I honestly do not care if David Cameron stuck it in a pig, though it is a stark reminder the ruling class are very different to us. But what is disgusting is the attack on the vulnerable, poor and disadvantaged which he is leading now.
I lifted this picture from twitter – don’t know who originated, but brilliant!
Heh, I admire your optimism, John!
John Goss: Interesting. Good on your mother for having started something so positive.
My own motivation to become a vegetarian began while living with a couple of other students. One Saturday a house-mate brought back a booklet he said some cat from Hare Krishna had handed him in the street.
It took a few months of seriously thinking about that before I abandoned meat and fish altogether, and have never looked back.
It made quite startling reading. For one thing, these poor creatures had entirely miserable lives, and terrifying ends to them. For another, it was entirely unnecessary. For a third, it was not actually healthy for us. Then one might want to consider the environment for a fourth. The arguments for not eating meat are extensive.
The only argument in favour, in a country like ours at any rate, is a selfish preference of the palate. There is no excuse for eating dead animals for the vast majority. It is cruel, wasteful of resources, and unhealthy.
Fedup,
Formal latter from EPA http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf
Some discussion
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/22/volkswagen_admits_11_million_cars_dieselgated/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/19/volkswagen_pollution_cheat_claims_epa/
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Seems the Engine management software turned all emission controls on when it detected it was being tested (eg no turning of steering wheel for example) but turned emission controls down or off at other times.
Glenn
I enjoyed a good dish of lamb’s liver last night, healthy and nutritious. Because I know where the meat was sourced, ie locally and I even know the exact farm, I know that the animal welfare is of the highest standards, and that this is reflected in the quality of the meat. Grassland management on this farm is excellent and it is a haven for wildlife. It costs more to buy quality, traditionally reared meat, but we should be eating less of it. Cheap, mass-produced meat is the problem — the idea that everyone can have a chicken for three quid, and eat meat three times a day — rather than eating meat per se. Buying a quality, traditionally reared product and eating cheaper cuts if the cost is prohibitative, is the sensible approach for the conscientious consumer, rather than abandoning meat altogether because of an awareness of the worst extremes of modern factory farming.
Also, I would add that in these cold northern climes, the prospect of a day’s manual labour outdoors on a vegetarian diet is not an appetising one. Vegetarianism is really the luxury of an urbanised society divorced from the rural environment. The vegetarian tends to be pale, weak and unhealthy looking and would not survive long (or would quickly succumb to eating meat as is his natural inclination) were he to be taken out of such a wholly unnatural urban environment as, say, Islington north, and placed in a natural state of hard physical work.
So by all means avoid meat if that is your decision based on some horrible images you have seen or pamphlet you have been handed, but at least understand that it is perfectly natural and desirable to eat meat, and that there are other ways to produce it than the modern industrialized methods that are suited more to the manufacture of cheap Chinese toys and should never have been implemented in our food industry (which, for all its faults, still has one of, if not the highest, standards of animal welfare in the world.)
Re. my speculation earlier, that the Ashcroft faction had noticed that the centre ground was in some danger of being moved to the left, I see that the timing does not wholly support this. Oakeshott states that the book could have been released before the election and claims Tory Brownie points for considerately not doing so. However, other reports indicate that Ashcroft may have assumed that
BabeDave was going to lose the election anyway, or at least wind up with a hung parliament – in which case the book would have virtually ensured his removal as party leader.Herbie – thanks for pointing out my ironic intent, which Villager probably missed. Not sure if you are referring to him or me when you say someone doesn’t practise as they preach. Him, I assume, as I try to avoid inflicting my religious beliefs on the community, but it may be that you have an example of my doing so?
I think Alcyone/Villager’s characterisation of me as a ‘vicious little shit’, among other – as far as I can see unprovoked – pleasantries earlier, possibly resulted from my failure to respond to a friendly-seeming overture from him rather than anything I had to say on Piggate. I know my Villager: it has the mentality of a low-status gang member, anxious to recruit buddies for its own nefarious ends, while crawling abjectly before the gang boss (Habba, probably). It has been interesting watching its latest charm offensive. Krishnamurti has failed: vaping is the new bonding medium. New contributers please note.
Pass the popcorn.
Thanks John MH17 – SSAW’s I love them. Especially when a young logistics woman has evidence that the RAF are flying out of Cyprus to aid the US airdrops in Syria that keep the terrorists attacks viable.
Glenn, John Goss, Anon1
I’m still omnivore. But, like Anon presumably, I live in a rural area with excellent access to meat produced on farms where I can guarantee animal welfare and environment management. The farm I buy from, for example, has a licensed slaughterhouse on premises, to reduce transportation stress on the livestock as well as maintaining hedgerows and native trees for wildlife. The meat, as Anon points out, is expensive but in fact accurately priced. So I also eat the cheaper cuts: offal, belly pork, etc, and probably eat meat 3-4 times a week on average.
