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Yeah, Labour SC members threatened to resign if we DON’T bomb fuck out of something. Unusual. Shame Jezza backed down, but I’d guess he had no choice. The vote isn’t certain of course, so Jezza can continue to advocate for sanity. Alas I fear we are too far down the path now. Glad I don’t like in the UK.
Hieroglyph – “Shame Jezza backed down, but I’d guess he had no choice. ”
He declared there’d be a free vote on a vote that Cameron hadn’t even decided to call yet.
How about saying he’d make that call once Cameron had gone for the vote…
How about saying he’d make that call once Cameron had gone for the vote…
Possibly. But I’m not sure the timing is all that vital. Perhaps Cameron was waiting to see if there was a 3-line whip before acting, but perhaps not. I suspect it’s now just about numbers, and the SC decision was irrelevant.
I’m not joining in the Corbyn-bashing though. He had something like 18 SC members against him, and half his parliamentary party, so being conciliatory is understandable. I personally think there was a strong case to bring it on, but then I wasn’t in the SC meeting.
It’s like living in North Korea.
The question is, how long can you jokers maintain the con.
Cue the Dam Busters…
There was a very close correlation between Corbyn declaring the free vote and Cameron calling it.
“There was a very close correlation between Corbyn declaring the free vote and Cameron calling it.”
You may be right. And it’s possible that a) a 3-line whip would have scared Cameron off, b) waiting to state the labour position was tactically more advisable. But how much of either a), or b) is down to Jezza is hard to say. I think the SC wanted a position before the vote, for tactical reasons of their own.
It’s complicated when Jezza’s enemies are sitting round the same table. He’ll never get an even break from the Nu Lab vermin, for sure.
Wouldn’t it be great if Labour MP’s were doing what they should and hold the Tories to account. It was really a plan to lure Cameron into a vote and then they all voted No and defeated the motion. The Tory rebels would also be lure into a false state of security and also vote No. Cameron would have to resign
Here comes Boris. The dope on a rope, who was funded by EU money (his father worked for the EU) but wants to leave the EU.
“Wouldn’t it be great if Labour MP’s were doing what they should and hold the Tories to account.”
I always thought that what MPs should do is represent the wishes of their constituents.
Corbyn was right to suggest a free vote. This will allow Labour party members in the constituencies to see their members’ ‘consciences’ in action.
The vote itself is of little account-the UK is essentially a tattered rag wrapped around naked US imperialism. What the House wants is of little importance besides what the Pentagon wants. And, if the Pentagon wants the RAF to bomb Raqqa it will.
The UK’s position used to be important but it has become increasingly clear that it never deviates from the US script.
What would be important would be a revolt by the constituency parties who, after working hard to elect MPs now discover that they are out of their control, care nothing for what anyone who doesn’t own a newspaper-or is not owned by one- thinks and feels safe to do what they want between the quinquennial campaigns.
Time for Annual Parliaments, the traditional demand taken up by the Chartists.
God, the troll-fest is unbelievable.
No one addresses the fact that military involvement in Syria will bring us into direct military confrontation with the Russians.
Again, you lot are all going to be put on trial for crimes against humanity.
You are vermin.
You are scum.
You will be brought to trial.
Make no mistake about that.
KOWN, you’re a wit! 🙂
However there might be more bad news for Ukraine as winter approaches while the focus is on Syria.
http://tass.ru/en/world/840373
“Franco was no military genius.”
________________
Perhaps not, but better than anyone on the Republican side. And it’s probably true that his German advisers were better than the Republicans’ Soviet advisers.
It is also a little-known fact that Franco was the youngest Spanish general in pre-Civil War Spain.
“It’s looking more and more like July 1914.”
______________________
Given our Transatlantic Friend’s powers of prophecy (Lord Janner’s imminent “unfortunate accident” refers) I propose to treat the above utterance with the caution it so richly deserves.
“Yet there is little criticism of Cameron in/on the MSM. It is all about destroying Jeremy Corbyn.”
Indeed. Matliss on Newsnight was essentially blaming Corbyn’s lack of whipping of his traitors in the PLP into opposing war for, Cameron’s whipping of Tories into war.
