The House of Lords broke no constitutional conventions in referring back Osborne’s vindictive tax credit cuts. The Tories and their media supporters are talking utter garbage on the question. Taking Britain’s appalling “constitution” for what it is, the arcane rules of procedure were not breached.
Ever since David Lloyd George and Herbert Asquith forced, by threat of massive creation of peerages, the 1911 Budget through and with it the start of National Insurance and the demise of the workhouse, there has been a convention that the Lords do not oppose or amend Finance Bills.
But the tax credit cuts were not in a Finance Bill. Osborne instead tried to sneak them through by statutory instrument. This is secondary legislation whereby a Minister signs off laws under powers delegated to him by primary legislation. Secondary legislation gets much less parliamentary time and committee scrutiny. If Osborne had put the tax credit proposals in a Finance Bill, as they certainly should have been – it is Osborne who was breaking parliamentary convention here – rather than sneak them under the table as secondary legislation, the Lords would indeed not have been able to stop them without breaching constitutional convention. Which just goes to show it doesn’t always pay to be a weasel.
Osborne is hoist by his own petard.
Aah, Tories say. But there is another convention that the Lords do not block secondary legislation.
They are making that one up. There is no such constitutional convention and there are plenty of examples of the Lords blocking secondary legislation. There is a huge quantity of secondary legislation, thousands and thousands of laws – ministers continually are signing off legal changes.
But the entire basis of the secondary legislation is that parliament has delegated to ministers, in Acts, powers to sign off uncontroversial matter. This can be, for example, the detail of regulations needed technically to enforce primary legislation, and the occasional updates needed. Only a very low percentage indeed of secondary legislation ever gets queried by the Lords, but that is not because of a constitutional convention. That is because most of it is dull stuff. But when the government abuses its authority and tries to smuggle vital changes through secondary legislation, the Lords not only has the constitutional right to challenge this abuse, it has the constitutional duty to do so.
I wish they would do it more often. For example, when the Labour Party used Westminster secondary legislation to cede 6,000 square miles of Scotland’s sea to England without parliamentary scrutiny.
Finally, there is a constitutional convention that the Lords do not oppose manifesto commitments on which a government has been elected. But the Tories rather carefully did not put tax credit cuts in their manifesto, and indeed in campaigning said they would not do it.
The British constitution is appallingly undemocratic. The fact that an undemocratic chamber has fended off a proposal from an undemocratic executive which gained the votes of only 37% of the voting electors, is not a blow struck for democracy. It is however a temporary victory for human decency in mitigating an attack on the poor.
It is also an achievement for Jeremy Corbyn. Nobody can truly believe that Labour peers would have been organised to do this under Yvette Cooper or Liz Kendall.
UPDATE Wings Over Scotland has a very different take on the Labour Party performance. That the Labour Party was not radical enough to go for the “fatal” option I am afraid I find unsurprising. It remains a deeply conservative institution. But I had not previously encountered the argument that 90% would lose the money from universal credit anyway, and it is stunningly cynical. But on close consideration, I cannot work out what it means. Either there must be some additional cut to universal credit, or that those who lost tax credit could have regained it on universal credit anyway. If anybody could explain that one further, I should be grateful.
@ and for Brian to feast his eyes. Who knows, Ba’al might want to have a peek and see why wing chun works well.
Thanks for the great Haiko’s Brian and Ba’al. Here is my mornings creation. Just cycled to the shop and back….
Brown red autumn leaves tumblin’
windy rain ooze through Mac stitching,
dripping on my cycling brain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f7td8Hc-V4
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jU8B6eNm2zs
second link is missing the ‘h’ from its ‘ttp’ sorry.
Hieroglyph, if you are into science, I highly recommend you read Dr Michio Kaku, an ex-student of Einstein if I remember. Or watch him on youtube–lots of stuff out there.
