It is a strange world where the passage I most agreed with came from the Iranian President:
Iraq, Syria and Yemen are all examples of crises being stoked through terror, extremism, violence, bloodshed, invasion and the indifference of the international community. They are similar examples displaying cases of displacement, homelessness and fleeing from the horrors of war and bombardment. Their problems have persisted because the international community has failed them and because of incorrect actions of newcomers to the region and naive trans-regional actors. Consequently, the wave of destruction has gone beyond the Arab world and reached the gates of Europe and the United States and has resulted in the destruction of the relics of civility and precious works of ancient civilizations and, more broadly, has resulted in the death of humanity.
We must not forget that the roots of today’s wars, destruction and terror, can be found in the occupation, invasion and military intervention of yesterday. If we did not have the US military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the US’s unwarranted support for the inhumane actions of the Zionist regime against the oppressed nation of Palestine, today the terrorists would not have an excuse for the justification of their crimes.
“If we did not have the US military invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the US’s unwarranted support for the inhumane actions of the Zionist regime against the oppressed nation of Palestine, today the terrorists would not have an excuse for the justification of their crimes.”
Hmm. So the Palestinians are being oppressed. Why don’t we barbecue some Yazidis? The West invaded Afghanistan. Let’s destroy Palmyra. The Americans bombed Syria. I know, let’s put some journalists in cages and set fire to them.
Islamic State and other Islamic terrorist organizations around the world don’t bother to excuse their crimes. Only the left does that. They are fighting for the purest implementation of Islam. Once you start talking of justifications or even excuses for justifications you are making the mistake of thinking these people have rational aims, like say the IRA. They do not. They belong to a 7th century death cult and their fanaticism is as old as Islam itself.
Awful things happen to people all over the world but they do not elicit the kind of barbarity we see in the Islamic world.
@Alcyone
29 Sep, 2015 – 6:05 pm
Thanks for the link to Channel 4’s coverage of the Corbyn speech at the Labour Party conference.
I was only able to listen to it this afternoon on the radio, whilst occasionally diving across to Twitter for reaction.
I thought it was one of the most remarkable party leader speeches I’ve heard in the last 30 years. Not because of Corbyn himself – I think many folks realise that Corbyn is no political tiger or great orator – but more because of what he actually said.
Corbyn is the conduit for a very British revolution, which the neo-con loons will have a very hard job putting back in the bottle.
It’s been absolutely delicious watching the reaction of the mainstream media, and the usual pundits who get towed out on these occasions.
Republicofscotland Dignified? Dignified?
What dignity do you afford in capital punishment? The sentimental notions of killing someone with a ceremony and niceties are indeed the steps in dignifying the capital punishment. The fact that end result of a clinical execution of a convict in a clean and private room out of the sight of the cameras and the public with the presence of a token representatives, is the same as the untidy and public hanging of a convict. Both these convicts are dead anyway!
The soft approach of keeping the killing private is a pernicious deliberation in keeping the Judaical murders acceptable in continuation of the killings to come! If public are left free to see the killings and watch the convulsions of the convict sentenced to death perhaps there could be a time that the said public reacts by opposing the capital punishment.
However in your haste to afford dignity to the convicts you are in fact affording the continuation of capital punishment and suppression of any opposition to such punishment.
This can be seen in the zionist supporting racist jemand (these “angry” keyboard warriors really dig their “German” monikers) whose intimidate reaction is to jump in and rubbish the Muslims and Catholics some more (religion is bad for everyone except the zionists) citing the oligarch owned media in the way of legitimating its vile and disgusting racist conduct.
On the subject of gays!!!! This really nark’s me as ever a niche issue is forwarded loaded with emotions and little knowledge!
For your information I have contemporaneously seen the photographs of a quite a beautiful camp young man strutting his stuff in the shopping center opposite to the British Embassy in Tehran!!!!!!! The mistreatment that you are referring to, concerns mostly the execution of the child rapist.
Simple fact is those gays in Iran so long as are not publicly engaged in their proclivities, can lead their normal lives, without much acrimony. However this is not sufficient for those whom would like to bash Iran, after all there is a better mileage in bashing than trying to really dig and understand.
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jemand the waste of skin, food, resources, and the racist cretin, I will not dignify your brainfarts with a reply.
Others questioned it but I can say definitely that I’ve never seen a single Iranian. There’s no need for it, the country is at peace. It is Afghans and Pakistanis who are coming from further east. You might think an Afghan was Iranian.
Fedup
29/09/2015 7:34pm
“The soft approach of keeping the killing private is a pernicious deliberation in keeping the Judaical murders acceptable in continuation of the killings to come! If public are left free to see the killings and watch the convulsions of the convict sentenced to death perhaps there could be a time that the said public reacts by opposing the capital punishment.”
You’re joking. People would send out for pizza and beer and bring their own armchairs.
