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286 thoughts on “Independence Meeting Tonight

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  • Mary

    O/T but another example of el-Sisi’s collaboration with the cruel Occupier. This will have the effect of intensifying the siege of Gaza. The tunnels are a lifeline.

    Egypt ‘starts flooding Gaza tunnels’
    4 hours ago

    Tunnels have been used for smuggling weapons between Gaza and Sinai, but have also been a lifeline for civiliansThe Egyptian military has begun flooding tunnels used by Palestinian militants and smugglers under the border with Gaza, reports say.

    It is the latest move by Egypt to destroy the tunnels, part of an offensive against insurgents.

    Excavators have been digging there for weeks to turn the area into what authorities say will be fish farms.

    Egypt has destroyed thousands of homes and evicted families from the border, where it is creating a buffer zone.

    Hundreds of tunnels were operating until Egypt began to eliminate them in recent years, but some remain functional and others have been rebuilt.

    The tunnels, which emerge in the Sinai Peninsula, have played a vital role in the economy of Gaza, which has been under a blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt in 2007 as a measure against the territory’s Islamist Hamas rulers.

    Hamas has accused Egypt of collaborating with Israel to try to further isolate Gaza.

    Scores of Egyptian soldiers and civilians have been killed in an insurgency which has intensified, especially in the Sinai, since the overthrow of Egypt’s Islamist President Mohammed Morsi in 2013.’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34288465

    A biased report. Israel good. Egypt good. Hamas bad – Islamist, militants, smugglers, insurgents.

  • Ba'al Zevul

    And John Swiney’s threats to block the implementation of the Scotland Bill?

    At least get the name right, Fudd. This is what he actually said.

    “I would have no hesitation to refuse to recommend a proposal that did not provide us with the ability to use our powers properly and flexibly to support the people of Scotland, to address our own priorities and to improve our economy.”

    Your position is that stating an intention to use the powers of the Scottish Parliament, (such as they are), in order to obtain full delivery of undertakings freely made by the Westminster government and then agreed by all parties, is a threat? You imagine no Unionist Party would use the same tactic in appropriate circumstances?

    You have a lot to learn about parliamentary democracy (such as it is)

  • Habbbakuk (la vita e' bella!)

    Republicofscotland

    “Why has it prohibited GM crops? Well again in my opinion it’s to protect the respected and desired Scottish fresh food industry, which is worth billions around the globe.”

    _______________________

    A fresh food industry which encompasses Scottish factory farmed salmon, dosed to the gills (gills – like it? 🙂 ) with antibiotics and swimming in their own shit.

  • Herbie

    They’re doing it soaked in beetroot now.

    The farmed stuff.

    Thought it was Wild Alaskan for a moment.

    Nearly bought it.

    Disgusting stuff.

  • Mary

    A sell out. Good. Any video?

    Scotland One Year On
    Yes Dunfermline & West Fife Alliance

    Friday, 18 September 2015 from 19:00 to 22:00 (BST)
    Dunfermline, United Kingdom

    Ticket Information
    Sold Out Ended £3.00 £0.73

  • Anon1

    “A fresh food industry which encompasses Scottish factory farmed salmon, dosed to the gills (gills – like it?  ) with antibiotics and swimming in their own shit.”

    Also responsible for ruining wild salmon stocks. I wouldn’t touch the filthy diseased stuff.

  • Anon1

    “They’re doing it soaked in beetroot now.

    The farmed stuff.

    Thought it was Wild Alaskan for a moment.

    Nearly bought it.

    Disgusting stuff.”

    ——————–

    Just look for the white lines. That’s the fat on the Scottish factory farmed product.

  • Mary

    The co-editor of Dissident Voice, Kim Petersen, has been writing on the dangers of salmon farming and its effect on the environment, the wild salmon populations and our own health.

    Enter ‘salmon farming’ in the search box on http://dissidentvoice.org/archives/
    for articles by him and others.

