The House of Lords broke no constitutional conventions in referring back Osborne’s vindictive tax credit cuts. The Tories and their media supporters are talking utter garbage on the question. Taking Britain’s appalling “constitution” for what it is, the arcane rules of procedure were not breached.
Ever since David Lloyd George and Herbert Asquith forced, by threat of massive creation of peerages, the 1911 Budget through and with it the start of National Insurance and the demise of the workhouse, there has been a convention that the Lords do not oppose or amend Finance Bills.
But the tax credit cuts were not in a Finance Bill. Osborne instead tried to sneak them through by statutory instrument. This is secondary legislation whereby a Minister signs off laws under powers delegated to him by primary legislation. Secondary legislation gets much less parliamentary time and committee scrutiny. If Osborne had put the tax credit proposals in a Finance Bill, as they certainly should have been – it is Osborne who was breaking parliamentary convention here – rather than sneak them under the table as secondary legislation, the Lords would indeed not have been able to stop them without breaching constitutional convention. Which just goes to show it doesn’t always pay to be a weasel.
Osborne is hoist by his own petard.
Aah, Tories say. But there is another convention that the Lords do not block secondary legislation.
They are making that one up. There is no such constitutional convention and there are plenty of examples of the Lords blocking secondary legislation. There is a huge quantity of secondary legislation, thousands and thousands of laws – ministers continually are signing off legal changes.
But the entire basis of the secondary legislation is that parliament has delegated to ministers, in Acts, powers to sign off uncontroversial matter. This can be, for example, the detail of regulations needed technically to enforce primary legislation, and the occasional updates needed. Only a very low percentage indeed of secondary legislation ever gets queried by the Lords, but that is not because of a constitutional convention. That is because most of it is dull stuff. But when the government abuses its authority and tries to smuggle vital changes through secondary legislation, the Lords not only has the constitutional right to challenge this abuse, it has the constitutional duty to do so.
I wish they would do it more often. For example, when the Labour Party used Westminster secondary legislation to cede 6,000 square miles of Scotland’s sea to England without parliamentary scrutiny.
Finally, there is a constitutional convention that the Lords do not oppose manifesto commitments on which a government has been elected. But the Tories rather carefully did not put tax credit cuts in their manifesto, and indeed in campaigning said they would not do it.
The British constitution is appallingly undemocratic. The fact that an undemocratic chamber has fended off a proposal from an undemocratic executive which gained the votes of only 37% of the voting electors, is not a blow struck for democracy. It is however a temporary victory for human decency in mitigating an attack on the poor.
It is also an achievement for Jeremy Corbyn. Nobody can truly believe that Labour peers would have been organised to do this under Yvette Cooper or Liz Kendall.
UPDATE Wings Over Scotland has a very different take on the Labour Party performance. That the Labour Party was not radical enough to go for the “fatal” option I am afraid I find unsurprising. It remains a deeply conservative institution. But I had not previously encountered the argument that 90% would lose the money from universal credit anyway, and it is stunningly cynical. But on close consideration, I cannot work out what it means. Either there must be some additional cut to universal credit, or that those who lost tax credit could have regained it on universal credit anyway. If anybody could explain that one further, I should be grateful.
(final section isn’t a quote – mistyped end-italics, evidently.)
It is a game of chess and the US is in check Fedup having lost a few moves. The US cryptocracy is gambling on screwing the Russian economy from keeping oil price held down and illegal sanctions on a WTO member.
US dignity has been trashed by the Russian game plan in Syria and that can lead to mistakes in US subterfuge as preeminence takes a hit and blood boils. You can only plan a certain number of moves ahead and US curveball is in a fog right now.
Well said Ba’al and a pleasant twist of the knife.
P Harry to meet Obomber. More plans for by displaying those injured in the coalition wars. They cannot display their victims though. Most have been dematerialized into the atmosphere via Hellfire missiles and the like.
Prince Harry to meet Barack Obama at White House
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34649863
The Warrior Games
The Invictus Games
https://invictusgamesfoundation.org/foundation/governance
Chairman Sir Keith Mills of Air Miles and Nectar loyalty card fame.
