The right to self-determination of the people of Scotland is not in dispute. That right is enshrined in Article 1.2 of the Charter of the United Nations. Which peoples qualify to benefit from that right is a frequent subject of dispute, but the case of Scotland has been conclusively conceded by the government of the UK in agreeing to the 2014 Independence referendum and agreeing to abide by the result.
The people of Scotland thus have multiple citizenships. They are citizens of Scotland, and of two over-arching bodies, of the United Kingdom and of the European Union. Both UK and EU citizenship are very real, with EU citizenship in particular conferring a wide range of individual rights to the citizen enshrined in numerous international treaties. This dual citizenship is reflected on your passport. On both the cover and the inside page, it says European Union above United Kingdom.
This raises the question of what happens if the people of Scotland, with their right of self determination, experience an unwilling conflict between the two superior citizenships. This will arise if the United Kingdom votes to leave the European Union while Scotland votes to remain in. The situation of conflict will be that a self-determining people will have voted in referenda to retain two overarching citizenships, but by force majeure be able to retain only one of them.
The position in international law given this outcome is absolutely clear. Being unable to follow both results of referenda of the Scottish people, Scotland through its government will have the right to determine which citizenship to retain. EU citizenship is arguably the superior citizenship, conferring much wider rights.
There is in any event no requirement in international law for a referendum on Independence before you declare Independence. In fact, the majority of nations in this world only became independent in my own lifetime, and over 90% of those became independent without a referendum.
In the event that Scotland votes Remain and the UK votes Leave, the SNP government which I hope and expect again to see at Holyrood should immediately make a Declaration of Independence to maintain the individual citizenry rights of Scots to EU citizenship. This is perfectly legal in international law and will, beyond any doubt, be welcomed by the large majority of states of the European Union who will welcome the decision of Scots to remain members.
As somebody who worked professionally for nearly four years on EU enlargement, it always scunners me that it is so little understood that the entire political mood and dynamic of the EU is expansionist. It seeks as a matter of principle to incorporate all Europeans. That is why Romania and Bulgaria were accepted with an analysis everyone knew to be farcical that they conformed to the acquis communitaire. The departure of any country, even the awkward England and Wales, will be seen as a tragedy and the adherence of Scotland will be a matter of rejoicing. Even Spain will be reconciled because the circumstance of the UK leaving the EU gives a plausible unique factor that is not a precedent for Catalonia.
Within the SNP, perhaps understandably the focus tends to be on the internal UK constitutional and political scene. This is actually an error. The Independence of any Nation is above all a matter of international law, and the test of Independence is recognition of the world’s other states and acceptance into international institutions, above all the United Nations. The success of a Declaration of Independence will rest in its acceptance in Brussels and New York, not its acceptance in Westminster.
Cameron will get nothing substantive from his EU renegotiation. He is not liked by other European leaders. Eastern Europeans, in particular, can recognise a snob who looks down his nose at them when they see one. I speak from certain knowledge – more than one Eastern European minister involved has told me so. It shows how low Cameron has sunk, that a minute circulating yesterday in the Cabinet Office described the atmosphere in the immediate aftermath of the Paris attacks as an “opportunity” to gain concessions on freedom of movement.
There is no gamechanger coming from Cameron’s “renegotiation” that will materially affect the dynamics of the EU referendum campaign, and opinion polls indicate that the UK leaving and Scotland voting to remain is a very probable outcome. The Scottish government should be starting now to make preparations for declaring Independence immediately in the event of such a result. Top priority in those preparations should be discussions in Brussels and EU capitals with all EU states to prepare them for such an event and garner discreet assurances. The Scottish Government is of course prohibited from such lobbying, but the SNP is not. I for one will offer my services without charge.
” why did the Soviets deny that the INF agreement covered the existence of the SS-23s ”
The SS-23 was covered by the INF and at 480 km their range is not far off the 500 km lower limit of the INF.
Wy don’t you come up with some facts for a change?
” Norway has to trade with the EU under commercial guides, but has no say on EU policies. ”
Just like the rest of the world then.
60% are not against another Independence Referendum. Support is now 50/50, increasing. It is suggested that the Polls should be at 60% of support before another Referendum is considered, to Win. 70% are in favour of more powers. 56 out of 59 MP’ were elected in the GE. If 16/17 year olds were allowed to vote it would have been 59. 16/17 year olds allowed to vote in the Referendum.
