This is the official Turkish radar track of the Russian aircraft they shot down, in red. It briefly transited a tiny neck of Turkish land – less than two miles across where the Russian jet passed – twice. I calculate that each “incursion” over Turkish territory would have lasted about 10 seconds, assuming the plane was flying slowly at 600mph. That Turkey shot down the plane for this is madness, and absolutely indefensible. It is fairly obvious from the track that the plane was operating against Turkish sponsored Turkmen rebels inside Syria, and that is why the Turks shot it down.
But the inescapable conclusion is that the true madness would be for the UK to get involved in Syria and make a complex and volatile situation still worse, and risk being dragged into wider conflict.
Mr Putin has been the only one to speak sense, internationally, with regard to the origin and continued funding of ISIL.
I don’t really fancy his ideas on gay marriage and many other things,must be said. However he has managed to push back the Zionist takeover of western foreign policy in the region.
This must be of benefit to all of us.and will fail.
.
The trolls can continue to attack Mary and others who seek to illuminate.
Their trollec vision of Greater Israel is dark Age in the extreme and will fail
Few people will understand or believe this, and it wouldn’t work so well if they did. This is why I felt physically ill, as soon as I heard about the Paris Attacks. We are all being subjected to mass psychological control, and whilst it has been going on throughout human history and is fundamental to religion, it has been perfected and refined over the last 100 years probably starting with Edward Bernays promoting the idea that America’s war efforts were primarily aimed at “bringing democracy to all of Europe”
We are now possibly on the brink of WWIII, which could well be terminal to the human race. Unless we can find some resistance to mass psychological control, we stand little chance of survival.
This long article explains it very well. I don’t suppose many people will bother reading it, because most people think psychology is nonsense, and such things are not possible – or only possible with the highly vulnerable. Well we are all highly vulnerable.
https://alethonews.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/paris-the-city-of-isis-major-occult-symbolism-hypnosis-the-massive-psy-op-now-underway/
“A week now after the attacks in Paris that news broadcasters keep telling us has “changed the world forever”, it looks less and less likely that this was a straightforward ISIL terrorist attack and more likely that something much more sinister may have gone on.
And not just a staged, false-flag operation, but a pre-fabricated, mass Psy-Op designed to bring about radical changes and to shape or re-configure public perception and psychology.
It has become evident to me *why* it was Paris and why it was Friday 13th; the answers are unsettling. I will get to the significant occult symbolism shortly.
But any time we’re told over and over again that something “has changed the world forever”, we’re best served to be suspicious. In regard to terror attacks, the only other time this mass psychological conditioning has occurred was with 9/11, which probably did change the world forever and which we were repeatedly *told* would change the world forever. Other terror attacks have simply been treated as precisely that: as terror attacks – 7/7, Boston, and others weren’t sold to us as ‘world changing’ or historic, but just as terrorism.
The 13/11 Paris attack seemed pre-packaged from the start as something much more important. This is mass psychological programming we’re witnessing right now; and everyone should pay attention so they can observe how it works.
The mainstream media all over the Western world was on virtual 24-hour Paris coverage for days. In the UK, BBC News 24 reported on virtually nothing else. On Sunday, I watched even the UK’s Channel 4 news do a one-hour news special from Paris, forsaking all other world news. It didn’t show or report on anything new that hadn’t already been reported on the Saturday, but seemed to exist purely to amplify the mass hysteria and sense of historic, world-changing drama.
This weekend, the English Premier League was to play the French anthem before all football matches.
Facebook asking all its billions of users whether they wanted to change their icon to incorporate the French flag?
paris-prayforOn the one hand, it’s a nice sentiment to show solidarity with the Paris victims. On the other hand, where was this sentiment in previous tragedies or losses of life? The Houla massacre in Syria? The relentless Saudi-led decimation of Yemen? The downing of a Russian passenger plane in the Sina? Five years of civilian casualties in Syria? ISIL massacres in Iraq last year? Or even natural disasters like earthquakes or tsunamis? Why is it only for Paris that Facebook tries to guilt-trip its scores of users into showing solidarity? To be fair, I was surprised by how many people seemed to react badly to this and ask the same question; but maybe that’s just the circles I tend to roll in, because I did see lots of users changing their icons like they were told to. You Tube, Amazon and others got in on the symbolism too.