It’s nonsense to say that vegetarians are somehow sickly and pale, and incapable of old-fashioned manual labour, Anon1, as I’m sure you know. Why spoil a sensible post with a dig?
I understand the all-importance of the issue of consent in veganism and vegetarianism and wouldn’t argue with people who follow that precept. In terms of environmental stewardship, domestic food security and feeding a growing population combined with respect for animals, however, it seems to me that the “best” diet would be largely vegetarian, supplemented with bivalve protein and animal protein produced on land unsuitable for arable crops (hill farm lamb and mutton, for example).
Good book on food ethics: Eating by Pete Singer and Fred Mason.
Ba’al Zevul – 8:53 am
“Re. my speculation earlier, that the Ashcroft faction had noticed that the centre ground was in some danger of being moved to the left, I see that the timing does not wholly support this. Oakeshott states that the book could have been released before the election and claims Tory Brownie points for considerately not doing so. However, other reports indicate that Ashcroft may have assumed that Babe Dave was going to lose the election anyway, or at least wind up with a hung parliament – in which case the book would have virtually ensured his removal as party leader.”
Well, the other reports would make sense, since Ashcroft’s polling was as effed up as everybody else’s, right?
BTW: don’t worry about me as a new contributor, if indeed you are! My policy is thus: generally ignore any personal arguments going on hereabouts and respond to any substantive points made that interest me, regardless of who made them. Any arguments I end up having will be all my very own! 😉
Well, the other reports would make sense, since Ashcroft’s polling was as effed up as everybody else’s, right?
Certainly. I’d overlooked that.
BTW: don’t worry about me as a new contributor, if indeed you are!…
I’m not. You’re obviously savvy enough to deal with the infighting and cliquery here. Which can get a bit extreme, but that’s half the appeal of the blog.
New vocabulary: Air to air? as in troll to troll commenting? Vaping? as in e-warrior?
No one seems to have removed my sick parody of AlcyOne’s nasty Jewish joke. Maybe mods reckon Cameron has already blown the lid off decency. Anything goes, for the time being.
Mark Golding
Are we back to war-time WRENs. Good to hear that they have the spirit of whistleblowing while USUKIS hammer the Muslim inhabitants of Syria and Iraq with their proxies Qaida and IS.
I was intrigued by a comment yesterday about collateral damage. Each of the terrorists has 3 wives and any number of enslaved women who have been passed around for rape and humiliation. As they are allowed 4 wives, presumably wife no.1 is sitting in the UK on family tax credits and free hospitals, council tax, education.
Also intrigued by one commentator here who said the refugees looked young and fit. Maybe Daish?
Does anyone have access to the full Sunday Times report detailing General Blimp’s genial remarks about the military not allowing a Prime Minister appointed by the Queen to carry out a mandate from the UK electorate?
If so, would it be too burdensome to post the full text here?
Many thanks,
John
The Aids drugs hike is as bad as the perpetuation of dangerous diesel fumes in our City’s. To think that EU car makers choose the diesel route rather than developing hybrid vehicles will hit them were it hurts most.
I would not be surprised if VW gets bailed out by the Government, too big to fail, with some concessions to be made on future profits and developments that is.
Alternatively it is possible that VW goes to the wall over their backward engineering.
@Fed up. If you have a sensor sensing that a probe is inserted into the exhaust, which is what they do at the MOT, switching the software to a lesser discrimination than it is possible to fool their software, would you not agree?
Still the bombers responsible for the great exodus of refugees, from Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan, feel no compulsion to change their rejective stance towards these people who are facing an oncoming winter very soon. Maybe the pope can persuade Obomber to take a million people into his ‘do or die’ society.
I think it is worth commenting on the food issue.
Anon 1 enjoys the thing I utterly hated about my mother’s otherwise excellent food and cooking.The very thought of lamb’s liver still makes me recoil. However the more important issue is the comment about hard labour and diet. Hard labour, as in peasant life is nearly always sustained by fats and oils and not by the meat/flesh. Obviously the source of the fat varies. In the Mediterranean areas,the most important component of the food is the olive oil. Italian and Greek peasants were assured of survival by a large store of olive oil. Olive oil s the key to Italian food. Traditional food of these areas was famously extremely oily in the past. It is less so now because the need for huge numbers of calories to sustain heavy labour is mostly a thing of the past.
A Scottish peasant diet was typically very dependent on fats from milk, and animal fats. For instance the ‘Scotch broth’ typically made in the past would probably not appeal to current palates;it was thick with the yellow grease from the boiled mutton and had a very strong sheepy taste that most people now would not enjoy.