Salford lad, tony m
Complete aggreement, the EU is a menace and its only attraction is that you might not get completely fucked as long you go along with it’s ferris wheel outlook.
You will.
” The country’s oil fund — which collects taxes from oil profits and invests the money, mostly in stocks — exceeded 5.11 trillion crowns ($905 billion) in value this week, making it worth a million crowns per person, or about $177,000 per Norwegian. ”
As it’s Norway’s pension fund that’s not particularly impressive. In the UK you’d need £220,000 to provide a pension equivalent to the minimum wage. Transferred to the UK the fund would provide about £10,000 per person.
Thanks Ken2, there’s (of course) not much accurate Poll data on the broadcast news.
I just noticed another spoof website, ready prepared for the EngWales-combo post-accidental leave?
https://www.nationstates.net/nation=engwales
this very much made up website claims that EngWales : well, it’s so stupid I’ll quote a bit – it’ll stop Kempe from trying to defend the price of Whiskey in Oslo, every-time I visit the university there I’m required to smuggle as much hard liquor in as I can fit in my suitcase, and that’s just for the head of Department.
. . . hmmm, well in a decade or so post-accidental exit, when the EU data pipes have been re-plumbed to avoid Albion, EngWales food is banned from world-exports following the nuclear maintenance incidents, EngWales financial wizards have all been jailed in Lichtenstein . . then who knows if EngWalesian children won’t mostly survive by cutting each-others hair – or by selling each-other lemonade?
The EU members have a say on trade guides. Large market 500Million people. Free movement of trade and workers. The EU can negotiate better trade deal from a position of strength with large continents. India, China, Japan and the US. Stop trade barriers.
Eurozone has shared currency it is easier to trade without red tape. Currency changes, charges and fees. It costs the UK £Billions in currency exchanges, bank charges and fees to trade.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2015/nov/19/steve-bell-david-cameron-personal-jet-cartoon
Norway controls the drinks trade for health reasons. The government took the decision to improve health. It worked they drink less because the price is high. Taxes. They sometimes brew their own. Sweden and Finland did the same.They once had a poor health record, high rates of heart attacks etc. Their health care is very good. Finland now has the most healthy, diet/health records in the world. They do have.a high suicide record. Depession. No light?
Steve Bell is a joke
Four US drone operators responsible for Obama’s extra judicial assassinations become whistleblowers. An indictment of a very evil administration. They seem to be broken by their work.
Former Drone Operators Say They Were “Horrified” By Cruelty of Assassination Program
Murtaza Hussain
Nov. 19 2015
https://theintercept.com/2015/11/19/former-drone-operators-say-they-were-horrified-by-cruelty-of-assassination-program/
(Glenn Greenwald’s website)
The Oil Fund is not a pension fund. It is an(Gov) investment fund. One if the largest investment funds in the world. It can be used for investment infrastructure. Gaining more profits. Pension Funds are separate.
It means everyone in Norway is a kroner? Millionaire. Worth £500Million. pop 5Million People. It was a conscious decision not to use it for routine gov expenditure but as an investment fund.
You, Kempe, are still repeating the alleged short range of the SS-23s, though acting as if kilometers are the same as miles.
If the missile could not even hit England, why would Urban write this:”Fortunately for Nato, the Kremlin had no intention of firing the SS-23s in Germany.” (p. 80)
The closest Nato countries to East Germany were Holland and the UK.
And I am relying upon Urban, a much more informed, known researcher than anonymous you.
Ken2: “They do have.a high suicide record. Depession. No light?”
No – not enough booze.
btw – £500M between 5M people is about £100/person – not exactly a fortune. Sure you’re not out by three orders of magnitude?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7449797.stm
Independence 2016 !!! Going by the above ‘ shocking ‘ news story from a few years back about the secret plot to turn Scotland into a ‘ Sharia State ‘ the risks aren’t worth it . How soon before Glasgow becomes the new Raqqa ?
Do ISIS have their own tartan yet ? Will men be forced to cover their knees with floor length kilts ? Beware , terror lurks everywhere . Would Rab C Nesbitt be tempted towards ‘ radicalization ‘ ?
