I did not believe the official story of Hasna Ait Buolacehn the moment I saw it. The official line was that she was a suicide bomber who blew herself up when the police stormed the apartment in St Denis where the alleged terrorist ringleader was hiding out. But that story seemed to me completely incompatible with the recordings on which she could plainly be heard screaming “He is not my boyfriend! He is not my boyfriend” immediately before the explosion. She sounded like a terrified woman trying to disassociate herself from the alleged terrorist. It was a strange battle cry for someone who believed themselves on the verge of paradise.
Then yesterday the truth emerged from forensics that she was indeed not a suicide bomber. None of the mainstream media appeared to find this in any way troubling. And just in case anybody did, the BBC (and I assume all the French and major international media) then immediately did an interview with an anonymous member of the French Police attacking squad, who stated that Hasna was:
“trying to say she was not linked to the terrorists, that she had nothing to do with them and wanted to surrender”.
But he said that due to prior intelligence, “we knew that she was trying to manipulate us”.
Unfortunately this would have been a very great deal more convincing had it been stated 48 hours earlier, rather than only after the original reports that she was a suicide bomber had been corrected on forensic examination. As it is, it looks very much like a post facto justification, a new story to cover the new facts.
Besides, it is very difficult indeed to see what prior intelligence could explain if someone was genuinely trying to surrender or not. There appears to be no information available to the public that gives the slightest indication that Hasna was an extreme Islamist; what public information there is paints the opposite picture. The best the media have been able to dredge up are quotes from friends saying “if she was, then she must have been drugged or brainwashed”. Google it yourself.
But even were she an extreme Islamist, that does not mean she was not attempting to surrender. All of which is a bit nugatory if she were then killed by an explosion triggered by the terrorists themselves. But the changing story about Hasna makes me less than confident that is what actually happened.
I have no difficulty with the principle that the police should shoot people who are shooting at them. I outraged many friends on the left for example by not joining in the criticism of the police for killing Mr Duggan. People who choose to carry guns in my view run a legitimate risk of being shot by the police, it is as simple as that. Jean Charles De Menezes was a totally different case and his murder by police completely unjustifiable. In Paris it appears plain that the police were in a situation of confrontation with armed suspects.
There are severe intelligence disadvantages to killing people with profound knowledge of terrorist organisations. It also cheats the justice system. Nevertheless I can conceive of situations where simply taking out by an explosion a terrorist cell might be justified. But only if you are quite certain of the situation. The case of Hasna is to me troublingly reminiscent of the case of Jean Charles De Menezes, in that it became obvious in the days after his death that everything the police and establishment had leaked to the media about him (leaping over barriers, running through the tunnels, heavy jacket, wires protruding) was a complete, utter and quite deliberate lie.
The media could help if they were in any way rational and dispassionate, or ever questioned an official narrative. It is an urgent and irrepressible question as to why the BBC journalist did not ask the French policeman “and why did you not say this 48 hours ago when you were content to allow the story to run that she was a suicide bomber?”
Similar media manipulation is at use here by the Guardian in telling us the police stormed a “terrorist apartment”. What is a “terrorist apartment”? Are the walls made of semtex? The intent of course is to assure us everybody inside was a terrorist. It is not just the Guardian. The phrase is all over the media. Again, google it.
I am worried in case Hollande’s Rambo impersonation is steamrollering justice. It may well be that Hasna was a dreadful and bloodthirsty terrorist. I do not know. It may well be she was killed by the terrorists not the police. All we know at the moment is she was in an apartment with people who allegedly were terrorists, and died in the “battle”. But I do not trust the changing stories of the authorities.
I just fell off my chair laughing at Node’s post of 8:09 pm. It is satire, right?
“In these circumstances, it is hypocritical and irresponsible to make loud declarations about the threat of international terrorism while turning a blind eye to the channels of financing and supporting terrorists, including the process of trafficking and illicit trade in oil and arms. It would be equally irresponsible to try to manipulate extremist groups and place them at one’s service in order to achieve one’s own political goals in the hope of later dealing with them or, in other words, liquidating them.
To those who do so, I would like to say — dear sirs, no doubt you are dealing with rough and cruel people, but they’re in no way primitive or silly. They are just as clever as you are, and you never know who is manipulating whom. And the recent data on arms transferred to this most moderate opposition is the best proof of it.”
Whoa! The Statesman speaks. Many interesting and sober things like the UN is obsolete but it’s all we have so don’t even ‘think’ of going around it.
But the clip I pulled is truly spot on. Russia has been drying up the oil revenue for ISIS, the only truly effective blow against them. Why are Putin and Anonymous able to do things that the 5 eyes can’t? Hmmm. Fascinating,
Anon1 : I just fell off my chair laughing at Node’s post of 8:09 pm. It is satire, right?
