Supporting neo-con military attacks in the Middle East is one of two prime articles of faith of a Blairite. The second is not considering the massive increase in the wealth gap between rich and poor to be a problem. Both tenets of faith face a fundamental challenge from the beliefs of Jeremy Corbyn and the majority of Labour Party members.
As you know, I am not a Labour Party member, and indeed as a result of the Blair years my opinion of the Labour Party is that it is a force for genuine evil.
My personal experience brought me face to face with the deliberate waging of illegal and aggressive war on a false excuse, and the complicity in a systematic programme of torture. I openly confess that it is very personal with me, because my own career, health and reputation were ruined by New Labour attacks on me when I tried to challenge the pro-torture policy.
I regarded those decent people who stayed in the Labour Party despite all this, like Jeremy Corbyn, as misguided. Should Corbyn eventually win the current power struggle, I will have been wrong on that, but not on the evil that New Labour did.
Things are coming to a head in the Labour Party as the Blairites are incredulous that Corbyn should oppose the bombing of the 600,000 population of Raqqa, in the hope of hitting 8,000 ISIS personnel carefully dispersed among them. Despite the disasters of Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan, the Blairites, with the full roar of the corporate media behind them, find it absolutely unacceptable that anybody should refuse to support more aggression in the Middle East.
Still more absurd is the attempt to deny the very plain truth spoken by Ken Livingstone, that the 7/7 bombers were motivated by our attack on Iraq. They plainly stated so themselves in suicide videos. I am quite genuinely astonished that we live in an atmosphere that enables denial of this very obvious causality. It really does worry me about the kind of society we have become.
This weekend, the arch-Blairites of Progress are actually colluding directly with the Tories, and I am informed from a Tory source that John Woodcock is in discussion with Michael Fallon. A number of Labour MPs who are actively colluding with the Tories are simultaneously refusing to talk to or meet with their own party members. It is my hope that they are wrong in thinking that the support of the corporate media and of the Westminster bubble is what really counts, and the wider world has no power to influence their future.
In Oldham, my man on the ground (or mostly in the pubs) tells me that it is UKIP, not Labour, who are struggling. The Blairites are hugely disappointed by this, as they were looking to the loss of Oldham as one of the excuses for a putsch. Their house journal, the Guardian, after weeks of pointless conjectures of what will happen to Corbyn if Labour lose, today hastily changes tack. Instead they are claiming that Labour is doing well only because Oldham residents know nothing of national politics and have never heard of Corbyn. The headline might as well be “Oldham People Too Ignorant to Despise Corbyn”. The Guardian is truly now beneath contempt.
Anon1
‘Again I am reluctant to intervene whilst someone is kicking the Guardian, but vast swathes of the North would vote for a donkey if it wore a red rosette.
The thinking goes:
“Me dad voted Labour, me grand-dad voted Labour, so I vote Labour.”
And then they wonder why Oldham remains such a shit-hole.’
You’ve spouted some shit in your time but this one breaks the biscuit. There are a lot of people who do vote for the political party their family have historically voted for but that’s not unique to northerners. Lambasting people of a certain location is both irrational and ignorant. You’ve often expressed an illogical hatred of foreigners, usually none whites. Today you confirmed what many must have already thought, you’re a fucking bigot.
Conjunction – “His son on the other hand has almost none of the political nous of his father, and by bombing his own population when they ran a few protest marches, began a conflict which has killed untold thousands and resulted in the displacment of many millions.”
How do you know this? It is simply the official line parroted by the BBC and other mainstream media. The attempt by the neocons to undermine the Assad government started as soon as Libya had been dealt with. Assad seemed keen to introduce reforms, but violent attacks on his forces made this impossible.
Why didn’t Colbyn leave the Labour Party when Blair illegally invaded Iraq. Why stay in a Party that would do that, amid fundamental disagreement. Surely he could have found anther job. He lives in London with low unemployment. Many couldn’t understand why Blair won another Election, after the illegal invasion.
Working class English vote Tory. They decide what the UK Gov will be, Many working class in the North of England vote Tory. A majority of English working class voted for Thatcher. London S/E is 50/50. e.g the London Mayor election is often won on a relatively small majority either way. Boris Johnston won by 200,000. Out of a population of 10Million? Lower electorate and turnout.
Cameron is coming unstuck. Scandal after scandal. The usual Tory muck up. He is not looking so cocky and confident. Hope the next Referendum comes soon. There is only so much of this nonsense people can take. Imagine Tom Watson as PM. He intervened in the Falkirk candidate selection and tried to get Len McCluskey’s (his ex flat mate) ex girlfriend shoed into place and lied about it. Nepotism runs rife.
