I did not believe the official story of Hasna Ait Buolacehn the moment I saw it. The official line was that she was a suicide bomber who blew herself up when the police stormed the apartment in St Denis where the alleged terrorist ringleader was hiding out. But that story seemed to me completely incompatible with the recordings on which she could plainly be heard screaming “He is not my boyfriend! He is not my boyfriend” immediately before the explosion. She sounded like a terrified woman trying to disassociate herself from the alleged terrorist. It was a strange battle cry for someone who believed themselves on the verge of paradise.
Then yesterday the truth emerged from forensics that she was indeed not a suicide bomber. None of the mainstream media appeared to find this in any way troubling. And just in case anybody did, the BBC (and I assume all the French and major international media) then immediately did an interview with an anonymous member of the French Police attacking squad, who stated that Hasna was:
“trying to say she was not linked to the terrorists, that she had nothing to do with them and wanted to surrender”.
But he said that due to prior intelligence, “we knew that she was trying to manipulate us”.
Unfortunately this would have been a very great deal more convincing had it been stated 48 hours earlier, rather than only after the original reports that she was a suicide bomber had been corrected on forensic examination. As it is, it looks very much like a post facto justification, a new story to cover the new facts.
Besides, it is very difficult indeed to see what prior intelligence could explain if someone was genuinely trying to surrender or not. There appears to be no information available to the public that gives the slightest indication that Hasna was an extreme Islamist; what public information there is paints the opposite picture. The best the media have been able to dredge up are quotes from friends saying “if she was, then she must have been drugged or brainwashed”. Google it yourself.
But even were she an extreme Islamist, that does not mean she was not attempting to surrender. All of which is a bit nugatory if she were then killed by an explosion triggered by the terrorists themselves. But the changing story about Hasna makes me less than confident that is what actually happened.
I have no difficulty with the principle that the police should shoot people who are shooting at them. I outraged many friends on the left for example by not joining in the criticism of the police for killing Mr Duggan. People who choose to carry guns in my view run a legitimate risk of being shot by the police, it is as simple as that. Jean Charles De Menezes was a totally different case and his murder by police completely unjustifiable. In Paris it appears plain that the police were in a situation of confrontation with armed suspects.
There are severe intelligence disadvantages to killing people with profound knowledge of terrorist organisations. It also cheats the justice system. Nevertheless I can conceive of situations where simply taking out by an explosion a terrorist cell might be justified. But only if you are quite certain of the situation. The case of Hasna is to me troublingly reminiscent of the case of Jean Charles De Menezes, in that it became obvious in the days after his death that everything the police and establishment had leaked to the media about him (leaping over barriers, running through the tunnels, heavy jacket, wires protruding) was a complete, utter and quite deliberate lie.
The media could help if they were in any way rational and dispassionate, or ever questioned an official narrative. It is an urgent and irrepressible question as to why the BBC journalist did not ask the French policeman “and why did you not say this 48 hours ago when you were content to allow the story to run that she was a suicide bomber?”
Similar media manipulation is at use here by the Guardian in telling us the police stormed a “terrorist apartment”. What is a “terrorist apartment”? Are the walls made of semtex? The intent of course is to assure us everybody inside was a terrorist. It is not just the Guardian. The phrase is all over the media. Again, google it.
I am worried in case Hollande’s Rambo impersonation is steamrollering justice. It may well be that Hasna was a dreadful and bloodthirsty terrorist. I do not know. It may well be she was killed by the terrorists not the police. All we know at the moment is she was in an apartment with people who allegedly were terrorists, and died in the “battle”. But I do not trust the changing stories of the authorities.
should say facetious nuance…..
Some horrid history.
A reminder how Blair, as newly elected leader, ran the Labour party…
The Independent
September 11, 1994
Only the young and trusted dine at Tony’s; Blair puts the emphasis on PR
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/only-the-young-and-trusted-dine-at-tonys-blair-puts-the-emphasis-on-pr-1448181.html
ex
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1448130052.html
Rosy
That’s much better, thanks.
Have you tried lately, Mary? It used to work that way.
Must be because I’m not klevver like you then, Ben. Either that or you ain’t as good at your job as you think. Do you envy colleagues who see more action?
Anyway, no need to whoosh my 4 points if I’m so stupid.
Here they are again. For sources and discussion, see my post above (6.13pm).
1) Only last month, France was proposing at the UN Security Council that UN soldiers should police the Haram al-Sharif (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem.
2) Stories are conflicting with each other about the use of suicide belts at the Bataclan theatre, as well as at the flat.
3) The Bataclan theatre was owned for nearly 40 years by Joel Laloux, before he sold it in September and moved to Israel. He’s an orthodox Jew and a raving Zionist, who used the venue to host events in support of the Israeli Army and “Jewish charities”, and on the night of the attacks he broke the usual rule of no phone use on the Sabbath to receive “details on the situation as the hostage-taking was under way”.