You didn’t fall off your chair and you don’t really think I was being satirical, so your comment is an empty sneer. Says more about you than me.
Lifer – not hard to find, it’s on the UN website in English, French and Russian http://gadebate.un.org/70/russian-federation
No need to rely on WaPo
Lifer, are you Mary’s Grandmother?
@Anon1 – please stop this barrel bomb narrative, JUST ONE US J24 2,000lb BOMB(and an F15 carries 4) IS EQUAL TO 20 BARREL BOMBS which are essentially primitive versions designed to emulate the US version but have a much lesser bang.
THEY ARE CERTAINLY NOT WHAT THE SAUDI REGIME WOULD PAY US$ 1.1 BILLION FOR (its recent order), AND THEY ARE COMPLETELY PRIMITIVE COMPARED TO WHAT YOU YIDS RECENTLY BOMBED GAZA WITH eg none of Assads barrel bombs would bring down even ONE of the Gaza buildings, and satanyahu brought down 10,0000 !!!!!!!!!
Lifer; Is Putin indirectly referring to the ICC’s failure to move the ball on Israel?
Alcyone
“Benny Boy has returned to purple-haze-mutter mode, after one coherent comment after months”
__________________
The comment was only coherent because it didn’t come from Ben’s addled brain – it was just a cut-and-paste! LOL
It’s all they have: hypocritical nonsense, barrel-bombs and butcher ad nauseum. Let them make greater fools of themselves. Looks like shift-change time too.
Thanks for all the excellent informative posts put up by genuine commenters today.
~~
It’s a chilling thought that the maniacs in Tel Aviv are i/c of at least 115 nuclear warheads.
Israel has 115-warhead nuclear arsenal: US agency
Sunday, 22 November 2015
Israel has produced 115 nuclear warheads since it began making them in 1963, according to a new study released by the Washington DC-based Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS).
Israel, the report states, has produced 660 kilograms of plutonium within the last 52 years at its Dimona nuclear reactor in the southern Negev Desert.
Aerial view of Dimona
ISIS believes plutonium production at Dimona began in December of 1963, making Israel the sixth country to successfully develop nuclear weapons after the U.S., Russia, Britain, France and China.
According to the ISIS report, the Dimona site contains a number of secret nuclear facilities for the production of plutonium, including a heavy-water reactor, a fuel fabrication plant and a plutonium separation plant — all of which were provided by France in the 1950s and early 1960s.
Israel, the report goes on to assert, has a wide range of warhead delivery systems at its disposal, including ballistic missiles, nuclear-capable cruise missiles and aircraft capable of delivering nuclear payloads.
The study further notes that Israel has a submarine fleet from which it is capable of launching nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.
According to ISIS founder David Albright, who wrote the report, Israel continues to maintain a policy of “strategic ambiguity” in regards to its nuclear arsenal, despite the declassification of several U.S. government documents that appear to confirm its existence.
He added that the revelations made by Mordechai Vanunu — a former technician at Dimona — in 1986 had revealed a much vaster Israeli nuclear weapons program than had been commonly assessed at the time.
The true number of Israeli nuclear weapons remains a closely guarded secret.
Other studies have put the number at some 80 deployable warheads.
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/22410-israel-has-115-warhead-nuclear-arsenal-us-agency
Dimona. Such a pretty name for a little girl.
Moderator (s)
“THEY ARE CERTAINLY NOT WHAT THE SAUDI REGIME WOULD PAY US$ 1.1 BILLION FOR (its recent order), AND THEY ARE COMPLETELY PRIMITIVE COMPARED TO WHAT YOU YIDS RECENTLY BOMBED GAZA WITH eg none of Assads barrel bombs would bring down even ONE of the Gaza buildings, and satanyahu brought down 10,0000 !!!!!!!!!”
_______________-
Please note the charming expression “yids” in line 2.
From sock-puppet “Lifer” at 20h31.
You neocons really preen your ignorance like it was Marie Antoinette’s latest coiffure. You are the darlings of visible infections with doilies knitted to highlight your spoor of pride and affection. Of course this compliment will escape your comprehension since it contains multi-syllabic words strung together with an irritating rhythm, and you hate rhythm.
Mary sighs
“It’s a chilling thought that the maniacs in Tel Aviv are i/c of at least 115 nuclear warheads.”
________________
Perhaps she’s easily chilled.
But no matter, she’s not important.
The important thing is that the tyrant rulers of the states surrounding the only functioning democracy in the Middle East feel the chill.
He said the Radiation will Largely be Be Dispersed in The Atlantic Ocean by The Rain and The Winds – and most of The USA will still be O.K…if the wind is coming from The West…
I looked again at the 87 Year Old English Gentleman..and asked – Are You Serious About This???
Well Look at What The Americans Have Done So Far…
What These American/Neocon People Need is To Be AFRAID
They are Not Our Friends.
