I was watching This Week on the BBC last night, and Andrew Neil teased John Nicolson that the SNP had given up campaigning for Independence, and never mentioned it any more. I have known John since student days, and much respect him. He is a very professional man and put in a very professional performance on the show. He can be relied on, despite his arch asides, to follow a party line.
How did John reply to the charge that the SNP had stopped campaigning for Independence? Did he reply, “No Andrew, we remain fully committed to the goal of Independence and that is our number one priority.”?
No.
He said “we have to respect the decision of the electorate”, a line taken straight from Nicola Sturgeon.
The problem with this is that it is exactly the Blairite line. Liz Kendall argued in effect that the electorate voted Tory, so Labour have to be Red Tories to respect the electorate.
It is a trite phrase. Nobody would argue you should disrespect the electorate. But it then elides into a distortion. To respect the verdict of the electorate means to accept your loss on this occasion and the processes of the state proceed on that basis, without any attempt to subvert the democratic decision. It does NOT mean the losing side had to change its beliefs, go quiet, or stop campaigning ready for the next time.
Since the referendum I have spoken on many stages in favour of Independence across Scotland, under the aegis of a whole variety of organisations only a minority of which are anathema to the SNP. Yet it occurs to me that of all the distinguished people I have shared platforms with, I have not witnessed a single one of the SNP’s MPs argue for Independence. To my certain knowledge they have declined many invitations to do so.
The SNP instead is setting out its stall as a kinder and more efficient manager of the governmental institutions of Scotland within the UK. It is elevating managerialism into a cult. Forget Independence and admire John Swinney’s figures. This is reinforced by another managerialist subtext, “the only organised opposition at Westminster.” Opposing the Tories is undoubtedly a good thing. But all this is symptomatic of the SNP becoming over-comfortable within the governmental institutions of the United Kingdom. All the energy expended pointlessly on the glorified local council powers of the Scotland Act while our country is dragged into yet another neo-con war against the will of the Scottish people.
When the media were promoting a narrative of potential ill-behaviour by new SNP MP’s, Tommy Sheppard famously declared “We have not come to act up, but to settle up!” What precisely have the SNP MP’s done that showed a scintilla of desire to “settle up” and end the Union? Where are the Parnellite tactics? A more honest declaration would be:
“We have not come to settle up, but to settle in!”
John Nicolson was led on to discussing his prospects of re-election last night, in response to a joke about Michael Portillo’s defeat. Andrew Neil gently reminded him he was not meant to want to be in Westminster long term. I am willing to bet a million pounds with anybody that the SNP structure is already giving more thought to defending its Westminster seats than to ending the union before the next Westminster election. I think deep down everybody reading this will find they believe that too.
Leadership loyalists will respond with a) more managerialism – we run the country better blah blah blah – and b), the argument that the SNP has to entrench in power before trying again for independence and win trust by – more managerialism. Oh OK, that’s actually the same argument. They don’t have another one.
The problem with this is gravity. In politics no party remains at the heights of popularity forever. Events take their toll. I suspect that what Nicola agreed with Dave this week about extending the extreme surveillance state to Scotland will be a little wave of erosion once we get told of it. The SNP will, regardless of anything I think or write, sweep the Holyrood elections. But that will likely be the high point of their absolute dominance of Scottish politics.
Let me put it this way. It is definitely a possibility that the coming real domination of both MPs and MSPs will never happen again. If the SNP do not even try to use that dominance to deliver Independence, then what is the point of the SNP?
Oh sorry, I forgot. They manage the institutions better, and are an effective opposition at Westminster. That apparently is the point. But not what I joined for.
eddie-g My main concern is that the current Central Banking model is completely flawed, these institutions will fail spectacularly and be cursed for the disaster they are.
Interest rates tell you all you need to know about this system, it is on the brink of collapse, a giant ponzi scheme if ever there was one.
Please tell me what they’re going to do with interest rates when the next financial crisis comes? What are they going to do to ‘restore confidence’ in a collapsing market?
Incidentally gold backed currencies lasted successfully for thousands of years.
The current fiat central banking model has barely lasted 45 years off a gold standard, so just how stable has that been for us so far?
One dark day please remember your words “you don’t sound like you know what you’re talking about” told you this.
