For those of you who believe that we have a diverse media, I present without much comment these tweets between Murdoch, Guardian and Independent television employees. It is interesting that their two less famous sympathisers who are included in these exchanges are both primarily motivated by support for Israel. Simon Myerson’s twitter ID self-describes him as “Ocean_Going Zionist QC”. Tomas Doran’s twitter ID self-describes him as “Friend of the Jews.” Of course Freeman, Daisley and Cohen have all been specifically cited on this blog in the past for their dreadful anti-Palestinian propaganda. All of these people are also fierce opponents of Scottish independence.
It is not the content of the twitter spat that is important – it is the links between these mainstream journos who pretend to represent opposing views, but combine to attack anybody who actually does so.
“It’s not about the nationalists many people voted for independence and didn’t support the SNP, you still don’t get it Fred, and you probably never will.”
I get it all right.
In spite of what has happened since, like the collapse of the oil industry, Nationalists still can’t admit they were wrong. They are driven by fanaticism not logic.
“In spite of what has happened since, like the collapse of the oil industry, Nationalists still can’t admit they were wrong. They are driven by fanaticism not logic.”
_______________
Logic Fred?
Is it logical to spend £167 billion quid on renewing Trident, whilst disabled and poor folk can’t make ends meet.
As for the price of oil, the low price is due to a glut, a glut man made, to weaken the Russian economy. The North sea oil industry is suffering in the process, so where is the broad shoulders of Westminster now the oil industry needs them? answer nowhere.
But why mention oil Fred, all the revenue from oil goes to the Treasury. Scotland’s economy doesn’t rely on oil. In an independent Scotland oil revenue would be a bonus.
There’s no argument that you can make that shows dependence is better than independence for a nations people.
“Logic Fred?”
Yes logic.
The majority of voters in Scotland voted against independence.
Fact.
The majority of voters in Scotland do not want independence.
Logic.
Scared into voting against their wishes?
Nationalist denial.
Giyane. I see some of your points. Though when have polities and personal ever really been separate? And can you define the edges of ‘acceptable’ Islam? I’m sure to your own satisfaction.
“the west, Through various devious means, such as brain-washing and torture, the West is trying to make Islam so revolting nobody in the West would ever think of embracing.”
Actually it’s what many think, imo from facts on the ground that ARE embraced by many Muslims. Not that it really stops other people.
No, imo this is not about attacking your religion. Just coincidental to larger aims of other western extremist fundamentalists, Who wouldn’t care less if material circumstance were different. like the most militant racists are the poor, (fed by the rich of course) if they had loads of money? who cares.
As to God, and those who impose any set of rules or authority on others. Set perimeters and framework. I think all the progressive aspects are stripped as soon as you try and lay this stuff in stone “organised religion”. Makes it fundamentally regressive to me.
You can’t expect no conflicts, and with nuance I do have many oppositions. I’m glad of the Muslim uk population, ‘it’ sure has issues, but I respect. The gross perversions can’t entirely be laid at whatever religions feet, as you can’t just separate them from the society they are in.
I’m not interested in Christianity for the same reasons. Just living in the organised religion of society is bad enough. I like change and growth, or just new things to keep me busy. But the arts, history, etc of that mix of ethnic cultures from that region are fascinating, very influential…
@Chris Rogers
Agree re. Brexit, and for almost identical reasons. The ubiquitous and secret ‘trade agreements’ peddled by the corporate and financial elite show just how much they like politically unresponsive supranational entities. The EU has become just that.
ps,
“devious means, such as brain-washing and torture”
I don’t think that does a lot for ‘the west’. But it’s really part of the system, don’t take it personal. There is a long line of imperialist victims. “white” uk nationals included.
@Canexpat
The Uk establishment is one the main proponents.
“The ubiquitous and secret ‘trade agreements’ peddled by the corporate and financial elite”
Peddled from the heart of our Establishment.
Chris Rogers wrote ” And then there is TTIP, which more or less seals the deal for me. No. No, No!”
I have added an exclamation mark after your latest No, Chirs to give it that little bit more punch.
I’m afraid that being outside the EU will nor safe you from the TTIP, it is more likely that a Britain, sorry England, outside the EU tent, with Cameron waxing lyrical about this devils sporn, will adopt it before the EU will.
