Hillary Clinton is American, owned by financial interests to whom she is completely in thrall, a rabid neo-conservative warmonger, completely uncritical of Israel and focused for any claim to be progressive entirely on identity politics. Which is also a precise description of today’s Guardian newspaper. The once august and intellectual title is now a shrill cheerleader for far right Blairites and wealthy American feminists.
The Guardian is as unabashed in its support for Clinton as in its support for the Blairites. The stream of “feminist” articles about why it would advance the cause of women to have a deeply corrupt right winger in the White House is steadily growing into a torrent. It is a perfect example of what I wrote of a month ago, the cause of feminism being hijacked to neo-conservative ends.
Bernie Sanders is not perfect – nobody is. But he understands that obscene and still burgeoning wealth inequality is the greatest problem of western society, and that the state framework supporting crazed banking structures is the root cause of this. The support for him is a sign of the inevitable popular reaction to the extreme inequality of society. Sanders is channelling that reaction effectively.
The establishment therefore circles its wagons around Hillary Clinton. The hope is that women can be persuaded it is an act of misogyny simply to stand in her way. The other great establishment hope is that the Democrat party machinery is so strong in black communities, that black Americans can be in effect ordered to vote for a woman who epitomises the system which disadvantages them, rather than an apostle of genuine change in the economic order. I retain hope the establishment may find that black Americans are cleverer than that.
The machinery used to manipulate identity politics – racial and gender – is all that Clinton has. If Clinton beats Sanders, it will be the perfect demonstration of the fact that identity politics has become the enemy of progress in society.
In the field of identity, Bernie Sanders would be the first non-Christian President of the United States. Would that not be wonderful in a country whose politicians feel the need to genuflect to swarms of religious evolution-denying nutters who believe foreign wars are good because they presage the Rapture?
And would it not be great if the first President since Carter not in thrall to Israel were Jewish?
Clark; “Macky, you could still dispel my suspicions of your being on the Kremlin payroll2
Sorry Clark, but I don’t have to “prove” anything to anybody, much less try to cure you of your absurd paranoia, or total lack of perception, where real trolls are sincere and the sincere are trolls !; in fact as you have just mentioned again that participating on this Blog causes you to have “thoughts of suicide”, would it not be in your best interest not to dive into the cut & thrust of robust debates on a political blog ?
Sqounk really seems ideal for you, and you really do appear to be a much happier person there.
Ben, few people want my love or concern because it comes with me as a complete person and there are elements that they cannot stand. There is what I have learnt on this site, facts that contradict the world-view with which they are familiar. And there is my observation of their own faults and transgressions, which contradict their self-image.
Clark; My comment was directed at all who seem to relish their superior moral standing, as though ethics and mores are valid only by degree and our own is the benchmark for all others. This is easily accomplished for those who feel arrogance is a good substitute for confidence. All they have to do is dismantle some point of order with ridicule and their cat-bird seat is assured. When you are short of stature it is necessary to cut everyone off at the knees to elevate yourself. That is not your descriptor Clark.
Macky, you, and I, need to convince as many people as possible.
Unfortunately, your approach has convinced me that you may be paid to propagandise the Kremlin line. Look. This, from you:
These are insults; you have again indulged in trolling; you have attacked me as a person, not the argument I presented. And this:
Do you SERIOUSLY wish to exclude all the more sensitive souls from political debate? Do you believe, in your heart, that it is right and proper that political debate should consist of “cut and thrust”, analogous to fighting and killing with edged steel? That would seem a recipe for perpetual conflict, since opinions drive democracy and, in turn, politics determines foreign policy and military action.
But then, maybe you like conflict; I have only your words to judge by.
Ben, 7:09 pm; thanks. Peace be with you.
@Macky
“and for my efforts was/am repeatedly accused of being on the pay-roll of the Kremlin !”
Not by me – the KGB is rather more choosy and subtle in who it gets to do its propaganda.
