I did not believe the official story of Hasna Ait Buolacehn the moment I saw it. The official line was that she was a suicide bomber who blew herself up when the police stormed the apartment in St Denis where the alleged terrorist ringleader was hiding out. But that story seemed to me completely incompatible with the recordings on which she could plainly be heard screaming “He is not my boyfriend! He is not my boyfriend” immediately before the explosion. She sounded like a terrified woman trying to disassociate herself from the alleged terrorist. It was a strange battle cry for someone who believed themselves on the verge of paradise.
Then yesterday the truth emerged from forensics that she was indeed not a suicide bomber. None of the mainstream media appeared to find this in any way troubling. And just in case anybody did, the BBC (and I assume all the French and major international media) then immediately did an interview with an anonymous member of the French Police attacking squad, who stated that Hasna was:
“trying to say she was not linked to the terrorists, that she had nothing to do with them and wanted to surrender”.
But he said that due to prior intelligence, “we knew that she was trying to manipulate us”.
Unfortunately this would have been a very great deal more convincing had it been stated 48 hours earlier, rather than only after the original reports that she was a suicide bomber had been corrected on forensic examination. As it is, it looks very much like a post facto justification, a new story to cover the new facts.
Besides, it is very difficult indeed to see what prior intelligence could explain if someone was genuinely trying to surrender or not. There appears to be no information available to the public that gives the slightest indication that Hasna was an extreme Islamist; what public information there is paints the opposite picture. The best the media have been able to dredge up are quotes from friends saying “if she was, then she must have been drugged or brainwashed”. Google it yourself.
But even were she an extreme Islamist, that does not mean she was not attempting to surrender. All of which is a bit nugatory if she were then killed by an explosion triggered by the terrorists themselves. But the changing story about Hasna makes me less than confident that is what actually happened.
I have no difficulty with the principle that the police should shoot people who are shooting at them. I outraged many friends on the left for example by not joining in the criticism of the police for killing Mr Duggan. People who choose to carry guns in my view run a legitimate risk of being shot by the police, it is as simple as that. Jean Charles De Menezes was a totally different case and his murder by police completely unjustifiable. In Paris it appears plain that the police were in a situation of confrontation with armed suspects.
There are severe intelligence disadvantages to killing people with profound knowledge of terrorist organisations. It also cheats the justice system. Nevertheless I can conceive of situations where simply taking out by an explosion a terrorist cell might be justified. But only if you are quite certain of the situation. The case of Hasna is to me troublingly reminiscent of the case of Jean Charles De Menezes, in that it became obvious in the days after his death that everything the police and establishment had leaked to the media about him (leaping over barriers, running through the tunnels, heavy jacket, wires protruding) was a complete, utter and quite deliberate lie.
The media could help if they were in any way rational and dispassionate, or ever questioned an official narrative. It is an urgent and irrepressible question as to why the BBC journalist did not ask the French policeman “and why did you not say this 48 hours ago when you were content to allow the story to run that she was a suicide bomber?”
Similar media manipulation is at use here by the Guardian in telling us the police stormed a “terrorist apartment”. What is a “terrorist apartment”? Are the walls made of semtex? The intent of course is to assure us everybody inside was a terrorist. It is not just the Guardian. The phrase is all over the media. Again, google it.
I am worried in case Hollande’s Rambo impersonation is steamrollering justice. It may well be that Hasna was a dreadful and bloodthirsty terrorist. I do not know. It may well be she was killed by the terrorists not the police. All we know at the moment is she was in an apartment with people who allegedly were terrorists, and died in the “battle”. But I do not trust the changing stories of the authorities.
“Cameron 3.30- 5.30 pm inc opposition reply and questions.
Presenting the 2015 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR), Mr Cameron announced plans to spend £178bn on equipment and support over the next decade.”
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Thank you, Mary, that is splendid news.
I welcome in particular the decision to press forward with the creation of two rapid-reaction “strike brigades” each made up of around 5,000 troops. This makes good military sense in the context of today’s and tomorrow’s threats and the response needed.
My only doubt is whether enough is being done.
Mary tells us that £178 billion will be spent over the next ten years, in other words £17,8 billion per year.
