Precisely why Russian action against Saudi Arabia’s proxy militias of fanatics is against western interests is something which nobody in the western elite seems to believe it is necessary to explain. That Russia is bad and evil and must be opposed is another one of those axiomatic beliefs of the governing elite, which they can’t bring themselves to believe the public do not wholeheartedly share. Equally they cannot quite understand why we the people do not see the necessity of backing the Saudi regime.
I am a stern critic of Russia’s democratic deficit, human rights record, and gangster dominated economy and government. But on all these counts it is still a thousand times better than Saudi Arabia, and I am quite certain that 99% of Europeans would be happier living in St Petersburg than Riyadh.
If the Russians turn back CIA and Saudi-backed rebels I for one shall be delighted.
Russian activity in Syria is nothing whatsoever to do with NATO. The Syrian rebels under attack by Russia are not members of NATO. Russia is not attacking Turkey and there is no chance whatsoever that Russia would deliberately attack Turkey. So the suggestion of NATO Secretary-General Stoltenberg that NATO will send forces to protect Southern Turkey is absolute madness. In the Iraq War, two of the United States “pinpoint accurate” cruise missiles aimed at Baghdad actually hit Syria. At some stage Russia is going to accidentally hit something in Turkey, it is the nature of war. It is like playing football in the garden – it is inevitable the ball will go over the neighbours’ fence at some stage, however careful you are.
Increasing the amount of military hardware in Turkey – which is already extremely militarised and already full of US forces – just increases the political temperature and chances of something going disastrously wrong, with no possible gain except making the stupid western countries who messed up the Middle East feel less envious of Putin.
NATO countries have caused the crisis in the Middle East through their disastrous and criminal invasions. Russia is not and could never be strong enough to launch an actual attack on western Europe even if Russia wanted to – which Russia most certainly does not. Just like Trident missiles, NATO was no use to the United States on 9/11 and is no use against any actual challenge we face in the world. It exists to perpetuate the dominance of a neo-con elite and ensure massive income to the arms industry.
NATO’s attempts to build up forces around Syria and around the Baltic show that NATO’s over-activity poses the only viable threat of a disastrous world war. Ask yourself this question. Why does the USA, a country which faces no risk of invasion from anybody, account for 44% of the military spending of the whole world? NATO exists solely for client states to assist the projection of US military power abroad. Every decent European should be campaigning for their country to leave NATO.
There is a petition at Change.Org to prosecute Obama and Cameron for unlawfully bombing Syria.
If you agree with that goal, please sign! It hasn’t had many signatures yet, so needs your support. Please also spread the news about it on Twitter, Facebook and other social media – thanks!
Wow N_ That was some sitrep for which thanks and thanks also to Craig for the post.
Andrew… what you’re saying falls apart when you say
“even though Churchill/Attlee and Roosevelt/Truman had explicitly agreed to Soviet control of eastern Europe”
Not freedom is it? Being controlled by another country.
If you were one of the Baltic states you really wouldn’t want to leave NATO and risk becoming annexed. At the very least “controlled”. I doubt many of their citizens… certainly not the non-native-Russian-speaking ones… will be heeding Craig’s call.
Aside from anything else, surely everyone knows by now that invading Russia is a truly terrible idea?
I’ve said it before, the MSM is just background noise. I simply no longer pay attention to the propaganda. However, I suppose even the sceptical can’t avoid it entirely, due it’s 24/7 insidiousness, it’s constant mind-games, and forever lies. It’s kind of the like sibilant voice in the head of a paranoid schizophrenic; always talking, always saying bad things, almost impossible to ignore. Is there some sort of antidote to Big Media? One can only hope.
These neocons are lunatics, and the good people of the US really have to get rid.
@Je
“A lot of Ukrainians really wish they’d joined NATO. Then Russia wouldn’t have been able to slice off Crimea, and so on.”
I’m not sure whether this is your own view or one that you are ironically attributing to Ukrainians who wish the Ukraine had joined NATO, but Russia was always going to get Crimea. Russia would never have allowed the US army to reach Donetsk and the US navy to get to Sevastopol. That is part of the strategic background to the whole sequence of events in the Ukraine.
@Tom Welsh
“Surgical strikes“, “FIVE METRES” – nope! In war something always fucks up. If the Russian raids and cruise attacks continue, something Russian will cross the Turkish border again, even if it’s not a cruise missile.
Indeed, invading Russia really IS a horrible idea. I’m just now reading Nicholas Stargardt’s new book The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-1945, which has harrowing descriptions of the conditions German soldiers faced on the Eastern Front.
“In the Iraq War, two of the United States “pinpoint accurate” cruise missiles aimed at Baghdad actually hit Syria. At some stage Russia is going to accidentally hit something in Turkey, it is the nature of war. It is like playing football in the garden – it is inevitable the ball will go over the neighbours’ fence at some stage, however careful you are.”