In fact, I plan to sign up to something I just stumbled upon caled Curiosity Channel. Anyone here any experience of it? Btw, I do strongly recommend Kaku’s books to you. They are riveting. The copy-paster specialists on this ‘channel’ should take note!
On Krishnamurti, its good to be skeptical. Put all the c;iches aside and find out for yourself! K was once asked the question ‘Who are you?
Here’s his answer, recorded in * minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G-7-ZiiM-o
Skeptics should also watch his interview by Bernard Levin–29 minutes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bJ0W-BfEc0
Poor folk are strangled
by the garters in a twist;
their cries unheeded.
Rose are you sure you have read (and understood) Craig’s post/the ‘news’?
I see the great satans are gathering for hallowe’en in Vienna. Saudi Arabia Turkey US UK IS Iran to eat vampire pie: Syria Iraq Yemen Somalia Palestine Libya Lebanon.
Trick or treat. All satans’ treats are tricks anyway. If you send aid to Turkey it will feed only IS jahili-jihadis/stupid porn and pill popping madmen, not Syrians. The ghouls have to disappear back to their graves by 00.00 Saturday to let Russia carry on wiping out the Daesh dervish-divi-demons.
Thank God someone in the world has still got some sense.
The Scottish Conservative Party has been forced to cancel a meeting in Ayrshire after police said they could not guarantee their safety.
http://www.pressreader.com/uk/scottish-daily-mail/20151030/281608124299076/TextView
Scottish Labour meet in Perth. All seems peaceful.
Jeremy Corbyn backs calls for Scottish Labour to vote against Trident nuclear renewal
Scottish Labour, who suffered devastating losses at the general election, is set to decide whether to discuss the renewal of Britain’s nuclear deterrent system
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-backs-calls-for-scottish-labour-to-vote-against-trident-nuclear-renewal-a6714571.html
A big thank you to all from this site who signed the petition to have trans woman Tara Hudson transferred from a male prison to a female prison. Sadly, the latest news is that her appeal has unfortunately been rejected:(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34675778
So I guess that as far as the prison service, Ministry of Justice and our beloved Tory government are concerned, they’ll see fit to just have to put up with another few months of being harassed by guys constantly demanding to “see her t*ts”! I hope to goodness nothing worse happens to her.
As you were saying Giyane. ‘Regime change’ as it’s called is what they want…Iraq, Libya, Syria….
Politics Extension of US-led War on Syria
Finian Cunningham
October 30, 2015 “Information Clearing House” –
full text on
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1446201867.html
Stop that!
The only reason the US and the cat’s paw Saudi pederasts are sitting at the same table as Iranians and Russians, is because their mercenaries fighting their dirty wart in Syria are comprehensively beat!
Turkey and her leadership will soon find why the lost their empire to begin with, playing hotshots needs a lot of brain power that simply Turks lack!
Don’t you love the Permanent Arbitration Court in The Hague ruling that China has a case to answer over Philippino complaints about what Beijing is claiming, and doing in the Spratly Islands, though the court is a creation of when European states were struggling for imperial holdings, Western-controlled states like Thailand and Japan have observers attending the tribunals hearings, and China, though not not a member – like Indonesia and Brunei – is being kept informed of developments despite its absence.
Talk about kangaroo courts, especial when Manila was goaded into making its complaints after the country was devastated by Cyclone Haiyan!
They don’t quite say it-
without the slightest effort-
those old haiku poets.
Speaking today at the Parliament and Internet Conference, Andrew Gould, deputy head of the Met’s cyber crime and fraud team (FALCON), spoke of his distaste for the term Snoopers’ Charter which he said he found “offensive”
according to The Register, who noticed that the term Snoopers’ Charter was coined in HoC 1965 by Sir Hamilton Kerr
from http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=1965-05-24a.40.1&s=snoopers+charter#g105.2
but that was a long time ago. . .
unfortunately The Register goes on to mention that Theresa May has opted to ignore an independent review panels recommendation on THE SNOOPER’S CHARTER, and hence will not let the power to block snooping anywhere near the judiciary
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/29/ministers_not_judges_to_sign_off_on_surveillance_investigatory_powers_bill/
haiku on snoopin
frozen lives
crims win
poopin’ snoopin’ stupendously duping
toffs are quadruplin’ pain
for rich banks wretched ilks gain.
welcome back Shaker Ahmed, we thought we’ll never see you again.