I have no doubt that this referendum will need to be ‘managed’ just like the Scottish Independence vote, to get a pro EU result. Cameron will walk away, leaving apprentice Osborne in charge, shrugging his shoulders saying ‘at least I have tried’ and then the electoral fraud and the unfair voting will continue, perpetual serfdom guaranteed.
The timing of it in mid June guarantees that half of the UK votership will be using their last chance for a trouble free holiday in the EU, they won’t be here, so the postal vote of Tory voters will have it, until the other side starts campaigning fast, now, to pull par.
After living over halt of my life here I will have no vote as a EU citizen, but I shall try my best to inform some of the simpletons who barely can remember the slogans they are aligned to, because just as half of the media and 3/4 of the public they haven’t a clue what they get heat up about.
The majority of voters in Scotland voted against independence.
Fact.
The majority of voters in Scotland do not want independence.
Logic.
Scared into voting against their wishes?
Nationalist denial.
_____________
A pathetic response Fred, but in your eyes I suppose it’s a “wise” one.
Thanks Chris Rogers – a strong argument for Brexit from the United States of Europe; PFI, Simon Stevens and emerging TTIP will toll the death knell for Britain’s remaining NHS services free at the point of use.
Stevens is my most dangerous man in public office ready to consign our NHS structure to bygone times save a UK revolution…
A mollified British public will openly do sod all apart from polishing the pitch-fork!
“And then there is TTIP, which more or less seals the deal for me. No. No, No”
_________
Chris.
There is a similar type agreement already on the go since 1994. It’s called (NAFTA) the North American Free Trade Agreement.
NAFTA has made many American businessmen very rich.
http://americanactionforum.org/insights/is-nafta-a-bad-deal
TTIP, will also make many US businessmen wealthy, but at what cost to the average EU worker.
@RoS
Indeed, NAFTA eviscerated Canadian manufacturing as manufacturing jobs haemorrhaged to low-wage Mexico and Alabama. Canada has been reduced to a commodity-producing, resource-stripping banana republic. The even more dispicable TPP is likely to erode the final vestiges of the distinction between Canada and its neoliberal/neocon corporate-controlled neighbour to the South.
Disclosure that Mrs Thatcher’s cabinet ruled out an inquiry within a few hours of the Lockerbie bombing is further proof as to the duplicitous system that passes for open government in Britain.
Many were wary as to what the official line was, and is, re Lockerbie, and to those sceptical about how the authorities handled the post-bombing investigations. The Thatcher cabinet disclosure merely confirms their scepticism.
The files can be found here.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/about/news/newly-released-files-from-1986-88/
@Nevermind, first i take it you are German and will congratulate Germany for keeping the Basic law, its Federal Constitution, after reunification, despite the preamble of the original Basic Law, a copy of which i have, clearly states that it was only to remain in place until eventual reunification. It is a good document and has done Germany proud.
Secondly, and as with The Scots Indy vote, all living within the UK should have been given the necessary authority to vote in the EU Referendum, even if it mean’t us overseas Brits losing our right to vote – an acceptable and just trade off.
Thirdly, I’m highly favourable to the European Union that Jaques Delors pushed whilst at the helm of the Commission, although a Federal Europe is certainly not my ideal, a Confederated Europe could work if pushed, but the federalists and neoliberals seem determined not to give that idea any consideration – presently within the EU we have the worst of all worlds and much of this I blame squarely on the UK. Indeed under Tony Blair the EU reforms he pushed for were, and indeed still are, very much associated with neoliberalism, and had he had his way the UK would have been a member of the Euro, Mr. Brown and the Treasury managed to prevent that.
Since the Tories came to power in 2010 their attitude to the EU has been a disgrace, essentially only have an interest in the UK being the EU’s financial services centre, refusing to embrace a ‘social Europe’ and again pushing more neoliberalism down the EU’s throat, not as if it need more forced feeding given its own neoliberal clique that now holds sway – TTIP being the result of all this.