Lovely.
Lovely.
My potted history of Strathclyde Mark.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/10/garters-in-a-twist/comment-page-1/#comment-559220
@Fedup 11.06
The participants in the Golan Heights oil scam are Rothschild and Rupert Murdochs Company.
Genii Oil is the registered name I think.
Totally illegal obviously.Golan Heights are Syrian Sovereign territory, but such niceties never bothered Rupert or Rothshild.
Fedup @1106
More info on Golan Heights oil drilling
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/17031-israel-begins-drilling-for-oil-in-occupied-golan-heights
Maybe he[Lord Strathclyde] declined a comment on teenage sexuality and the ‘no sex’ rule in the Westminster college ‘parents, policies and guidance’ booklet Mary. I await his verbose summary of the Lords review.
Craig, sorry this is off-topic, but as you are a human rights activist I thought you might be interested in the above case (news links below). Tara Hudson is a 26 year old transsexual woman whose just been sentenced to 12 weeks for assault whom the Ministry of Justice headed by millionaire Tory Michael Gove have seen fit to send to a male prison to serve out her sentence. Most reasonable people believe that it would have been more appropriate to send her to a women’s prison as the MOJ’s decision puts her – as a woman thrown into a male-only prison – at a greatly increased chance of being raped.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/10/27/trans-womans-life-in-danger-after-being-sent-to-all-male-prison/
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/10/27/ministry-of-justice-declines-to-intervene-after-trans-woman-sent-to-male-prison/
If anyone wants to sign the petition to persuade the MOJ to send her to a female prison instead of a male prison here is a link to it below:
https://www.change.org/p/bath-magistrates-prison-govenor-of-hm-prison-bristol-british-judicial-system-stop-transgender-woman-tara-hudson-from-being-sent-to-an-all-male-prison-in-bristol?recruiter=3054452&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink
Thank you for taking time out to read my post. I also think that this case would make a worthwhile post on your blog as I’d be very interested to read your’s and your commenters opinions on this.
Does the well upholstered Lord Strathclyde meet all 39 criteria here?
Revealed: The 39 steps to being a modern gentleman
Listen up chaps, Country Life magazine has released a guide to being a gentleman in the modern age http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11958899/Revealed-The-39-steps-to-being-a-modern-gentleman.html
Lord Strathclyde: ‘When people look at me they see posh’
‘Would he have stood for election if the Lords was an elected chamber? “Gosh,” he fumbles. “Would I have done in the past? Possibly…”
He trails off in thought. “I’m not sure I would ever have made a good MP,” he continues. “But the House of Lords is wonderful. You may not get the same power and authority, but you do get to play a part… it doesn’t necessarily block or stop the machinery of government, but it influences the decisions that are made.”’
http://www.totalpolitics.com/articles/322527/lord-strathclyde-and39when-people-look-at-me-they-see-poshand39.thtml
http://www.totalpolitics.com/article_images/articledir_645/322527/1_articleimage.jpg
Droning on . . . (not about the secret MI5 drones) but those in the MENA
The Syrian army shot down nearly half a dozen spy drones of the foreign-backed terrorists in the Southern parts of the country on Tuesday.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940805001407
Iraq’s al-Hashid al-Shaabi volunteer forces shot down an ISIL spy drone in Salahuddin province.
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13940806000451
but luckily for freedom, the US is urgently shipping new drones, to Jordan
https://theweek.com/articles/585277/pentagon-rushes-tiny-spy-planes-jordan
The Hashemite Kingdom is currently home to a secretive American command post and the Air Force’s 407th Air Expeditionary Group
“After jettisoning the mysteries of Trinity as incomprehensible and before reverting to Islam, I was reading a US born, Eastern trained quack guru who maintained that it was only by having frequent sex with his female followers that he was prevented from drifting off into his elevated form in a higher sphere.
This put me off all Eastern religions for life, especially Sufism which uses the Eastern quack trick of placing the scholars on pedestals with special powers.”
________________
Indeed Giyane, you usually find the leader of sects and cults are, promiscuous controlling brainwashers.