Craig Wilson
It has taken us decades to get to the verge of independence with the SNP. You would throw all of that away in the hope that one RISE MSP might do overnight what has taken at least half a century.
First, that RISE MSP has to get elected. That means they have to go from zero to something over 5% in a few months. Aye, right!
Then you suggest that this lone RISE MSP might force a referendum on an SNP administration even if that administration considered that the time was not right. Even if we were to accept the fantasy, is that your idea of a party acting responsibly?
Finally – and I do mean finally as this facility is evidently intended to discourage discussion – we don’t have time to throw away the SNP and start from scratch. Our economy and our democratic institutions and our public services are, in case you hadn’t noticed, under daily attack. You fart about with your fantaay politics if you like. Those of us who are determined to take the fight for independence forward will be doing everything in our power to make an even bigger stick out of the SNP.
Habbbakuk (combat cant)
I like to use the term “rightful” as it conveys the dual idea of that which is our entitlement, and that which is right in a moral or ethical sense.
I hold that the constitutional question is just that – a constitutional question. It has nothing whatever to do with economic arguments, which can never be satisfactorily resoled anyway. Independence is purely a matter of rectifying a constitutional anomaly. It is about righting an ancient wrong.
All the rest is just fluff and distraction. Independence is the default status of nations. We are denied that status by an ancient wrong. It is time to put it right.
“Scotland was promised FFA, Home Rule, Federalism. Where is it?”
I remember the deal being made, with those who voted no, that if they won Scotland would get extra powers.
Those who voted yes turned the deal down so the deal was not with them, they refused the deal.
So why is it the yes voters who are doing all the griping now?
Who’s griping –we told you so. I’d guess then you concede the Vow was a despicable fraud, welcome to the carnival. Glad you’ve finally joined us Fred, never thought I’d see the day, but happy to welcome you all the same. Go easy though initially, the zeal of the convert can be heady stuff, I’d stick to shandy if I were in your agitated state.
Those who voted No are too ashamed to make a fuss, ashamed at being identified as being so easily fooled, to admit they’ve been taken for and possibly were complete mugs, or knew all along it was a pile of steaming shite, but they’re used to that treatment. Begging for crumbs for themselves for their misplaced dumb unthinking loyalty, must be the sorriest spectacle I could imagine. They salivate on demand, conditioned to expect sugar-coated pills of poison, again and again. Even when it has long stopped coming.
Can’t agree with you on this one Craig, its only been just over a year since the referendum, which some forget we lost.
It will take time to persuade enough folk that Scotland can be a successful independent country. The SNP put forward credible policies on currency, pensions and the EU, the unionist propaganda machine lied their arse off, and some swithering Scots were to afraid to vote yes.
The next referendum will need to have bullet proof answers, or the same thing will happen again, unless at least 60% of Scots want independence then the unionist bullshit won’t matter.
When will this happen, it’s unclear Sturgeon claims when the people want it to, do we have a 60% majority yet, I think not. What then can be done to bring this majority about, in a reasonable timescale. That is the question we must find an answer too.
As for having 56 SNP MP’s at Westminster, well, we’ve got keep an eye on the devil somehow. Until such time we need no longer.
But I find myself agreeing with you that it’s possible that the SNP may become complacent, and miss the window of opportunity. We have however came quite a distance since 1999.
“I like to use the term “rightful” as it conveys the dual idea of that which is our entitlement, and that which is right in a moral or ethical sense.
I hold that the constitutional question is just that – a constitutional question. It has nothing whatever to do with economic arguments, which can never be satisfactorily resoled anyway. Independence is purely a matter of rectifying a constitutional anomaly. It is about righting an ancient wrong.
All the rest is just fluff and distraction. Independence is the default status of nations. We are denied that status by an ancient wrong. It is time to put it right.”
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Well put Peter A. Bell
1603 was a bad year, as was 1707.
Even the Hungarians of the Austro-Hugarian empire eventually called it a day.
“Who’s griping –we told you so. I’d guess then you concede the Vow was a despicable fraud, welcome to the carnival.”
The Scottish government have the power to raise taxes which is what they wanted.
Why are they not using them?
“Craig lost all credibility to advocate for Scottish Idependence when he rejected the right of the population of the Crimea to decide their own future.”