Europe’s next wave of refugees from fighting/immigrants are from Afghanistan. Thanks to all those who are still fighting there, Europe’s population is booming.
Here our demography will leave us with 1 in 12 being over 80 in ten years time. The 10 million extra population will be filled with Chinese students/ businessmen/ workers, can’t think why any Afghans would want to come here, but if they do…..
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/crisis-in-aghanistan-leads-wave-of-migrants-to-head-to-europe-a-1059919.html
Does anyone know what this “tara hudson” chachter is in jail for?
The fashionable politics running a mock about a thug who has learned to kick the crap out of innocent people and walk away from the after math of facing any retribution.
Nicely played out by the medjia though, while the world is falling apart there are those who are concerned for the “human rights” of “tara” the thug! all the while Shaker Aamar facing torture and fourteen years of incarceration in a horrid concentration camp, seems to have his “human rights” looked after by the racist and supremacists asking the gubminet to send him back to Saudi!!!!!
Fedup
30/10/2015 3:18pm
No problem with her being sentenced to gaol. Do you think there are no women in women’s prisons serving time for assault and battery?
She should be in a women’s prison. And she should be compensating the poor bar owner, if these are the facts.
And there’s no contradiction between seeking a just result for this woman and a just result for Shaker Aamar.
Kind regards,
John
Regarding the disabled, and those with mental health problems, who’ve been demonised by this Tory government, so much so that many haven taken their own lives.
The dehumising narrative put forward by this Tory government towards the disabled, and backed up by right wing newspapers and media channels such as Channel 5 and the Daily Mail, are aimed at turning the working sector of society against the mentally ill and the disabled.
The most common line of attack by the DWP is that the disabled and mentally ill are spending your taxes, and it needs to be reduced,but,what most people don’t realise is that this kind of insidious demonisation of the disabled and mentally can be traced back to the Nazi’s.
No I’m not saying that IDS or David Cameron intents to wheel any disabled or mentally ill folk into gas chambers, but the same propaganda used by Hitler’s party on the disabled and mentally ill is being used today, to turn the working section of society against them.
Remember David Cameron doesn’t want to publish figures of how many disabled or mentally ill folk have died, not long after having their benefits removed. The Nazi’s used a propaganda technique to demonise the disabled, called Action T4.
Action T4 claimed that more people could be housed and fed, if X amount of monies were not spent on the disabled and mentally ill. The constant propaganda worked and the working section of society turned against the less fortunate.
The parallels regarding propaganda are their for all to see, Hitler’s hench men went on to murder the disabled and mentally ill. Today the same people are committing suicide after having their benefits removed, like mentally ill Michael O’Sullivan, whom the coroner directly linked his death to his benefits being stopped by the DWP.
Disabled and mentally ill people fear that if the ECHR, is removed and replaced with a British Bill of Rights, that their rights could be fatally infringed, and the smear campaign conducted against them by the Tories and the right wing press, could intensify, leading to the deaths of more disabled and mentally ill people.
“Hieroglyph, if you are into science, I highly recommend you read Dr Michio Kaku, an ex-student of Einstein if I remember. Or watch him on youtube–lots of stuff out there.”
Hieroglyph Better still, read PHYSICS. WITHOUT EINSTEIN. BY. HAROLD ASPDEN.
Einstein did not come up with E=mc Squared, it was Oliver Heaviside including others.
http://www.aetherscience.org/www-aspden-org/books/pwecent/pwecent2005.pdf
John Spencer-Davis I like your style but we best agree to disagree on this issue, because I am as yet not convinced that “tara” is not playing up to the gallery*, fact that in any Women’s prison she would have an easier time is a pipe dream.