Well, yes, genuine mistakes do happen. But not as frequently as they did in the US/UK invasion of Iraq by Tony Blair and George W. Bush, the acting wooden-top puppets. In involving NATO (and non-North Atlantic) countries to support their warmongering efforts to depose the head of state, Saddam, to create ‘regime change’ they put together a phrase “Coalition of the willing” and backed it up with other catchphrases of the nature: “You’re either with us or not.”
I quite like Andrew Korybko’s articles. He was educated at, I think, Harvard, and writes in English better than most natives. This is hot-off-the-press and fits in quite well with the topic. Instead of a coalition of anyone willing to kill Iraqis to steal their oil and other resources, Andrew talks about a “Coalition of the righteous”. In a way I think some of the phraseology of Russia today is a getting a bit messianic with ‘coalition of the righteous’, and operation ‘Salvation’. Nonetheless, it fits my belief, and this is a good article in the spirit of my faith.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-new-middle-east-russian-style/5480575
Just a small observation: for NATO to locate its Cooperative Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence in Estonia seems insane: a silly gesture, made in response to the 2007 attacks. They could have put it in Belgium or wherever, but to put it in Estonia must have provoked some smiles in Russia!
The KGB – oops, there I go again! I mean the FSB and FSR – have enormous influence in that country. They had far better info than western agencies did, for obvious reasons, on the up-and-coming personalities 25 years ago and they kept their edge. And their influence isn’t only strong among Russian citizens of that country (and Russians denied citizenship) either, but also among Estonian Estonians. E.g. Edgar Savisaar, the former mayor of Tallinn – recently suspended from office on corruption allegations – is well known to be, shall we say, close to Moscow.
Perhaps Craig might wish to explain how what Russia is doing in Syria is good for the 60%plus Sunni population of Syria – who my guess is see little future for themselves in a Syria run by Assad assisted by thugs from Hezbollah and Iran, and the vast majority of whom probably have little time for the extremism of ISIS either. Perhaps a little focus as to what is good for ordinary people of Syria -rather than defining a position against Saudi Arabia or supporting Putin in propping up another of his puppets is called for.
There will be no chance whatsoever of stability in Syria unless the views of its Sunni population are taken into account.
N
“I don’t know whether you will agree with me on that last point, Craig, but if your reaction is sceptical, please consider that the CIA and MI6 psy-ops against Russia have come to practically fuck-all. (I actually thought they might, back in 2012, but close study showed how mistaken that view was.) At Vauxhall Cross they may enjoy the tits-out actions of Femen, and the low-church types may even enjoy the gyrations of Pussy Riot in St Basil’s, but you should see how youths in the motherland respond to the playing of the Russian national anthem at pop and rock concerts. The morale in Russia is far higher than it’s been in the US or Britain not just for years but for two or three generations at least.
It’s also clear that in psy-ops and intelligence the advantage lies with Russia, not NATO.”
…………
Yours is an interesting post, but I don’t see how singing the national anthem at pop and rock concerts could be said to equate to high morale…brain washing yes.
Maybe its different though if its at the footie or rugby?
“Don’t be stupid. NATO and Russia both put out absolutely identical propaganda about how clinical and infallibly targeted their air strikes are. Both are lying.”
There are currently reports of Russian missiles from the Caspian Sea hitting Iran if only to demonstrate this point.
Robert Minton
” since the start of the 2014 Russian military intervention in Ukraine, public support for Ukrainian membership in NATO has risen greatly. In June 2014, nearly 50% of those asked voice support; in an October 2014 poll this number had risen to over 50%”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
” If a referendum were held this year on joining NATO, 64% of the citizens (of those voting) would vote for joining the North Atlantic Treaty Alliance.”
http://euromaidanpress.com/2015/08/15/the-growing-support-for-nato-membership-in-ukraine/
LOL ! The Turks based their claim on Alexandretta (Hatay) on the ludicrous belief that they are the descendants of the ancient Hittites ! I think they have moved on since, and now acknowledge their Mongol ancestry, and accept that as a people they only moved into Asia Minor & the ME, in the early Middle Ages, relative very late late-comers. They also have more recent form when it comes to killing Syrians, as many Christian Syrians constituted many of the victims of the Assyrian Genocide.
I find the Turkish complaints about violations of their airspace totally surreal, as they routinely violate Syrian, Greek & Cypriot airspaces on a very frequent basis.
N
Are you serious about war as opposed to a cold war?
I see how Russia prefers the dramatic gesture to incremental creeping disposition, but I don’t see why either side would want a NATO V Russia war. America too likes the big gesture.
Why do wars happen:
accident?
to get out of an economic hell hole?
some other reason?