    Also see him here.
    The Dominion, 24th March 2010
    Norwegian Farms Poison the Wild Run
    BC’s salmon stocks plunge; sea lice, salmon farms to blame
    http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/3273

  • haemoglobin

    Quote from Ba’al…

    “Haemoglobin – so what? It’s a public meeting. It’s designed ( presumably) to discuss issues around the independence movement. If the organisers choose to approach this from a pro-indendence position, whose major support comes from the SNP, fine. Would you object to the lack of American investment bankers on the speaking list here, I wonder?”

    Hi Ba’al

    My objection is not that all the speakers are pro-independence (indeed, for such a meeting, coming from a pro-independence position is an obvious pre-requisite), but that (with the arguable exception of Dennis Canavan) all the speakers are SNP members/politicians/supporters. This will limit the debate and could be seen as insulting those independence supporters who are not members or supporters of the SNP.

    The SNP have struggled to acknowledge the contribution non-SNP support made to the Yes movement, taken their own policies (sharing the pound and Queen, continued NATO membership etc) and represented them as if they were the agreed preferences of the entire pro-independence movement. They will very possibly make the same arrogant mistakes in the future, potentially jeopardising the result of any future referendum.

    The SNP is not the Yes movement and never was, despite them being conflated by both the No movement and the SNP themselves.

  • Alcyone

    Habbbakuk (La Vita E’ Bella!)
    18 Sep, 2015 – 10:20 pm
    Republicofscotland

    “Why has it prohibited GM crops? Well again in my opinion it’s to protect the respected and desired Scottish fresh food industry, which is worth billions around the globe.”

    _______________________

    “A fresh food industry which encompasses Scottish factory farmed salmon, dosed to the gills (gills – like it? 🙂 ) with antibiotics and swimming in their own shit.”

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Habbabkuk, you don’t stop. To surprise me, with your breadth and span of knowledge and sensitivity! While the other one-trick ponies and postmen others drone on like broken records.

    It would be amiss also not to mention your witty and prompt ripostes. Unfortunately I can’t keep up readily due to a couple of important creative ‘projects’, not to mention a temptress of a muse lurking around. Suffice it to say these columns would not be the same without you.

    And then there’s Craig outpacing everyone literally bombarding us with his posts in these days.

  • MJ

    “The SNP have struggled to acknowledge the contribution non-SNP support made to the Yes movement, taken their own policies (sharing the pound and Queen, continued NATO membership etc) and represented them as if they were the agreed preferences of the entire pro-independence movement”

    Yes. By adopting these policies the SNP ensured that independence would not be achieved, whatever the outcome of the referendum.

  • Habbabkuk (scourge of the Original Trolls)

    Alcyone

    How kind of you – appreciated!

    I’m also quite pleased to find myself in synch with a couple of the more egregious Excellences, even though it is only on the question of salmon. 🙂

  • Habbabkuk (scourge of the Original Trolls)

    But to go back on topic, so to speak.

    I couldn’t help noticing with some surprise that the entrance charge for the public meeting reference by Craig was £3 but that there were none of the concessions normally accorded in heartless England to the unwaged and young people and senior citizens.

  • Anon1

    Some unwelcome (or as Jon would say, “unhelpful”) news for the West-beraters this morning:

    New Eurostat figures show that 80 per cent of the so-called “refugees” arriving in Europe are in actual fact economic migrants from as far afield as Pakistan, Nigeria and Albania simply looking for a better life.

    Not, as we were repeatedly told on here, the blowback from our involvement in Syria.

    Only Anon1 and one or two others called it right.

    There are going to be some choice quotes in the coming hours…

  • Anon1

    “What would history recall? Fact that the Western governments fomented and made war on these lands directly or through proxies resulting in the dislocation and movement of masses of refugees whom then were classed as “Migrants” by the oligarch owned media and the so called state media alike here in UK.”

    — Fedup

  • Mary

    Vince Cable is deluded – opposition can unite around Corbyn, not the tainted Lib Dems
    http://www.sodiumhaze.org/2015/09/19/vince-cable-is-deluded-opposition-can-unite-around-corbyn-not-the-tainted-lib-dems/

    ‘Vince Cable is calling on progressive centre-left politicians from Labour and the Liberal Democrats to “come together” to stop the Conservatives monopolising power in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn’s victory.