* had hoped her punishment would see her placed on an electronic tag and made to undergo an alcohol awareness course.
That is after only three weeks getting conditionally discharged on another assault.
I am not a fan of Soros and co instigated and inspired causes, replacing Hugues the odd ball!
The mass murding war criminals in Labour who voted yes to the genocide of Iraqi women and children, must be relieved to know the Chilcot report won’t be released before next years Scottish elections.
Thankfully the people of Scotland are wise enough already to see the insignificance of London Labour in Scotland.
So China’s economy is set to slow down over the next 15 years, due the impact of the one child policy. Apparently the work force is unsustainable, with over 440 million Chinese due to retire by 2030.
China has relaxed the one child policy, but many people are so used to that system, that they’re not going on to have a second child. The Chinese government are doing all they can to encourage people to have a second child.
Ironically the Tories in this country are pursuing a anti-family agenda, by imposing the two child Tax Credit system, which they hope will slow down population growth.
The UK however has an aging work force, and this incredible lack of foresight by Westminster, will lead to a ticking timebomb in years to come.
Yes Dave. A mindless war on cannabis is comparable to the idiocy of non-metaphorical war. And the same people wage it…..
On a somewhat lighter note.
From the English language edition of the Greek daily “Kathimerini”
++++++++++++++++++++++
“I don’t believe it was just me who felt as I did, so I’ll be honest: I was intensely embarrassed by the sight of Greece’s prime minister standing with his legs wide apart and his hands linked below his belt as the national anthems of Greece and France played during French President Francois Hollande’s visit to Greece last week at the wreath-laying ceremony at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Athens.
Hollande is standing to attention and looking serious, with the complete awareness that he is paying tribute to his host country’s history and tradition. Beside him, Alexis Tsipras looks just as I described him above. He also has an awkward smirk on his face, while the position of his hands is reminiscent of a soccer player protecting his delicate bits during a penalty shot.
I am poking fun simply to blunt the shame I felt. Yes, I know that this may seem exaggerated, but in the past few months I have often felt that same chagrin at the style adopted by Tsipras and his associates, and particularly when they are meeting foreign dignitaries and appear completely unaware of the fact that they are representing the entire country. Here’s another example: Standing beside Hollande in Parliament, House Speaker Nikos Voutsis looked like a taverna cook in his black, open-necked shirt.
Anyone who thinks I’m being old-fashioned or too conservative, consider this: How progressive can the prime minister of a country be when his manner of dress is so amateurishly casual? I can already hear SYRIZA supporters moaning that I’m about to go on about Tsipras’s aversion to ties. Yes, I will mention the tie because I can’t imagine that Tsipras still hasn’t realized that his counterparts feel insulted by his look even if they don’t mention it for reasons of propriety.
So let’s call it like it is and hopefully all those progressives who govern us will finally get it. Neckties were not established by the Greek right wing nor are they a whimsy of all the Western leaders who wear them. They are part of a dress code which, in turn, is part of international protocol. To put it simply enough that even Education Minister Nikos Filis, with his garish polo shirts and wrinkled jackets gets it, to international leaders, protocol is a code of communication. It is part of a series of rules on rudimentary manners and behavior, which all foreign officials take for granted, out of respect for the institution they serve and the citizens who elected them. Therefore, when Tsipras does not follow these rules, he appears nothing short of odd or ridiculous to his counterparts.
Just as he would obviously not wear white socks with black patent leather shoes because he knows it would be naff, so his counterparts look at him askance when he wears expensive suits with a dress shirt unbuttoned at the neck. Let him at least consider the various leaders who don’t/didn’t hold to the code. He’ll note that many of them are/were loons or dictators.
