The Labour Party is being remarkably coy about releasing the actual result of its Scottish accounting unit leadership election, giving only a percentage. The entirely complacent unionist media is complicit in what amounts to a deception. The stunning truth is that in a one person, one vote election among the entire membership of the Labour Party in Scotland plus trades union supporters, Dugdale won with 5,217 votes (out of a claimed electorate of 21,000, many of whom do not exist or could not be arsed to choose between two right wing numpties).
UPDATE: A second Labour figure just rang me to assure me my information – which was from a good source – is wrong. She would not give the actual figure and only said it was “higher”. I offered to take down the post and publish an accurate figure if she would give it, but this was declined.
@Jemand are you are really at that level of cretinous “troll debate” stupidity !
Either way consider the dialogue over; you have really given me the need now for a cleansing shower.
Jemand’s contributions contain some disgusting remarks and his vocabulary is from the gutter. Glad to see that some comments have been taken down.
He is still linking to the YTs of an equally disgusting racist, Pat Condell.
I thought Jemand had been banned.
Accusing another commenter of being boring?!!!
Physician, heal thyself.
For anyone contemplating a late summer vacation in Tehran -you might be interested in this museum
http://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/destinations/middle-east/71492169/the-old-us-embassy-museum-in-tehran-inside-the-us-den-of-espionage?
Has a CIA passport forgery room and other mod-cons
For those minions trapped here on Craig’s site churning the sock-puppet servers to ‘enhance democracy’, from the comments left behind on the kiwi website, it seems to have completely escaped your puppetry – with many commenters and readers radically aware. Shirley something must be done!
Ba’al Zevul; “Charity begins at home…”
But morality is innate.
Ba’al Zevul; “Straw man. Non sequitur. Smear.”
Not at all, it’s the same “my selfish personal interest first, and any moral considerations take a back-seat” mentality.
Ba’al Zevul; “What admission?”
This one;
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/08/kezia-dugdale-got-just-5217-votes/comment-page-4/#comment-545137
Ba’al Zevul; “You’re linking exclusively (when you can be bothered supporting any of your statements)to Russian State supported media.”
Downright lie; the majority of my links are not Russian State supported; (now that is what a real smear is !)
Ba’al Zevul; “Has to? Who’s the arbiter? Ah. Putin.”
No, anybody with a functioning impartial brain.
Ba’al Zevul; “Is that unusual in your world? I suspect it is.”
It was rather noticeable that for a very long while you only strictly posted during office hours, and never weekends; it’s only relativity recently that this change.
Ba’al Zevul; “Also (offhand) a Ukrainian, a Bulgarian (good mate) three Chinese, two Spanish, one French, two Iraq Kurds, a Saudi (I think – he may have left) one Irishman, two Scots, a German and quite a lot of English….and no, it’s not security. Guess on.”
Ok, here’s a guess, Brigade77 ;
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/31/british-army-facebook-warriors-77th-brigade
Ba’al Zevul; “We both despise useful idiots. Our definitions of ‘useful idiot’ converge on you. Coincidence? I think not.”
LOL ! Full marks for great pretense, having no time for Habby Troll, even introducing Habba-break, etc, but little signs where there all along. 😀
“Accusing another commenter of being boring?!!!”
_______________
Perhaps predictable would be a better word.
As boring (or predictable) as someone else on here who maintains a running commentary on what he is/has been reading? 🙂
O/T
Spivey escapes jail.
http://www.itv.com/news/london/2015-08-27/internet-troll-avoids-jail-after-claiming-lee-rigby-murder-was-anti-islamic-conspiracy/
J
The Independent has been reading declassified US .mil docus,
quite a story emerges ” only Tony can be relied upon to go to war with us ”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/declassified-cia-documents-reveal-how-disastrous-americas-post911-plans-really-were-10474882.html
Quick summary is that the plans were foolish & naïve. . . not to mention mass deaths
Delegitimisation anyone?
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-reveals-delegitimization-department-spy-boycott-activists?
John Spencer-Davis it is quite a times we are living in, anyone who disagrees with the state and the oligarchs owning the media is sent to face the courts! The only bit of “freedom” brand that kept being rammed down the throats of everyone was; “freedom of expression”, along with “freedom” to be unemployed (cuz there are no jobs but hey if you look hard enough you will find one!) “freedom” to be homeless, “freedom” to be hungry and in need of assistance from food banks after having worked a forty eight hour week.
However as in evidence in these times that fig leaf is no longer current, and anyone expressing any out of order point of views can be sent down to concentrate about their evil deeds and become chastened.