    While it is true that the Tories have in the main monopolised power, having won 13 out of the 19 general elections held since 1945, this is just part of the problem. The far bigger issue for democrats and progressives, but ignored by Vince, is the fact that the Tories won most of these elections without the support of a majority of the voters, let alone a majority of the population at large.

    In only one election in the last 70 years has the Tory’s proportion the vote exceeded the proportion cast for the Labour Party and the Liberal Party (Alliance/ LibDems) combined. That was in 1953, when the Tory vote nudged ahead by a slim 0.7%. Even in the 1979 ‘Nightmare on Downing Street’ election Mrs. Thatcher only managed 43.9% of the vote compared to the Labour/Liberal combined vote of 53.7%.

    In this May’s election Labour, the Lib Dems, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru together out-polled the Tories by 14,556,946 to 11,334,567 – yet it’s Cameron and Osborne who now run the country.’

    ~~~~
    Ref
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/sep/18/vince-cable-calls-for-labour-and-lib-dem-centre-left-mps-to-unite

  • fred

    “New Eurostat figures show that 80 per cent of the so-called “refugees” arriving in Europe are in actual fact economic migrants from as far afield as Pakistan, Nigeria and Albania simply looking for a better life. ”

    Looking for a better life is no crime.

    Not allowing someone one is.

  • MJ

    “Only Anon1 and one or two others called it right”

    It’s a bit of a danger signal when people start referring to themselves in the third person.

    Syria has started taking chunks out “ISIS” in Palmyra and Idlib, no doubt assisted by lots of shiny new Russian gear. I take it this is neither unwelcome nor unhelpful news for the muslim-berators this morning.

  • John Spencer-Davis

    Fred
    19/09/2015 11:48am

    Anon1 is too chicken to give his or her source for the quote he has copied and pasted, but it is from the Daily Mail, naturally.

    Kind regards,

    John

  • Anon1

    Fred I think you have missed the point. The usual MWL on here were working themselves up into a frenzy of the “refugee” crisis being all the fault of the West. Some were even gloating about it being payback. Even Craig was saying it was almost entirely our own fault.

  • Anon1

    JS-D

    The source is Eurostat. The Mail is the only paper that refused to go along with the hand-wringing evident everywhere else in the media, so naturally they ran with the story on their front page.

    Anyway, what’s wrong with the Mail? Everyone else here seems to quote from it. 🙂

  • Anon1

    “Syria has started taking chunks out “ISIS” in Palmyra and Idlib, no doubt assisted by lots of shiny new Russian gear. I take it this is neither unwelcome nor unhelpful news for the muslim-berators this morning.”

    You mean the Russia-berators? I welcome the news.

  • fred

    “Fred I think you have missed the point. The usual MWL on here were working themselves up into a frenzy of the “refugee” crisis being all the fault of the West. Some were even gloating about it being payback. Even Craig was saying it was almost entirely our own fault.”

    Maybe they have difficulty understanding people wanting to be British.

  • Alcyone

    Thank you Mary, I wish!

    Btw, I do worry about your not getting enough sleep. I do believe that most of one’s mindbody healing takes place overnight so it’s good to get 8 hours of sleep a night, if you can.

    It is plainly evident here how the seriously-affected cuckoos on here like Fujisan and Jives (Glenn excepted) come out at the middle of the night. Wise owls they are not!

    All the best!

  • Anon1

    “This is a crisis which is entirely of NATO’s making. (NATO of course being a shorthand for the US and its jackal like accomplices.)”

    — Bevin

  • John Spencer-Davis

    Fred
    19/09/2015 11:48am

    I can’t find the latest quarter’s figures from Eurostat that the Daily Mail has seized upon. So let’s take a look at the first quarter of 2015 (January to March).

