I am an unrepentant enthusiast for the European Union, indeed a European Federalist. I think the freedoms of movement of people and goods within the EU are the most profound political achievement of my lifetime, and have made the world a very much better place.
I am therefore flabbergasted by the group of unpleasant elitist bastards who apparently will lead the pro-EU campaign for the referendum. How could anybody wishing to win a vote believe that a Board including Peter Mandelson and Danny Alexander is going to help? While the appointment of Lord Rose seems to confirm belief in the “Michelle Mone theory”, that selling knickers grants universal expertise.
Most egregious of all, the Executive Director is Will Straw, whose main qualification is that his father is a war criminal. Founder of the rabid anti-Corbyn website Left Foot Forward and every bit as Atlanticist as Liam Fox, Will Straw is as insanely pro-United States hegemony and as ultra-Zionist as only an extreme Blairite can be. He really is a deeply unappealing figure.
I have no doubt they will be flooded with corporate money. But what I want to know is this. If this referendum is supposed to be a democratic exercise, where every citizen is equal, what grants this self-serving sample of the metropolitan elite the right to nominate themselves as the In campaign? I don’t see how any decent person can have anything to do with them. Having had a lot of respect for Caroline Lucas, I must say if she really is going to work alongside Will Straw then my respect for her is going to plummet.
“When put to her, Malmström acknowledged that a trade deal has never inspired such passionate and widespread opposition. Yet when I asked the trade commissioner how she could continue her persistent promotion of the deal in the face of such massive public opposition, her response came back icy cold: “I do not take my mandate from the European people.””
Well that’s pretty clear…
“I am therefore flabbergasted by the group of unpleasant elitist bastards who apparently will lead the pro-EU campaign for the referendum”.
But don’t you see, Craig, that the EU is a magnet for unpleasant elitist bastards, and that’s why those people are so keen to keep Britain in the EU? Just look at the people in Brussels/Strasbourg – commissioners, civil servants, most of the politicians – and say with your hand on your heart that they aren’t unpleasant elitist bastards.
I agree that the idea of European unity is marvellous, but the political reality is that it’s all ruined by the kind of people who are attracted to such an enormous centre of power. Here are two essential quotations from Lord Acton:
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it”.
“Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice: nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity”.
For nearly 200 years the US federal government has increasingly showcased those evils, and since its inception the EU has been catching up hand over fist. There is simply too much power and money in a single place for anything innocent or decent to survive. That’s why we have to escape while we can – once our armed forces are taken away and merged into European forces, we won’t be allowed to.
Who in their right mind would appoint “deal in the desert” Mandelson to any board let alone one with such a significance as this one, has it been set up to deliberately fail?
Mind you Danny Alexander isn’t any better, after accepting £50,000 quid from a convicted tax dodger, to boost his chances of holding his constituency seat,Alexander still received a thrashing at the polls.
Then we come to Will Straw, son of notorious Jack Straw, wasn’t Will Straw cautioned by police at one point for drug dealing.
To me anyway this motely crew set up to keep Britain in the EU, appears at first glance rushed and incoherent or not very well thought out.
I have very little confidence, in this lot, something that wont be lost on David Cameron, and with TTIP waiting patiently in the wings to enter the fray, (backhanders ready to be paid out) don’t be too surprised if the pro -Europe campaign loses.
Still the upside is Scotland would all but be assured independence.
A separate link to the Board in case it gets lost in the live links on the Guardian page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2015/oct/12/stuart-rose-launches-pro-eu-campaign-britain-stronger-in-europe-politics-live#block-561b6a74e4b0e02051d2ad33
A motley crew.
Jude Kelly of the South Bank (on the board above) was very active in Common Purpose.
http://www.cpexposed.com/latest-news/common-purpose-trustees-try-challenge-criticism-general-public
Considerable sums of money left local authorities, county councils, LEAs, companies, the BBC, the NHS, the police, charities etc to fund the scam. Employees were sent on courses for indoctrination.
This is a list of those who went through the system. 376 pages!
http://www.cpexposed.com/graduates
See Leveson Inquiry Controversy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Purpose_UK
Not sure if CP is still operating. Has the dosh run out?
@republic of scotland
‘Still the upside is Scotland would all but be assured independence.’
Independence from what?
The way I see it, the corporations and banks would take over Scotland, England, UK, Europe, whatever.
Are we all on the same page about what would happen to the internet under the T-treaty trinity?
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/10/final-leaked-tpp-text-all-we-feared
“Independence from what?”
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Mog, independent from Westminster, Scotland has a parliament that functions perfectly well without the debt ridden Westminster parliament’s interference.
Norway and Switzerland do well for many reasons.
Norway has the oil from the same trench as Scotland and is Neutral, without a massive military expenditure. Scotland could have had the same wealth and conditions as Norway if our oil and Independence was not been stolen from us.
Switzerland has all the hidden money from everywhere. Clever eh?.