They are Terrorising Us in England and Europe..
How Else Do We Reply?
Tony
Smoke another one, Ben.
Funny. The word ‘Dyke’ never entered my mind. 🙂
Alcyone “Lifer, are you Mary’s Grandmother?”
Hahahahahaha, but the other translations were not as good. And Putin has saved us from this US charade, we could have been under attack in Europe forever.
On Anonymous and ISIS
In the Fight for Peace and Social Justice is Mass Media or Anonymous the Answer?
by Kim Petersen / November 22nd, 2015
http://dissidentvoice.org/2015/11/in-the-fight-for-peace-and-social-justice-is-mass-media-or-anonymous-the-answer/
The concluding words –
‘ISIS is an abomination. ISIS is, however, in major part a western-created abomination.
Because of the insidiousness of disinformation and its use as a tool of repression and oppression, and since the CBC reveals itself to be an instrument of disinformation, the CBC (along with western corporate and state media elsewhere) presents itself as an enemy of peace and social justice.
A greater abomination than ISIS is the existence of state actors that create real boogeymen to evoke fear, carry out terrorism, foment wars, and cause death and mayhem. Equally abominable and sordid is mass media which disinforms and manipulates public sentiment, and which allows the planting of false flags to wreak further death and destruction to attain unjustifiable political ends.
If indeed Anonymous is a grouping, however loose, dedicated to exposing disinformation, waging peace, fighting against state intrusions into privacy while revealing state secrets, and supporting social justice — then it seems clear that Anonymous is a group that anti-war types and supporters of a just society should solidarize with.’
Node
“Anon1 : I just fell off my chair laughing at Node’s post of 8:09 pm. It is satire, right?
You didn’t fall off your chair and you don’t really think I was being satirical, so your comment is an empty sneer. Says more about you than me.”
__________________
I fell off my chair as well, Ganglion.
You’re very funny. Have you ever thought of earning a living with it?
Tony_0pmoc
22 Nov, 2015 – 8:11 pm
Hi Tony, we used to chat on the John Pilger thread @ ADVFN a long time ago, glad to see you’re still are about and keeping it personal 😉
How did you manage to embed that nice photo with your avatar?
Habbabkuk
I feel the real reason for the opposition to Israel’s nukes from the likes of Mary is that it means Israel will always be able to defend itself, and exist. They really hate the thought that Israel can’t be wiped out by its neighbours.
Habbabkuk
Node will ask you for documentary evidence that you fell off your chair.
When I search Satanyahu the page takes me to ‘Did you mean Netanyahu?’
LOL. Contact Websters and Oxford. We have common usage in time for next year’s dictionary.
Do you now regret arguing for UK military intervention in Libya?
No – I do regret how the Islamists used the power vacuum that arose afterwards – but even without Western intervention Ghadaffi or his successor would have fallen eventually (as tyrants always do) leaving an even greater power vacuum. The lesson is not to intervene, but how to intervene and with whom and how to handle the subsequent transition.
In France, the heels of the jackboots are clicking together.
France’s 3-month state of emergency lets govt censor the web
Constitutional amendment has already passed lower lawmakers
20 Nov 2015
Following last week’s Paris attacks, the French National Assembly has today voted to extend the nation’s state of emergency for a further three months. It will also amend powers established in the original 1955 legislation in light of technological developments.
Despite the murders of 129 victims, and the deaths of the seven terrorists, the state of emergency bill has alarmed civil liberties campaigners, who are concerned about several measures they deem “authoritarian”, particularly the expansive powers police have been granted to conduct computer searches, net censorship, and curtail the freedom of association.
/..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/20/france_extends_state_emergency_3_months_police_censor_web/?
There’s stupid, very stupid, then there’s this guy..
No – I do regret how the Islamists used the power vacuum that arose afterwards – but even without Western intervention Ghadaffi or his successor would have fallen eventually (as tyrants always do) leaving an even greater power vacuum. The lesson is not to intervene, but how to intervene and with whom and how to handle the subsequent transition.
Lifer
22 Nov, 2015 – 8:57 pm
Alcyone “Lifer, are you Mary’s Grandmother?”
Hahahahahaha, but the other translations were not as good. And Putin has saved us from this US charade, we could have been under attack in Europe forever.
-_________________
So, no. relief. Thanks for your sincere answer and glad to see someone with a sense of humour! 🙂
Lifer works in sales & marketing at the Washnton Post. Why rely on the msm when the UN ate has audio files giving the speech as delivered and smultaneisu translation into all UN languages
That said being stupid is the rage these days..
Ron Paul Booed by Insane Debate Audience for Endorsing the Golden Rule
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v8qtZ3I5AM
Do you resident neocons comprehend my 8:54?
It’s a challenge to read but verrrry complimentary.