Kind regards,
John
A beautiful camp young man strutting his stuff in the shopping center opposite to the British Embassy in Tehran? Does raise the question in one’s mind of whether he was engaged in a honey trap operation for Iranian intelligence.
Some mistake surely at ref to footnote 5.
‘Micah reproaches unjust leaders, defends the rights of the poor against the rich and powerful, and preaches social justice;[5] while looking forward to a world at peace centered on Zion under the leadership of a new Davidic monarch.[6]’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Micah
One bonus for those who respond. Less typing and no letter ‘B’s.
A refugee fleeing Iran need not be Iranian.
So who would he be? Azeri, Baluch, Iranian Arab, Turkmen, Iranian Kurd? I’ve still never heard of any of those among the refugees. Iranian Kurd might be the most probable, as they’ve all had to leave Erbil, there being no more money for the jobs they had.
Alcyone
“Habby, have you noted any responses to the questions I posed on basic data on why he went to Afghanistan in the first place and, what was he doing there, and then why did he send off his family, including pregnant wife and very young children back to the UK, via Pakistan (?), and chose to stay back in Afghanistan?”
_____________________
I’ve been keeping my eyes wide open, Alcyone but no, there doesn’t seem to have a single response to those very pertinent questions.
Not even from Mr Goss who, as you know, is chief cheerleader for Mr Aamer on this blog.
But like you Alcyone (I suspect), I wasn’t holding my breath. We kmnow how the Eminences duck and weave when they’re beaten.
The words “pot” and “kettle” spring most readily to mind.
“What dignity do you afford in capital punishment? The sentimental notions of killing someone with a ceremony and niceties are indeed the steps in dignifying the capital punishment. The fact that end result of a clinical execution of a convict in a clean and private room out of the sight of the cameras and the public with the presence of a token representatives, is the same as the untidy and public hanging of a convict. Both these convicts are dead anyway!”
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Fedup, you’re getting away ahead of yourself, I’m against capital punishment, a point in your juvenile haste you forgot to ask.
But if a country does intent to enforce capital punishment, in my opinion it should be behind closed doors. Who in their right mind wants to watch a hanging man gasp for air, or hear the groaning of a man executed by firing squad, or witness, the barbarity of the beheading of another human being.
I wonder if you have any idea of the effects on a childs mind at witnessing such gross and inhuman acts.
Bashing Iran says Fedup, I think you’ll find Fedup if you’ve been paying attention that is, that Ive bashed the US, the UK Israel, and half if the EU and UN,as well as Saudi Arabia, Iran isn’t a utopian regime, and from time to time I will as you put it bash it, when it deserves it.
Jon
“@Micah and @Alcyone – the rhetorical device that bullies someone into debate by suggesting they would otherwise have to concede is a fallacy. I’ve seen it employed online a few times, aside from your usages today, and I am quite chuffed to see that commenters here are not as willing to be drawn by that as used to be the case.”
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Is that a reference to Alcyone’s perfectly legitimate questions about certain curious elements in Mr Shaker Aamer’s story?
Were you not the former moderator who did his best to get me banned from this blog I should be surprised that you feel “chuffed” that those who have been most vociferous in asserting Mr Aamer’s complete innocence are apparently unwilling or unable to essay an answer to some of the puzzling features thrown up by his case and reported on by Alcyone.
Some reaction from France to Corbyn’s speech today:
http://www.lemonde.fr/europe/article/2015/09/29/a-brighton-jeremy-corbyn-electrise-le-congres-du-labour_4777196_3214.html
And English language from Google Translate:
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Feurope%2Farticle%2F2015%2F09%2F29%2Fa-brighton-jeremy-corbyn-electrise-le-congres-du-labour_4777196_3214.html&edit-text=&act=url
(Le Monde is supposedly a left-leaning newspaper, but the press in France are even more up the arse of the Establishment than the press in Britain; hence this is a perhaps surprising piece from Le Monde)
Readers might be interested to know that the expression “to be suicided” appears to have been used for the first time in modern times (in print, at least) in connection with the Alexandre Stavisky affair in 1930s France.
RoS
You may discover that you cannot have a rational discussion with someone who believes that if Israel didn’t exist, “There would be no problems in the mid east!”.
Lysias: “A refugee fleeing Iran need not be Iranian.”
Indeed, but they’re very unlikely to be Jewish. There are a good number of Jews who live in Iran and are quite happy there, much to the fury and embarrassment of BB and other Zionists, and they refuse to be bought off. Despite generous
bribesfinancial incentives, they refuse to emigrate to Israel.Nixon was brought down by Al “Deep Throat’ Haig, not one of The President;s Men, because he didn’t go along with shooting right-wingers like Governor George Wallace, making it necessary for them to make the absurd claim that The Bureau’s Mark Felt was the principal leaker.
Habbabkuk: “I’ve been keeping my eyes wide open, Alcyone but no, there doesn’t seem to have a single response to those very pertinent questions.”