“Norway and Switzerland cope as they are part of EEA….so are well embedded in EU structures around freedom of movement and trade….They however don’t get a vote”
It was freedom of movement and trade that Craig thought was the great acheivement. Frustrated as they must be at not having a vote, neither has quite got round to joining. At least they’ve saved themselves the rather steep membership fees.
I’m shocked there are still people who support the fascistic tool of the corporate elite, namely the EU. I’m surprise you like it Craig. Were you a supporter of the adoption of the Euro currency way back? Are you still?
The EU will impoverish this country, remember that. It has already changed certain areas beyond recognition, it has put huge strains upon local services, until we leave things will only get worse.
It is a fat lumbering undemocratic, bureaucratic economic disaster, that will have the exact opposite effect to what it claimed it was set up for. Impoverishment and war, in that order, will be it’s legacy, you want that?
Naturally the PC jackbooters here will accuse me of racism for telling the blunt truth about unrestricted immigration. After 30 million more come to these shores the same fools will come round to my way of thinking.
They will try to come out with the laughable claim it has economic benefits for the common man with it’s 1% grown rates and close to 1% interest rates. lol!
Last time interest rates were this low Hitler was bombing London, try to remember that.
Also remember I did tell you I had money on Scotland staying in the UK, called a fool for it, but I got paid for being right, like I said I would. I’m just as right about the EU.
An imposition nobody asked for that subsidies the rich and makes the (indigenous)poor poorer. The big corporations and rich landowners make out like bandits from it while the small players, the truly productive, get crushed by it’s relentless and usually plainly absurd regulations.
It is a political experiment that is failing before our eyes, yet people are still falling for the propaganda that is spewed out by the corporate media in support of it.
Cammy
“Norway and Switzerland cope as they are part of EEA….so are well embedded in EU structures around freedom of movement and trade….They however don’t get a vote”
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Tewibbly sorry to disappoint you, old bean, but Switzerland is not in the EEA.
@ republic of scotland
‘Mog, independent from Westminster, Scotland has a parliament that functions perfectly well without the debt ridden Westminster parliament’s interference.’
I am all for Scotland ruling its own affairs if it so chooses, but it is the private debt of its citizens and businesses not the public debt of the UK gov that present the bigger hurdle in that respect.
My point was that national government is fast becoming an irrelevance in the face of consolidated power of transnational corporations and ‘the market’.
‘This is the ultimate privatisation- that of policy making itself’
http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/entry/revealed-how-corporations-captured-our-democracy?utm_content=buffer4e8c1&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
The attempt to kill labor unions has been quite successful as in Wisconsin a formerly Blue State in the US.
http://www.epi.org/blog/naftas-impact-workers/
“The North American Free Trade Agreement (NATFA) was the door through which American workers were shoved into the neoliberal global labor market.
By establishing the principle that U.S. corporations could relocate production elsewhere and sell back into the United States, NAFTA undercut the bargaining power of American workers, which had driven the expansion of the middle class since the end of World War II. The result has been 20 years of stagnant wages and the upward redistribution of income, wealth and political power.
NAFTA affected U.S. workers in four principal ways. First, it caused the loss of some 700,000 jobs as production moved to Mexico. Most of these losses came in California, Texas, Michigan, and other states where manufacturing is concentrated. To be sure, there were some job gains along the border in service and retail sectors resulting from increased trucking activity, but these gains are small in relation to the loses, and are in lower paying occupations. The vast majority of workers who lost jobs from NAFTA suffered a permanent loss of income.
Fred
“They will try to come out with the laughable claim it has economic benefits for the common man with it’s 1% grown rates and close to 1% interest rates. lol!
Last time interest rates were this low Hitler was bombing London, try to remember that.”
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Bank rate was maintained at 2% from 1940 to 1950, which is four times higher than today’s 0,5% minimum lending rate.
So the expression “as low as this” is sloppy.
Re the rest of your post, my advice would be to stick to matters Scottish, where you sometimes talk sense.
“Iam all for Scotland ruling its own affairs if it so chooses, but it is the private debt of its citizens and businesses not the public debt of the UK gov that present the bigger hurdle in that respect.
My point was that national government is fast becoming an irrelevance in the face of consolidated power of transnational corporations and ‘the market’.”
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Mog I understand where you’re coming from globalisation transnational companies TTIP etc, but in Scotland it’s a case of lets not run before we can walk.
Meaning independence will allow Scotland to make its own decisions, of course big business and capitalism and lobbying will happen,with a bit more intensity in an independent Scotland, it already goes on just now.
But independence has more upsides than down sides.
Fred the Crofter
“The big corporations and rich landowners make out like bandits from it while the small players, the truly productive, get crushed by it’s relentless and usually plainly absurd regulations.”
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To my suspicious ear it sounds as if you’re complaining about your personal situation.
Remember: it was your choice and the world does not owe you a living.
The Referendum is a Tory rescue scam — to rescue them from each other. DON’T JOIN. Look what happened to Scottish Labour — Darling and Brown were taken for idiots. The Lib-Dems are equally stuffed by contagion with toxic Tories.