Kempe – “As it’s Norway’s pension fund that’s not particularly impressive. In the UK you’d need £220,000 to provide a pension equivalent to the minimum wage. Transferred to the UK the fund would provide about £10,000 per person.”
THEIRS $905b plus fund of sovereign investments vs OURS $3000b minus of national debt
Bwahahaha, pure yiddish, its classic Judge Hellerstein!!
> There is no gamechanger coming from Cameron’s “renegotiation”
Agreed, it’s pure theatre.
> the UK leaving and Scotland voting to remain is a very probable
> outcome
You mean we might be rid of both the EU *and* the whining,
English-money-taking Scots? Stop raising my hopes!
No, that’s not in the script. The English electorate is sufficiently
stupid that they will vote as they’re told. For a long time yet, it
will remain England and not the EU that you blame for your problems
while taking their cash.
“Do ISIS have their own tartan yet ?”
Oh yes IS (Independent Scotland) have a tartan and a black flag.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siol_nan_Gaidheal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_MacRae#Life
Fred 9.38pm
Thanks for link . I know little about current Scottish politics and see a character named Willie MacRae who died in ‘ strange circumstances ‘ is linked via your link to this organisation . My post however that prompted yours states in his ‘ life ‘ section on Wikipedia shows a non cited link to Israel with a claim 3000 trees in Israel were planted in his memory . A quick Google search repeats the claims with apparently a reference to a play that toured Scotland called ‘ 3000 Trees ‘ in 2015.
Is there any truth in these claims ? Why does a jokey post about ‘ ISIS Tartan ‘ bring us back to Israel on a thread on Scottish Independence ?
Can anyone provide any info on these uncited links?
OT: need some clarification
http://news.yahoo.com/un-unanimously-approves-necessary-measures-fight-224112891.html;_ylt=AwrC1jG6ok9Wh1AAxTnQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByOHZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg–
‘UN Security Council unanimously approves “necessary” measures to fight ISIS’ – does this mean that the UK gov’t will now say that the UN has sanctioned airstrikes, etc. in Syria, or is there a further UN step to go before that would be approved? Does this mean Salmond and Sturgeon could go ahead with Cammie’s wanting to join the Big Boys’ Bombers’ Club, because the UN says it’s cool?
I came across something emanating from the EU to commend. The 2012-ish introduced classification system for tyres, comparative ratings for wet-weather performance, noise and fuel-economy was sorely needed, useful for the (few) customers interested enough to take the trouble.
But this is small stuff, standards testing is evolutionary rather revolutionary, incremental gains, things we’d have arrived at ourselves, insisted on. Compelling manufacturers to submit their products to testing, to reject or accept, encourage or discourage, even prohibit if harmful, their sale and use, is the unglamourous side of government. The grave concerns are the big things, the terrifying vaulting ambition for despotic and bullying leverage and power, the blind eye to corporate malfeasance, the revolving door between business and bureaucracy and the moral-defective sorts slithering their way to lucrative niches on and atop this pyramid of power, around its base a vast graveyard where principles are forever interred.
Can’t help noticing the page title and header is Independence by 2016, but the page name and its url is https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/11/independence-by-2018/
Independence now, if not sooner.
“There is no game changer coming from Cameron’s “renegotiation”
No, off course not because he goes about it like a bull in a china shop, i.e. look at my wants and needs….when everyone in Europe is rather busy with registering the refugees he helped to create, no thanks there.
So, if this Syrian passport is genuine, the guy slipped in because Europe is in turmoil due to the pressure on some, then its down to those who don’t want to pull their weight, after leadership was shown to all, well, Britain does it for the camera’s alone, seemingly going through the motions, wow housed five Syrian families.
And how many billions have flowed into tax havens since apprentice Osborne announced his cuts charter? Was he told to lay of regulating this pirate territory? In turn, does this make him more ferocious, more cut happy?
Should Cameron shut up and quietly open the borders to receive a certain amount of refugees, showing some collective compassion, then that might credit him with some support for his aims and objectives, but all he produces are selfish whiny noises for this, that or t’other, achieving absolutely nothing, zilch, nada, to endear any of his rather busy EU partners, bless them, wouldn’t they wish to have a relationship with Britain as the EU enclave of Israel/ Palestine enjoys.