And I have never excused Israeli barbarism against the Palestinians – go and look at the record and find a single example. Just because I don’t support Hamas terrorism against Israelis and Palestinians who do not toe their line – it doesn’t mean that I am excusing the excesses of the IDF. You will of course always lie to support the line.
Resident Dissident, you did praise me when I was asking Macky and John Goss if they would knowingly promote the Kremlin’s agenda. And this from you:
is nonsense. All those people employed in Russia to post from fake accounts onto social media; they are NOT employed by the KGB, well, definitely not directly, in fact I’ve never seen evidence of KGB involvement, though of course there may be.
Resident Dissident, you could do much to alleviate the stress I suffer commenting at this site, and you could help me learn quicker, too. So very often you phrase things thus:
or:
It seems supercilious and arrogant, very know-it-all and as such provokes hostile responses.
Further, there is no reason that any particular commenter should have read or heard of any specific thing; maybe your job or background has led you to know specific things, but we all have different pressures upon our time. Please just present the viewpoints or evidence and link to an appropriate source; that way, people can learn directly from your comment without having to work out where to find the information.
RD, to truly promote peace we need to find it in our hearts. We need to treat others with compassion, not as if they were imbeciles or inferiors.
Clark
I genuinely do not believe that Macky and John Goss are being paid to push the Kremlin line – they do it as a result of their genuine conviction, although I do believe Mr Goss may be given a line to push by his friends in Eastern Ukraine since every time they build up their activities he does seek to given them cover by suddenly make attacks on the Ukrainians out of the blue. But I’m afraid the only proof for this will be on Mr Goss’s inbox.
Of course the co-ordinated Russian social media operations are done with the consent and support of Putin and the KGB.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
Macky and others make false accusations about me supporting atrocities against the Palestinians among many others – how do you expect me to respond with love and kisses?
Resident Dissident, thanks for making that clear.
By trying your best.
Really, I do think it’s very important; the results of politics that we witness are frequently exceedingly violent.
Macky claims that political discussion rightly consists of “cut and thrust”, and anyone who finds this distressing should leave; Habbabkuk seems to take a similar stance. Maybe this is the one political issue upon which you all agree. Again and again on these threads we see arguments escalate and polarise until all hopes of cooperation are lost; indeed, comprehension becomes almost impossible.
Clark; “These are insults; you have again indulged in trolling”
No wonder you can’t realise a troll posting right under your nose if you think saying that somebody lacks perception or is paranoid is “trolling” ! These are rather tame words regularly used even in mundane debate exchanges, nevermind political discussions ! Further you pick-up on any words that I use & hypocritically state that I’m making a “personal attack”, whereas you of course never do ?! What’s more is that you are very selective, as you mainly use this angle against me, or John Goss. On the latest Thread Craig has just referred to the people you constantly stick-up for as “resident trolls”, where’s your outrage at Craig ? Not only have you just given a free pass to RD’s “the KGB is rather more choosy and subtle in who it gets to do its propaganda” which is just a cheap insult, ie a personal attack against me, but you took issue with it only because it was opposing your usual accusation, ie your personal attack & nasty smear, that I am on the Kremlin payroll !
You have no moral ground or logical consistency to cry about “personal attacks”.
Clark; “Do you SERIOUSLY wish to exclude all the more sensitive souls from political debate?”
Well yes if they are so sensitive that participation in it causes them to seriously contemplate killing themselves !!
Resident Dissident; “And I have never excused Israeli barbarism against the Palestinians – go and look at the record and find a single example.”
Here’s one that I particularly remembered & managed to find again;
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2015/07/wha-wad-be-a-traitor-knave/comment-page-5/#comment-537314
So in response to a child being murdered by the IDF for throwing a stone at an armoured vehicle, apart from stating that the IDF would have been justified in firing plastic bullets, your real concern was the bad PR this sort of killing causes Israel !
There have been other examples of course, but I’m not going to spend more time looking for them, instead all I need do is point out that afaik you have never condemned Israeli crimes on your own volition, only when pressed to, yet on the other hand you are very keen on condemning perceived Arab/Muslim & Russian crimes, and advocating for Muslim countries to be attacked.