This psychological operation was best exemplified by the lighting-up of various landmarks across the world in French colors, again to show solidarity. This actually seemed to happen suspiciously quickly in some cases, particularly the World Trade Center site…..”
Tony
Doug: Well said! The real danger with people like that is that they have full trust that the world is in the safe hands of an entity that does not exist – it’s like expecting Superman to save you every time you do something stupid and reckless, so just go ahead – it’s fine.
*
Anon1 “A good Pakistani friend of mine from Karachi once told me that the basic problem with Islam is that it lacks compassion.”
I find that very hard to believe. The claim that you have a friend.
@Fredi – Is that article in the Telegraph by you?
I like what you say, and I am opposed to any British military action in Syria that is not in cooperation with Russia and the Syrian government (which is not to say that I would support all or indeed any British military actions that were), and I do not think military action in Syria would do much to defend Britain from terrorist attack…
…but it must nonetheless be recognised that Iraq and Afghanistan were no threat to Britain whatsoever – and British attacks on those countries were criminal acts of mass murder based on lies – whereas Daesh actually is a threat to Britain. I don’t mean to the ruling elite, but to human beings in Britain.
As most people in the Middle East are aware, Daesh is secretly supported by both the US and Israel. Some big military contracts with a British angle are also currently being promoted off the back of Daesh.
The Russian plane was taking action against Islamist terrorists. On the numerous occasions Turkey sent troops and helicopters into Iraq to kill Kurds, there was no criticism from UK,UK etc. Total silence, it did not happen……..so Turkey now supports Islamist terrorists and yet Turkey is regarded as a friendly country to the West. American weaponry used to bring down a Russian rescue helicopter, Washington really needs to start admitting it’s support for Islamist terrorists.
@Anon1
“A good Pakistani friend of mine from Karachi once told me that the basic problem with Islam is that it lacks compassion.”
You haven’t a clue what you’re talking about.
And if you really have such a friend, neither have they.
Find out about the third pillar of Sunni Islam some day – which also appears in Shia Islam.
What the f**k is a “moderate rebel”. Mentioned in BBCrapper constantly. Why are all the Syrian refugees fleeing from these “moderate rebels”?
The Turkish F-16’s were almost certainly directed to the target by an American AWACS plane. They’re stationed at Incirlik Air Base outside Adana, Turkey.
@Craig
“It is fairly obvious from the track that the plane was operating against Turkish sponsored Turkmen rebels inside Syria, and that is why the Turks shot it down.”
FWIW, the Guardian are saying that Putin says the plane was shot down inside Syria while in action not against Turkmens but against Chechen militants.
There are about 3000 Chechens in Syria fighting for Daesh or Al Qaeda.
Ramzan Kadyrov, head of the Chechen republic, has accused Turkey of “treachery” and offered to supply thousands of volunteers if Putin gives the order.
Watch that guy.
Did you know that National Counter Terrorism Awareness Week has just started? !!
https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/668830363318398976
Heavy pre-moderation?
“Moderate rebel” is shit talk.
@Lysias – That’d be a US act of war against Russia. Let’s get our bug-out bags. I’m glad I’ve got a store of food and diesel! I’d be interested to hear your reasoning for the conclusion. Does Turkey not have the capability?
What the f**k is a “moderate rebel”. Mentioned in BBCrapper constantly. Why are all the Syrian refugees fleeing from these “moderate rebels”?
I’ve no idea. The abuse of language has been going on for some time now. I wonder if the journalists themselves are becoming embarrassed about the state propaganda they keep putting out? Not all of them can work for the spooks, there must be a few who are considering resigning, and doing something more honourable, like, I dunno, teaching, or lap-dancing.
It’s a strange thing, this routine, 24/7 dishonesty. I’ve rarely felt so disconnected from the ‘mainstream’ of consensus group think. I’m beginning to agree with Putin, it’s really that bad. A moderate rebel is a rapey, thuggish, people traficker that’s currently paid by us, that’s my best guess. But it still makes no sense.
N_, sorry, I was assuming, since I know U.S. AWACS are stationed at Incirlik, that it would have to have been a U.S. AWACS plane.
However, I have now researched it a bit on line, and I discover that Turkey has four Boeing 737 AEW&C Peace Eagle aircraft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_AEW%26C
So it could have been a Turkish plane.
