It says a huge amount about the confidence of the royal family, that they feel able to respond to their Nazi home movie with nothing other than outrage that anybody should see it. They make no denial they were giving Nazi salutes, no statement that the royal family did not support the Nazis. Of course the young children had no idea of the implications. But the adults most certainly did. The missing figure is the cameraman, future King George, who was filming his wife and brother displaying the family sympathies.
The royal family were of course German themselves – completely so. Since George I every royal marriage in line of succession had been conducted in strict accordance with the Furstenprivatrecht, to a member of a German royal family. The Queen Mother, who was of course not expected to feature in promulgating the line of succession, was the first significant exception in 220 years. She was evidently trying hard to fit in. But I am not sure German-ness has much to do with it. Nazi sympathies were much more common in the aristocracy than generally admitted. Their vast wealth and massive land ownership contrasted with the horrific poverty and malnutrition of the 1930’s, led the aristocracy to fear a very real prospect of being stood against a wall and shot. Fascism appeared to offer social amelioration for the workers with continued privilege for the aristocrats. It is completely untrue that its racism, totalitarianism and violence was unknown in 1933-4. They knew what they were doing.
Happily fascism was defeated. The royal family is of course only the tip of the iceberg of whitewashed fascist support – without even starting on industrialists, newspaper proprietors, the Kennedys, etc. etc. But the Buckingham Palace option of outrage that anybody should ever remember is very sad – still more sad that such a position gets such popular support.
We never did get round to shooting the aristocrats.
I am an optimist in politics. My experience of life has taught me that altruism is a far stronger human urge than selfishness. Modern political fashion is based on the denigration of the urge to cooperation, and I do not believe will survive.
Which leads me to believe we are now living in an embarrassing past. Future generations will look back at the massive and exponentially expanding gap between rich and poor, at the super state security services and near total surveillance, at the violent wars waged in ill-disguised annexation of resources, and be amazed that people could support it. I also think that enormous shame will attach to all those who support the excruciatingly slow genocide of the Palestinians. That will be part of our embarrassing past.
In 1928, MacDiarmid helped found the National Party of Scotland. He was also a member of the Communist Party of Great Britain. He was expelled from both parties during the 1930s.
Letters allegedly attributed to MacDiarmid found in 1941 whilst affilated to no party whatsoever, claim he said the rise of the Nazi’s would be good for Scotland….hmmm hard evidence indeed.
Meanwhile Queen Elizabeth and her parents give the Nazi salute.
Habbabkuk (la vita e’ bella)
19 Jul, 2015 – 12:09 pm
“Mr Scorgie. Apologies, but I should have added “take your time” and no need to reply immediately because I shall be absent for most of the afternoon: some beach football and beach volley beckon, I’m happy to say!”
……………………………………………………………………..
Be careful on the beach Habbabkuk, The IDF might think you and your friends are Palestinians playing football or having a picnic.
Could it be the actions of The Jewish State ResDis?
I’m not denying that it is – but that doesn’t give Assad the right to bomb and starve them subsequently does it?
“It didn’t matter what situation Britain was in, the Scottish nationalists were trying to subvert it”
A wise approach. The Holyrood should be applying it to our current official enemy, Russia, and endorsing Russian doctrines such as these, “The leading powers must return to the negotiating table and agree on a new framework that takes into account the basic legitimate interests of all the key parties (I can’t tell you what it should be called, but it should be based on the UN Charter), to agree on reasonable self-imposed restrictions and collective risk management in a system of international relations underpinned by democratic values. Our Western partners promote respect for the rule of law, democracy and minority opinion within countries, while failing to stand up for the same values in international affairs. This leaves Russia as a pioneer in promoting democracy, justice and rule of international law. A new world order can only be polycentric and should reflect the diversity of cultures and civilisations in today’s world.
“You are aware of Russia’s commitment to ensuring indivisibility of security in international affairs and holding it in international law. I won’t elaborate on this.”
That way, when Russia gets fed up and wipes out NATO’s broke-dick European vanity force, it can partition the UK as it partitioned Germany, and Scotland will be free.
—
[ Mod: Stuck in spam-queue for the last 10 hours – Timestamp updated from 03:06 –> 13:06 ]
“Galloway does NOT support Assad.”