I am aware that with or without the EU that the Tories would sign-up to TTIP, however they may have great issues in trying to do so, for I believe TTIP is a greater threat to the UK’s sovereignty and its people, rather than the EU, but of course, its unlikely they’d sanction a plebiscite of the UK electorate to sanction such a Treaty. However, regardless of any signature, in the UK at least all Parliaments are sovereign of each preceding Parliament, as such, a Labour Government if elected, and having clearly stated its wholesale opposition to TTIP could revoke it – which funnily enough, is one reason why I’m still favourably disposed to an actual independent nuclear deterrent to actually ensure no nation, even the Yanks could threaten us without retribution – but I am a little anti-American I’m afraid to say in light of its actions since 1945, which have hardly been peaceable.
Had the UK under Cameron pushed for actual reform of the EU, or at least built a viable core of EU states in favour of radical reform, which means to me increased democracy, transparency and accountability we’d not be having this dialogue and we’d have been happy campers within a EU political construct that expresses concern with all its citizens – I’m no nationalist and very much like being European and feel sad and conflicted that given the EU’s operation since the onset of the Euro crisis that its actions, which in many respects are dictatorial ensure that I’m obliged to join the ‘No’ camp.
At the end of the day though we are not going to have a democratic dialogue and an informed dialogue on these important issues because our PM never favoured the UK leaving the EU to begin with, as such all we have seen is theatricals and a side show to the main issues confronting the EU, many of which have not been addressed or viable solutions presented, as such, if you really care about the EU, or at least a European idealism of justice, equality and fraternity, we should vote to leave in the hope that an existential threat to the EU will drive the necessary change.
I favour a democratic confederate EU where all nations have equal status, not the neoliberal monster we now find ourselves with.
I’ll go further, Churchill offered France full political union with the UK weeks before it fell to the NAZIS assault, unlike Churchill, and being the anti-warmonger I hope I am, I’d actually never oppose full political union between the three greatest warmongering nations in Western Europe, namely the UK, France and Germany, something no doubt our friends across the pond would be horrified at.
I’m also opposed to the date of this vote, believing a early October timeline preferable, given i think our nation needed a minimum six months of open and honest debate before we cast our vote. So another nail in the coffin of democracy, one of many the Tories have hammered home since their election win last July.
Since we’re on page 2, and I don’t give the time of day to the Presstitutes, there was a rather startling piece in the Boston Globe a few days back…
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/18/the-media-are-misleading-public-syria/8YB75otYirPzUCnlwaVtcK/story.html
Startling because it’s corporate media. Very rarely thesedays do you see chinks in the curtain like this.
RobG, since you’re here, I’d like to discuss this comment you posted at me:
“I’ve had enough of little twats like you and Habba, constantly urging us to go to war.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/02/hillary-clinton-is-the-guardian/comment-page-9/#comment-579207
Would you refresh my memory as to when, exactly, I ever (let alone “constantly”) urged us to go to war?
Otherwise, I’d appreciate it if you admitted that it’s a completely false charge by you against me.
_______________
“With the crucial difference being that Israel is not an apartheid state. Go there and find out.
In any state in which Muslims are a minority they will willingly separate themselves. This country being a case in point.”
————–‘
I have been there a lot. I am off mixed race, jewish and black. I can assure you looking brown skinned is sufficient to guarantee you very poor treatment in Israel. I grew sick of people pointing guns at me, and bored of people strip searching me at airports.
It’s not really so surprising. There is plenty of racism in eastern Europe. Which would you expect east eurupean Jews to be free of such racism?
RobG, I add my voice to Glenn’s on this; you repeatedly dismiss me as “vermin” and say either that I’ll “be held accountable” or “put against a wall and shot”. What am I supposed to have done?
Clark please don’t take RobG seriously – no one else does.
@Glenn_uk
20 Feb, 2016 – 7:22 pm
The obvious retort to that is you never seem to urge us ‘not’ to go to war.
But to deal more directly with your question, I’m not really a regular on this board, and don’t always have time to keep-up with the large number of comments here, particularly since many of these comments are lengthy (nothing wrong with that, I’m just saying that this poster doesn’t always have time to read it all).
This is the comment of yours I was referring to (there were further comments after this one, including from Clark):
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/02/hillary-clinton-is-the-guardian/comment-page-9/#comment-579200
Here’s a standard dictionary definition of anger: A strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure, or hostility.