This article denies that Russia’s aircraft were in Turkish airspace. Given that Russia has, for obvious reasons, taken every effort to avoid doing so, the story deserves attention:
http://sputniknews.com/military/20151124/1030695406/mod-su-24-flight-path.html
Peter Lee, of China Matters, reports that the Paris attack was carried out by Libyan terrorists-talk about chickens coming home to roost!
Looks like they shot at the parachuting crew, killing one.
As Turkey is violating Greek airspace regularly with impunity, to the annoyance of Greece, and Turkey/NATO know a significant part of the Greek debt is for exorbitant rate borrowing for purchase of military hardware, including aircraft and anti-air equipment, purchased from France and Germany. Surely if diplomatic efforts have failed to stop this, Greece effectively and many would think rightly, could intercept and hinder these disturbing incursions? Or would that be committing natocide?
I think very dangerous the complexity of the UN SC wording, and some interpreting it to mean it is open-season, for anyone other than Russia, Syria and Iraq to go bombing anywhere and anything in Syria and the surrounding area. Those stealing the oil, in vast operations of tankers and ad-hoc pipelines are stealing partly from the Syrian government, but mostly, stealing from from the Syrian people. Turkey, like Britain, nothing more than a catspaw for the US-dominated NATO, doing the dirty, bloody work for the repellant US regime and its more terrifying deep-state elements, door-mat snivelling client-states laying down their good sense and name for the race hate and the greed of the Zionist elite. Russia and Syria seem to have been happy enough with the French show of malice and revenge against monsters partly of its own creation, its not clear if their action was helpful in sending US-mercenary gang ISIS into a tail-spin or had their own narrower objectives, either ways Arabs are dying, their homes, towns, whole society destroyed, Israel is happy too, but its demographic timebomb ticks on and cannot be defused.
Take on all that’s been said about, historic shifting of the Border, the larger area still recognisably once part of League of Nations mandated Syria. That the Turkish idea of their airspace incorporates a completely unilateral, bogus, exclusion-zone of their own imagination. At the Saker link above, the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation, say ‘objective’ radar data show the Russian pilot’s plane did not enter Turkish airspace, can the CNN (that well known purveyor of poop) snapshot also be called objective, might better evidence become available with time? It is axiomatic too that the Turkish fighter jets MUST be violating Syrian airspace constantly in their supporting role to centre-stage pep-pilled prima donna ISIS the Terrible.
[mods this is a duplicate comment, with a link removed, original might be in spam bin]
N_ No, I just linked to the article.
“I’m beginning to agree with Putin, it’s really that bad.”
Lol! I know that feeling, what a fkn mess the world is becoming. Tony_O may well be onto something with the occult angle in his link.
@ Tony_0pmoc 10:17 pm
Great post.
Erdogan in 2012: Brief Airspace Violations Can’t Be Pretext for Attack
Turkey has cited airspace violations as its justification for shooting down a Russian Su-24 bomber on Tuesday. But only three years ago, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan specifically stated that such actions should “never be a pretext for an attack.”
In response to the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish fighter jets on Tuesday, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan insisted that the military’s actions were justified.
“We did not want this situation to happen, but everybody has to respect Turkey’s right to defend its borders,” he told reporters, adding that the military’s actions were “fully in line with Turkey’s rules of engagement.”
© Sputnik/ Dmitriy Vinogradov
Turkey Claims No Knowledge Jet Shot Down Near Syrian Border Was Russian
Yet, three years ago, Erdogan had somewhat different thoughts on the matter.
In 2012, Ankara accused Syria of shooting down a Turkish F-4 Phantom. That plane crash-landed in the Mediterranean after veering into Syrian airspace. In response, an outraged Erdogan lambasted the Syrian military for acting in haste.
“A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack,” he told Parliament at the time.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030698044/erdogan-airspace-violation-contradiction.html#ixzz3sSBZtSIk
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/military/20151125/1030698044/erdogan-airspace-violation-contradiction.html#ixzz3sSBSPge7
This is an act of revenge. Erdogan wass pissed off because his sons convoy of stolen Syrian oil has just been obliterated. The more aggressive/perverted habba has been on duty today, they need to get their personalities more aligned. Anon1 should be fired, he’s got less credibility than Dershowitz and uses the phrase ‘anti-semitic’ more than Abe Foxman.
