The right to self-determination of the people of Scotland is not in dispute. That right is enshrined in Article 1.2 of the Charter of the United Nations. Which peoples qualify to benefit from that right is a frequent subject of dispute, but the case of Scotland has been conclusively conceded by the government of the UK in agreeing to the 2014 Independence referendum and agreeing to abide by the result.
The people of Scotland thus have multiple citizenships. They are citizens of Scotland, and of two over-arching bodies, of the United Kingdom and of the European Union. Both UK and EU citizenship are very real, with EU citizenship in particular conferring a wide range of individual rights to the citizen enshrined in numerous international treaties. This dual citizenship is reflected on your passport. On both the cover and the inside page, it says European Union above United Kingdom.
This raises the question of what happens if the people of Scotland, with their right of self determination, experience an unwilling conflict between the two superior citizenships. This will arise if the United Kingdom votes to leave the European Union while Scotland votes to remain in. The situation of conflict will be that a self-determining people will have voted in referenda to retain two overarching citizenships, but by force majeure be able to retain only one of them.
The position in international law given this outcome is absolutely clear. Being unable to follow both results of referenda of the Scottish people, Scotland through its government will have the right to determine which citizenship to retain. EU citizenship is arguably the superior citizenship, conferring much wider rights.
There is in any event no requirement in international law for a referendum on Independence before you declare Independence. In fact, the majority of nations in this world only became independent in my own lifetime, and over 90% of those became independent without a referendum.
In the event that Scotland votes Remain and the UK votes Leave, the SNP government which I hope and expect again to see at Holyrood should immediately make a Declaration of Independence to maintain the individual citizenry rights of Scots to EU citizenship. This is perfectly legal in international law and will, beyond any doubt, be welcomed by the large majority of states of the European Union who will welcome the decision of Scots to remain members.
As somebody who worked professionally for nearly four years on EU enlargement, it always scunners me that it is so little understood that the entire political mood and dynamic of the EU is expansionist. It seeks as a matter of principle to incorporate all Europeans. That is why Romania and Bulgaria were accepted with an analysis everyone knew to be farcical that they conformed to the acquis communitaire. The departure of any country, even the awkward England and Wales, will be seen as a tragedy and the adherence of Scotland will be a matter of rejoicing. Even Spain will be reconciled because the circumstance of the UK leaving the EU gives a plausible unique factor that is not a precedent for Catalonia.
Within the SNP, perhaps understandably the focus tends to be on the internal UK constitutional and political scene. This is actually an error. The Independence of any Nation is above all a matter of international law, and the test of Independence is recognition of the world’s other states and acceptance into international institutions, above all the United Nations. The success of a Declaration of Independence will rest in its acceptance in Brussels and New York, not its acceptance in Westminster.
Cameron will get nothing substantive from his EU renegotiation. He is not liked by other European leaders. Eastern Europeans, in particular, can recognise a snob who looks down his nose at them when they see one. I speak from certain knowledge – more than one Eastern European minister involved has told me so. It shows how low Cameron has sunk, that a minute circulating yesterday in the Cabinet Office described the atmosphere in the immediate aftermath of the Paris attacks as an “opportunity” to gain concessions on freedom of movement.
There is no gamechanger coming from Cameron’s “renegotiation” that will materially affect the dynamics of the EU referendum campaign, and opinion polls indicate that the UK leaving and Scotland voting to remain is a very probable outcome. The Scottish government should be starting now to make preparations for declaring Independence immediately in the event of such a result. Top priority in those preparations should be discussions in Brussels and EU capitals with all EU states to prepare them for such an event and garner discreet assurances. The Scottish Government is of course prohibited from such lobbying, but the SNP is not. I for one will offer my services without charge.
Good luck with getting all loved up with the EU. If the munificent EU is not careful it is going to preside over an EU wide civil war. Even if it is careful it will remain on its knees worshipping at the alter of US hegemonic power. At a minimum this will mean that the EU is required to pretty much constantly irritate Russia – a policy that has worked oh so well in the past.