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Oh Macky, do stop masturbating in front of your photo of Mr Putin.
“Retaking” Crimea was Mr Putin’s bit of masturbation in public.
“It has taken us decades to get to the verge of independence with the SNP. You would throw all of that away in the hope that one RISE MSP might do overnight what has taken at least half a century.
First, that RISE MSP has to get elected. That means they have to go from zero to something over 5% in a few months. Aye, right!”
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Peter Rise, are proposing to raise £100,000 through crowfunding for next years elections, it’s a big big asked for Colin Fox, (ex-SSP MSP) to reach that goal.
John Curtice a Strathclyde Uni professor, believes Rise can have place on the left in Scottish politics, but not enough of an influence to make worthy change.
I agree with you that presently the SNP are the main vehicle to independence for Scotland, it has taken decades to reach this point. We must get it right the next time around.
Fredi
“They could have defaulted on the apartheid debt passed on to them..”
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Yes, that would have been a great beginning for a new state, wouldn’t it.
BTW, financial markets don’t apply adjectives to sovereign debt (even when the adjective is “apartheid”).
And I’d advise you against drumming up Naomi Klein in support of your “arguments”; it’s a sure sign they’re fallacious.
Node
“On October 1 , 1948, the All-Palestine government declared an independent Palestinian state in all of Palestine region with Jerusalem as its capital”
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Was that before or after the Palestinians rejected the partition plan that had been agreed by a substantial majority at the United Nations?
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“Israel responded with a genocidal campaign which continues to this day.”
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Was that before or after Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian armies attacked the new State of Israel? (and had their arses kicked)
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Israeli Navy opens fire on Palestinian fishing boats ;Israeli Army position opens fire on Gaza farmers ; Israeli Army raids refugee camp: deaths, injuries, destruction and vandalism ;Night peace disruption and/or home invasions in 4 refugee camps and 9 towns and villages; 3 attacks (3 Israeli ceasefire violations); 23 raids including home invasions; 4 beaten – 2 dead – 11 injured; 3 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage; 28 taken prisoner – 1 detained –
and last but not least:
121 restrictions of movement”
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Examples of “ongoing genocide”? Must try harder! :0
(recommended reading: the Shorter OED, in 2 vols)
Peter A Bell
Thank you for your (courteous) reply at 16h30.
RoS
“The SNP put forward credible policies on currency, pensions and the EU…”
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Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that after the UK govt said that it would not give an independent Scotland what it wanted on the currency, that SNP policy thereby became no longer credible.
Am I mis-remembering?
Fredi –
“Incidentally gold backed currencies lasted successfully for thousands of years.”
That’s just awesomely delusional.
As for the difference of opinion between Craig Wilson and Peter Bell, I will stick with the old Viking laws, particularly the one that goes:
‘Use varied methods of attack’
At the end of the battle of the Somme, the answer to winning the war was not to attack again immediately in the same place using the same weapons and tactics. It was to absorb the lessons learned, devise new weapons and tactics and wait for the correc tmoment to strike.
We should be ready for when the time comes, but it probably won’t be soon.
“Correct me if I’m wrong but I was under the impression that after the UK govt said that it would not give an independent Scotland what it wanted on the currency, that SNP policy thereby became no longer credible.
Am I mis-remembering?”
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Habb, George Osborne and Mark Carney did indeed rule out Scotland using the pound. Scotland however could’ve used the pound without permission, far from being incredulous, it was perfectly feasible. Pegging a currency isn’t that rare, quite a few nations have pegged their currencies to the US dollar.
The problem in Scotland is that there is no effective opposition and no other party has a cats chance in hell of securing our Independence. Till that changes vote SNP all the way . To devide and conquer a unionist aim. Think twice about falling into that trap.
By the way Craig we need guys like you to be a big picture person and getting roped in with politicians will cramp your style.
I thought I’d staggered into some, surreal Kafkaesque, world, that only exists in the space between dimensions, when I read that Vlad “the Impailer” Putin, claimed that US presidential candidate Donald “no Mexicans or Muslims”Trump, is outstanding.
http://www.ameripublications.com/putin-lauds-usa-presidential-candidate-trump-as-outstanding/52941
I sat my Earl Grey tea down and mused why Putin would make public such a remark, what does Trump the terminator have in common with Putin the pulveriser?
