The Labour Party is being remarkably coy about releasing the actual result of its Scottish accounting unit leadership election, giving only a percentage. The entirely complacent unionist media is complicit in what amounts to a deception. The stunning truth is that in a one person, one vote election among the entire membership of the Labour Party in Scotland plus trades union supporters, Dugdale won with 5,217 votes (out of a claimed electorate of 21,000, many of whom do not exist or could not be arsed to choose between two right wing numpties).
UPDATE: A second Labour figure just rang me to assure me my information – which was from a good source – is wrong. She would not give the actual figure and only said it was “higher”. I offered to take down the post and publish an accurate figure if she would give it, but this was declined.
Fedup, I’m not sure I understand why you might find my question so very hard to answer. Either you support the establishment of a caliphate, or you do not. It is a relevant question in these times.
African state? Might that be Egypt?
Ha’aretz: Report: Israel Conducting Talks With Hamas About Possible Floating Port for Gaza:
It would surely make sense to include Egypt in negotiations that involve territory in the Sinai Peninsula.
On the other hand, the Egyptian military government has been hostile up to now to Hamas, which is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood.
You are going to get yourselfs a hernia fed up, if you carry on like this
” I very much doubt you are a Muslim, with the hatred you have consistently exhibited towards the Muslims! Your total disregard of political Islam that classifies any political expression of Muslims as “Islam-ism”!
You are wrong, take my word for it. And there is no need getting all het up.
I do not support the establishment of a caliphate by means of rape, murder extortion,bank robbing,and much more, a caliphate with rules that are criminal. If people want to live with gay people falling from towers and beheadings for wearing loud socks, then we are talking of a gang of brainwashed gools who are inhuman, who have slandered and buried their very own religion, a shame before all other Muslims who reject being whipped up against each other by idiots and psychopath.
With this I leave, for song and dance and merriment.
Even though I am an Irish-American who has spent a good deal of time in both the Irish Republic and the UK, if someone were to ask me whether I support a united Ireland, I wouldn’t know what to say. It isn’t a matter on which I have a settled view.
Surely there are plenty of Muslims who similarly do not have a view on whether or not there should be a caliphate.
Well, Lysias (1030pm today), if that is the case then Fedup might wish to explain what you have just explaiend very quickly and without persiflage and bluster.
But Fedup has not explained that. He simply has not answered the question. Indeed, Fedup appears to have gone out of his way not to answer the question.
Just as I and others have a right not to answer questions posed by the Resident Invigilator, surely all of us have a right not to answer questions posed by others.
“Indeed, Fedup appears to have gone out of his way not to answer the question.”
And Nevermind is now not answering the question for Fedup as well!
RD
“As always it depends what the aims of the “association” were. If it were to point out that their bombing of Israel. sponsorship of terrorist attacks, abuse of human rights within their own community, the anti-Semitism within the Hamas charter were all wrong and likely to be counter productive when it comes to peace with their neighbours then I would encourage contact.”
Plainly, ‘associating’ with Hamas with only those aims would be pointless . Nothing new would have been said or learned. Are you saying that the only justifiable reason to ‘associate’ with Hamas is to criticise them?
It’s not about rights. Of course, no-one has to say anything if they don;t want to. But Fedup does not seem to hold back from saying lots and lots of things about other commentators. There’s seems no reticence at all. Fedup regularly attcks supremacists of one type. And that’s fine. So one has to question why then does this particular question poses such immense difficulty for them. It’s about discourse on a political blog. I have a right to ask questions. It is a relevant question. It is a political question of great relevance right now in the Middle East. If Fedup simply does not wish to answer the question, they simply could say, “I do not wish to answer this question”. People might draw their own conclusions, but one would have to accept that response. But Fedup has not done this either.
Bullshit Saadi! You have deliberately set out to weasel your way again! Whatever gave you the fucking impression that I am even a Muslim? Further if the caliphate was so successful then why the fuck did it went down the shitter of the history? Finally any mention of caliphate is to divert from the realities on the ground that Daesh is a creature of the CIA/Mossad et al and has no roots and popular support among the people in the mid east. The streams of refugees pouring out of Syria and Iraq stand witness to that!