What if he was a sayan? If he was, did someone say “This is a big one. We’ll be in to do our stuff, and then you’ve got to sell it. We’ll see you all right, of course.”
4) Info about Daesh. They are apocalypticist; they believe in a final battle at Dabiq in Syria, which is why their glossy magazine (available from the pro-Israeli Clarion Project on the web) is called ‘Dabiq’. They also believe that at that time, Jesus will return. They tolerate Christians who pay a special tax, but they want to kill all Shi-ites, whom they view as apostates.
Sources etc. in article above.
4 Points
“Well Habby, a sayan might provide premises for a terrorist operation – a shop or a paintball stall in a railway station, or a Dead Sea oil stall in a shopping centre, or a mail forwarding service, or whatever.”
_________________
So you’re suggesting that that’s what the “Marks & Spencer premises at railway stations in Britain” are for?
Interesting. Have you brought that claim to the attention of Marks?
Uh. Work on a sense of humor 4 points. You’ll live longer.
One thing good about Israel is their medical marijuana research and social/legal structure. That seems the exception to the Rule.
Steve Kay
Not every life has the same value. Menezes was killed and his life value can be precisely calculated..
A + B + C = Menezes Life Value
A = amount the HSE fined the police for saying they killed the Brazilian, payed up by British taxpayer
B = amount paid by the British taxpayer to pay off the Menezes’ family
C = cost paid by the taxpayer for the inquiries into Menezes’ death. They found that the police unlawfully killed the electrician, the police lied.
The ammunition that killed Menezes was not MET issue until 6 years later, the “police officers” photographed at the scene were holding weapons never issued to the MET, never issued to anyone, they had been modified by Special Forces for Special Forces use.
The Glock 9 that “stove piped” during the killing was cleared and continued to be fired into Menezes lifeless body whilst the co-killer continued pumping shots into Menezes. This is not MET practice these are the actions of a highly trained professional killers not police officers protecting the public.
The death was a Blair + Blair PR coup, the terror chief of the MET in 2010 admitted that the killing had been coordinated to coincide with the Gleneagles G8 Summit.
RoS
“Colonialism in Africa, has failed miserably..”
_________________
Well, that’s a statement which could be discussed but it’s not really germane to the point I flagged, is it.
I was saying that there are those that believe that, generally speaking, African countries are worse off now – 40 to 50 years after independence – than they were under colonialism.
Do not forget, either, that a hypothetical colonialism of today would not be like the colonialism of a century or half a century ago.
Dabiq. Located near Aleppo, Syria.
Megiddo (Armageddon) located between Galilee and Samaria.
Hmm. Islam originated with the Patriarchs of the OT when Abraham cast out his illegitimate son in favor of Isaac. Christians expect the final battle to be over literal Jerusalem, so a basic agreement over the venue for the great battle is in dispute and will be postponed indefinitely.
The Assads and the Syrian Baathists have been protecting Christians in Syria, just the way Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi Baathists did before Iraq was invaded.
I actually heard on the BBC a couple of weeks ago a Christian bishop from Syria say how glad he and the other Syrian Christians have been over the Russian intervention, so frightened were they that Assad might be toppled.
If you have ever been seriously attacked by words (physical violence is a completely different but related thing) ..you may wonder exactly why you responded the way you did…
What did you do? Did you shout and scream back or did you go all quiet?
Did you hide? Bury your head in the sand? – “No its not happening..They are all being horrible to me”
Did You Run away or Did You Connect Left To Right?
Regardless of how you reacted – and it happens to all of us…
You could read this – I found it very interesting – even illuminating.
“Imagine that one of your colleagues tells you that you have got it wrong about your beloved partner, your religion and your politics.
According to Chiren Boumaaza, your brain may then enter a ‘defensive state’.
(Bachir Boumaaza was born in Belgium to a Moroccan father and a Belgian mother.)
The chemicals that are released in your brain are the same ones that try to ensure your survival in dangerous situations, such as being chased by wild animals.
It is the ‘primitive’ part of your brain that comes to the fore.
When in the defensive state, you are in a fighting mood, or an escaping mood, and the part of the brain involved in cool ‘rational thinking’ does not work so well.”
It gets a lot deeper – and it is so true.
“ATHENE’S THEORY OF EVERYTHING – PART ONE”
http://aanirfan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/athenes-theory-of-everything-part-one.html
Tony
The Resident Inquisitor seems to be studying Spanish. I wonder if he was motivated by my comments about him needing a translator.
“I was saying that there are those that believe that, generally speaking, African countries are worse off now – 40 to 50 years after independence – than they were under colonialism.