It was an incredible, but nevertheless predictable, Corbyn bashing from the BBC.
Angel’s Whip the well-known dessert made from Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose has more connection with food than Cameron and Corbyn’s whips. As with the last vote on bombing Syria the real whips were the Friends of Israel.
Just because a dessert stands up on its own and tastes of traces of artificial sweetener and chocolate flavouring, doesn’t mean it’s food. Same way a parliamentary vote is never really free. MPs don’t do ‘free’, ever. they are not paid to do ‘free’ any more than Craig was paid to do ‘free’ as an ambassador.
MPs represent the needs of the NWO Zionists on our behalf, because we wouldn’t know what to vote for, would we? US hegemony over Europe, the Middle East, and Asia and Africa with a 50 lane motorway connecting all the main stopping points would be a good symbol of the American pioneering dream.
And we want it, don’t we children? Yes we do Giyane!
Kamel Daoud, Algerian Journalist and Writer:
Saudi Arabia, an ISIS That Has Made It
Black Daesh, white Daesh. The former slits throats, kills, stones, cuts off hands, destroys humanity’s common heritage and despises archaeology, women and non-Muslims. The latter is better dressed and neater but does the same things. The Islamic State; Saudi Arabia. In its struggle against terrorism, the West wages war on one, but shakes hands with the other.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0
How many times has Smoothface said ‘It’s the right thing to do’?
We the people know that it is the very opposite now.
~~~~
Syria air strikes vote on Wednesday, says David Cameron
David Cameron: “Isil is a threat to our country and this is the right thing to do”
The PM is to ask his cabinet to endorse a one-day Commons debate and vote on Wednesday over UK air strikes against so-called Islamic State in Syria.
David Cameron said there was “growing” parliamentary support for air strikes, saying it was “the right thing to do” and in the national interest.
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn is granting his MPs a free vote on the matter.
He has criticised the decision not to hold a two-day debate, saying Mr Cameron should “stop the rush to war”.
Announcing his decision, Mr Cameron said he would recommend to his cabinet on Tuesday “that we hold a debate and a vote in the House of Commons to extend the air strikes that we have carried out against Isil in Iraq to Syria, that we answer the call from our allies and work with them, because Isil is a threat to our country and this is the right thing to do.”
Prior to Mr Cameron’s statement, Mr Corbyn called for two days’ of debate ahead of any vote, saying a single day “would inevitably lead to important contributions being curtailed”.
Responding to those calls, Mr Cameron – who was speaking in Downing Street shortly after returning from the Paris climate summit – said there would a “very long and full” debate.
“We will take the action necessary to make sure we have, in many ways, the equivalent number of questions we would often have across a two-day debate in one day,” he said.
“I want MPs to be able to have full consideration, to make speeches, to make points, to ask me questions, to examine the government’s case,” he added.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34970516
~~~~~
No child shall be harmed.
The psychopaths Bush and Blair ignored Mbeki and Mandela in 2003. No surprise there.
Blair and Bush went to war in Iraq despite South Africa’s WMD assurances, book states
New book God, Spies and Lies details Mbeki’s attempts to stop invasion
SA experts worked with Saddam in 1980s; Mandela also tried to warn Bush
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/30/blair-and-bush-went-to-war-in-iraq-despite-south-africas-wmd-assurances
~~~~~
Both warmongers have gone to war as fathers of young children. Shocking.
Blair’s children were 19, 17, 15 and 3 in 2003.
Cameron’s children are now just 11, 9 and 5.
The only thing that saved Franco was staying out of WW11, although he supported the Nazis. Franco hired the Germans to bomb Spain in the Spanish Civil War. 1934-37? Genocide. Picasso’s ‘Gernica’ There are still percussions today. Basques and Catalonia.
The Spanish Royals are getting charged with tax evasion and dodgy, illegal housing deals. Along with members of the government. Deals which took down the Spanish economy. Spain and Portugal were facilitating the illegal Iraqi Wars. Bush and Blair held meeting there. (for favours). A Spanish Judge has issued a warrant to arrest Netanyahu, for the attacks and murder of humanitarian activists on the Aid ship to Palestine.
Jean Bricmont’s reply to Àngel Ferrero’s question.