And you probably think that he never supported Saddam either
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1598/british_mp_yells_you_make_me_sick_at_anti_assad_audience_member_on_islamist_linked_tv_station
Becky Cohen
19 Jul, 2015 – 8:36 am
“In fact, Franco’s Spain (whilst still being similar to Nazi Germany in being a brutal dictatorship) was actually one of the few countries in Europe that agreed to take in Jewish refugees from Nazi persecution.”
………………………………………………………………..
Au contraire Becky:
“Francisco Franco, the former fascist dictator of Spain, gave the Nazis a list of every Jew in his country in order to facilitate efforts to locate, deport and destroy them, according to a document found recently in a Spanish archive and reported on Sunday by the Spanish daily El Pais.”
“The paper said that in 1941, Spain prepared a list of all 6,000 Jews in its territory and gave it to the architect of the Nazis’ Final Solution, Heinrich Himmler. At the time, Spain and Germany were negotiating over Spain’s entry into the Axis alliance.”
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/wwii-document-reveals-general-franco-handed-nazis-list-of-spanish-jews-1.297546
Alex Birnie @ 10.09
I’m going to research this further before I arrive at any definitive conclusions. I have previously stated on here, that all things considered, I would have voted for the SNP had I been living in Scotland. I do, however, think there is more to this than meets the eye.
Mary @ 12.24,
I’m so happy you are back. I thought for a moment we had lost you.
Nice to see The Mail all hysterical at the outrage of publishing those pictures. And just to fully bring _how_ outrageous an act publishing those pictures actually was, naturally it had to publish the same themselves.
*
Good to see you back, Mary.
I see Becky never answered my question.
Mr Scorgie
I just knew you’d come out with that one. You’re getting rather predictable. 🙂
“Look back and smile on perils past”
Well, when you think of the Bolshevik atrocities, or of what’s been going on in the world since, the context of those misguided hopes of the past changes.
Mr Murray is the best type of liberal – the one who believes that “altruism is a far stronger human urge than selfishness”; I fear the types who seek to enforce it by law.
“The Telegraph, have the knives out for Mr Corbyn, no surprise there then”
It’s a bit of a surprise if you believe this stuff about the tories wanting Corbyn to win.
Before humans can be ashamed of their past they must survive into the future. Fascism is alive and well because they don’t give up. They just change costumes and become NEOconservatives or even NEOliberals and we are too stupid to see through the disguise. Color me skeptical rather than optimistic about human nature changing anytime soon.
re resdis:
“I’m not denying that it is – but that doesn’t give Assad the right to bomb and starve them subsequently does it?”
Funny, isn’t it, that the Palestinians of Yarmuk have always been on good terms with Asad. Makes you wonder why all of a sudden he turns round and starts bombing and starving them. Of course it can’t have anything to do with the fact that Jabhat al-Nusra invaded the camp and forced the closure. When the Palestinians came to an agreement with Asad to open it again, the opening lasted 36 hours, until Nusra forced the closure again. Unfortunately the Palestinian fighters are not strong enough to force Nusra out. Curious also that Nusra is in constant contact with the Israelis on the Golan ceasefire line.
Where can we see this video of royal nazism?
Mr Scorgie regales us with a scoop:
“Becky Cohen
19 Jul, 2015 – 8:36 am
“In fact, Franco’s Spain (whilst still being similar to Nazi Germany in being a brutal dictatorship) was actually one of the few countries in Europe that agreed to take in Jewish refugees from Nazi persecution.”
………………………………………………………………..
Au contraire Becky:
“Francisco Franco, the former fascist dictator of Spain, gave the Nazis a list of every Jew in his country in order to facilitate efforts to locate, deport and destroy them, according to a document found recently in a Spanish archive and reported on Sunday by the Spanish daily El Pais.”
“The paper said that in 1941, Spain prepared a list of all 6,000 Jews in its territory and gave it to the architect of the Nazis’ Final Solution, Heinrich Himmler. At the time, Spain and Germany were negotiating over Spain’s entry into the Axis alliance.””
+++++++++++++++++++++
Of course. he does not stop to think that both facts could coexist.
The real point of fact is as follows: Franco did give refuge to Jewish refugees (many of whom used Spain as a transit country for South America and the US) and the list had no practical effect because Spain did not join the Axis.
Which leaves one wondering what was the point of Mr Scorgie’s post.
Resident Dissident
19 Jul, 2015 – 1:06 pm
[@ lwtc247 19 Jul, 2015 – 12:28 pm]
“Galloway does NOT support Assad.”