Do not forget, either, that a hypothetical colonialism of today would not be like the colonialism of a century or half a century ago.”
_________________
Habb.
The above comment is very poor and a extremely ineffectual observation. A C- minus go to the back of the class old boy.
To suggest that colonialism of today would somehow be more effective than that of the old imperial colonialism, when Africa is still under the ravages and constructed division of its pre-colonial masters, overtly or covertly, is in my opinion staggering naivety or knowing you filibustering nonsense.
resident dissident the statistics aren’t my opinion, they are UNHCR figures. 7 million refugees fleeing towards SAA controlled areas beggars belief if they consider it to be a murderous regime. They are clearly trying to escape the butchering lunatics that have been funded and armed since the very beginning of the attack on Syria. If it were such a popular uprising it wouldn’t need the influx of many thousands of foreign fighters. It’s not up to us to decide who governs Syria, nor is it our business to give them a short list of who they are allowed to elect. Assad accepts that elections are the way forward, let the voters decide.
Yes, well I volunteered for the sayanim but I faint at the sight of blood and for whatever reason Jan Schakowsky didn’t want to fuck me, so I enrolled in Israel’s elite cadre of treasonous Zionazi sleeper agents, the yaashim. Now I win hearts and minds on the Internet while I keep my ham radio tuned to the secret frequency, stealthfully waiting for the unique number sequence that will unleash me on a terrified world.
http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/anthropologists-overwhelmingly-conference: American Anthropological Association approves resolution to boycott Israeli academic institutions because of Israel’s maintaining a settler colonial regime based on Jewish supremacy and Palestinian dispossession.
The handwriting is on the wall, just as it was for apartheid in South Africa.
“I actually heard on the BBC a couple of weeks ago a Christian bishop from Syria say…”
_____________________
That would be on the BBC World Service broadcasting on SW or BBC relay to the Eastern USA, would it?
Resident Dissident
21 Nov, 2015 – 1:30 pm
@Mary:
“PS Israel does go in for extra judicial killing of Palestinians. I did not need reminding of that.”
@ResDis:
No what you need reminding of is that it also occurs the other way around as well.
……………………………………………………………………….
What you need reminding of ResDis is that the Palestinians were and are still fighting to protect their land, homes and lives against an aggressor state.
Yes Ben it does work but it is very slow.
This is Alcyone/Villager’s latest little sac of poison. The ‘creative project’ that he left to perform must have been a failure. How base.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/11/shoot-to-kill-and-news-management/comment-page-1/#comment-562878
Some “commenters” will be pushing up the daisies long before the handwriting appears on the wall.
Do you vermin really think that you can get away with this..?!
Mr Scorgie
Welcome back, Sir, it’s good to know you’re still on the payroll!
I’d guess you’re not on piece rates – am I right?
I wonder why Lysias is no longer using the handle “Lysias” when posting on mondoweiss?
I quite like “Lysias” as a handle, it has a certain classy ring to it.
Given his three major interests, the Irish-American gentleman behind the moniker could, I suppose, have called himself Lysias (or some other Greek orator’s name), O’Reagan or Janner.
I think he made the right choice.
The ‘person of interest’ will be brought to trial.
For war crimes, amongst other things.
@Lysias – Daesh (ISIS) tolerate Christians who live on their territory, so long as they pay a tax. But they execute any Shi-ites they get their hands on, viewing them as apostates. Yazidis, whose religion is close to Zoroastrianism, they enslave.
Whether they actually allow Christians to go to church, I don’t know. Their fellow Salafists in Saudi Arabia don’t.
According to Anjem Choudary, the whole Daesh package would include free housing, food, and clothing for all, but I am sceptical as to whether Daesh have actually implemented that.
What Isis Really Wants – article in the Atlantic magazine.
Re all This French Psyop..The photographic evidence is very strong that most (maybe all of it was faked)..but on the other hand – because the event was well advertised in advance (they did a practice drill earlier the same day)..It is entirely possible that another Team Came in – who Actually Did shoot and Kill People – Like the English Bloke in The Foyer – selling Merchandise at The Bataclan.
Anyway they just played The American Band “Eagles of Death Metal” on Planet Rock – and as I had never heard of them before – I thought they would be shite – …
Well they ain’t Death Metal …just normal heavy rock…you know – like a band you have never heard of before…just turning up at a rock festival…and you think on first listen – yeh they are O.K.
I would be amazed if they knew anything about this in advance.
They are just musicians.
Tony
“What you need reminding of ResDis is that the Palestinians were and are still fighting to protect their land, homes and lives against an aggressor state.”
So are all the victims of ISIS – so can we presume that you are in favour of all forms of response – extra judicial or otherwise?