This is the official Turkish radar track of the Russian aircraft they shot down, in red. It briefly transited a tiny neck of Turkish land – less than two miles across where the Russian jet passed – twice. I calculate that each “incursion” over Turkish territory would have lasted about 10 seconds, assuming the plane was flying slowly at 600mph. That Turkey shot down the plane for this is madness, and absolutely indefensible. It is fairly obvious from the track that the plane was operating against Turkish sponsored Turkmen rebels inside Syria, and that is why the Turks shot it down.
But the inescapable conclusion is that the true madness would be for the UK to get involved in Syria and make a complex and volatile situation still worse, and risk being dragged into wider conflict.
However the map is misleading, as Turkey unilaterally extended its border 5 miles into Syria for a “security buffer”, which this map shows as the border. But the real internationally recognized border is 5 miles to the north. This is why Turkey insists Russia violated its airspace while Russia insists their plane was in Syria. Regardless of which side of the map line the Russian plane was on, it was clearly on a path that was not a threat to Turkey at all.
You forgot to mention that that tiny sliver of land is in fact Syrian territory an that Turkey arbitrarily moved their “air space” into Syria. The SU24 never entered turkish airspace. This bold act of war against Russia and Syria by Turkey is likely retaliation for Russia exposing th fact that erdogan’s son is profiting from stolen syrian oil by purchasing it from ISIS. This also likely an attempt to maintain they safe transit zone for ISIS to travel to and from Turkey. It is clear now that Turkey is protecting ISIS. This gives russia the perfect pretext to close all syrian airspace to non Russian aircraft and shoot down USAF, IAF, RAF aircraft without warning.
Again one wonders why Turkey a NATO member would be so bold as to shoot down a Russian jet fighter, could it be the Russian fighter was tracking or attacking rebels backed by the West in the fight to depose Assad.
Is Turkey following the NATO plan of declaring the Turkish-Syrian border a no go area, and safe zone for forces opposed to Assad.
Have pro-Assad forces pushed, insurgents posing as the FSA back towards to the Turkish border.
If that is to be belived and it’s within the realms of possibility, then France’s (timely) intervention, will be most welcome by anti Assad forces, welcome but not decisive.
The Syrian conflict appears to be a marker, an indicator of just how far both opposing forces will go to appear the victors, can NATO, the self appointed “world police force” really afford to lose face or back down on this one.
If that seems likely then the thieves kitchen, the EU will step in and barter a treaty, it’s like a boxer having the referee on his side when he’s down for the count.
Assad is indeed a murderous dictator, but what right does NATO have to raze Syria to the ground, killing thousands of its citizens on a pretence, that Daesh are operating out of Syria.
No sane person would buy into that, especially after the bloodfest of Iraq and Libya.
@Uzbek in the UK
“Russians have violated many airspaces recently and got what they have deserve. Turkey has warned Russia several times. If they did not act it would turn into the “the last Chinese warning” and Russians would keep violating their airspace in future.”
You really have not got a clue have you. As a ex British military veteran we the British have been
violating Russian space for years with aircraft and submarines.
The Obama White House is giving ISIS a 45 minute warning before bombing their oil tankers by dropping leaflets advising potential jihadists to flee before air strikes in Syria.
“Get out of your trucks now, and run away from them. Warning: air strikes are coming. Oil trucks will be destroyed. Get away from your oil trucks immediately. Do not risk your life,” the leaflet reads.
The leaflet drops are justified under the premise that the oil tanker drivers might be civilians and not ISIS recruits, although it’s an explanation that doesn’t wash with critics.
“It’s not like these drivers are innocent, uninvolved “civilians” like children or sick people,” writes J.E. Dyer. “They’re waging ISIS’s war, just like the other non-uniformed participants who make up 100% of ISIS’s ranks.
This is how far the Obama administration is going to avoid “collateral damage” — and who knows, it may be worse.”
http://www.prisonplanet.com/white-house-gave-isis-45-minute-warning-before-bombing-oil-tankers.html
The goal to enforce Wahhabism throughout the Middle East.