Then it hit me they’re both egotistical pr*cks.
Republicofscotland
” Scotland however could’ve used the pound without permission, far from being incredulous, it was perfectly feasible. Pegging a currency isn’t that rare, quite a few nations have pegged their currencies to the US dollar.”
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Yes indeed, thereby losing control of monetary policy.
I hereby pronounce you economically illiterate 🙂
Scotland can NEVER be free unless the Freemason Lodge in Edinburgh is neutered. Simples.
“Yes indeed, thereby losing control of monetary policy.
I hereby pronounce you economically illiterate”
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Very doubtful, if that would’ve been the case, a unnamed treasury official inadvertently blurted out that Scotland would’ve kept Sterling in the event of independence.
Stanley-Morgan employee, Lord Darling of Ruilanish, also said during a live debate that theyd be no reason why an independent Scotland couldn’t do well.
The reality of course and those in the know acknowledge this, is that preventing Scotland using Sterling was a no go from the start. It would’ve damaged the rest of the UK’s economy.
Many businesses trade back and forth across the border, effectively the PM, Mark Carney and George Osborne, would’ve incurred revenue loss.
“Scotland can NEVER be free unless the Freemason Lodge in Edinburgh is neutered. Simples.”
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NWO is upon us.
Don’t you mean the Mother lodge, which is situated in Kilwinning.
http://www.mk0.com
Node 3.17pm.
Since you’re on the subject, isn’t rather unusual that Daesh never attack Israel, one would be inclined to think that such a “Evil death cult” as messer Cameron called them would be foaming at the mouth to attack Israel, but they haven’t and they won’t.
Because Daesh are a Western/Israeli backed force propped up by the sales of stolen oil. The US and Israeli agenda in Syria is regime change, from Assad to a puppet president compliant with US and Israeli wishes. Furthermore Israel after appeasing the US, will take control of the Golan Heights oil fields.
Oil fields that legally still belong to Syria, meanwhile Israel has been lobbying the US to be allowed to permanently annex the Golan Heights, this is where Genie oil comes into play.
Only Russian, and Assad forces, with the help of Iran, stands between Israel and her latest goal.
Thanks Craig. You have articulated my thoughts…a growing unease with SNP attitude. I met with my MP for the first time recently and it is clear his focus is on constituency matters. Nothing wrong with that, he would be heavily criticised otherwise. But he seemed ambivalent toward the MSM, and uncomfortable with thought that the SNP would openly welcome Wings, or Bella or Paul Kavanagh to the party.
His reaction to Derek Bateman’s concerns about the First Minister’s media drinks event being exclusively for the conventional was simply that “that is her role”. I’m still scratching my head.
“Incidentally gold backed currencies lasted successfully for thousands of years. ”
Well… it’s a bit more complicated than that these days.
All the same, it wouldn’t do any harm for everyone to keep a kilo or so ( 99.99% purity, stamped 999.9 mind, no impure rubbish) in their safe. It can be quickly turned into hard cash if one finds themselves financially embarrassed at some point.
@RoS – you may be right the 666G communication between the devils is suddenly resulting in great empathy for the newly “oppressed” Druze amongst all the feedmans in the MSM. The vast oil stories may be true, all that remains is for inhouse canaries habba/anon to come up with some dershowitzian logic to support Druze separation from Syria, and that should confirm the Genie oil story.
“…isn’t rather unusual that Daesh never attack Israel, one would be inclined to think that such a “Evil death cult” as messer Cameron called them would be foaming at the mouth to attack Israel, but they haven’t and they won’t.
Because Daesh are a Western/Israeli backed force,” etc…
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They haven’t and they won’t because they can’t. Israel’s borders are ridiculously well protected. For example, there is an electrified security fence running the entire length of the Sinai that rains bombs down on you if you even touch it. It exists because of repeated attempts by foreign jihadists to carry out cross-border terrorist attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians.
As a non-Scottish British Unionist I was encouraged by the SNP victory for the very reasons you now find alarming because the SNP has consistently moved away from independence as it progressed into office and has become a stronger in Britain rather than independence party and a trend strengthened as its MPs go native in Westminster.
Their fortunes will wane as the other parties finally embrace the policies needed to save the Union such as localism and proportional representation in local and national elections.