That compares MOST UNFAVORABLY with current annual UK govt spending on health and social security – £138 billion and 110 billion respectively.
I believe that more needs to be done (and therefore spent).
After all, the first duty of any responsible and democratic state is to defend its citizens against those who might wish it ill.
Ganglion
“Fred : It works the same as it does here. You vote for the party which has a manifesto you think will be to your advantage.
So you are saying that Libyans who voted for the NFA now have a standard of living at least as high as when Gadaffi was the leader? Yes?”
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Do shut up, Ganglion.
We get the message – you think “Colonel” Ghaddafi was the cat’s whiskers.
Most normal people know he was a cunt.
End of story.
“Silvio” and “Monteverdi” – both as authentic as Sir Charles Forte’s “spaghetti bolognese” 🙂
Asini tutti i due!
“Two of the people used by whichever Palestinian terror group which was responsible for the indoctrination were a 14 and a 16 year old girl – are there no depths to which the inspirers of such terrorism will not stoop?”
Wrong, it is the Zionist terror group in power that has inspired these two young girls, the policies of the Apartheid regime occupying Palestine, leaving absolutely no future prospects and a life full of harassment by settlers, pain, rejection and humiliation at every checkpoint.
I’m not surprised that your sheltered upbringing and lack of respect has left you in a cupboard of your own making Habby, but this is common knowledge, even the BBC has mooted as much. You are not very well informed.
Maybe this article by Hadar Eid will educate you somewhat.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/palestine-de-osloized/14977
Even old Fatah and Hamas fighters had to grapple with this fact of life, the lack of a future in a fascist country has driven their kids to acts of random violence, they have not seen anything positive from Oslo.
Young children are put in prison by the IDF, strip searched and humiliated, others are murdered by settlers.
I call that genocide and Israel better learn from this because it might become very popular amongst eight year olds next.
https://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-strip-searches-children-new-detention-center/14999
Just to counter the troll’s attempt to rubbish the Palestine Monitoring Group’s daily reports. I have said more than once that the detail is listed below the main headlines but it is beyond him to comprehend.
18 November 2015
4 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage
Ceasefire violation – Israeli Army attack – agricultural sabotage: Gaza – 11:30, Israeli forces positioned behind the Green Line opened fire on Juhor al-Dik farmland.
Ceasefire violation – Israeli Army attack – agricultural sabotage: Central Gaza – 18:00, an Israeli Army position behind the Green Line opened fire on and launched stun and tear gas grenades at al-Maghazi camp farmers.
Economic sabotage: Gaza — the Israeli Navy continues to enforce an arbitrary fishing limit.
Agricultural sabotage: Salfit – 10:30, in Deir Istiya, the Israeli Army issued an order for the uprooting of 80 olive trees.
~~~~
17 November 2015
4 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage
Ceasefire violation – Israeli Navy attack – economic sabotage: Northern Gaza – 15:20, the Israeli Navy opened fire on Palestinian fishing boats off al-Sudaniya.
Ceasefire violation – Israeli Army attack – agricultural sabotage: Gaza – 07:30, Israeli forces positioned behind the Green Line opened fire on al-Shuja’iya farmland.
Raid – economic sabotage: Qalqiliya – 19:55, Occupation troops raided Izbit al-Tabib village and issued a destruction order on a local shop.
Raid – agricultural sabotage: Jericho – 13:25, Israeli troops raided Fasayil al-Foqa village, issued orders for the destruction of workers’ living accommodation and livestock shelters, and ordered the bulldozing of land planted with palm trees
I see there is unabashed pride in poor comprehension from our trolls. Can we all forget about alliteration for a while out of sympathy for the disability? Further, try simple declarative sentences to assuage their confusion.
Listening to the bizarre ramblings of Dave the rave Cameron today when he described the so called terrorists as a “evil death cult” it sounded similar to something that would’ve come straight out of the mouth of Aleister Crowley, all that was missing was the pyramid style hat.
Of course I could be mistaken Dave the rave may have been reading a Krishnamurti book, and picked up the expression there. I wonder if he bought it or if someone left it in one of Westminster’s numerous bars.
They do say that there’s more Krishnamurti books, than Hydrogen in the universe.