Speaking of unanswered comments… I did neglect initially to respond to a direct couple of points by your good self. You can find my slightly tardy reply here:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/09/a-woodworm-off-the-old-block/comment-page-1/#comment-554047
Since the days of Stavisky, we have also had the very expressive coinage “to be disappeared”. Los desaparecidos.
“You may discover that you cannot have a rational discussion with someone who believes that if Israel didn’t exist, “There would be no problems in the mid east!”
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To whom do you refer to Anon1?
I suppose you have a point, the countries of Middle East would be fighting among themselves regardless of whether Israel existed or not, but that’s not to say the existence of Israel hasn’t exacerbated the situation, it has.
Saudi Arabia has taken on the mantle of the big fish in the Middle East due to its great wealth, as the UK and the US jostle for Saudi Arabian cash, through arms deals, and investments.
Britain has a long and often complex association with the Middle East and near Asia, and we guarded the jewel in the crown so to speak, India, with great zeal against all comers, sending out men like Christie and Pottinger, to map routes our enemies may have taken, to steal our Indian jewel.
Lysias
29/09/2015 8:45pm
Joseph Heller had it right in the greatest, bitterest, funniest and most grotesque novel ever written.
“Nurse Duckett plucked Yossarian’s arm and whispered to him furtively to meet her in the broom closet outside in the corridor. Yossarian rejoiced when he heard her. He thought Nurse Duckett finally wanted to get laid and pulled her skirt up the second they were alone in the broom closet, but she pushed him away. She had urgent news about Dunbar.
“They’re going to disappear him,” she said.
Yossarian squinted at her uncomprehendingly. “They’re what?” he asked in surprise, and laughed uneasily. “What does that mean?”
“I don’t know. I heard them talking behind a door.”
“Who?”
“I don’t know. I couldn’t see them. I just heard them say they were going to disappear Dunbar.”
“Why are they going to disappear him?”
“I don’t know.”
“It doesn’t make sense. It isn’t even good grammar. What the hell does it mean when they disappear somebody?”
“I don’t know.”
“Jesus, you’re a great help!”
“Why are you picking on me?” Nurse Duckett protested with hurt feelings, and began sniffing back tears. “I’m only trying to help. It isn’t my fault they’re going to disappear him, is it? I shouldn’t even be telling you.”
Yossarian took her in his arms and hugged her with gentle, contrite affection. “I’m sorry,” he apologized, kissing her cheek respectfully, and hurried away to warn Dunbar, who was nowhere to be found.”
Catch-22 (1961)
Kind regards,
John
Alcyone
There’s a very good piece in the Guardian by Aamer’s lawyer http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/28/shaker-aamer-guantanamo
I realize that it does not answer your precise questions (although it does appear to ridicule some suggestions made elsewhere such as that he was working for the security service). Mr Stafford Smith might be in a position to answer you more completely. My problem with this whole discussion, and it is not the only such discussion on this blog, is that it seems based on the “Alan Partridge” idea “the police would hardly arrest you if you weren’t guilty of something”. The US have conceded that they have no evidence against him. That means he has the right to be treated as innocent. What difference would any answers to any of your questions make to this fact? They might show him in a more or less flattering light, but none of that would justify what was done to him – as the current President of the US would agree.
If the answer to a question makes no difference to the situation then the question is redundant
Edward Snowden went on Twitter today.
https://twitter.com/Snowden
Look what’s happened to Hilary Benn: Hilary Benn bumped off NEC as Trident debate looms:
I guess it’s not much of a surprise after that recent thread.
I notice a disagreement concerning the guilt or otherwise of Shaker Aamer: Surely the point here is that the detention without trial and the use of torture have invalidated any conclusion that might have been reached by proper process of law. That is the reason for the use of processes and procedures.By using these improper methods the Americans have essentially fatally undermined any case there may have been.
The ‘evidence’ of his presence in Afghanistan is circumstantial. In a proper trial he might have been obliged to explain that but now he is in effect absolved of any criminality,
AlcyOne
“Awful things happen to people all over the world but they do not elicit the kind of barbarity we see in the Islamic world.”
-ic again. As in mimic. Al Qaida and Islamic State are sponsorees and proxies of USUKIS. None of the rest of the world’s Muslims agree with them. USUKIS sponsor Islam=ic terror and violence to persuade you and other non-Muslims never to give a thought to the truth of Islam. They torture Muslims in order to make them crazy. Your government stands openly accused by the Iranian speaker at the UN.
Tim, are you sure there is no evidence whatsoever against him? Or only evidence that is inadmissible, obtained through torture, etc.
At any rate, I have a brain and its asking me to gain a rounded picture. Should I remain ignorant, since you say it makes no difference? Anyway, I hope I have explained that it does make a difference.
Thanks
Guano, are you sure you have your last comment addressed to the right person?
Deepgreen, do you happen to know what that ‘circumstantial evidence’ as it relate sot Afghanistan is?