    Of 185,000 first time applicants for asylum in the EU, one quarter (26%) were from Kosovo.

    Why are people fleeing Kosovo?

    “According to the UN, 35 percent of people in Kosovo are unemployed and nearly 30 percent of the country lives in poverty. It is estimated that more than 30,000 people have left the country in the last two months, transiting illegally into EU member Hungary via Serbia.

    Exodus to Germany

    Many of those seeking more economic opportunities come to Germany. German figures released on Monday, February 9 show a significant increase in asylum applications from Kosovars – from 1,956 applications in December to 3,630 in January.”

    http://www.dw.com/en/kosovo-population-drain-challenges-germanys-refugee-policies/a-18245189

    World Socialist Website gives more details about why people are fleeing, and places partial responsibility on the EU itself.

    “In the course of the past six months, according to media reports, 50,000 people have left Kosovo, some 35,000 in the last month-and-a-half alone. Their main destinations are Germany, Austria and Scandinavia.

    The exodus is the result of the catastrophic economic and social situation in Kosovo, which is making life unbearable for the majority of the population. “Kosovo is the poorest country in southeast Europe,” migration researcher Besa Shahini, from the European Stability Initiative think tank, told Der Spiegel. “The numbers of refugees have been increasing continuously for several years, so in that respect it is not a new phenomenon.””

    “There is no organised medical care. Health care from a doctor or at a hospital can only be obtained in exchange for cash. The country, with a population of 1.8 million, is dominated by criminal clans that are closely connected to the major political figures in the country and enrich themselves through prostitution, people trafficking, and the drugs and arms trade. Corruption is rampant.

    “Those with no connections or associations with the clans in the political parties have no career prospects,” states Der Spiegel. “Many people in Kosovo are just fed up with the situation and simply want to escape,” said Iliriana Kaçaniku, who works as an expert on EU integration at the Kosovo Foundation for an Open Society (KFOS). Kosovo is one of Europe’s most corrupt countries. On Transparency International’s index, the country is in 111th place.

    Since Kosovo’s independence in 2008, the European powers have not improved the situation at all, but are themselves deeply implicated in the network of corruption and the black market. The Eulex mission, aimed at establishing an independent judiciary, is discredited.

    The daily Koha Ditore uncovered that a number of corrupt state prosecutors and judges involved with Eulex had called a halt to prosecutions or handed down milder punishments in exchange for money. German news magazine Die Zeit named the Italian judge Francesco Florit, who allegedly received €300,000 in exchange for clearing a man charged with murder.”

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/02/27/koso-f27.html

    People do not uproot themselves from their own society for nothing. If a country is in such a dire economic situation that its people feel their only option is to flee, then we need to ask why that is. If Europe, the UK, the US or anyone else bears a measure of responsibility for the mess that the country is in, then the policy makers have to accept that we (or, more properly, they) need to do something to ameliorate the situation.

    Kind regards,

    John

  • Mary

    Some facts

    Asylum in the EU

    Over 210,000 first time asylum seekers in the EU in the second quarter of 2015

    A third are from Syria or Afghanistan

    During the second quarter of 2015 (from April to June 2015), 213 200 first time asylum seekers applied for protection in the European Union (EU), up by 15% compared with the first quarter of 2015 and by 85% compared with the second quarter of 2014. In particular, the number of Syrians and Afghans rose considerably to reach almost 44 000 and 27 000 respectively. They represent the two main citizenships of first time asylum applicants in the EU over the second quarter 2015, accounting for a third of all first time applicants. Kosovars, who were the top
    citizenship of first time asylum applicants in the first three months of 2015, have seen their number drop from almost 50 000 during the first quarter 2015 to just over 10 000 in the second quarter 2015.’

    40% of the first time asylum seekers in the EU originate in

    SYRIA

    AFGHANISTAN

    IRAQ

    See the pie chart p. 3
    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/documents/2995521/6996925/3-18092015-BP-EN.pdf/b0377f79-f06d-4263-aa5b-cc9b4f6a838f

    Is there a problem?

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