Your line of questioning “in these times” is a weasel trick because I emphatically told you that there is no room for zionistan in the modern world! The notions of supremacy is a throw back to the fucking apes and primates chest thumping and showing their red butts as their sings of superiority and has no place in any human discourse.
=============
Nevermind I am fuming, I am het up! As you have yourself already fallen into the trap;
The only supporters of “caliphate” are the perverts out of the Saudi jails along with murderers, cut throats, thieves and low life scum that are given the choice go fight Assad in Syria or get beheaded!
Read Mark Golding’s contributions and you will find that Daesh is a creature of the SIS in the West, akin to Taliban that were crated in the wake of the Soviets trying to make a modern country out of Afghanistan. As you know any kind of social cohesion and any kind of social movement is perceived as a danger to the tenets of “capitalism” (banksterism really) and therefore dealt with the usual wrath of the relevant agencies.
The “caliphate” supporters are the drug fuelled (freely and copiously supplied Methamphetamine by the zionist supremacist vermin) oversexed perverts out on a jolly firing the freely provided weaponry (by US/zionistan et al) and destroying the homes and abode of the poor Syrians in the cross hairs of the US/zionistan/Saudi et al. Ever noticed the homes that these animals use as their trenches? These homes once belonged to the proud owners whom used to cherish and look after them, the same owners who are now reduced to begging as refugees running away from the war declared on them by the animals let out of the various Arab jails!
Saddi knows that I have no regards for the animals pushing the “caliphate” as a credible alternative for even greater repression of the poor bastards caught in their web of violence. However, in a cheap stunt he shoves in the “do you support the caliphate” so innocently (note the verbose tosser chiming in Saadi’s support)!
There is a legitimate political movement in the mid east that is evolving from the natural roots it has found in Islam, this political development is in diametric opposition to the interests of the banksters ruling/owning the West hence the animus towards all things Muslim and Islamic that is so prevalent these days, by declaring this political movement as “Islamism” effectively the movement is marginalised and made to look as a negative development, instead of the organic evolution of the administrative affairs of people whom are mostly Muslims and have no other avenue to express any political expression due to the draconian measures set in place by the charge hands and vassals of the banksters set in charge of these vast swathes of people.
Nevermind only fools and morons can support the notion of caliphate, no progressive thinking person could ever acquiesce/agree with/favour the reactionary and perverse context of such a political/administrative construct.
“Nevermind only fools and morons can support the notion of caliphate, no progressive thinking person could ever acquiesce/agree with/favour the reactionary and perverse context of such a political/administrative construct.” Fedup.
Thank you, Fedup. I do appreciate it. Your views are most interesting and I appreciate you sharing them. I also happen to agree with you.
“Saddi knows that I have no regards for the animals pushing the “caliphate” as a credible alternative for even greater repression of the poor bastards caught in their web of violence.” fedup.
Actually, until now, I did not know this. That is why i was asking you the question. Thank you for answering it.
Voting for the Labour leadership has started, and with Corbyn miles ahead in the polls, now is the time when one or more of the muppets would normally pull out of the race, to give the remaining muppet a better chance against Corbyn.
This hasn’t happened, which might lead one to the conclusion that the leadership race is going to be nobbled. Yup, aided and abetted by the media…
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/19/leak-eveal-labour-ignored-legal-membership
If the members are not allowed to elect Corbyn (‘supporters’ are a very small minority of the electorate) the Labour Party will be toast; as will all democracy in the UK.
Expect large scale civil unrest before the year is out; which will probably give ‘them’ the excuse they are looking for to turn Britain into a full-on police state.
This ain’t like the wide scale riots in the early 1980s. Now there’s been a corporate coup d’etat in Britain and a police state has all been passed into law, in the name of protecting citizens from the Muslim bogeyman.
Just about all of these vermin in Westminster should be put on trial for high treason.
Anon1 – Beaching It Up In Zionistan
– 11:27 pm
Do the decent thing, and say you wish to retract this line – “( parasite as well if you’re Jewish)”
it’s a disgusting Lie
Node.
Good to see ya back.
Nevermind, Safe travels.