A lot of the original association of animal fats and heart disease was based on the observation that people who worked in Northern areas such as Norway, w in cold arduous conditions doing hard physical labour required huge amounts of calories which was supplied largely by milk fat in its various guises-butter and cream and cheese. These people were observed to suffer a high incidence of heart disease rather earlier in their lives than in other groups with a less extreme or unbalanced diet -men in their forties-and it contributed to the association or idea that animal(saturated) fats were the main contributory factor in heart disease. Of course association is not causation and it is highly likely that many other factors were contributing to the high incidence of heart disease in this group.
The Korean war also provided an interesting example of how diet and stature are related. Until the Korean war the native diet was typically primarily vegetarian and agriculture did not produce much in the way of meat. The diet was based around rice, vegetables and legumes, very low in animal material. Stature of the natives was typically rather less than western people, especially Americans.
Animals were not husbanded/farmed as such, but were kept as draught animals and there was a very small amount of protein from the odd pig brought up as a family waste recycler,some chickens used mainly as pest controllers raking around the living areas and eating various insects and larvae.
When the Americans arrived they brought with them their food tastes which included a taste for milk and milk products. The local agricultural systems adapted to the demands and began to adopt more western methods and produced much more milk. the Koreans als started to eat these products and a change in physical stature can be traced from that time. This change is attributed to the introduction of milk into the diet. The key nutrient is the Calcium, allowing greater bone development, certainly as much as any protein that this dietary shift created. The importance of genetics is also illustrated by this. It seems highly likely that the population were adapted to their diet, based around mainly rice and vegetables sparingly supplemented with meat or fish. They were capable of long hard labour and feats of endurance that would kill the typical western person, despite the absence of meat in the diet.
Another factor that has an impact on diet is climate. A large amount of the calorie intake in colder climates is required for generating internal heat and oil and fats may be important in this respect. Most people notice a shift in their dietary preferences through the season-with calorie dense items preferred in cold periods. There is also an association with vitamin D but this is a somewhat vexed issue. As recently as a year ago ‘good’ medical advice was that there no problem with vitamin D for most people who got out and about and were moderately fit. We build up stores through the summer months which were thought to usually sustain us through the darker colder periods, however this advice is shifting,with a suggestion that supplement may be advisable for some groups and types of people. This is also related to shifts in diet.
another aspect of diet is ‘diversity’ of the food items we eat. We are tending to reduce the variety of sources of food over the last century . i.e. in the past the typical diet was made up of a greater number of items.(We were less picky). although the shops are full of huge numbers of items, these are processed from much the same ingredients and the choice is illusory. i.e three hundred brands/flavours of potato crisps. Tim Spector has highlighted this aspect of modern diet and his thesis is that the approx 4kg of microorganism we live with are actually very important, but that their (essential) influence on our well being has been reduced by the reduced diversity of our diet. Fewer species of microorganisms are detected in our digestive systems as the diet diversity reduces.
The other factor that bothers me slightly about vegetarianism is the problem of agriculture without animals. Animals are traditionally an essential part of a joined up agricultural system. There is little point in trying to grow wheat in upland areas, although perhaps sheep are fine. It would be ecologically catastrophic to try to grow crops in some parts of the world. tillage is just not possible or if attempted leads to real problems. Animals serve a purpose other than being a food source(although that is how they are exploited more and more in intensive production systems now.) Grazing can be an important factor in increasing biodiversity although obviously this requires careful management.
It seems to me that the position ‘we’ have adopted in relation to our food lacks coherence and understanding, and is now driven or dictated by fiscal manipulations and business factors which run counter to rational, sustainable, and compassionate forms of food production which are conducive to good health.
As far as I believe I think any government can claim the rights to over ride a patents protecting ability if it is in the national interest, in the UK I think taht power is reffered to as Crown Rights.
What National Interest is is decided by governments to what my 86 year old mum says to me on the telephone is in the National Interest and needs to be recorded, thats fair enough only a deviant or someone with something to hide would argue with that.
But preventing millions of Aids victims from dying is obviously (according to government) not in the National Interst as its mainly there own fault if they are infected, treatment will take resources away from bombing potential refugees who may clog our country and the survival of an Aids patient only stores up future burdens with absolutely no benefits.
John Spencer-Davis, last I heard the general who made the remarks enacted the punishment traditionally meted out to mutineers and shot himself. I think I got that right.
Ssshhh!
The sound of truth has got all the Cam-pig-trollets sleeping.
@RobG – Very interessting that Harvey Proctor has fled the country.
“The Duke and Duchess (of Rutland – N_ note) have been completely understanding. But their legal advisers decided it was no longer possible for me to continue doing my job at Belvoir Castle. Therefore, I tendered my resignation.” (Torygraph.)
Their legal advisers? What are the legal implications of employing an innocent man?
“Mr Proctor will not reveal to which European country he is moving for fear of being targeted by “fanatics” who have been posting lurid messages about him on the internet.”