‘ÀF: Let’s stay in Syria. Several European politicians demand a military intervention in Syria and Libya to restore the order and stop the influx of refugees to the European Union. What do you think of this crisis and the solutions proposed by the EU?
JB: They do not know how to solve the problem that they have created. By demanding the departure of Assad as a precondition to solving the Syrian crisis and by supporting so-called moderate rebels (the label moderate meaning in practice that they had been chosen by “us”), they prevented any possible solution in Syria. Indeed, a political solution should be based on diplomacy and the latter presupposes a realistic assessment of forces. In the case of Syria, realism means accepting the fact that Assad has the control of an army and has foreign allies, Iran and Russia. Ignoring this is just a way to deny reality, and to refuse to give diplomacy a chance.
Then came the refugee crisis: this was probably not expected, but occurred at a time when European citizens are increasingly hostile to immigration and to the “European construction”. Most European governments face what they call “populist movements”, i.e. movements that demand more sovereignty for their own countries. The flux of refugees could not come at a worst moment, from the European governments’ point of view.
So, they try to fix the problem as they can: having peripheral countries like Hungary build walls (that they denounce in public but are probably happy about in private), reinstall border controls, pay Turkey to keep the refugees etc.
There are of course also calls to intervene in Syria to solve the problem “at the source”. But what can they do now? More support for the rebels, trough a no-fly zone for example, and running the risk of a direct confrontation with the Russians? Help the Syrian army fight the rebels, as the Russian do? But that would mean reversing years of anti-Assad propaganda and policies.
In summary, they are hoisted by the own petard, which is always an unpleasant situation.’
The Ideology of Humanitarian Imperialism
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-ideology-of-humanitarian-imperialism/5492190
27 November 2015
Spsnish Civil War 1936-39. 11WW started 1939.
Franco was a dictator. No universal suffrage held Spain back economically. Spain only became a constitutional Monarchy in 1978. People only got to vote 40 years after the Civil War.
In Catalonia (Spain?) ‘foreign’ resident EU citizens do not get to vote in the Regional or National Elections. They can only vote in the local or EU elections. Breaking? EU Law that all EU citizens should be treated equally.
Ken2 If you ever come across this film, don’t miss it. I saw it when it first came out and it is still etched in my memory. A parable. Absolutely brilliant.
Into the depths of Franco’s Spain: Pan’s Labyrinth (El Laberinto del Fauno)
A film by Guillermo del Toro
11 January 2007
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2007/01/laby-j11.html
MPs: SYRIA VOTE Wed 2/12/15: So Many Lives Are in Your Hands. Get Informed Now!
MPs – The Absolute Minimum You Must Do Before Voting on Whether to Start a Bombing Campaign which Would Undoubtedly Kill Innocent Children, Women and Men is to Take the Time to Read and Digest the Key Arguments that Warn Against it.
http://sanitynow.org/
There are quite a few novels based on the Spanish Civil War been published recently. They give an account of the despair, repression and lack of basic necessities..
Mary
Thanks For the Sanity now like..good one
I have been saying Too, Re uk war crime in Yemen.. a good piece on that here by Felicity Arbuthnot –
” As Prime Minister David Cameron attempts to persuade Parliament to back another illegal assault on a country posing no threat to the UK, Syria, it transpires that Britain may anyway face war crimes charges for arms sales to Saudi Arabia, arms being used to decimate civilians and civilian infrastructure in Yemen.
“Advisers to Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, have stepped up legal warnings that the sale of specialist missiles to the Saudis, deployed throughout nine months of almost daily bombing raids in west Yemen … may breach international humanitarian law”, states a report in the Independent. (1)
“Since March this year, bombing raids and a blockade of ports imposed by the Saudi-led coalition of Sunni Gulf states have crippled much of Yemen … thousands of Yemeni civilians have been killed, with schools, hospitals and non-military infrastructure hit. Fuel and food shortages, according to the United Nations, have brought near famine to many parts of the country.”
Moreover: “The UN estimates that twenty one million people are now without basic life sustaining services and over 1.5 million are displaced. Unicef estimates that as many as ten children a day are being killed.”