Hello Suhayl – The ‘Caliphate’ is a useful Western acronym which in no way represents Khalifa or ‘successor’ to Muhammad PHUH demanding allegiance. Caliphate serves as a Western or British technique to ‘divide’ and create chaos in Syria by way of pitching Hezbollah and Russian mercenaries against the Free Syrian Army and al-Nusra Front.
Our own military experts, ex SAS/SBS and others are right now in Machta Hammond nr the Al Kabir river, training around 3000 FSA/Nusra so called Islamic State fighters.
Putin knew this two years ago – I told him! so we kept him[Putin] busy with Ukraine and NATO while we attempt to smash Syria.
These neoCon djinn can only be frustrated by intention – your intention; who frolics with the perverse?
Fedup is justified in getting angry about SS’s “question”, as this disingenuous tactic of asking loaded guilt by association “questions” is one generally used by Gatekeepers/Enforcers; it’s no co-incidence that the other two Posters who sometimes engage in this same sly control-freakery are Clark & Jon; all pretend that their simple little yes or no questions are sincere & innocent, whereas in fact they are being dishonest & devious; everybody who has ever read any of Fedup’s comments about the ME will have been in no doubt whatsoever about his views about the “Caliphate” motivated extremists, yet SS expects us to believe that this has somehow eluded him; so SS pops his little diversionary & smearing “question” at the opportune time when Fedup is picking him up for his gatekeeping suggestion for banishing criticism of Israel from current topical discussions, to the obscurity of a dedicated thread.
Sometimes the agenda driven Gatekeepers here, are as transparent as the resident Trolls.
@RD “Why is it a smear? It is a matter of public record that Corbyn has associated with Hamas, Hezbollah and before that the IRA – all of which are/were in whole or part proscribed terrorist groups. You may wish to argue that this is ok – but the facts still stand.”
Loads of people have associated with proscribed terrorist groups like the IRA so have I. They use to drink in the Robin Hoods Retreat Bristol.Get a grip man I really don`t know what planet you are on.
You seemed to have led a very sheltered life.
If Corbyn is the real deal and not some Trojan Tel-Aviv vote splitting sleeper they will whack him if he gets uppity enough.
If he goes far enough left he’ll be doing the Tory’s work for them.
This is often how the deep shit works,could this be the play?
Believe nothing.
See history passim..
21,000 members in Scotland seems pretty plausible, given the UK membership of Labour, and the population of Scotland compared to Great Britain.
Scotland had 8.6% of UK excluding Northern Ireland population in 2011: (5,295,000 / (63,182,000 – 1,810,963)). Pre-Corbyn UK Labour party membership was 221k. 8.6% of 221k is 19,000. So 21k is just a little higher support than the rest of UK, which seems about right.
Jeez, just piped Macky’s first paragraph at 01:08 through wc (wordcount), and there are no fewer than 147 words in that single sentence. Very impressive.
But I don’t think Fedup is upset about the question, rather, he thought it insulting to have to answer it. lysias came to the same position as myself – if asked whether I supported independence for Wales, I’d have to admit to much ambivalence about a difficult question. But I wouldn’t think it an outright cheek to even be asked. It was clearly a more difficult question than that for Fedup. I’d like to thank Fedup for such a passionate, cogent reply.
“‘Do you support the establishment of a caliphate?’”
My answer: Hell no!
That wasn’t difficult. Not for me, anyway.
But “Yes or no questions” are not always gotchas. They are a way of pointing out that the position is not either black or white. Take immigration – does anyone favour unlimited immigration? John Goss said he did. Macky seemed to be pushing in favour. But if your answer is “yes”, then the next question is – what is the practical upper limit on our capacity to accept immigrants?
Let’s also distinguish between those fleeing danger, and those wishing to bypass the usual visa route.
We’ve not got into that much yet – I’d like to. Macky said (iirc) only 20% of the country is urbanised. But what about the rest – is wildlife and countryside of no value? We cannot sustainably support life with our current load, let alone 100% of the country’s area taken over with housing. And so on.
*
Fedup: Thanks for expanding our understanding of your position at 23:17 .
It’s hard for any of us living in the UK to imagine what it would be like to live in an open air prison.
This is a fresh and novel take on the logistics of life for the Palestinians under the Occupation.
Palestine, the alternate universe
http://www.civilarab.com/palestine-the-alternate-universe/
Quite short but terse.