‘So how about changing tack, David, you did it with Assad and ISIS, do not pursue the arms dealers feverish wishes for war! but initiate a cease fire and a comprehensively agreed plan for a transition of Syria to democratic control. How about opening the border to refugees for an ordered registration and subsequent help. Would these measures not create far more safety than bombing those few who could not flee beforehand, are too elderly or don’t want to flee. ‘
The advantages of a cease fire are,
that the communications start giving you leads, people relax.
that you see vital logistical supplies being delivered, pep pills by Saudi princes, munitions from us and others, staff exchanges and subsequent discoveries of resting places.
it would free up time to interfere with the oil transports and other money making activities such as kissing the arse of another Saudi prince, robbing banks, extortion, kidnap, all the crimes a large international crime syndicate undertakes.
The seizure of 2 tons of Captagon in Beirut on board a private Saudi plane makes it obvious to me that drug trafficking is also a vice of N/ISIS.
So, hey David, dude, try not listening to the 1922 committee and improve the safety of the British public without bombing.
Stolen Futures – One-way love – The Hidden Toll of Child Casualties in Syria –
Military action is inherently dangerous to those targeted. To think that military planners can exclude civilians from targets is a fallacy. Weapons may be smarter now than ever before but military and leadership assets are often deliberately sited in urban and residential areas. Even in the most rural areas, data suggests that US drone attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan still kill many civilians. Such ‘collateral’ casualties also inspire retaliation and radicalization in cycles of violence.
By the end of August 2015, approximately 20,000* children aged 17 years and younger had been recorded killed in the Syrian conflict, out of a current total of roughly 200,000* civilians killed.
By far the primary cause of death reported for children was explosive weapons (about 70%) of which most are air bombardment.
The remaining children(about 30%) are hit by small arms fire of which around 12% were reported to be from targeted sniper-fire. A relative small but significant number of children aged under 9 yrs which also includes infants, died from torture, rape and just over 1% are the children in Ghouta killed in a chemical attack.
Revised figures from the ORG report August 2013
Norway Fund £500Billion.
@Falloch, here are the actual documents and statements that Yahoo withholds:
https://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc12132.doc.htm
With the UNSC seized of the matter, any use of force is conditioned on future resolutions. The first preambular provision prohibits NATO from knocking over the government of Syria and the 5th imperative paragraph invokes the prior work of the International Syria Support Group. So NATO may fly around and randomly blow shit up but Russia is positioned to keep them from dismembering Syria. Russia has preemptively set up an Article 47 Military Staff Committee, and if they play their cards right they can set some worthwhile precedents.
” The Oil Fund is not a pension fund. ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway
Norway has a Kr 647 billion national debt, equivalent to 30% of GDP.
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/norway
” If the missile could not even hit England, why would Urban write this:”Fortunately for Nato, the Kremlin had no intention of firing the SS-23s in Germany.”
There is no link there and besides there were, and still are, British troops based in Germany.
“The closest Nato countries to East Germany were Holland and the UK. ”
Well actually they would’ve been West Germany and Denmark.
http://missilethreat.com/missiles/otr-23-ss-23/
“I for one will offer my services without charge.”
If you stick your tongue any further into your cheek you’re going to hurt yourself.
Good to see Kempe at least try to clear up the danger to the UK when Thatcher’s government tried to promote a non-nuclear conclusion to the Cold War which would be triggered apparently by Captain Simon Hayward of the 14 Intelligence Company shooting Sweden’s Prime Minister on the night of February 28, 1986.
The whole problem was that the USSR had these SS-23 missiles which it could rain down on NATO without it having a clue about their existence.
While Kempe is right to include Denmark and West Germany, he failed to include Norway which was most relevant to the hopefully non-nuclear showdown as it was where Nato’s Anchor Express Exercise whose largest contingent was UK Forces was taking place.
Luckily after the assassination in Stockholm, the SoD George Younger, the promoter of Scottish traditions, was obliged to stop the exercise when it was charging through its Vassdalen towards the USSR because it encountered deadly avalanches there.
Very fortunate that he did because if he hadn’t, and some US attack submarine sank a Soviet one, the exercise would have had SS-23s raining down on it too, along with Norway’s Nato allies.
Since there are no Scots in the UK government now, and looks like none will be so in the near future, Scotland cannot expert to have another SoD like Younger to stop a likely armageddon with Russia any time soon.