The latest batch of “terrorists” are a 14 year old boy and a sixteen year old girl who was searching for Daesh “jihadi john” pictures on her school computer. These terrorists were sitting in Lancashire and were busy terroring about in Australia and New Zealand.
Not only that but also this;
UK schoolgirl admits IS terror charges
Although to combat all these terrorists British police to hire CONVICTED TERRORISTS to combat Islamic State
“foolish & naïve”
Mistakes made
Lessons learnt
who knows about the project fat fucker?
From the link in YouKnowMyName comment in independent.
Jon; “Macky: I am not sure what further answers you are looking for, in relation to who should be allowed to remain in the Labour Party. Neither of us can “prove” our position, or “win” the debate. We have both stated our opinions, and found them differing.”
Well the normal process of a debate, is that each side puts their povs & then they critique each others, so the ping-pong ball was last in your court as per my post here;
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/08/kezia-dugdale-got-just-5217-votes/comment-page-7/#comments
Jon; “If you would recommend to Corbyn as new leader that he should not work with Harriet Harman, is it on the basis of being a senior politician within the party when the Iraq war was prosecuted? Or do you think Corbyn should not work with anyone at all who voted for the war? Either will diminish his party’s electoral power – as well as neutralising MPs who have been voted in by the electorate.”
Of course I don’t think he should work with her, and as I have already stated, all those that voted for attacking Iraq, they should have been barred from Public Office for life. So if I was Corbyn I would refuse to have any in my cabinet, and would press for resignations, expulsions is possible, which yes will caused many by-elections, but with clean candidates, the electoral support that propelled Corbyn leadership, will hopefully ensure that most of these by-elections will return back to Labour.
Jon; “I do understand the “pure Left” position very well – more than you think, possibly – but it is not nearly comparable to Obama deciding not to prosecute Bush and his faction. In fact, as I have outlined several times already, working with certain individuals does not preclude their later prosecution. That is probably more an issue for them than Corbyn!”
If these very same people hold positions of power, no prosecutions will ever happen; turkeys don’t vote for X-mas !! My point in mentioning Obama was not as a comparison, but as a warning of what happens to somebody when they starts down the slippery route of moral compromises
Jon; “My position is that justice for the working classes and impoverished in the UK cannot be put on hold to wait for the right moment of ideological purity: that moment, unfortunately, may not come anyway. In one way I’ve not really had to consider these things before, since the Labour Party has not had a socialist leader for the whole time I’ve been permitted to vote. So, I am considering them now, as Corbyn and his team is doing.”
There’s a world of difference between a party not containing individuals who are either corrupt warmongers or dupes for warmongers, and a fantasy party of the ideological pure ! I will be very disappointed if JC incorporates any such people in his cabinet.
Jon; “Personally, I think it’s brilliant that we have a leadership candidate who is planning an apology on behalf of the party for the Iraq war, to both Brits and Iraqis. Iraqis who have access to a television set, or who drink coffee outside where it is safe to do so, will know about this already. This can be our message to them.”
Apologies are good, but will not be of any practical assistance or help make amends, I would hope that JC pushes for restitution and other aid.
Macky..
Cheers for Commending. the wee tip as to what to expect at the up coming event with Prof Finkelstein..
John.. Thanks for those additional Names i shall check them out
Dreoilin you too for the names to check out..
He’s very good.
Seems to get the bigger picture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZBZX4ZxPjA
@Jon, seems Jonathan Cook can see some of the points I have made;
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2015-08-27/purge-of-corbyn-voters-unmasks-labour/
As usual, Macky, you run away from the hard questions that expose you for the fraud that you are. You make wild claims based on hate-filled opinion but when it comes to the simple task of acknowledging the crimes of your favoured classes, castes, races, religions and ethnic groups, you reveal your churlish prejudices and vulgar loyalties. And everyone here knows it. Even Mary won’t offer a defence of you. Run away little whiny bitch, run away.
I see the “moderator” here is still viligantly censoring posts so as to prevent people from knowing and thinking — all justified with selective applications of unwritten, subjective policies of ‘relevancy’ and ‘decency’.
Remember everyone, censorship is not about preventing a person from speaking but rather, it is about preventing ideas and sympathies from spreading.
Jon reading the article forwarded by Macky that is written by Cook, it clarifies the shambles of debate that is currently foisted upon the so called left. That includes anyone who disagrees with the rampantly corrupt and over bearing neo conservative/liberal/etc fascist lites.
The argument of “pure left” is frankly a risible notion comparable to rearrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic as she is sinking. There may still exist some who are in SWP and busy arguing how many angels can dance on a pinhead. Alas the reality is under the comprehensive barrage of the oligarch owned media, beebeece, and the brigade 77 not forgetting our own assigned zionist supremacist vermin keyboard warriors, the voice of dissent has been drowned and practically turned into white noise and background noise.