You are certainly more careful than the other Israeli Apologists, in that you use other tactics, like levelling ridiculous accusations of anti-Semtism at Pro-Palestinian Posters, in fact at one stage you were doing on such a daily basis that you will recall that I started calling you the “Anti-Semite Witch-Finder General” !; another tactic that you use is that of distraction, at first I didn’t notice it, but when I paid attention it was blatant, namely on Threads concerning Israel you would always introduce Putin or Russia, and so always succeeded in baiting John Goss into derailing the focus of the thread; then we have on record your support for pro-Zionists like David Aaronovitch, Nick Cohen, Islamophobe Christoper Hitchens, even Oliver Kamm I think I can recall, which also certainly indicate where you stand iro the Palestinians & Israel.
Macky, your phrase “your absurd paranoia, or total lack of perception…” is trolling because it merely attacks me, the person; at no point does it describe what I’m supposedly paranoid about, nor what it is that I allegedly fail to perceive. Issues are absent; it is purely personal.
It is specifically trolling against me as you KNOW that I’ve been having psychological problems and can’t get treatment, yet you proceed to attack my self esteem using pseudo-psychology. That is like attacking an injured person by specifically targeting their injury; the act of a bully. However you are right that the instance above is mild, by your standards. On one occasion you made your threat plain, stating “you know I can demolish your emotional state if you continue to oppose me” or words to that effect.
Actually, attacking in this way rather than simple swearing or insults is clever and devious, a fault of yours that you frequently accuse others of. You tailor your attack at vulnerabilities specific to me and thereby preserve your public image.
I “use this angle” against you specifically because you are the one who attacks ME; this is the basis of my “selectivity” – simply self defence!
My feelings of suicide flow from my growing disgust of human nature; the realisation that humans are innately aggressive – you being a prime example. This destroys my hope for humanity’s future. I used to be a great believer in democracy; I thought that people’s basic goodness could save the day. How wrong I was…
I have watched you manipulate commenters by the simplest of methods, and most of them fall for it. Your system is simple. When anyone criticises Kremlin policy you insult them, describe them as stupid or mentally defective, and/or denounce them as a troll (by which you really mean a shill). Commenters fall into line with depressing regularity, further depleting my hope. Those few who stand up to you, you subject to sustained bullying and smearing, like you do to Resident Dissident. You are so consistent in this that I have wondered if you have been trained in the art or if you learned it from a manual.
And you deliberately attack Craig and his site and degrade its community in pursuit of these objectives. You feign friendship towards commenters such as Mary and John Goss, but you are merely using them. Never do you warn these people when they link to nonsense that will damage their credibility, as any true friend would. You even encourage them to see bias against them from this site’s moderation, even after your continuous suggestions led Mary to see non-existent bias when in fact she’d made a simple mistake. This, along with your feigned friendship (embarrassing to witness) had a similarly detrimental effect upon poor Ishmael.
I asked you directly if you would deliberately further Kremlin objectives. A simple denial would have sufficed but you could not bring yourself to say it, instead denouncing me as “Nazi” for asking the question!
The above constitutes my evidence that you propagandise for the Kremlin, using manipulation to build a cabal of opposition to Craig on his own site. As you see, I have many observations and reasons backing my belief, so your accusations of absurdity, paranoia and lack of perception are empty, merely insults. You are an abusive, manipulative bully, and it is your support for it that has greatly contributed to my mistrust of the Russian government.
Resident Dissident, Macky has saved me a lot of time and effort searching in vain for evidence against you. Clearly it doesn’t exist or she would have linked to it.
Please try to develop a more compassionate style of disagreement so as not to provoke so many pointless reactions against your arguments.
Clark
20 Feb, 2016 – 12:59 pm
am here for a short while…. you still up…
Brian: I’m concerned too.
nothing on Squonk Glen…Gawd..just he was vibrant ..wait till i see him. wee bugger Lol
Macky: That’s a fairly impressive summary of your modus operandi to date, wouldn’t you say, by Clark just above there? If you’d like to provide a sincere counter, I’m all ears. On the other hand, if sticking the knife in, turning it with glee and then holding up the entrails as a warning to others is your response – then I’m inclined to suppose Clark hit it rather accurately there.