I find myself very annoyed, pissed-off and ultimately hostile towards the world we now live in, where we are all sleepwalking towards our demise as a specis.
As I type this, Herricka, my half stray cat, is driving me mad because she wants to sit on my lap and be stroked.
Herricka is a lovely little cat, and she’s a dumb animal.
Us humans are supposedly not dumb animals.
@Clark
20 Feb, 2016 – 7:45 pm, said:
“RobG, I add my voice to Glenn’s on this; you repeatedly dismiss me as “vermin” and say either that I’ll “be held accountable” or “put against a wall and shot”. What am I supposed to have done?”
See my reply to Glenn above; but I’ll add to that, you said: “What am I supposed to have done?” The problem I have with that is by definition you are complicit in it, even though you are an intelligent person (like most on this board) and know quite well that it is all total madness. Repeat: you are all sleepwalking to your death, willingly! (don’t take that the wrong way, Clark, because I know you’ve had some problems recently. I’m talking about the population in a general sense, as I’m sure you know).
How on Earth can people still put up with wars, murder and mayhem in the 21st century?!
That’s why I sometimes get angry with people (or these days, most times).
@Fedup
20 Feb, 2016 – 8:22 pm
One of my favourite movies is Topsy-Turvy, released in 1999 and directed by Mike Leigh. I’m sure you are familiar with this movie, but for those who aren’t it’s about the making of Gilbert and Sullivan’s opera, ‘The Mikado’. It’s a brilliant portrayal of 19th century theatre and the Victorian age, and also British class values and money. It’s also a brilliant portrayal of Empire, and how back then no one batted an eyelid at the invasion of sovereign states and the butchering of huge numbers of ‘foreigners’.
Oh, if only we could have advanced beyond that 100 years later…
RobG: So you have absolutely nothing, zilch, to suggest I’ve advocated for war. But rather than man up and admit you made a mistake, you slither off with some measly “Well I haven’t seen you urge us not to”. But then, you go on to say you’re not exactly a regular here either, so how the bleedin’ hell would you know?
That’s such a toadying, wishy-washy load of half-baked excuse for an explanation, I’ll leave you to your rantings and silly threats – other than to say, I stood up for Clark who was also the subject of your uncalled for attacks. And that accounts for the only reference in your pathetic, shamefully inadequate reply of 20:34.
You – RobG – are a coward and a fool. Too stupid to see who you’re attacking, and too cowardly to apologise and admit you’re wrong. Apart from that and your baseless obsession about nuclear power, I guess you’re a quite reasonable guy.
Fedup: I suppose so. No hard feelings, eh? :/
Glenn, why waste your time and energy arguing with a drunkard?
Glenn of course not mate!!!
You are a white hat and good guy!!! I will buy you a pint if I ever see you mate. We need all the good men to man the pumps to wash away the bilge and bullshit that is being fed to the Jo public by the neocons and their toadies the zionists.
Glenn, the western internet is a hall of mirrors, mostly run by the CIA.
I apologise if you think I’ve attacked you wrongly.
Here’s a few links that readers might be interested in…
http://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/the-phony-global-isis-threat/
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/02/14/the-neoconservatives-are-brewing-a-wider-war-in-syria-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.mintpressnews.com/bbc-investigation-exposes-western-aid-to-syrian-rebels-as-wal-mart-for-extremists/213992/
I can’t now remember why I attacked Glenn, but it might be because he denies most of the above links.
Go figure…
Rob there is another movie that is a favourite of mine; wag the dog
here is a scene from it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh-Samvut-E
I would recommend watching it ought to be mandatory for everyone
@Alcyone
20 Feb, 2016 – 9:40 pm
You obviously passed-out, came to and then found yourself looking in a mirror.
Gawd, Langley is a mess thesedays. You’ll all go into the office on Monday nursing your hangovers, to decide the next lot of dusky skinned people you’re going to butcher, whilst running drugs and arms.
‘Found under a stone’ does not adequately describe the CIA, who are the biggest criminal and murderous organisation that has ever existed on Earth.
But don’t worry about it; snort more coke and order more drone attacks and worship God ($).
Fedup, thank you for the link (I presume Mr Bring is Robert De Niro?). I will check this film out; it looks fascinating. On a par with the Strangelove movie all those decades ago.