Let’s be serious. Tsipras should, finally, recognize the need to follow a few of the rudimentary rules dictated by his position. If he doesn’t know what they are, he should ask. When the national anthem plays, for example, you stand to attention. When you’re escorting a head of state, you don’t plant your defense minister next to him just because he’s your buddy. When your guest is making a public statement to the cameras, you don’t stand behind him looking bored or indifferent. And when you don’t speak a foreign language fluently, use an interpreter, particularly when addressing an international audience.
I would really like to believe that the 41-year-old prime minister has simply trapped himself behind a “revolutionary” look. But now that he’s realized that Europe is not about to change simply because he came to power, let him also understand that protocol is not a leftist or right-wing thing, but a common language shared by most of the world’s politicians. And when he does realize this, maybe he’ll tell his colleagues, so that Parliament stops looking like a taverna. Maybe they should start viewing the necktie as revolutionary. After all, it would shock the world and do nothing but good.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I suspect that not wearing a tie as a matter of principle is just a silly little effort to come across as a man of the people. A little like Harold Wilson claiming he preferred tinned salmon to smoked and “Tony” Benn (aka Anthony Wedgewood Benn) making a point of posing with a mug of .
These characters are, of course, rarely “of the people”.
Cameron didn’t have a tie on in Iceland and wears slip ons without socks.
RoS
I too would be in favour of very generous allowances for children either paid out as allowances or effected through deductions from income tax.
Such allowances should be tapered out when the parents’ income or combined income exceeds an amount to be determined.
To those (eg Glenn) who would object by saying that this would simply encourage people to have too many children I shoud nswer by saying that he should consider the idea that having many children is also a kind of successful and useful productive activity.
++++++++++++++++++
La vita e’bella, life is good!
Ken2
“Cameron didn’t have a tie on in Iceland”
____________________
Lighten up, Ken – in the spirit my post was intended 🙂
No need to be confrontational even if you are having bad hair day!
Action T4 was the progenitor of the Holocaust. After T4 was wound down in 1941 because of protests from church figures, notably Cardinal Galen (the project went on secretly), a lot of its staff was transferred to the Holocaust program, whose official name was Operation Reinhard. “The SS officers responsible for the Aktion T4, including Christian Wirth, Franz Stangl, and Irmfried Eberl, were all given key roles in the implementation of the “Final Solution” in 1942.” See Henry Friedlander, The Origins of Nazi Genocide. From Euthanasia to the Final Solution.
To filibuster – to impede legislation by irregular or obstructive tactics, especially by making long speeches.
I saw some of the farce that took place in the HoC this morning. At 9.46am a conscientious Labour MP Julie Cooper presented her Private Members Bill proposing that carers attending hospital with their charges or to visit them should be exempt from paying hospital car parking fees. She quoted her own experience of paying £40 a week to visit her mother (for whom she cared) in hospital.
Her speech lasted about 30 mins. Then at 10.05am Philip Davies, Jacob Rees Mogg, David Nuttall, Julian Knight, Christopher Chope and other nonentities best described as Conservative lobby fodder proceeded in turn to filibuster with the aim of talking out the second reading. It was obviously planned.
In the end, the debate was adjourned at 2.30pm, five hours later. It will resume on Monday but is probably lost.
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/
The Conservative social care minister Alistair Burt wound up at length.
The ploy was even noted by the BBC.
‘Social Care Minister Alistair Burt said local hospitals should make their own decisions but should try to reduce the “cost burden” on carers.
Mr Burt and backbench Conservative MPs made lengthy speeches in an attempt to kill Ms Cooper’s bill by using up the Commons time allotted to it, a tactic known as filibustering.
Philip Davies, who spoke for 90 minutes, said Labour MP Julie Cooper’s bill was “unnecessary” and his colleague, David Nuttall, warned it could divert money away from frontline NHS services.
Conservative MP Christopher Chope extended the Tory filibuster by more than 30 minutes with his speech saying the Labour MP’s plan would be difficult to police.’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34674272