“Most normal people know he was a cunt.”
_________________
I take it you’re referring to David Cameron or George Osborne again.
Well done Node, you gave Fred a spanking, and managed to wrangle Habb, with that juicy reposte on living standards, pre and post Gaddafi.
As Lance-Corporal Jones said, They don’t like it up em.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-home-mk-calls-for-imprisoning-families-of-terrorists/
A solution perhaps for the ‘ follically-challenged Fiorentini ‘ friend who posted his concerns at 5.22pm ?
”It would be understood by every son that he doesn’t want this to happen to his father , mother , sisters and brothers ”, Yogev went on . ” I have no doubts this would be a very big deterrent ” .
Any thoughts before retiring back to under your stone near Kadarim ?
Fred
23 Nov, 2015 – 9:53 am
“Police are investigating Women for Independence after a large amount of people’s donations seem to have gone missing.”
……………………………………………………………………………………
What’s your point Fred?
Where there’s money there’s likely to be a thief.
““There are other means of deterrence,” he said, “such as banishing families of murderers to the Judean Desert — something that’s possible by law — and the creation of a type of Holot [Detention Facility] run by the Military Police.”
Shameless copycats. Now they’re borrowing language from S. Africa. Boers were proud of their democracy too.
Ask Steven Biko. (wait, you can’t)
https://nolstuijt.wordpress.com/tag/how-many-people-died-in-police-custody-during-apartheid-1963-to-1990-police-deaths-in-cells-statistics-2013-saps-police-deaths-in-cells/
On 18 August 1977, activist Steve Biko, 31, who was Ghandi-ite: a supporter of non-violent confrontation – as opposed to the ANC’s armed struggle — was arrested at a police roadblock under the Terrorism Act No 83 of 1967 and interrogated by officers of the Port Elizabeth security police including Harold Snyman and Gideon Nieuwoudt. This interrogation took place in the Police Room 619 of the Sanlam Building in Port Elizabeth.The interrogation lasted twenty-two hours and included torture and beatings resulting in a coma.[15] He suffered a major head injury while in police custody at the Walmer Police Station, in a suburb of Port Elizabeth, and was chained to a window grille for a day. On 11 September 1977, police loaded him in the back of a Land Rover, naked and restrained in manacles, and began the 1100 km drive to Pretoria to take him to a prison with hospital facilities.He was nearly dead owing to the previous injuries.[19] He died shortly after arrival at the Pretoria prison, on 12 September. The police claimed his death was the result of an extended hunger strike, but an autopsy revealed multiple bruises and abrasions and that he ultimately succumbed to a brain hemorrhage from the massive injuries to the head,[15] Later post mortems revealed that he had died from a counter-coup injury to the brain.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Biko
Would you prefer to face an armed ISIS fighter or a member of the IDF?
What difference does it make?
The scissors-wielding Palestinian teenaged girls did not attack an Israeli Jew. They intended to, but the man they attacked turned out to be a Palestinian.
And the response of Israeli security was to shoot both, one after she had already been toppled and was lying on the ground. One of the two girls has already died from her wounds.
Israeli police shoot two scissors-wielding Palestinian teenage girls, killing one.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-november-23-2015/
Re Lo Zuccone post 5.22pm .
Please keep up . It appears as reported above that the two victims of the so called ” terrorist attack ” on Route 443 in the West Bank were IDF soldiers Ziv Mizrahi and a female IDF Officer .
Occupying enemy combatants is a more apt description of the victims .
@Trowbridge 5:53pm
I posted an A321 ‘tail-removal’ mention 6 days ago https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/disappearing-aircraft/comment-page-24/#comment-561877. from a Petrograd news source, nevnov.ru, seat-numbers weren’t specified then, but in yesterday’s news they do now indicate [TATP?] under seat either 30A or 31A (a fifteen year old girl called Masha or an OAP) http://nevnov.ru/430586-bomba-na-a-321-raspolagalas-pod-kreslom-15-letnej-devochki
@Ben-OBTC 7:xx
http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyxkdP-5mD0
I saw Peter Gabriel sing this with Youssou n’Dour in some Swiss festival,
Perhaps that’s why I (stupidly) believe in freedom of speech, rarely – but – rarely the sleeping masses are moved. . .