No, leave the Tories to fight it out amongst themselves. The Big Money will be wheeled out to brainwash the Sheeple into voting ‘stay’.
(I too am an ardent pro-European, but I won’t be campaigning to save those Bullingdon boys!)
The fact that TPP and TTIP are coming into being perhaps gives some indication of how far the corporate coup d’etat has gone.
And I will remind folks that Europe is the most blood-soaked continent on Earth, and what we now call the European Union came into being primarily to prevent further wars. It’s been successful in that for the last 60 years; indeed, it’s brought European citizens to the point where wars between individual nations would now be unthinkable.
RepublicOfScotland: “Then we come to Will Straw, son of notorious Jack Straw, wasn’t Will Straw cautioned by police at one point for drug dealing.”
In fairness, he got stung by a couple of slappers from The Mirror (IIRC), who urged him to procure some of the Merry-Jew-Waaners for them, since it really “got them going”, know what I mean, nudge-nudge, wink, wink. So he “scores” from some likely geezer in the same pub where these tarted-up reporters have put them up to it, and -BANG- gets reported on, nailed as if he were a dealer.
Surprised you’re happy to go along with a cheap gotcha operation like that, RoS, regardless of what you think of him or Straw senior.
The EU does have its down sides, coporate cronyism, backhanding lobbyists, laws and rules that sometimes appear vague and quite frankly strange when applied across the plethora of EU nations.
But 4.2 millions British jobs rely on exports to the EU, and at the most recent account, £211 billion pounds is added to the British economy through EU trade.
Income from exports to other member states was worth £3,500 per head of the population in 2011.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/03/31/eu-exports-jobs_n_5061398.html
~~~~~I will remind folks that Europe is the most blood-soaked continent on Earth, and what we now call the European Union came into being primarily to prevent further wars. It’s been successful in that for the last 60 years; indeed, it’s brought European citizens to the point where wars between individual nations would now be unthinkable.~~~~~
Ahem! Ireland, Yugoslavia….
I wouldn’t worry. It’s hard to see Out winning, not with the two main UK political parties and the SNP all likely to support staying in, coupled with people’s natural fear of change and plenty of latent support for the EU. The media and polls will suggest a close race, of course, to keep the readers and voters interested, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 75% to stay in.
Crosby
Don’t be silly.
Former Yugoslavia was not in the European Union and the troubles in Northern Ireland were an inter-British phenomenon qnd not a wae between two EU Member States.
Ahem! indeed.
..and not a war…
Mary
What do you think of the EU? Would you like to see the UK stay in or leave?
Same question to Mr Goss.
Would the retard pretending to be me kindly fuck off and die.
I notice there have been a few comments along the lines of “I used to be for the EU but what it did to Greece has made me change my mind”.
Those comments are arguably misleading and certainly very ignorant.
Greece’s financial difficulties were not caused by the EU (it managed them all by itself)to and without the EU Greece would have gone bankrupt (as had already occurred twice in its modern history).
K Crosby, granted, but I should point out that an estimated 60 million people died in World War 2, and the vast majority of them died in Europe (more than one third of those 60 million, some 26 million, died in the former USSR alone). These numbers dwarf anything that happened during the ‘Troubles’, or indeed the death toll in former Yugoslavia, which came about because of the break-up of the USSR.
The break-up of the USSR could have led to WW3, and one could argue that it was the existence of the EEC/EU that made it a relatively peaceful transition.
Alas, the American military industrial complex always needs an enemy, to justify taking 60 cents out of every American tax dollar, and so we find ourselves in today’s situation.
Yes, the EU is a neo-liberal nightmare, corrupt, filled with Goldman Sachs bankers, needlessly attacks the poor (Greece), while the central bank dilutes the currency at the bidding of the Federal Reserve.
But is the UK any different?
At least the EU is not a monarchy!
The solution has to be to resolve the problems while staying inside Europe (even though this is a tall order).
I think the YES movement has to have its own campaign. If Scotland voted 80% for staying in the UK, while England was even in a slight majority to leave, this would truly be a constitutional crisis that could spark indy.*
I just hope the SNP are canny enough to avoid all association with this reptilian pro-EU bunch. Caroline Lucas would do better to campaign for the EU as part of the Progressive Alliance, not with war criminals and similar sleaze.
I will be voting to stay, but only because I believe in Europe, not necessarily the EU.
Although I will say this: One thing I am glad about in this union where what Germany wants, Germany gets, is the situation with regard to the refugees. This is one situation where I am glad Germany has the power of veto over everyone else, especially such disgusting specimens as Orban and, yes, even Cameron.
* Personally, I think Glasgow and Clydeside should have declared UDI a year ago and asked to be incorporated into Eire (Dundee – Norway!). Why do we have to stay together with the Morningside crowd, with whom we will NEVER see eye to eye, in the globalised world of the 21st century? The Scots would only be going “home” anyway…
Bloody hell, Habba and I seem to be agreeing with each other.
I need to go and lay in a darkened room…