Betting on Brexit
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
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Scotland Bill: Peers want to halt legislation until fiscal rules are agreed
1 hour ago
The House of Lords is currently scrutinising the details of the Scotland Bill
A House of Lords committee has called for the Scotland Bill to be put on hold until rules on new tax and spending powers are clarified.
The Economic Affairs Committee said more detail was needed on the fiscal framework, still to be finalised.
The legislation is due for its second reading in the Lords on 24 November.
The UK government said discussions on the fiscal framework were constructive and both sides aimed to complete them “as soon as possible”.
But Scotland’s Finance Secretary John Swinney said the Scottish government would only approve the bill if it had a “fair fiscal framework agreement”.
/..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34870354
Sounds excellent except for the fact that it would involve the SNP formulating a forward strategy and I for one will not be holding my breath waiting for one to appear
“The right to self-determination of the people of Scotland is not in dispute.”
So how come the Nationalists keep disputing our right to be part of Britain? We determined to remain part of Britain by referendum. Isn’t it time Nationalists stopped behaving like spoilt brats who couldn’t get their own way.
I wonder how many SNP members have been boycotting the BBC this morning.
Now that SNP top advisor Alex Bell has told the truth and blown the economic case for independence right out of the water I’m wondering if action will be brought against the Scottish government for deliberately misleading the people of Scotland in their white paper.
I’m wondering if action will be brought against the Scottish government for deliberately misleading the people of Scotland in their white paper.
The UK government being whiter than white in the area of misleading the public….sanctimonious hypocrite.
“sanctimonious hypocrite”
Natzy retard.
SNP Regards Syria…Bomb away.. We Don’t think so… It’s a Sabotage of some sort. What else ? Broken Hearte’d AGAIN
What we need now is another Scotland UN committee working in New York and Brussels now to secure this. I really hope that the SNP will take you you up on your offer Craig.
Fred
20 Nov, 2015 – 10:14 am
““sanctimonious hypocrite”
Natzy retard.”
LOL!
But really … just six comments in … it usually takes at least 24 hours for things to degenerate this far!
I think it will be great for Scotland (and a disaster for Westminster) when the Scots get their independence.
And that’s all I have to say on the matter. I’m staying out of this one.
What a great asset the SNP forfeited when they rejected you as a candidate for Westminster.
A political party is only as good as the elected officials & their advisers. Unfortunately, in spite of the huge surge in membership with the attendant huge surge in party finances, the SNP vigorously fended off new blood from branch level upwards so the vast majority of candidates were those groomed from youth, the sons & daughters & cronies of long standing SNP officials, & so on. At heart the SNP remains the narrow minded inward looking right wing nationalist movement it has always been with unimaginative and self serving elected officials intent on preserving their positions even though most are hopelessly out of their depths intellectually & politically.
Sometimes it seems to me that the SNP is not really interested in independence or any of the other vote winning policies they lay claim to.
I predict that never in a million years will the SNP risk going against their masters in Westminster and actually seriously trying to obtain independence. My guess is that Westminster gave Scotland permission to hold a referendum provided they didn’t actually win. My suspicion is that they were in fact colluding in the mutually beneficial agenda of destroying Labour.
What do think the outcome will be if the overall vote is to remain and the England vote is for exit?
The Talk War..So Many of Are GONE
Who Else Craig….. ? And Don’t Fuck Me over Aboot Dots….
The EU is in the process of disintegrating, The Schengen Agreement of free movement has already been suspended.
The EU monetary system is unworkable and is failing,It has produced failed economies in Ireland .Portugal,Italy ,Spain ,Greece and Cyprus. No assistance came from the ECB, but rather plunder and extortion of the resources and debt servitude of the citizen.
Scotland can only ever be free if it has its own SOVEREIGN currency which will make it free to manage its economy and create employment.
Kilts,bagpipes and haggis do not make a Nation. Practicalities of Economics are the foremost requirements for the welfare of the citizens.
Unfortunately the majority of politicians are economically illiterate,especially when it comes to monetary systems.
Those who control the creation of money, control the power in a Nation.
If you are searching for the meaning of life, you should know it lies south of the border for you. Its Providence that’s preventing you from being parochial, salvation and destiny may lie in engaging the Beast from London, with an eye even on the European Champions League, Scotland has its competent squad.