Apply for the Council election nomination. Get stuck in.
Alcyone: Ali G wasn’t funny, he’s just a racist who used stereotypes of the black community to ridicule them. Would it be so funny if we did the same about him and his religion? We all know the answer to that.
Philw: Anon1 doesn’t know, he’s just parroting the same old stories that gives the West the excuse to try to get rid of him. If he could be bothered to research, he’d find out that certain governments wanted Assad out well before there was any accusations about him killing innocent civilians. The fact that many Syrian police officers and Army personnel were murdered by the ‘unarmed protesters’ conveniently gets ignored.
Syria had a population of 23Million. Since the start of the Civil war in 2011. 4 Million have become refugees. 210,000 have been killed. How many have been killed by the bombing by the West and poverty, illness and deprivation because of food shortages and lack of medical equipment. Putin tried to broker talks but the West declined. .
Fedup
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Mary, and PhilW
I am not an apologist for the role of the West in the Civil War. But military repression of protest marches on a massive scale began in April 2011, long before the west had got ‘finished’ in Libya.
To pretend that Assad is a good guy just because of the murky motives of the other, much later players is pathetic.
The situation is far more complex, and difficult, than you guys pretend.
@Conjunction
You really must try harder. I have been following the Syrian ‘Civil War’ from the beginning – in fact it was the final straw that broke the camel’s back and opened my eyes to the constant Neocon-directed lies spouted by the BBC and Grauniad.
The idea that after the Libyan debacle, and the chaos Western intervention created, the Syrian people would be risking their lives to bring about a similar fate for themselves is ludicrous. Reports from the ground in Syria some 6 years ago suggested, some from Christian clergy make it clear that the entire instability in Homs was a classic ZATO regime-change strategy. It would seem mercenaries/special forces were crossing over the border and shooting people at random in attempt to provoke an overreaction by Assad. (Shades of Ukraine anyone?)
Copious evidence supports the ‘made in Langley/Vauxhall’ conclusion, not just the witness statements of those on the ground in Homs. Use your favourite search engine to research the comments of French former Foreign Minister Roland Dumas, or read the leaked State Department memo tha describes the very method of magnifying sectarian divisions in Syria. All that seems to be missing at this point is the audio of Victoria Nuland deciding on the composition of the new Syrian government.
The entire story of a popular revolt is a fabrication of the Neocon MSM.
Evidently you have a problem with comprehension too!
@Alcyone
28 Nov, 2015 – 9:03 pm
So you’re more concerned with pedantic grammar corrections than the fact that we are being marched to World War Three by a bunch of neo-con psychos?
Struth…
Conjuction….Owen Jones speech was appalling because he was spouting propaganda in the same way that people will repeat a lie so often that those who don’t do their own research will just accept it as fact because they are too lazy to question anything. Does Owen Jones have relatives in Syria ? Why does he think he has the right to interfere in another country s affairs.
Thankyou Canexpat
I have looked at Dumas’ interview, and the State dept memo.
But what I am saying is that protests began before the bombing in Libya, when the Arab Spring appeared to many still very hopeful, and even the State Dept memo talks about Al Quaeeda getting involved at the time of the military standoff in Homs, which was months after the mass protests started.
Perhaps if Assad hadn’t started massive military repression this wouldn’t have been possible.
Thanks Beth, but no-one has yet told me what he actually said.
Villager I think I am correct in saying that Conjunction is not a newcomer so stop stirring it.
Letter to David Cameron. 23 signatories including Mark Rylance who was one of the speakers at the STW London protest.
https://twitter.com/joelmgunter/status/670586632232411136/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Washington has been out to topple Assad ever since Hezbollah humiliated Israel in the 2006 war.
No “conjunction” is certainly not a newcomer. He trots out the hasbara/neocon/ pseudo left line like a veteran. The facts about Syria are not difficult to discover unless you restrict your researches to anti-Syrian propagandists.
The two most important thins about Syria are, firstly that NATO and its salafist friends have been pouring men, materiel and money into the country in order to get rid of the independent minded anti zionist government and secondly that the idea that any of these tyrant backing regimes has the slightest interest in bringing democracy or civil liberties to Syria is laughable. The notion that Turkey, qatar or Saudi Arabia-all backed by the west and all far more repressive and inclined to ‘bomb their own people” than the most extravagant propaganda against Assad dare to claim, is backing ISIS, Al Nusra and their auxilaries in order to extend the realm of freedom is nonsense.
re Oldham: this town has the proud distinction of having been the first in England to elect workers’ representatives to Parliament. After the 1832 Act Oldham’s millworkers, using their power as consumers, forced the tradespeople and middle class electors to support the duo of Fielden and Cobbett the most radical members in the House. Oldham was a bulwark of the Chartist movement and has long been the seat of solid working class organisation. The town has a claim to be one of the historic centres of popular democracy.