Wikileaks has struck again; this time, they have revealed a U.S. government cable sent from the former Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, to the U.S. Treasury office that specifically alluded to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia’s substantial financial donations to international terrorist groups fighting the U.S. Armed Forces.
According to an introductory cable that discussed Saudi Arabia’s background
Donors in Saudi Arabia constitute the most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide.
Secretary of State Clinton followed this statement up with the following
Continued senior level USG engagement is needed to build-on initial efforts and encourage the Saudi government to take more steps to stem the flow of funds from Saudi Arabia-backed sources to terrorists and extremists worldwide.
Mary
“One of the two {Russian}pilots is reported dead. RIP”
_________________
Would you have written RIP if the pilots had been Americans on a bombing mission?
When Turkey took over Hatay province in 1938-9, the ethnic minorities, having experienced Turkish oppression and genocide, knew enough to leave:
Tom Welsh
“Implication 2: Next time any Turkish aircraft strays (or “strays”) into Syrian airspace, it will be snuffed out.”
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And you’re creaming your jeans at the very thought of it, aren’t you.
You disgusting anti-Westerner.
At the time of the shootdown of the Iranian Airbus, the Pentagon lied, and claimed the U.S.S. Vincennes was in international waters. They later had to admit that it was in Iranian waters.
Fredi
“I wonder if Russia could ‘respond’ by taking out an Israeli fighter jet violating Syrian airspace?”
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I wouldn’t rate the chances of a Russian fighter and pilot against an Israeli one.
But hey, Fredi, keep creaming your jeans while fantasising about it by all means.
I don’t see the question but it should be asked: Is Edrogan in control of his military?
Anti-Westerner? Turkey is more Western than Russia?
Probably see Russian bombers escorted by fighters in the near future, or bombers armed with air to air capability. I doubt very much the Turks will get to shoot another Russian plane down without a fight.
The total incursion is tiny, and there would have been almost no time to issue a leave or else warning. In fact by the time you’d finished saying “get out or else” it would already have gone ! Flight time on the missile alone would have put the Russian jet well within Syrian airspace.
I’m no lover of Putin, but I think he has a right to be pretty cross about this. what’s most worrying is that all the worlds major powers are controlled by war hawks, so escalation is likely.
Someone in here mentioned that climate change may have caused unrest in Syria, to which the resident “know it all” (Habb) mocked and derided the commentor.
Now it would appear Habbs master, and dobby movie stand in, Prince Charles, has public given a interview with Sky news, declaring that very thing, a 5 year drought is the Syrian problem.
https://www.rt.com/uk/323081-prince-charles-climate-syria/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
I wonder if Habb will now apologise to the commentor, or will he mock his lord and judge HRH Buggerlugs.
It would appear Mr Know it all, knows nothing of the sort.
What does it matter if Russian warplanes enter a little bit of Syrian airspace if the enemy they’re fighting is Daesh? Turkey are against Daesh too, right? What’s the Turkish government’s problem?
Except if Turkey and the US are actually supporting Daesh, of course. Or it’s more important to them to destroy the Syrian regime than it is to stop Daesh taking its place.
And except if WW3 is consciously on the agenda.
Which IMO it is.
N_
“I’m sure there have been many civilian casualties of the Russian air raids, and I wouldn’t want to deny that for one moment.”
________________
I’m sure that you would deny it if you thought you has the slightest chance of getting away with your denial.
I’m sure of it because posters like you are the epitome of deceit.
@David – Yes. And according to some accounts there were 10 incursions in 5 minutes. Are we supposed to think the pilot had been on the vodka? And how sharp a turn can you do at 600mph anyway?
Does Wahabbism trump the business relationship with Turkey?
Sky News
Turkey says the warplane was downed by its F-16 fighters after ignoring demands to leave its airspace and 10 warnings given over five minutes.
:
It followed demands from the Turks made the previous day that Russia stop bombing militia from the Turkman Syrian minority who are part of a broad-based alliance fighting the regime of Bashar al Assad.
RoSy
“Someone in here mentioned that climate change may have caused unrest in Syria, to which the resident “know it all” (Habb) mocked and derided the commentor.”