“Russia has created a Frankenstein in the region which it will not be able to control,” warned a senior Qatari source. “With the call to jihad things will change. Everyone will go to fight. Even Muslims who sit in bars. There are 1.5 billion Muslims. Imagine what will happen if 1% of them join.”
No, that Frankenstein was created by Saudi-Arabia, Gulf states and NATO members, it’s called ISIS.
““We’ve seen increasingly unprofessional behaviour from Russian forces. They violated Turkish airspace ” This jackass bleats.
Can’t really compare Russian professionalism to NATO professionalism? NATO only went and armed and trained the most extreme jihadis alive today, you can’t be any more unprofessional. That’s not mentioning NATO’s previous actions which have only made things worse not better.
What a lot of hot hypocritical air, it stinks like happy hour in a whore house!!
Reply Report
To feed the moon?
It’s getting harder and harder for Turkey and the Saudis to pretend that they are not invading Syria (using Islamist proxies, especially IS(IS)(IL)(IC)Daesh) for their own interests. I’ve no doubt that the US has armed and trained so called “moderate rebels” Meanwhile, the Turks, Saudis, and Gulf states have in all likelihood trained, armed, and financed many thousands more.
This is, and never was a Syrian uprising. It is a foreign assault on a sovereign nation, abetted by NATO.
Does anyone still believe the ‘Good Rebels’, if Assad falls, will for even a week withstand the IS(IS)(IL)(IC)Daesh forces who behead, murder, or massacre everyone who disagrees with them, and destroy all culture and civilization they encounter?
Je
I don’t doubt your stat on Ukrainian desires. As I have frequently explained, in three years Putin has gone from a situation when all of Ukraine was very connected to Russia, to a situation where three quarters of the Ukraine is completely alienated from Russia. Why Putinistas feel that is a victory I know not.
I don’t know much about Russian military history, but generally speaking when a clever country like Russia is kicking off and show casing its weaponry is probably not when it wishes to actually engage in a major war. Its more likely a broad brush stroke to reposition itself generally locally and internationally, seize misc. collateral gains and perhaps most importantly in this case to change the oil and commodity trend from falling prices to rising prices.
NATO is also likely to know this, but also not want to lose face, local gains, international prestige and all the other stuff. Whether NATO countries really want oil and commodity prices to continue falling is unclear to me and probably unclear to them. America maybe. Britain probably not.
So I conclude that there may be a boring driver to this: gas, oil and metals.
Maybe some danger that there could be an accidental escalation.
And there is a big danger for everyone in the immediate area.
Craig,
You are:-
” I am a stern critic of Russia’s democratic deficit, human rights record, and gangster dominated economy and government”
Well let me tell you – I am a stern observer of Britain’s double standards when it comes to the city of London; wars; and indeed the question of democracy – in snuggling up to dictators who serve UK interest and disposing of those who don’t play ball. Well – welcome to Iraq and Libya. Syria – are you waiting?
http://www.pambazuka.net/en/category.php/features/95671
Your friend and fellow blogger.
Courtenay
Resident Dissident@10-48pm “There will be no chance whatsoever of stability in Syria unless the views of its Sunni population are taken into account”. The Majority of the Syrian army are Sunni, if that was not the case Syria would have fallen long ago. The Sunni majority just like the minority communities fear the head choppers, for they know that any deviance from the hard line jihadi ideology means instant death. A couple of years ago in the Doha debates [no friends of Assad] a poll revealed 55% support for Assad. then in a difficult election last year Assad received 78% of the vote. This vote was monitored and found to be fair by 30 countries. In every town that is liberated by the Syrian army, the people come out and support Assad, he clearly has popular support. Back in 2007 Seymour Hersh published a paper [the Redirection] in which George Bush made the decision to back the Sunni Dictators against the so called ‘Arc of extremism’ Iran, Syria, Iraq and Hezbollah. That is what is playing out right now, with the so called ‘Arc’ winning hands down, [with the help of Russia]. The US are losing the middle east, that is why they are squawking.
Best I’ve read on this blog in a long time.
As things move on rather rapidly from the base topic to other
connected things I thought the links below would be more or less on topic
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/317804-isis-turkey-jet-russia/
https://www.rt.com/news/316705-china-syria-isis-fight/
I can’t find more detail to this at a later date.
Finally one slightly different but involving the same people
in a conflict of vested interests shrouded in greed and blood.
http://qz.com/127258/why-china-just-bought-one-twentieth-of-ukraine/
Just a bubble or a scam but could be genuine and quietly dropped after a word in an
ear by you-know-who.
And a little more Ukraine:
http://youtu.be/14f6Myygrk0
Keiser Report: Ukraine’s Big Oil & Big Angst (E590)April 19,2014.
American big business.
Start at 12 mins.35 secs.
Known by all from the free press I expect.