Prophet Volodya needs followers, or they will succeed in another al-Ghouta this time. You can see how they have ganged up on Jesus Corbyn, the virulent witch kuennsberg seems to have experience in doing exactly the same hatchet job on the Son of Man from her past life !!
Those who control the creation of money, control the power in a Nation.
….and those nations who control their own money won’t for long.
Celia Fitzgerald, 20 Nov, 2015 – 11:32 am
As a life long Nationalist I fear that there may be truth in what you say.
Remember how they put words in the mouth of the UK popular Nicola Sturgeon, saying that Miliband was not PM material.
If the SNP fight in the referendum to stay in Europe, will they just be fighting for Scotland to stay in and telling the English and Welsh to leave? I don’t think so.
I don’t think the real powers that be want the UK out of Europe, could the SNP be instrumental in them having their way?
I am bemused by the idea that Scotland’s population would benefit much from EU membership. The more remote the centres of power become from the people, the more vulnerable it seems to be to usurpation by the financial and corporate elites. I thought this was one of the principal arguments used by those wishing an independent Scotland – that the remote power of Westminster was insensitive to the needs of Scotland. I wonder why the fate of Scotland in the EU would be any different from that of Greece once the likes of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan have syphoned the nation’s remaining wealth into their copious coffers.
Node Izat Your Own
“I thought this was one of the principal arguments used by those wishing an independent Scotland – that the remote power of Westminster was insensitive to the needs of Scotland.”
In reality the remote power of Edinburgh is far more insensitive than Westminster ever was.
Just this morning in the P&J how the SNP are forcing an alien culture on the people of Aberdeen.
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeenshire/756602/gaelic-language-diktat-imposed-after-ferocious-council-row/
We’ve had armed police patrolling our streets, not armed response teams, bobbies on the beat with pistols strapped on their belts in full view to intimidate in towns with some of the lowest gun crime in Britain.
Izwot My Own?
Another possible outcome of the EU referendum is that the UK remains in the EU but by just a whisker, and when the sums are done it will show that England voted out (for example out 51%- in 49%)but Scotland voted in (lets say out 35% – in 65%)thus our friends south of the border will have been forced to remain in the EU by the Scottish Vote. I’m not sure the mainly right wing English press will be too happy with our union then?
“Independence By 2016!”
If the Scots wanted independence they would have achieved it in 2014. They didn’t.
I think it would be quite amusing if they held another referendum but rephrased the question:
“Do you think Scotland should remain part of United Kingdom?”
Thank Then Node . Loved That.
Thanks
The UK government would never have agreed to a EU referendum unless it was 100% the result would be to stay in. This can be achieved through pre-referendum propaganda through blanket use of media, manipulating the opinion polls and then rigging the votes. The only point of the referendum is its use by the government to get concessions from Brussels.
All very good except the SNP need a mandate which currently they do not have.
If Scotland really wants independence, it should complain about being most vulnerable to nuclear annihilation when London and Washington hoped to catch Moscow by surprise when Sweden;s PM Olof Palme was assassination back in February 1986, and it only didn’t happen because it was so reckless that even Jonathan Pollard, who was finally been released today after 30 years in federal prison, helped tip off Moscow about what was afoot.
Scotland would have been obliterated because the USSR had 82 nuclear-armed SS-23 missiles that the cocky Brits had never spotted during their BRIXMIS missions in East Germany.
Fred : Just this morning in the P&J ….
…. or to put it another way …..
The Press & Journal reported 2 months ago that a compromise deal had been reached in which a maximum of £15K (not £305K) would be spent on Gaelic. However, when the decision was formalised yesterday, the P&J reported it as though the £305K option was still being considered because it gave them the opportunity use words like “diktat” and ” outrage” and quote rabid Tory councillors. Then Fred seizes the opportunity to promote this blatant misrepresentation of the facts and weighs in with “forcing an alien culture on the people of Aberdeen”.
North east man lost at sea …. P&J …. selective reporting …. Fred …. pattern emerging …..