From Macky:
This is the sort of heartless, faux innocent observing “What… Me?” that one would expect from a professional huckster, the sort of thing the rancid Littlejohns or the Katie Hopkins of our incredibly corrupt media would weasel away from, when distancing themselves from the damage they cause, the hatred they stir up.
I dunno Macky. Whatever cause you’re trying to promote, it comes at such a cost that anyone who sees what’s _really_ going on sees it as a deep turn-off. I wanted to believe the Russian/Soviet principle was a lot more sound than our filthy, destructive capitalism.
Clark Has a Special Thing..(to protect others)
I had no idea what i was getting into…the work load…At Doune…We share a Shyness…
.. so i observed Clark watching me ..at times ..its an inner thing…not personnal
Macky
Your post really just demonstrates your dishonesty and how you will lie and distort words to fit your argument – my post made it clear that the IDF had no right to take a child’s life just because he was throwing stones at them, and I don’t give a damm about the IDF’s PR despite your claim to the contrary. Your aim is to provoke while at the same time contributing nothing of meaning – in other words Comrade Vshynsky you are nothing but a troll.
It is quite noticeable how you have a pretty much unequalled capacity to fall out even with those who are near to your political views because they don’t exactly follow the line. My guess is that may well be problem in your personal life – and my advice would be to seek help.
“and I don’t give a damm about the IDF’s PR despite your claim to the contrary.”
Which is of course a point I made abundantly clear at the time – but you still perpetuate your own lie.
Clark; “Macky, your phrase “your absurd paranoia, or total lack of perception…” is trolling because it merely attacks me, the person;”
You really need to look-up the meaning of trolliing, as you will find it’s the delibrate avoidance of honesr debate, the complete oppsoite of what I do, as anybody who is familair with my postings will see that I do try to address the point of issue, and the point of issue when I made those remarks is your delusion that I’m a paid shill for the Kremlin,
Clark: “It is specifically trolling against me as you KNOW that I’ve been having psychological problems and can’t get treatment”
Exactly why I have done my best to avoid engaging with you, but you persist in attacking me. You know you have issues, but you still jump into the heated environment of a political blog, which is bad not just for you personally, but for everybody else on the blog; firstly you cause worry & concern to everybody whenever you get angry, secondly people have to treat you very differently & measure each & every word in case you take it to mean something more than they intend, they often have to let some of your comments pass for the same reason, as I’m sure that many Posters don”t feel comfortable addressing or engaging with many of your points.
Clark: “On one occasion you made your threat plain, stating “you know I can demolish your emotional state if you continue to oppose me” or words to that effect”
That is an outright shameless lie, no wonder you added “or words to that effect”; I don’t threaten people. it’s not my style; the most I could have possible said was something like “I’m holding back on how I would normally respond to people because I know you are highly-strung”, completely different meaning to your fictious quote.
Clark; “I “use this angle” against you specifically because you are the one who attacks ME; this is the basis of my “selectivity” – simply self defence!”
So you can hypocritically expect to attack me without allowing me to defend myself ! I repear that I do my best to avoid engaging with you, and I really wish you would do the same.
Clark: “My feelings of suicide flow from my growing disgust of human nature; the realisation that humans are innately aggressive – you being a prime example.”
So you do you insist on addressing/attacking me ?! Well, we both know tha answer to that, you cannot stomach the fact that I won’t accept Craig’s line on Russia, and I’m not shy about stating it. That for you is the ultimate crime, of disloyalty, that you feel is your duty to stamp-out.
Clark: “I have watched you manipulate commenters by the simplest of methods, and most of them fall for it. Your system is simple. When anyone criticises Kremlin policy you insult them, describe them as stupid or mentally defective, and/or denounce them as a troll (by which you really mean a shill). Commenters fall into line with depressing regularity, further depleting my hope. Those few who stand up to you, you subject to sustained bullying and smearing, like you do to Resident Dissident. You are so consistent in this that I have wondered if you have been trained in the art or if you learned it from a manual.”