Other characteristics attributed to them are intelligence, egotistical and extremely devious, no doubt the World Teacher (a egotistical attribution) Krishnamurti displayed some if not all of the above traits.
“Criticise any piece of Krishnamurti’s words, written or spoken and I shall join you. Adhere to your friend, the stoned Californian sage: Don’t shoot the messenger, deal with the message. If you are capable, try these extracts quoted in Zeitgeist, the movie:
” We were saying how very important it is to bring about, in the human mind, the radical revolution. The crisis is a crisis in consciousness, the crisis that cannot anymore accept the old norms, the old patterns, the ancient traditions and considering what the world is now, with all the misery, conflict, destructive brutality, aggression and so on. Man is still as he was, is still brutal, violent, aggressive, acquisitive, competitive and… he has built a society along these lines.”
_______________________
Save it for someone who’s interested Alcyone, I’m pretty sure most folk know what’s wrong with the world today. We dont need the rantings and raving of a charlatan guru, posing as a “World Teacher” dipping our pockets, whilst we listenen to his esoteric ramblings.
Helen Nearing found that out early on.
Six times Jeremy Corbyn asked David Cameron if he intended to proceed with cutting Tax Credits, at FMQ’s today. Six times David Cameron filibustered, and grand standed, without answering the question.
Now maybe I’m out of touch here, but isn’t FMQ’s, the chance for the nation to ask the PM questions concerning the country?, and aren’t we entitled to a straight answer from the PM?
The braying and brouhaha crowd,did their utmost to intimidate Corbyn, and more than onced, did the speaker need to intervene and calm things down.
Angus Robertson SNP MP, asked David Cameron when the governments report on the deaths of at least sixty people (directly due to benefit cuts) would be ready for the House to read.
The PM, virtually said, the report wouldn’t be released.
more guts for garters cult peddling, how insecure homo sapience has become.
Yes I watched PMQs too. Cameron was extremely arrogant and completely non-accountable. I reckon he is rehearsed and given a shot of testosterone beforehand.
The grinning Gidiot at his side was highly amused at his leader’s joke at the expense of the LDs in reply to Tim Farron.
‘The Prime Minister:
Let me again welcome the hon. Gentleman to his place, and it is good to see such a high turnout from his MPs.’
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/7/
I see that, like the HoL, they start off with prayers. To whom do they pray and who conducts them?
Mary the House of Lords has Spiritual Lords and Temporal Lords, the former are the clergy, the latter are everyone one else including heritable peers.
So it’s fair to say some bishop from the Church of England, does the honours.
As for who they pray too well, it’s obvious they pray to Mammon, the god of wealth and greed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Lords
“Adhere to your friend, the stoned Californian sage:,,”
Non-sequitr alert.
Article 55 of the United Nations Charter demands: Universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms for all, without distinction as to race, sex, language or religion.
Yet in diametrical opposition to these fine founding aspirations, the UN recently appointed Faisal Bin Hassan Trad, Saudi Arabia’s envoy to the UN Human Rights Council, as Chair of an influential human rights panel.
The appointment was seemingly made in June, but only came to light on 17 September, due to documents obtained by UN Watch.
Here’s what Hassan had to say:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-A_qmzfxp6P4/Via5_wvpLiI/AAAAAAAAaMU/XVYEGe4CQDI/s1600/saudi.jpg
“To whom do they pray and who conducts them?”
1) Presumably whichever God they believe in, and in the House of Commons it is the Speaker’s Chaplain, currently the Reverend Rose Hudson-Wilkin, that conducts the prayers.
2) Why does it matter to whom they pray to?
Starthclyde’s a Mammon man…
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/20d123d2-a51b-11e2-8777-00144feabdc0.html
Israel is paying the U.S. back for its support, in at least one way. BBC: US still isolated at UN General Assembly over Cuba embargo:
Last time, it wasn’t quite as lopsided. Three Pacific Island nations abstained, at least. This time, it was just Israel and the U.S.
One day the sanctions weapon will be turned full-bore against us, perhaps deservedly for the crimes we’ve allowed our rulers to get away with. We won’t last five minutes. We’d have to import everything from horse-shoes to wood, most would quickly starve.