…………………………………
ResDis:
“And you probably think that he never supported Saddam either”
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1598/british_mp_yells_you_make_me_sick_at_anti_assad_audience_member_on_islamist
…………………………………
Ah the Commentator ResDis; that right-wing; Zionist supporting; bullshitting publication.
By the way Resident Dissident you seem fixated on Galloway’s misdemeanours but refrain from criticising the wests complicity in getting Saddam placed in power in the first place.
They gave him weapons and cash. The British even supplied him with the precursor chemicals needed to make poison gas to attack Iran.
Rog Hollis
19 Jul, 2015 – 1:06 pm – Agreed. Let us remind ourselves of this British governments propensity to treachery, ignoring the obvious truth while repeating a lie so that people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie.
It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.
Hansard 14th July 2015 Foreign and Commonwealth Office.
Mr Lidington: We continue to urge all countries to bring pressure to bear, by diplomatic and other means, on Russia to desist from its interference in the affairs of Ukraine and to withdraw the support it has been giving the separatists there. I do not believe that the decision to which the hon. Gentleman referred will have a significant impact on the efficacy of the sanctions that the European Union and the United States have imposed.
Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con): Russia is properly under sanction for its misbehaviour towards Ukraine, but the harsh truth is that in our wider relations with Russia we have a clear common interest in taking on Daesh, which is very important to our national interest. Will the Minister try to ensure that where we can find common cause with Russia, we can conduct relations positively, while at the same time sustaining our disapproval of its behaviour in Ukraine?
Mr Lidington: The Prime Minister spoke to President Putin in May and made it clear that while we disagree profoundly with Russia about Ukraine we are still prepared to try to work with Russia on combating international terrorism and advancing the cause of non-proliferation. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has this week been working with the Russian Foreign Minister and other partners in Vienna to that aim.
Seema Kennedy (South Ribble) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that Russia’s actions in Crimea and Donbass are a fundamental challenge to rules-based order, and that it is vital that we stand up to that aggression?
Mr Lidington: I completely agree with my hon. Friend’s point. The Russian annexation of Crimea and its continued intervention in the internal affairs of Ukraine are a breach of the Helsinki agreements as well as the agreements that Russia and Ukraine came to at the time of the break-up of the USSR. The precedent that has been set is extremely dangerous.
Utter bollocks!
Resident Dissident
19 Jul, 2015 – 1:06 pm
I never said a single thing about Saddam.
Doug Scorgie, 19 Jul, 2015 – 11:58 am, said: of you “non-sequitur…you seem to like using them.” Add to that strawmen and he’s perfectly correct.
Glenn
Please do not have a poke at The Mail, you don’t want the Transatlantic Sage to start linking to it again in furtherance of his favourite theme, do you?
[Cue Transatlantic Sage]
“…cognitive dissonance and denial stepped in and in March 1933 44% of the electorate voted for Hitler.”
Is this distortion of the facts wilful?
By March 1933, following the Reichstag fire, the Communist Party had been banned, its members rounded up and put in concentration camps-where they were very badly treated, (a recent LRB article on Hobsbawm by FS Saunders contains a brief description of one of them). Trade Unionists and all known leftists were also rounded up. Campaigning against the Nazis in the election they called to consolidate power was almost impossible and often fatal.
To call the process in March an election is to empty the word of any meaning. Germany was gripped in a reign of terror carried out by the Nazis and almost invariably enabled by the judiciary, the police forces and other state organs.
It is not just a slander on the German people-the great majority of whom voted against Hitler and his right wing allies in the election which led to his seizure of power- but against democracy itself to repeat the canard that the Nazis were elected to rule.
Hitler was appointed, on the advice of his circle, by President Hindenburg who had defeated Hitler in the Presidential election and was the candidate, inter alia, of the SPD.
It is certainly true that, in the reign of terror after March, many changed their allegiances and many chose discretion over valour. I’m unsure that had I been there I would not have done the same, I’m certainly not going to accuse the Germans of 1934, survivors of War, the Versailles Treaty, occupations, famine and slump of not doing enough to fight the Nazis who were, after all, largely sustained, from the first, by foreign sponsors then, as they were to be in 1947 and after, much more concerned about the challenge of socialist revolution than the terrorism-almost always directed downwards at the weak and poor- of a Tory party with guns.
I myself believe it is vitally important to understand the genesis of the ‘rules based order’ that this government genuflects to:
http://www.chathamhouse.org/london-conference-2015/background-papers/challenges-to-rules-based-international-order
Might it be post world War II Western ‘institutionalism’ i.e. dogma to maintain dominance and power?