Not only complete delusions, but even worse actual projections.
Clark: “And you deliberately attack Craig and his site and degrade its community in pursuit of these objectives. You feign friendship towards commenters such as Mary and John Goss, but you are merely using them. Never do you warn these people when they link to nonsense that will damage their credibility, as any true friend would. You even encourage them to see bias against them from this site’s moderation, even after your continuous suggestions led Mary to see non-existent bias when in fact she’d made a simple mistake. This, along with your feigned friendship (embarrassing to witness) had a similarly detrimental effect upon poor Ishmael.”
Ditto, complete delusions/projections.
Clark: “I asked you directly if you would deliberately further Kremlin objectives. A simple denial would have sufficed but you could not bring yourself to say it, instead denouncing me as “Nazi” for asking the question!”
Yes, during your impressive re-enactment of the role of Joseph McCarthy, I resented giving your accusation the dignity of a reply, and I still do; McCarthy once received the famous reply of, “Have you no sense of decency?” if I really have to be any clearer.
Clark; “The above constitutes my evidence that you propagandise for the Kremlin, using manipulation to build a cabal of opposition to Craig on his own site. As you see, I have many observations and reasons backing my belief, so your accusations of absurdity, paranoia and lack of perception are empty, merely insults. You are an abusive, manipulative bully, and it is your support for it that has greatly contributed to my mistrust of the Russian government.”
Complete & utter poopycock (yes this is the only safe lanuage I think you might just not get offended !) I once again ask you to please avoid engaging with me, and even avoid mentioning me in your comments, because sometimes some lies cannot be allowed to stand with a reply.
@Glenn & Brian, I know you think you are acting in Clark’s best interests, but in fact I’m sorry to say that you really are not; instead of encouraging his behaviour, if you really cared for Clark & consider him a friend, you would do the opposite.
@Resident Dissident, The only person being dishonest is yourself; you cannot change what you have written, which was’
“Shouldn’t the punishment fit the crime? If the IDF had thrown stones and/or plastic bullets back surely that would have been appropriate – and not made things worse by creating a martyr.”
To which I said; “apart from stating that the IDF would have been justified in firing plastic bullets, your real concern was the bad PR this sort of killing causes Israel !”
Nothing to say about all your other pro-Zionist tactics that I mentioned ?
“and what was my counter response to you comment about PR” I don’t give a damm about the IDF’s PR – never have done, never will – that construct is entirely your own and you were entirely dishonest in attributing it to me in the first place.
BTW your response to Clark really is just plain nasty and beyond the pale – you really should seek professional help.
Resident Dissident; “and what was my counter response to you comment about PR” I don’t give a damm about the IDF’s PR – never have done, never will – that construct is entirely your own and you were entirely dishonest in attributing it to me in the first place.”
You can now deny all you want, but your written record here contradicts your present protestations; your record is all here in black & white for others to see.
Resident Dissident;; “BTW your response to Clark really is just plain nasty and beyond the pale – you really should seek professional help.”
Yes of course, it’s one-way traffic again, when I defend myself by pointing out the truth as I see it, its ” nasty and beyond the pale”, when others do it towards me, that’s fine; you’re a hypocrite as well as all your other attributes.
“You can now deny all you want, but your written record here contradicts your present protestations;”
No it doesn’t – the only person who mentioned PR was yourself. Thick as well as a nasty troll I’m afraid.
Resident Dissident; “No it doesn’t – the only person who mentioned PR was yourself.”
You wrote “made things worse by creating a martyr” ie Israel has made things worse for itself by killing a stone throwing child, because it creates martyrs; why is making martyrs bad ? because it makes Israel look bad, ie it’s PR for Israel !
The meaning is very clear despite your pathetic wriggling.
Where was the condemnation for the murder of the child ?
typo; “ie it’s BAD PR for Israel”