Katie: (28 Oct, 2015 – 12:46 pm) Shocking case, the justice system hidebound and inflexible. I would guess whatever gender a person self-identifies as should be the determining factor in custody cases, and not requiring some sort of ‘sexing’ certificate and a £200 fee. Are mixed prisons the answer, or would they bring another set of insuperable difficulties? Don’t answer that, it would be rather diversionary, but in a better society than the one we unfortunately have at present, maybe yes. We could however consider banging up the House of Lords, after an intimate medical examination, and proof of their humanity, or luring them in with a greatly increased daily attendance fee, then locking them in and throwing away the key.
Letter To The Editor of The Daily Telegraph in Response To This (before I had even Read it – Cos I knew the Lies it Was Going To Say – and When I read it after writing and Posting this – it said Even Worse Than I Expected.)
“I have seen the horrors of Syria. This Friday we can end them
During heart-rending medical missions to Aleppo, I operated on the innocent victims of a war the West has failed to stop. This week’s peace conference must replace inaction with action”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11961574/I-have-seen-the-horrors-of-Syria.-This-Friday-we-can-end-them.html
“SIR,
Your editorial policy which is Full of American Neocon/CIA/NATO/Military Industrial Complex Outright Blatant LIES – Disgusts Me. You are Just a Foreign Pro-War Propaganda Organisation….so Please Don’t Try and Make My Heart Bleed with This…where Replies are Not Allowed…
“I have seen the horrors of Syria. This Friday we can end them”
“During heart-rending medical missions to Aleppo, I operated on the innocent
victims of a war the West has failed to stop. This week’s peace conference
must replace inaction with action”
THE WEST HAS FAILED TO STOP !!!!!
The West Started Them ALL…
Do Not Lie.”
Tony
On the standard of journalism in the internet world today, please read this FT article which is interesting of itself, but then look at the curious last paragraph.
“Diplomatic breakthrough made as Iran agrees to join Syria summit”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/79208a08-7d79-11e5-a1fe-567b37f80b64.html#axzz3pt1v1Cb6
Watch also the David Mliband video therein. Note Miliband’s hand movements, reminiscent of Blairite-hand-language. Its refreshing to see Jeremy Corbyn didn’t catch that trendy virus!
Mick: “2) Why does it matter to whom they pray to?”
If someone is deluded enough to have conversations with/ take advice from an invisible “friend”, shouldn’t we know some details about it – before they then make important decisions on our behalf concerning the running of the country?
Gove is being urged to change court fees system. So much for one of the dim Grayling’s wheezes.
Criminal courts charge denied compensation to rape victim, MPs told
Judge ‘deeply distressed’ after having to waive payout because defendant had nothing left after being hit with £900 bill http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/criminal-courts-charge-denied-compensation-to-rape-victim-mps-told-a6711221.html
Civil court fee hikes spell disaster for access to justice
23 Jan 2015 – ‘Court fee hikes introduced by the government spell disaster for access to justice, pricing the public out of the courts and leaving small businesses saddled with debts they are due but unable to afford to recover.
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/news/press-releases/civil-court-fee-hikes-spell-disaster-for-access-to-justice/
RoS Hammond is in Saudi Arabia. Any discussions on their brutal regime or is it still all about flogging them weaponry and aircraft?
#SheikhNimr: Hammond arrives in Saudi amid London embassy protests https://www.rt.com/uk/319975-sheikhnimr-hammond-saudi-protest/
Apologies for not posting for a couple of days; I have been attending a neocons Conference on Total World Domination and the Elimination of Dissent.
I may be posting in due course once I’ve read through and carefully considered the many posts on this thread.
Watch this space.
++++++++++++++++
PS – 25 “comments” from Mary, out of 143 (that’s about one sixth of all comments. Good to see there’s still life in the old girl!
Habbbakuk (Gaza healthier than Glasgow),
“I have been attending a neocons Conference on Total World Domination and the Elimination of Dissent.”
Please take a machine gun on your last day – and make Clark Happy.
Tony