Ref Forte. Lord Forte not Sir Charles.
Daughter Olga is married to Sir William Shawcross, Zionist supporter and put in as head of the Charity Commission where he oversees the records of all those Jewish charities.
‘….in 2011 he joined the board of the Anglo-Israel Association and was appointed to the board of the Henry Jackson Society.’
[..] ‘In 1970 he married the writer and art critic Marina Warner, and their son, Conrad, is an artist. The marriage ended in divorce in 1980.
Shawcross later married Michal Levin: their daughter Eleanor, has been a member of the Council of Economic Advisers to George Osborne since 2008. She had previously worked on Boris Johnson’s mayoral campaign.
Eleanor is married to Simon Wolfson, Baron Wolfson, who is the son of David Wolfson, Baron Wolfson of Sunningdale, both of whom are Conservative life peers and who are the current and former Next chairmen.
Shawcross and his third wife, Olga Polizzi, are based in London.’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shawcross
https://www.roccofortehotels.com/forte-philosophy/team/corporate-contacts/olga-polizzi/
Lord Forte had a farm in leafy Surrey.
More of ‘They are ALL in IT together’. Osborne has so many tentacles.
Correction I am not sure that Shawcross has been knighted, yet.
William the conqueror
As a radical young writer, he took on the US establishment over Vietnam. Now he counts American hawks as friends and has been appointed biographer to the Queen Mother. What will he do with the House of Windsor’s secrets? http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/jul/13/monarchy.biography
Thanks,YouKnowMyName.
Looks like just a Western fabrication which the DM is most eager to post to square what the Russians said about the crash with what Nato wants you to believe what happened.
The head of the FSB only told Putin that it was an act of terror – which it certainly was – but London and Washington claim that this is an acknowledgement of of bomb which it isn’t.
It also could well have been other things, especially taking over its transponder and crashing it but a suicide bomber taking it down is what Moscow goes out of its way to deny.
Seems to only leave the hijacking of the transponder.
“So you are saying that Libyans who voted for the NFA now have a standard of living at least as high as when Gadaffi was the leader? Yes?”
Some of them considerably higher I should think.
It’s an ill wind that blow nobody any good.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Police-Man-stabs-four-people-at-Jerusalem-gay-pride-parade-410687
Lysias 7.34pm .
An Apartheid response to stabbers ? An orthodox Jewish Israeli who committed a frenzied stabbing attack on a Tel Aviv Gay Pride March this year killing one and injuring others is simply overpowered and detained despite having done the same 10 years previously [ above ]. Palestinians however are extra-judicially murdered .
“What’s your point Fred?
Where there’s money there’s likely to be a thief.”
Well yes and if that thief turns out to be a Member of Parliament then I would think it of interest to all of us.
@TrowbridgeHF – The Russians will take care of the “airline diplomacy” devils, their downfall is their queer need to zapruder the crime, the hava-nagilas of 911 come to mind. The break up video is definitely not the work of some bathing salt imbibing ragheads.
Fred : Some of them considerably higher I should think.
So your answer to “Who are the winners in post-intervention Libya?” is “Some of the people who support the Western appointed government.”
Just out of interest, do you support UK military intervention in Syria?
““Most normal people know he was a cunt.”
_________________
I take it you’re referring to David Cameron or George Osborne again.”
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No, RoSy, still referring to the late, unlamented “Colonel” Ghadaffi. 🙂
Rezpublicofscotland
“As Lance-Corporal Jones said, They don’t like it up em.”
_____________________
“Colonel” Ghaddafi certainly didn’t.
Think you should be talking about the Pentagon’s “airline diplomacy”, especially when it came to Bibi talking crazily about your demise, Metrojet.
“The scissors-wielding Palestinian teenaged girls did not attack an Israeli Jew. They intended to, but the man they attacked turned out to be a Palestinian.”
___________________
Which proves the wisdom of what our Transatlantic Friend once asked of me when he was responding to my posts about the Tel Aviv beaches (he was claiming discrimination) : how do you tell a Jewish Israeli from a Palestinian Israeli?