“Galloway does NOT support Assad.”
“And you probably think that he never supported Saddam either”
_______________________________
ResDis.
Saddam Hussein couldn’t stand George Galloway, according to Tariq Aziz.
Galloway only met Saddam twice, I’m not defendjng Galloway on his indefatigability comment, in every book of Galloway’s I’ve read, he apologises for for his faux pas comment, and so he should.
Although I completely and utterly disagree with George Galloway, on Scottish independence, I do think his visits to Iraq, were in aid of avoiding a conflict between a western coalition and Iraqi forces, which led to, the slaughter and deaths of many Iraqi citizens.
UN sanctions of Iraq led to numerous civilian deaths, even when the so called Oil for Food programme was rolled out.
We currently hear much about Srebrenica and the Genocide, maybe future generations will class what western forces did in Iraq as a similar atrocity.
Andrew Morton, the author of ‘Monica Lewinsky Story’ and biographer of Princess Diana – in his 2015 book, 17 Carnations: The Royals, The Nazis and the Biggest Cover-Up in History, claims Duke and Duchess, due to their German family roots, had a soft spot for Adolf Hitler and Nazis. He also accuses Duke of Winsor of ‘flirting’ with Hitler to get back his Crown (see photo above).
On December 4, 1996, UK’s The Independent newspaper published an article with the headline, Britain’s would-be Nazi Queen, in which Steve Boggan claimed that Prince Edward, the Duke of Windsor, was a “firm Nazi sympathizer and his American wife (Wallis Simpson) was a malign influence”.
After the WW I, the occupants of the Buckingham Palace changed their name from ‘Saxe-Coburg-Gotha’ to Windsor to hide their German heritage. Prince Philip’s family was supporter of Hitler and Nazis. Queen’s brother-in-law, Prince Christoph of Hesse (Greece) was a SS pilot who was killed in an accident during WW II.
Several weeks before Nazis invaded Poland, King George VI and his wife, the late Queen Mother, sent Hitler a birthday greeting.
In May 2014, during his visit to Canada, Prince Charles compared Russian president Vladimir Putin to Adolf Hitler. In response, Russian top English newspaper Pravda.ru mocked Charles’ ignorance of his family’s connections with Hitler and Nazis in the past.
The Sun newspaper is owned by Australian-born media oligarch, Rupert Murdoch, the Defender of Israel.
“It’s a bit of a surprise if you believe this stuff about the tories wanting Corbyn to win.”
_________________________
MJ, I’d imagine that would suit the Tories if Mr Corbyn were to win and pull the Labour party to the left, much of South East England would be appalled by such a move.
Ironically the heart of Labour now seems to sit right of centre, and Mr Corbyn’s views don’t match that remit.
I wish Mr Corbyn well, in his attempt to be Labour leader, I just don’t think it will happen unfortunately.
“Is this distortion of the facts wilful?
By March 1933, following the Reichstag fire, the Communist Party had been banned,”
In the March 1933 elections 43% of the electorate voted for Hitler, 17 million people.
The Communist party came third with 12%.
Those are the facts.
Here is a film of the 1933 Nuremberg Rally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MaWSTPSA2k
‘Resident Dissident
19 Jul, 2015 – 8:40 am
I should also point out that Assad has made no small contribution to the “excruciatingly slow genocide of the Palestinians” in recent years as a result of his attacks and sieges of Palestinian refugee camps.’
Incorrect.
‘Statement of Palestinians about the Global War on Syria
Palestinian groups and individuals in the occupied homeland, refugee camps and the diaspora are speaking out
by Syria Solidarity Movement / July 19th, 2015
We are Palestinians and Palestinian organizations that declare our solidarity with the Syrian people in their historic struggle for survival, now in its fifth year. We are in a unique position to understand and appreciate the challenges facing our Syrian brothers and sisters, because we face the same challenges.
We understand what it means to have our lands and our property taken by foreign usurpers. We understand what it means for millions of our people to be driven out of their homes and to be unable to return. We understand what it means for our interests and our national rights to become the plaything of the most powerful nations on earth. We understand what it means to suffer and die in defense of our sovereignty and human rights.’
/..
http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/07/statement-of-palestinians-about-the-global-war-on-syria/
“Ironically the heart of Labour now seems to sit right of centre, and Mr Corbyn’s views don’t match that remit”
I think that might depend on whether you’re talking about the Labour Party membership as a whole or current Labour MPs.