These are very polite terrorists, they always excuse themselves before setting off mortars and tow missiles cricket fashion indeed; Awfully sorry old chaps we hope you won’t mind getting this missile slammed into your home/house/bunker/apc/etc
This is kind of, little bit pregnant and Little bit virgin and shows the degree of departure for realties experienced by the warmongering banksters agents in charge of the Western governments! Anyone disagreeing with the said vassals is a “West hating Fury Monkey” and a poopy pants to boot whom should not be listened to!
Also the said moderate rebels only use Captagon/Fenethylline in moderation, and don’t rape the “slave” women and boys as often as the extremist rebels, and on Sundays take time out to chill out and perhaps have a race of some sorts.
The narrative is getting crazier by the second and if anyone so much as mentions it, they get it in the neck, as skinner did from Hammond in the hoc!
We’re approaching critical mass on the formula for the device. It’s a shame we can’t test first to see what will happen if NATO decides this is the time to detonate the Doomsday Machine on a Dr. Strangelove military expedition.
All we need is another General Grove to match the fantasy of General Jack Ripper.
Shot down the helicopter too, sent by Russia or Syria to pick up the downed crew, does that mean the helicopter crew also have been murdered in cold blood?
ERDOGAN THE HORSE LOVER
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=570_1448395299#5JXUX6bw15RLxRgU.99
Downed Russian pilot’s corpse getting abused by the “rebels” all in a moderate way of course
NB those of delicate disposition best avoid the video.
It is possible Putin wants the Horrible Member for ISIS North, David Cameron, to renew the elephant shite Trident, on the basis of never interrupting your enemy’s dumb servant when he’s making a costly and stupid mistake that will indebt for generations to come, to the military-industrial cartels, and keep them ruled by a plutocratic elite that own those same cartels, forever more. Russia the competing weapons supplier, wouldn’t want peace accidentally breaking out either. Weapons of global apocalypse, tension routinely ratcheted-up and folks not knowing if the world is going to end today or next week, help sell costly macho lucky charms to posturing politician Dave, selflessly acting on behalf of an ungrateful frozen hungry populace, some lucky enough to slave at the bomb factories for extra rations.
I have never complained about the moderation on this site before, but I am now.
Anon1 regularly makes offensive and inflammatory comments about Muslims. Tonight (24 Nov, 2015 – 6:37 pm), his sly contribution to the continual demonisation of Islam came in the form of this ‘joke’ :
“I called the Islamic Samaritans today. When I told them I felt suicidal, they got all excited and asked if I wanted a pilots licence.”
I concocted a parallel joke about Jews using the exact same phrasing. My point was obvious : if Anon1’s ‘joke’ was acceptable, so must mine be. Even Anon1 tacitly conceded as much because rather than play his well worn anti-semitic card, he conceded it was ‘a not bad joke’ or some such. He had to, he was in a trap of his own making. Now, having spent the night entertaining visitors, I return to the blog to find my ‘joke’ and all references to it carefully expunged while Anon1’s is still there. If there was any discussion about it prior to their removal, I am unaware of it.
I strongly request that whoever deleted my comments explain why it is apparently OK to make sick inflammatory jokes about Muslims but not about Jews. I posted the Muslim ‘joke and the Jewish version side by side in the same comment. The context was clear – the jewish joke cannot be declared offensive without conceding that the initial Muslim joke was equally offensive. If I had returned to find all traces of BOTH ‘jokes’ deleted that would have been fair enough, I’d made my point. But whoever deleted one and not the other is guilty of selective censorship. They are effectively proclaiming that this blog favours (for what ever reason) Jews over Muslims.
The point I made was not anti-Semitic. It was anti-bigot.
I understand why an anti-Establishment blog must defend itself from even false claims of anti-Semitism. However a clear misjustice has been done tonight which does not reflect well on the free-thinking spirit which I believe Craig tries to encourage. In the absence of an explanation for tonight’s events, I request that either my comments are re-instated or the relevant ones of Anon1 are deleted. Anything less and you are surrendering the blog to bigots.
Firstly..Anyone who Dreams that wwIII aint already on.. Dream away..Wish i could… Anyone Who thinks Turkey Acted Alone – without U.S.. Dream right along.
Node
Atz shocking… Standing with ya Bro
Craig said,“Turkish-sponsored Turkmen rebels in Syria ..”
The Russians are talking about Chechens.
Martin Chulov elucidates (or maybe obfuscates) even more here:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/vladimir-putin-turkey-isis-terrorists-warplane-analysis
Who’s right?