Fact is Corbyn has for the first time in a long while has momentarily reflected the huge support for the left and the aspirations of we the people who are no longer buying into the privatisation and “trickle down” economics claptrap.
Corbyn ought to get rid of the likes of Harman and the rest of the luminaries that turned the Labour party into the Tory party with a different name. Fact is anyone can do the job of these luminaries, it is not that difficult to do their job! In fact I would contend that ordinary people can do a far better job than any of these pusillanimous heavy hitters that have been promoted and placed simply because of their complaint view points to the neo conservative/liberal corruption.
It is not the argument of “pure left” it is wresting control of the party back from the neo conservative/liberal stooges/infiltrators/sympathisers and setting the party on its way for governing a better and fairer country that is less prone to reward the billionaire Oligarchs and more likely to take its responsibility towards the people of this country seriously and start governing/managing for a change instead of handing out our wealth to the sponsors of the selected politicians.
The country is not what you read in the drivel forwarded by the keyboard warriors et al, go out there and talk to people you will be surprised how left wing they are!!!!
Two days back Ba’al linked gloriously to a Forbes Magazine article relating to 2,000 Russian soldiers being killed in Eastern Ukraine and many thousands injured.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/08/kezia-dugdale-got-just-5217-votes/comment-page-7/#comment-546003
The truth is it is a lie. Who is behind the lie? A Russian Magazine “Деловая Жизнь” = “Business Life”. Who is behind the leak? Resident Dissident’s friends at ‘Open Russia’. It seems they do not mind what goes into the public domain as long as it is an opportunity to ‘Blame Russia’ or ‘Blame Putin’.
Remember in their mindset Putin murdered Nemtsov, poisoned Kara Murza and Litvinenko, sent troops to Ukraine, and equipment disguised as combine-harvesters, and caused the rain to fall in Manchester.
The truth of course is a lot different to their ‘never, never, never shall be’ slavish loyalty to British democracy and slavish antipathy, in unison with our MSM press, to Russia and Vladimir Putin. The Guardian, never shy of an opportunity to discredit Russia, has gone along with much of this nonsense.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/28/vladimir-putin-declares-all-russian-military-deaths-state-secrets
When I went to leave a comment about these lies I could not. Comments are closed after less than a day. Why are they closed? Because the article is a load of tosh from an unreliable source.
OPEN RUSSIA IS A DISINFORMATION ORGANISATION WHICH IS FUNDED BY THE WEST TO TRY AND DISCREDIT RUSSIA AND PUTIN.
It’s success has been such that Putin’s popularity at home and abroad has never been so high. I wonder why!
Macky, the piece by Jonathan Cook is excellent as usual, and I agree with all of it. But he does not mention who Corbyn should not work with, or what purges of the party would be acceptable to him – so I am not sure what you wanted to show by linking that article.
I think with your reply we are back to where we started from, which is that Corbyn should not work with Harriet Harman and other prosecutors of the Iraq war. That’s a perfectly fine view, but I am expressing the opinion that this approach may blow up in the party’s face.
I think you started out by agreeing with the “innocent until proven guilty” approach – awaiting war crimes charges/prosecutions before members are expelled – but you would now press for resignations and expulsions without that. So, what happens if this mires the LP in legal action? What happens if triggered by-elections results in wins for the Tories?
My view remains that Corbyn can do a lot of good with a soft approach, and by purging the party next month, if he wins, he will bring upon himself a cataclysm of right-wing vitriol that will not be helpful to his leadership. I would certainly vote for him in a GE but would not fancy his chances – I want him to lead the party because I think he can do a lot of good in opposition before 2020. I think he would be a fine PM too, and would genuinely seek justice for a broad audience, but he has a long way to go on that.
Fedup, I agree there is a public appetite for a Left perspective, and I think it’s great that young people are turned off by the negativity of austerity policies (even within Labour). However, if you are in favour of a purge of the party, the key issue is how you would do it. Would you use domestic law? International law? The party constitution? How do you think a purge would seem to the public who’ve been hearing Corbyn give his ‘broad tent’ speeches?
I think your view, and Macky’s, is that you can make MPs “disappear” politically and they will take it lying down, and the purge will have no consequences that you would not be in favour of. Me, I think the whole thing is a finely tuned machine, and going at the problem like a bull in a china shop will set in motion all manner of unintended effects that will act harshly against Corbyn.
Jon I am busy, but the easiest way to purge the MPs is through the local constituencies! The fact that for years the HQ has been “guiding” whom should be selected at the selection committees, and who should be bypassed.