The author has also written Being a Palestinian Makes Me Smile.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0991467906/
I suppose if you don’t laugh, you cry.
No worries about being ‘swamped’ by refugees aka ‘migrants’.
Mrs May has it all in hand. She is setting up a joint ‘command and control centre’ with the French to repel all boarders and will be meeting Monsieur Cazeneuve later.
Look at the state broadcaster’s choice of words.
Calais migrant crisis: UK-French centre to fight people smugglers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33992952
They can’t even spell Cazeneuve correctly.
Not even the graves of the ancestors of the Palestinians are sacrosanct.
Outrage at Israeli Plan to Build on Historic Muslim Cemetery
by Jonathan Cook / August 19th, 2015
Officials in Jerusalem have approved a massive construction project, including plans for housing, shops and a hotel, on one of the largest and most historically important Islamic cemeteries in the Middle East.
A previous project to build a courthouse at the site, part of Mamilla Cemetery, was scrapped two years ago after it provoked a storm of protest.
The graveyard, just outside Jerusalem’s Old City walls, is said to be the final resting place of the Prophet Mohammed’s companions as well as thousands of Saladin’s warriors who helped expel the Crusaders from the Holy Land nearly 1,000 years ago.
/..
http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/08/outrage-at-israeli-plan-to-build-on-historic-muslim-cemetery/
“Putin knew this two years ago – I told him!”
I suspect even Putin has a nutters file (also known as a bin) in his office.
“Plainly, ‘associating’ with Hamas with only those aims would be pointless .”
The aim would be peace – which whatever you may believe would require Hamas to change the behaviours I list.
“Expect large scale civil unrest before the year is out;”
And if this doesn’t happen could we expect a period of quiet on your behalf while you rethink your philosophy?
RD
“The aim would be peace – which whatever you may believe would require Hamas to change the behaviours I list.”
So are you saying that it is acceptable for Corbyn to associate with Hamas if his aim is furthering peace negotiations?
Brian Fujisan, 12.09am
Thanks Brian, I’m fine, I’m in Edinburgh for a month. It’s mad here this time of year, not enough hours in the day for more than an occasional visit to Craig’s blog.
African state? Might that be Egypt?
Wish you’d read the rest of the comments on this topic on this thread, Lysias. Among which, Ha’aretz later reports that Israel has officially denied that it is in talks with Hamas, and that the talks its stooge, Blair, has had with Hamas are getting nowhere.
The claim that talks are taking place with Israel, with Blair as the mediator (unlikely as it may seem) is either Hamas’s or Fatah’s – reports from other sources conflict. Accounts also differ considerably as to the success or otherwise of Turkish attempts to obtain satisfaction for Mavi Marmara, to which improved relations with Israel may or may not be linked. Gaza is central to this discussion. Egypt is undoubtedly one place in which talks have occurred, between Blair and the administration, and possibly one meeting with Hamas: the other was in Qatar. Relinking to Electronic Intifada’s piece on this:
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/are-israel-and-hamas-really-talking-about-ending-gaza-siege
Relevant to the current discussion:
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/4-reasons-anti-semitism-attacks-jeremy-corbyn-are-dishonest
Who said?
Mr Pullman said: “Every government secretary of state or minister should jolly well go to the theatre, go to a concert, go to an art gallery, go to a museum, become somehow interested in these things.
“If they’re not interested, they shouldn’t be in government, full stop.
“You’re lacking a human dimension of some sort if you’re not interested in the arts.
“And I think it’s a terrible fate to be ruled by philistines and barbarians as we seem to be at the moment.
“The arts are beyond price, they’re beyond value, they’re of incalculable worth in what it means to be a human being.”
Philip Pullman, the author.
Author Philip Pullman: UK ‘Ruled By Barbarians’
Ahead of the Baccalaureate’s launch, the author of His Dark Materials says no one should be in Government if they don’t like art.
http://news.sky.com/story/1538550/author-philip-pullman-uk-ruled-by-barbarians
20 August, 2015
Labour leadership candidate Jeremy Corbyn has responded to the seven questions the JC posed last week about his links with Holocaust deniers and antisemites.
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/142656/jeremy-corbyn-responds-jc%E2%80%99s-seven-questions