@lysias “Washington has been out to topple Assad ever since Hezbollah humiliated Israel in the 2006 war.”
Yes they have attempted many coups over the years. They have become a serial regime changer and
require therapy.
http://keldbach.net/2015/11/15/old-ussr-caricature-on-syria/
Mary,
I was there today, and Owen did make an embarrassing plum of himself by prattling on about Assad. It was inexcusably cowardly and he was clearly looking out for his job with that shitty rag. He really ought to reconsider his position there.
Euston Manifesto Group or the Zionists took over Labour. There’s a Wiki article.
I take it back about Marr. He has Jeremy Corbyn and Stewart Hosie SNP coming on as well as Fallon.
The two female newspaper reviewers are spewing anti Assad prop. (one is the Times picture editor!!)
Strange to think that not long ago in his previous incarnation as an energy minister, Fallon was pushing hard for fracking. ‘Fracking Fallon’.
Also ‘Minister of State for Portsmouth’!! What was that about.
Previously a business minister (2012-2014) under Vince Cable.
I think, given recent history, one needs to be cautious and sceptical about the role of propaganda in legitimizing and justifying western involvement in overseas conflicts where we have chosen sides and wish to change a regime for something else; usually… Afghanistan, Irag, Libya, just three examples, that something else is far worse. It’s not inconceivable that the stories told in our media about events in Syria and the timeline about ‘who started it’, are just as suspect and tainted as the propaganda which led us into the other wars. Indeed, modern media warfare, means that propaganda is vitally important. Cameron alleging that there were 70,000, Guardian reading moderate Islamist fighters in Syria, what a whopper that is, seems to prove my overall point.
Seems as though the PLP believes ignoring the opinions of its members – not to mention the opinions of a majority of the British public – could not possibly end in tears with a mass exodus, as members and voters alike decide enough is enough and move onto fresh fields. And they won’t be back.
I firmly believe Labour is heading for the sharpest lesson it will ever receive, and which will probably lead to it disintegrating as a parliamentary force completely, and may even consign it to history.
The idea that both main parties can ignore the will of their voters in their combined ‘we know what’s best for you’ manner, which, much more than an affront to democracy, amounts to an official declaration that British democracy is dead for all intents and purposes.
There is little doubt in my mind supporting the bombing of Syria, and the barrage of anti-Corbyn propaganda coming from the very party he has been elected to lead will lead to tens, if not hundreds, of thousands members turning their backs on the Labour Party for good. It will bring a seismic shift in British politics, the like of which has never been seen before.
But, before the Tories start the rub their hands in glee, it will almost certainly lead to the foundation of a new party, something along the lines of Podemos, here in Spain. Podemos defied all the pundits to become one of the three leading parties in Spain within one year of being formed. Despite a settling down of the polls, the party is still a leading contender in December’s general election.
A new British political party won’t have to win a general election immediately, only to provide an effective opposition to the Tories. In fact, by adopting the very policies Corbyn is already proposing, and the right-wing, Lemming faction of the party so wilfully opposes, any new party would be off to a winning start. Policies that come from listening to voters. Policies that Corbyn got elected to lead the party on by a massive majority, stupid! He listens. His policies happen to be virtually the same policies the British electorate (including many Tory voters) has made it abundantly clear it supports.
Corbyn has the support of the real people who actually pay politicians. They don’t pay Labour, and they don’t pay their taxes, in order for opposition MPs to sign off Tory policies.
The anti-Corbyn MPs enjoying the fat salaries directly resulting from members’ door-to -door campaigning and subscriptions are bringing nothing but shame on a party founded on socialist principles. Labour MPs seem to be under the mistaken impression that once-elected they no longer have to listen to the people who paid the piper to play their tune, not Cameron’s.
In or out, it will not be Corbyn losing a general election but the Blairite faction, with its dark obsession with suicidal thoughts. Hasn’t anyone told them the party has lost two elections in succession? Obviously not, deluded as ever Blairites have gone on to behave as though they won the leadership election. Shouting at Labour members to watch out for suicidal socialist tendencies, their empty juggernaut, now out of control, is hurtling to the cliff edge.
Craig –
“I am quite genuinely astonished that we live in an atmosphere that enables denial of this very obvious causality. It really does worry me about the kind of society we have become.”