The local constituencies would love to have a go at the incumbent who were foisted upon them to begin with. I have seen it in first person!
Fedup, alright, well that’s one way to do it. I am wary of this too, though: your strategy assumes local and regional Labour party groups are sympathetic to the Corbyn Left. As we’ve seen over the decades, Labour factionalism is complex and unpredictable, and an action of this kind may stoke a Right-wing counter-reaction from inside the party.
The narrative we’re presented with by the media now is that Left wingers are ready to join the party in droves, and I am willing to believe it. If this is true then it’s fair to say that some of them will be re-joining after having cancelled their memberships or having let them lapse. Doesn’t that mean that the long-term factions that have stuck with the party through its pro-austerity phase may in fact be the part of the party least likely to want to branch to the Left?
Not sure we should be yanking on the tail of a sleeping dog too hard – electing Corbyn is already quite a big tweak 🙂
Jon; “I am not sure what you wanted to show by linking that article.”
I think that it couldn’t be clearer; “The Labour party establishment will make the job of leading the party impossible,”; which is what I’ve said, that all the remaining Blairites & Brownites will work from within to sabotage a JC Government, they are the real infiltrators, traitors to the socialist principles that the Labour Party was founded on, and are already aiding the Tories’s attacks on the Welfare System, national education system, health service, social housing , immigration, etc, etc
Jon; “but I am expressing the opinion that this approach may blow up in the party’s face.”
I’ve stated why I think your opinion is wrong on this, you didn’t come back on any of the points I made.
Jon; “I think you started out by agreeing with the “innocent until proven guilty” approach – awaiting war crimes charges/prosecutions before members are expelled – but you would now press for resignations and expulsions without that.”
I wish that you wouldn’t keep making these irrational jumpy assumptions, as you are confusing two separate cases; Yes as with all other criminals, those suspected of crimes should of course be accorded full due process of the Justice System; For members of any Party (or organisation), the Leader of that Party, has everything right, indeed a duty, to call members to account for bring the Party into disrepute, (to say the very least !).
Jon; “My view remains that Corbyn can do a lot of good with a soft approach, and by purging the party next month, if he wins, he will bring upon himself a cataclysm of right-wing vitriol that will not be helpful to his leadership.”
He really has nothing to lose, as all hell will inevitable break loose if he wins anyway; the surreal & hysterical attacks against him at present, are just a starting point of what to expect if he actually wins, regardless of whetever he dumps the NuLabour people are not; in fact getting rid of them will win him tremendous public support, and be a big boost & aid, and most importantly, will remove the threat of internal sabotage.
Corbyn can and should work with anyone he wants to, has to or needs to. If people don’t like that then they can fuck off back to la-la land. If this man becomes opposition leader, and hopefully PM, then he will either succeed or fail. That is the test and there are no excuses for failure in the political arena. The rules are well known – ie there are no rules, just like in nature.
“The country is not what you read in the drivel forwarded by the keyboard warriors et al, go out there and talk to people you will be surprised how left wing they are!!!!”
And who was Fedup speaking to outside the street theatre events of the less than 1% – I suspect that he didn’t do much canvassing at the last General Election or at others before that – if so he would have learned that speaking in his normal manner actually puts people off from his narrow and divisive politics. That he, Macky, Goss, Mary and Herbie are in favour of purges rather than establishing a Broad Left comes as no surprise to me whatsoever – this is the way they and their politicial heroes have thought throughout their whole lives. Compromise is just something that those with a totalitarian mindset are mentally incapable of achieving.
Following the article by the Corbyn campaigner highlighting the need to deal with anti-semites among their numbers another little piece to create some more cognitive dissonance.
http://paulocanning.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/the-fascists-in-russias-hybrid-army.html
Give over resident story teller!
Canvassing nulabour style I am very familiar with!
Only preaching to the converted in a sort of an echo chamber fashion, as the results have shown; nulabour got kicked out of Scotland and it is in the process of getting libdemed in England!
Broad left? You go start your own party see how many punters will come and join! You are just sore because all those years of getting safe seats for the friends of zionistan are in danger of turning into poop and the selected and hand picked vacuous operatives kicked out of their safe seats.
===========
Jon the right wing in the nulabour can go suck their whatever, the tide has turned and there is no room for that mob in any left wing party, they will only try and hinder the process of wresting control back from the fascist lite that have a sense of entitlement to be in power evidently!
You can fool some of the people some of the time you can’t fool all of ………………..
@John Goss, Check this out for a self-incriminating admission !!
http://www.unian.info/politics/1116258-ukraine-europe-agree-on-joint-systematic-anti-russian-propaganda.html