Given that the population of Yemen is just over twenty four million, the figures demonstrate that almost the entire population is experiencing unimaginable devastation in an onslaught on which the governments of “international community” has simply turned it’s back – except those bombing with US and UK supplied missiles.
In a statement laughable was the situation not so devastatingly tragic:
… there is concern within the Foreign and Commonwealth Office that the Saudi military’s attitude to humanitarian law is careless. Officials fear that the combination of British arms sales and technical expertise used to assist bombing raids on Yemen could result in the UK being hauled before the International Criminal Court on charges relating to direct attacks on civilians.”
http://www.globalresearch.ca/britains-robust-arms-export-control-regime-uk-munitions-sales-to-saudi-arabia-bombing-yemen-crimes-against-humanity/5492280
Hilary Clinton and Blair keep in close contact by e-mail and phone. Blair (Powell) were trying to get the Clinton’s to endorse his attempt at nomination for EU Presidency. Image. A warmongering murderer as head of the EU. The harm he has continued to do in the Middle East and the world. Brown and Blair should be in jail. Where’s the Chilcot Report. 7 years later. Chilcot should be charged with embezzling public funds. A lawyer had been struck of for charging £750 an hour. The usual standard rate? £300 to write a letter £60 for a stamp.
Oops And Re Dr Mads Gilbert
Sorry to say that i had to abandon that one.
I had a the feeling even as i thanked you for re posting the Link to that event, but thought I might still have been able to chance my luck..if i gave it a few hours, But i have been too sore with my injured rib.. Yesterday was the worst…really painful with every move.. So at last I have decided it calls for a doctor.. For which Dash .. Cheers again.
Ken2
“The only thing that saved Franco was staying out of WW11, although he supported the Nazis.”
______________________
The first part of that is certainly right. Had he not stayed out he would have had a lot more to contend with after the war than the newly-formed United Nations calling for its members to cease diplomatic relations with Spain (in the event, a number of South American and Arab states (plus non-members Switzerland and the Vatican0 ignores the call).
As for the second part, I should say that Franco supported Spain rather than the Nazis. It is noteworthy that his support for Germany “lessened” as the war went on nd it was becoming clear who would win. For instance, the Spanish Blue Division was withdrawn from the Russian front and exports of wolfram (tungsten) to Germany were phsed down and finally diverted almost exclusively to the Allies.
Here endeth the history lesson – cue our Transatlantic Friend, no doubt 🙂
Ken2
“In Catalonia (Spain?) ‘foreign’ resident EU citizens do not get to vote in the Regional or National Elections. They can only vote in the local or EU elections. Breaking? EU Law that all EU citizens should be treated equally.”
___________________
Incorrect. EU law provides for the right of vote for foreign EU citizens only in local and European Parliament elections, not in national and regional ones.
Russia has been invited into Syria by its Sovereign Govt to help in its fight against a wide variety of rebels including Daesh.
NATO has managed to arrange a flimsy semi-legal mandate from the UN to bomb DAESH,or whoever it chooses.
This mandate was arranged after the mass hysteia generated by the MSM following the Paris atrocities.
Turkey is also a NATO member, but has diametrically opposing objectives in Syria, mainly with land grabbing and suppressing the Kurds.
Russia bombed Turkish road tanker oil convoys, transporting stolen oil, from the DAESH controlled Mosul and Syrian oilfields to Turkey.
For this Turkey downed a Russian fighter jet. The DAESH oil is transhipped from Turkey in ships ownd by Bilal Erdogan,son of Papa Erdogan.
The shipping company is BMZ ,registered in Malta. Most of this oil is offloaded in Israel and Ukraine at approx 50% discount.
The oil pays for DAESH guns,ammo and supplies, which are transported into Syria by Turkey as aid supplies.
Cameron is now dragging us into this rats nest of vipers under the guise of bombing DAESH. He treats the citizens with contempt.
Syria is an unholy mess ,created by the US,NATO and its Gulf allies to further their geo-political designs of eventually subjugating Russia.
We are sleepwalking into another disaster,comparable to Iraq and Syria.
Any MP who votes for this intervention by Britain needs to educate themselves to the real situation in the Middle East and the designs of the US.Israel and the Gulf states to redraw the map of the region in their favour.