Watched a wonderful, wonderful lecture by Edward Said recently, entitled “The Myth of The Clash of Civilizations”, (a brilliant deconstruction of, and exposé of the fatal flaws in, Samuel Huntington’s famous essay/book) which does much to explain those things about which you express astonishment and concern.
(download it here: http://tinyurl.com/j6c8uh9 – use top link, 136.23 MB)
I recommend this to everyone, BTW. If you are short on time you can listen to his concluding words, starting at the 34m 16s mark, which begin with “It does seem to me, ostrich-like…” and end at 35m 54s with “…what Huntington provokes”. (But sit down and watch the whole thing, *distraction-free*, if you can).
BTW, thank you for another excellent post, Craig.
Re Said’s lecture:
just transcribed this section (which I had previously bookmarked):
(at 06m 45s)
“…Not only will conflict continue … he [Huntington] says, the conflict between civilisations will be the latest phase in the evolution of conflict in the modern world. It [Huntington’s essay] is a brief and rather crudely articulated manual in the art of maintaining a wartime status in the minds of Americans and others”.
Brief and crudely articulated it may have been, but it sure as hell worked!
(Huntington’s essay appeared in Foreign Affairs journal in 1993)
Note: American spelling of Civilization is with a ‘z’, not an ‘s’.
For those who may be inspired or intrigued enough by Edward Said’s wlecture to want to do some follow-up reading, here is a list of the books/writings he cites:
“The End of History and the Last Man” by Francis Fukuyama
“Heart Of Darkness” by Joseph Conrad
“The Disuniting of America: Reflections on a Multicultural Society” by Arthur Schlesinger
“The Invention of Tradition” by Eric Hobsbawm
and Said’s own “Culture And Imperialism”
I would add my own personal recommendation – “Orientalism” by Edward Said
“Still more absurd is the attempt to deny the very plain truth spoken by Ken Livingstone, that the 7/7 bombers were motivated by our attack on Iraq. They plainly stated so themselves in suicide videos.”
I don’t buy this line, or rather the way you are using it. It is not in any circumstances normal, excusable or justifiable to detonate yourself on public transport because of a grievance against your government for its actions in a far-away country you have no connection with other than it being populated by people of the same religion as you.
It is only by brainwashing by an extreme ideology that you could end up carrying out this sort of action.
We should not base our foreign policy on what crazed fanatics might do in retaliation, whatever your opinion of the Iraq War.
Journalist: M. Ben M’Hidi, don’t you think it’s a bit cowardly to use women’s baskets and handbags to carry explosive devices that kill so many innocent people?
Ben M’Hidi: And doesn’t it seem to you even more cowardly to drop napalm bombs on defenseless villages, so that there are a thousand times more innocent victims? Of course, if we had your airplanes it would be a lot easier for us. Give us your bombers, and you can have our baskets.
Do you condemn ZZW, PG and AK for their suicidal resistance in the Warsaw Ghetto in 1943? Or the Sonderkommando that blew up a crematorium at Auschwitz in 1944? Suicide does not negate idealism, it only demonstrates what Ben M’Hidi said. Still mustn’t grumble, any fool who can write about “our” foreign policy must have been brainwashed by an extreme ideology so isn’t to be taken seriously.
Assad’s an arsehole but he isn’t Netanyahoo, Barry the bloody bastard or that gurning fig pucker Cameron. He’s the least disgusting option for the Syrian people – for the moment.
K. Crosby –
“It is only by brainwashing by an extreme ideology that you could end up carrying out this sort of action.”
Your statement (above) holds true for the “sort of action” that was taken against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya…
(The list goes on, ad infinitum).
Blair’s government did 7/7. There were “suicide videos” because those lads were duped by the security services into getting involved in a phony anti-terrorism training program. It was a false flag which must have been okay’d by the dark and sinister Tony Blair.
The photo of them at Luton station where the four were never together that day was badly photo-shopped with one man walking through a metal barrier. When their train into London that morning was late and two men arrived after “bombs” started going off they realized they were the patsies. They tried to inform the press at Canary Wharf but were shot dead there by armed police. That shooting was announced at first but then quickly hushed.
There were drills at those four stations that day–what are those odds?–and a policeman on one of the trains said the blast came from below. There are suggestions Jean Charles de Meneezes may have worked on the underground’s electricity supply and was shot to stop him figuring out the reported power surges, but nobody can find out where he worked.
“It is only by brainwashing by an extreme ideology that you could end up carrying out this sort of action.”
Your statement (above) holds true for the “sort of action” that was taken against Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya…
(The list goes on, ad infinitum).
Quite