If we say he appears to be as guilty as hell, and that we think Det Sup Kenny McDonald, in charge of Operation Midland, is on the right lines, does anyone think Proctor is going to come back to sue us?
He’s running away to keep out of jail, or to keep from being offed before he gives evidence. He’s running because he has no choice.
He claims he holds “an independent medical report” saying that, whatever else he may be, he is not a paedophile.
That kind of report is worth almost nothing against credible direct evidence. It’d probably be worth almost nothing anyway. Nobody gets convicted as a paedophile abuser or put on a register as a suspected paedophile unless there’s evidence against them. A medic saying that in his expert opinion someone isn’t? WTH?
Why doesn’t Proctor publish the report? Written by an MI6 medic, was it?
Which country has he gone to? Belgium? Czech republic? It’s supposed to be on the European continent. Any reports, indications, guesses?
Here’s a director report on Proctor., if someone’s got the time to take it from there. Others are on the case too. See in particular the company address that’s around the corner from Elm Guest House.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDSuHrsT1zQgNI0-U4uzC7-KEDBoILrDKNNCEWzlzbJYcSYKRUFg
“But preventing millions of Aids victims from dying is obviously (according to government) not in the National Interst as its mainly there own fault if they are infected, treatment will take resources away from bombing potential refugees who may clog our country and the survival of an Aids patient only stores up future burdens with absolutely no benefits.”
Daraprim isn’t actually an AIDS medicine. It is used to treat parasitic infections including one which most of us have but is only a problem in people with reduced immunity systems such as AIDS sufferers. It is rarely fatal.
It’s main use is in preventing and treating malaria which is fatal and affects hundreds of millions of people and kills hundreds of thousands every year but doesn’t look so good in the headlines.
Thanks for that immensely interesting food tome deepgreenpuddock, so to summarise the Asian diet of rice, fish and vegetables, largely eschewing milk is comparative to the Mediterranean variable diet, would you agree.
“Although some food traditions were retained by Mexican Americans, the dietary changes due to acculturation were significant and support an association between colorectal cancer risk and certain dietary components, notably, alcohol as a risk factor and nonstarch polysaccharides and vegetables as protective factors.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12881006
Good point Fred malaria as well, if people are going to let themselves be chomped by flies they deserve to die and why should the rest of us suffer?
Or back to a central issue not being addressed by pig fuckers the world over.
Since 1960 the population of the earth has doubled, encouraged by cutting edge ecomomic policies of growth and greed. But saturation was reached and now a reduction in goys is required.
The old method of was is now outdated but the economic benefits still enjoyed by the pig fuckers who start them. More prosaic methods of rapid population reduction are required.
Encouraging natural disease is one, manufaturing artificial disease is better ‘cos with DNA controls the pig fuckers can target specific genetically tied groups and of course if you can create a profit generating state of perpetual war then you have the best of both worlds.
I used to think that life would be better as a pig but they’ve spoilt that dream now.
Thanks Squonk , the articles and the debate clarified the cheatware, although strictly speaking I am still not so sure it is cheating! Need to read a bit more before I can make my mind up, in fact a lot more than a bit.
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BrianFujisan
Thanks for the article there just proves how efficient privatisation is?
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Nevermind will get back to you later
Deepgreenpuddock – great analysis. Add to it that we in the West tend to eat far more than we need to maintain optimum condition, and it’s possible to lug this in:
http://g1.flamingtext.ft-uc.com/MjAxNTA5MjE/flamingtext_com_MTI0ODMxMjUyMDg.jpg
I still maintain that being a Vegan does not preclude a spot of bestiality whether or not a pumpimg heart in involved.
I think if both ends of the pig were available it would have presented a choice for Cameron, and we know choosing is not his strong point. He needs to be presented with only one option, grasp it by the ears and fully immerse himself in it. The justifications that are presented to him at the time are not fixed so at one point it may be “a private act of fun” to “a matter of national interest”. Presenting too many options for Cameron at the start of a bit of fun will only complicate the writing of history. That’s why people like Cameron are chosen.
Helpful article on Daraprim, confirming Fred’s post and adding that the production cost is under $1 a tablet. It’s not a hi-tech synthesis, and that’s completely credible.
http://m.snopes.com/2015/09/21/daraprim/
^ Also at Snopes:
http://m.snopes.com/2015/09/11/pig-blue-fat/
Nothing to do with our blueblooded Premier, obviously.
I think the blackmailers have become sloppy they need to have incriminating evidence of acts performed that the protagonist realises will be be considered wrong, illegal, disgusting, depraved, horiffic etc only then the blackmailer has leversge.
Why should Cameron consider fucking pig is in any way odd? It was a normal right of passage for his and former generations of pawns.
Until the Daily Mail prints a story that involves Cameron’s secret plan to outlaw soup (veg or otherwise, I know its hard to believe) I think he is safe.