__________________
Not guilty, m’Lud – go back and check.
But I would agree, actually – to say that climate change gave rise to the events in Syria sounds lunatic to me.
But, hey, it’s a free country, so do keep believing it if you wish.
Yahoo news
“Today’s loss is linked to a stab in the back delivered to us by accomplices of terrorists. I cannot qualify what happened today as anything else,” said a visibly furious Putin.
Golding
“Nationalists like Putin are strong, forceful and unrelenting. Nothing will stop Putin from doing what he thinks is best for his country. And he proves it every day. Not by silly shit like an ISIS body count a la Vietnam, but by standing up with his allies in Syria, Iraq, and Iran and saying clearly to those threatening Russian interests in the Middle East that “you will have to deal with me, and I have a proven track record that I am a man not to be trifled with.””
__________________
He’s your hero, isn’t he.
And the West is corrupt, a menace to world peace and so weak compared to your hero.
Why don’t you emigrate to Russia?
@Habbabkuk – “I’m sure that you would deny it if you thought you has the slightest chance of getting away with your denial.”
Obnoxious little Zionazi, aren’t you? I tell you, I wouldn’t let you post on my blog. You’d be out on your Nazi ear’ole. And that’s the last I’ll be saying to you.
It all has a very surreal quality to it. We go marching off to World War Three, drummed on by the politicians and the presstitutes, and very few of us question what we’re doing.
Sticking with the surreal vein, Brussels is now in its fourth day of lockdown. I’ve never seen anything like it. Neither has the mayor of Brussels:
“It’s a general catastrophe; we can’t continue like this in these conditions. We can’t live under the Islamist regime,” Yvan Mayeur, the mayor of Brussels, told the public Belgian radio RTBF Tuesday morning.
Mr. Mayeur said Belgium needs to take measures to return to normality while the police continue their investigation and continue to track potential attackers.
“If we close schools, if we ban culture, commerce, if we prohibit people from getting entertained, from going out for dinner or drinks, if we ban all that, what regime are we living in?”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/brussels-lockdown-enters-fourth-day-1448370188
Earlier in 2013, Erdogan’s Egyptian comrades, the Muslim Brotherhood, had perpetrated the worst attacks against the Coptic Church of Egypt since the 14th century. In one particular week, 40 churches were looted and torched while 23 others were attacked and heavily damaged. In one town, after burning a Franciscan school, Islamists paraded three of its nuns on the streets, as if the nuns were prisoners of war.
Two security guards working on a tour boat owned by Christians were burned alive; and an orphanage was burned down. Meanwhile, the Brotherhood’s Facebook page claimed that, “the Church has declared war against Islam and Muslims.”
Today if one typed the words “Islam” and “terrorism” into a quick search, Google would produce over 42 million results. But one of Erdogan’s favorite statements is his famous line, “There is no Islamic terror.” In various times and capitals, Erdogan has powerfully stated that, “Muslims never resort to terror or violence.” Once he said of Omar al-Bashir, Sudan’s Muslim president, who is wanted by the International Criminal Court on charges of genocide and crimes against humanity: “I went to Sudan and did not see any genocide there. Muslims never resort to genocide.”
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4847/erdogan-isis-denial
Gordon
“This gives russia the perfect pretext to close all syrian airspace to non Russian aircraft and shoot down USAF, IAF, RAF aircraft without warning.”
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That’s not going to happen. Tewwibly sowwy.
But please keep playing with the thought until you cream if that’s what makes you happy.
The trolls prefer the christian persecutor edrogan to putin. Heh. They’ll throw their own under the bus to get to Assad.
There is of course no evidence yet for how fast the plane was flying, but at a max speed ( at that altitude) of a tad over 800mph, 600 mph is a wild guess. From the video posted the plane was in the “wings forward” configuration, so would not have been traveling anywhere near Mach 1 ( a tad over 700 mph) Even if it had been doing 300 mph the incursion time was very small.
This act is simply provocation of Russia.
Apparently the pilots were able to eject but landed dead. Shot as they fell? ICC where are ye?
VIDEO Turkey shoots down Russian jet near Syria-Turkey Border