Turkey was suppose to be protecting the Syrian enclave in its neighborhood, hence the minimal activities of Syrian air force in that area. Russian pilots can drill an extra orifice for any wannabe Turkish/Nato et al pilot whom takes off to attack them. Look at the history of wars of Nato, US et al. These have always been against weak dysfunctional and falling apart in the seams countries that did not offer any resistance.
As the great thirty three day war of zionistan on Lebanon showed! The zionistani tanks were scurrying around like drunk cockroaches in a bottle! In fact in the view of the TV cameras these were being attacked in an area which was suppose to have been cleansed!!! For the duration of that war the whole of the zionistan came to a halt. The billionaire owners of zionistan in diaspora were funding the tents and food provision for the refugees whom did not have access to bomb shelters to live on the beaches!!!!
The crack team of zionistani thugs in uniform were dispatched to pick up Nasrallah the toy seller! Just a sign to validate the accuracy of their signals and intelligence!!!
The fact is there are those whom believe Russia is a pushover, and the benign conduct of Russian politicians to date have further reinforced the false narrative that Russia is a push over. In fact the same mindset helped Napoleon to get stuffed, and Hitler to end up with his mustache on fire.
Syria was supposed to have been finished years ago, and it has not. The machination of the US et al have come to zilch and now there is definite set back and retreat, hang on til the shit starts hitting the fan properly.
Saudi have been threatening the Russians with fire and brimstone, ie Chechen Islamist repeat, hence the US threats. However, why should the new Russian resolve not extend to protecting the Houthis in Yemen and ensuring that there is a Shia uprising in Saudi?
That stinking kingdom is already filled with foreigners ie more than 4o percent are foreigners residing there, and these will soon get out of Dodge leaving the Saudi royal pederasts at the mercy of their oppressed and subjugated populace. It is doable and pretty much easy. The degrees of suppression and mayhem in the land of Hijaz has only restrengthened the resolve of the oppressed, and the latest omens are foretelling of the fall of the rotten house of Saud.
Putin sat on his hands and did nothing! He should have come out guns blazing a long time ago, in fact back in 2003, when US nearly came a cropper in Iraq.
Putin is paying for his mistakes, the bastards who are gaming the system, have been far too reliant on others playing the game as per the rules, whilst these bastards have kicked the game board into the air and let the lord decide where the bits of kaleidoscope will land!!!!
Ashton Carter said “that Russian missiles had been fired without giving notice to other states in the region and came within a few miles of hitting a US drone over Syrian airspace.” But the Russian missiles flew over Iran and Iraq who have an operations room in Baghdad with the Russians. The US drone was illegally in Syrian airspace, but I forgot, the US are above International law, and think they can do as they please. Thankfully the Russians are disabusing them of that [we are the exceptional Nation] notion/delusion.
“In the Iraq War, two of the United States “pinpoint accurate” cruise missiles aimed at Baghdad actually hit Syria.” It says. I have just looked at the map and found that from baghdad to the nearest point on the Syrian border is about 207 miles! Okay, I was never stupid enough to believe the pin-point-accuracy nonsense but an error of 200+ miles! I could fire a cork out of my arse from London and do better than that 😉
Bert.
My comment on Zionism and Rothchild’s role in the terrorism of the Israeli state and their transnational hegemony has been taken down. This is dangerous and sickening political correctness. Let’s not worry that the Rothchilds were behind the murderous Bolshevic regime and Stalin which were responsible for 60 million deaths. Or funded the fascists as well including both sides of most wars seen in the last two centuries. Let’s not talk about that incase people think we are being ‘Anti Semitic’ ………sigh. The Ashkenazi Jews aren’t even Semitic. I had hope that this blog and Craig Murray was made of more moral fibre than this. It seems not
“Isn’t the legitimate NATO concern one of Russian influence over Syria Iran and Iraq?”
It is hard to believe that US foreign policies in the past few years have not been designed to drive Russia, Iran, Iraq, Syria and China together. Unless of course one understands that US foreign policies have no purposes beyond domestic partisan politics and sustaining the MIC’s transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
International ramifications are a total surprise in Washington where America is considered to be exempt from international laws but from all laws, rules and consequences whatever.
And in this irrationality, its ‘allies’ simply encourage it, in some cases out of idiocy, in others because they are afraid to offend but most often because they are on the payroll.
Several commenters above have mentioned the CNN and BBC reports that Russian four missiles have “crashed” in Iran. The Russians have denied this and produced evidence that they track their missiles in real time and none have gone off course. More importantly for those sceptical of Russian claims, the Iranians have denied that any Russian missiles have landed in their territory. They ought to know. The CNN and BBC claims seem more likely to be part of the huge propaganda war that the western media is raging against Russia, not least because the recent Russian actions have exposed western hypocrisy to a remarkable degree.
A little mentioned aspect of the Russian missiles is that western intelligence appears surprised at their range, being significantly greater than previously believed. This is not the end of what, for the west, will be a series of nasty surprises.