahu and company.
In the last twelve months, both the US and UK governments have attempted to persuade their respective citizens to approve attacking Assad. They also smeared Assad with unsubstantiated claims and fabricated evidence of using chemical weapons. They failed and are now trying to attack him using ISIS, a group who they have in the past accommodated, supported and even now, turn a blind eye to, despite their rhetoric.
Previously, I’ve thought of you as a reasoned voice on debates concerning Russia/Ukraine. Assad bashing reveals your dishonesty.
Well said, Andy.
Blogs like Craig’s are overwhelmed with trolls, who all try to create a false impression of reality.
Spin, spin, spin.
They can spin on my forefinger.
@Republicofscotland
“Dave Lawton.Interesting, did this man come right out and tell you he was a Nazi?”
Well he informed me he was a member of the National Front and if I was at the bar in my local pub
and was about to light a cigarette he would pull out his lighter and would say Gas.So yes I reckon he was a Nazi.When I use to live in Bristol in the early 1960`s the National Front was quite active and would launch raids on the local communists.
Great post. We all manage to remark on the queen’s sense of duty and her unwavering devotion to her role without ever attaching the obvious adjective…germanic !
Have a great time at Doune the Rabbit Hole. I loved it last year and wish I was going back.
Cheers
THE RAPE & PILLAGE OF GREECE
Greece – if you have money you live – if you do not… you die
http://www.rt.com/shows/documentary/250217-troika-imf-ecb-eu/
Hippocrates Is Rolling In His Grave!
Not content with razing their cities to the ground, under the guise of democracy we lock them up for extended periods when they come to Britian traumatised and penniless.
Put yourself in their shoes for one moment, what would you do?
RoS- and instead of making ludicrous comparisons with Nazi Germany why don’t you get off your arse and visit the place. The Home Office even provides a free shuttle bus from the local station, if you’re interested-
http://www.gov.uk/immigration-removal-centre/dungavel-house-south-lanarkshire
http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/germanyandprussia/fl/Was-Adolf-Hitler-a-Socialist-Debunking-a-Historical-Myth.htm
“The Myth: Adolf Hitler, starter of World War 2 in Europe and driving force behind the Holocaust, was a socialist.
The Truth: Hitler hated socialism and communism and worked to destroy these ideologies. Nazism, confused as it was, was based on race, and fundamentally different from class focused socialism.
Hitler as Conservative Weapon
Twenty-first century commentators like to attack left leaning policies by calling them socialist, and occasionally follow this up by explaining how Hitler, the mass murdering dictator around whom the twentieth century pivoted, was a socialist himself.
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Hitler
History
European History History
Socialist
Liberal
There’s no way anyone can, or ever should, defend Hitler, and so things like health-care reform are equated with something terrible, a Nazi regime which sought to conquer an empire and commit several genocides. The problem is, this is a distortion of history.
Hitler as the Scourge of Socialism
Richard Evans, in his magisterial three volume history of Nazi Germany, is quite clear on whether Hitler was a socialist: “…it would be wrong to see Nazism as a form of, or an outgrowth of, socialism.” (The Coming of the Third Reich, Evans, p. 173). Not only was Hitler not a socialist himself, nor a communist, but he actually hated these ideologies and did his utmost to eradicate them. At first this involved organizing bands of thugs to attack socialists in the street, but grew into invading Russia, in part to enslave the population and earn ‘living ‘ room for Germans, and in part to wipe out communism and ‘Bolshevism’. More on the early Nazis.
The key element here is what Hitler did, believed and tried to create.
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Nazism, confused as it was, was fundamentally an ideology built around race, while socialism was entirely different: built around class. Hitler aimed to unite the right and left, including workers and their bosses, into a new German nation based on the racial identity of those in it. Socialism, in contrast, was a class struggle, aiming to build a workers state, whatever race the worker was from. Nazism drew on a range of pan-German theories, which wanted to blend Aryan workers and Aryan magnates into a super Aryan state, which would involve the eradication of class focused socialism, as well as Judaism and other ideas deemed non-German.
When Hitler came to power he attempted to dismantle trade unions and the shell that remained loyal to him; he supported the actions of leading industrialists, actions far removed from socialism which tends to want the opposite. Hitler used the fear of socialism and communism as a way of terrifying middle and upper class Germans into supporting him. Workers were targeted with slightly different propaganda, but these were promises simply to earn support, to get into power, and then to remake the workers along with everyone else into a racial state. There was to be no dictatorship of the proletariat as in socialism; there was just to be the dictatorship of the Fuhrer.”
I think the desperate attempt at conflation (FASCISM=Socialism) requires a vetting of the terms of use. Let’s just call it NATIONALISTIC SOCIALISM. The two really have no confluence in a rational world.
Fucked up post. Whatevs. Let it fucking stand.
British ‘royals’ and Adolf Hitler
After the WW I, the occupants of the Buckingham Palace changed their name from ‘Saxe-Coburg-Gotha’ to Windsor to hide their German heritage. Prince Philip’s family was supporter of Hitler and Nazis. Queen’s brother-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse (Greece) was a SS pilot who was killed in an accident during WW II.
On July 20, the Labour Friends of Israel, held a meeting at the Jewish occupied town of Hustings to scan the candidates hoping to fit in the shoes of party’s former Zionist Jew leader Ed Miliband. The meeting was chaired by Jonathan Freedland, executive editor The Guardian and columnist at the Jewish Chronicle.
According to the Jewish Chronicle (July 20, 2015) three-quarter of the session was focused on Israel. The representatives from UK’s largest Israel lobby group, Community Security Trust, Board of Deputies of British Jews, once headed by paedophile Lord Janner, and local Jewish leaders grilled the candidates to find out how much they’re willing to serve Israel’s interests over British interests.
All candidates agreed that the Zionist entity has the ‘rights’ to exist over 54% of Palestinian land gifted to European Jews by the ‘victors of WW II’. They, except Corbyn, promised that as new leader of Labour Party, their first foreign trip would be to Israel.
Most of these questions were focused on Corbyn, who is the front-runner according to a recent poll. But he is accused of antisemitism by the Jewish Lobby for calling Hamas and Hizbullah “Friends”.
Ben-donut Eater: Good posts on the BS about the Nazis supposedly being socialists.
I suspect Fred knows that full well. He’s not stupid, he’s just making mischief.
Sure… Nazis were all socialists, so we ought to be reeeeel suspicious about those socialist types. Riiiiggght. But a group of people snapping a Sieg Heil are – in Fred’s interpretation – simply “waving at something in the sky”. Of course they were – and anybody saying so is clearly nothing but an honest truth-teller.
*
Andy (to RD): ” Previously, I’ve thought of you as a reasoned voice on debates concerning Russia/Ukraine. Assad bashing reveals your dishonesty.”
RD’s peculiar defence of circumcision in an earlier thread revealed the same to me.
Thanks Glenn but it wasn’t directed at Fred. It was a broadside aimed at all the bullshit promulgated by the conservative tribe of elites slouching toward Bethlehem. It’s time to call BULLSHIT on all neocon alter-egos.