In general I deplore violence. But I do know that if a braying Etonian bully wandered round this country telling people how to dress, it would be very bad for their health. As someone who lived almost half of my life in England, I cannot understand the right wing intolerance, xenophobia and contempt for liberty that now characterises that nation.
And I cannot understand the degree of cringing servility that causes English people to want to be ruled – and told how to dress – by this.
FYI Craig and commenters: Apparently the post WWII plans to form the European Union originated and were to a large extent financed from powerful interests outside of Europe and for reasons rather a bit more complex and less high-minded than we might all have been led to believe:
Craig Murray despairs of England and wants to break up the UK because Dave Cameron is a twat. As if Blair wasn’t a twat, or Brown, or Clogg, or the Scotch Nat leadership. LOL.
One twat’s too many for Murray, apparently. Yeah, let’s flush the whole country and join multi-culti Merkel in flooding the place with Third Worlders, who will in due course displace the native population and their culture. Then we can say good riddance to Etonian fuckers like Cameroon. Only trouble is they’ll be replaced by people who want to cut off your daughter’s clitoris, or chop off peoples limbs or heads, or stone them to death for non-capital crimes.
“Wrong! Corbyn did not make any such point”
I agree, now having heard the exchange on the radio, that it was a Labour backbencher who shouted out “ask your mother” who was the perpetrator of the first Goss – and I am happy to apologise to Corbyn. Now perhaps you might apologise to me for saying I “supported the Bullingdon Club of right-wing neocons” when I did no such think – all purveyors of Gosses are doing something that is wrong, although some are clearly worse than others.
Why don’t you join some Marxist Leninist fringe party or some anti Semitic group where you clearly belong. You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that the Bolsheviks were socialists.
Thanks for your excellent link Silvio, so the idea of a world governing US are much older than Trumps views today.
The ‘harmonisations’ are going slowly, its said, they are not even half way trhough the TTIP agenda.
@ Glen UK, happy to help, it is a phrase used in Japan which I’m, rather fond off as it represents a moment of passion, or togetherness. For example, parents choosing to share their pillow with their newborn, not just their partner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pillow_Book_%28film%29
Silvio 25 Feb, 2016 – 3:35 am
“FYI Craig and commenters: Apparently the post WWII plans to form the European Union originated and were to a large extent financed from powerful interests outside of Europe and for reasons rather a bit more complex and less high-minded than we might all have been led to believe:”
Silvio you are 100% correct. The end game is world government controlled by the elite.
We of the counter-culture had eyes on this information in the 1970`s.
The question I ask why would the establishment have all the major publishing houses blacklist
C. Gordon Tether`s The Banned Articles: rare pamphlet by the Financial Times journalist One such article Common Market Fraud. In he end it was published by the free underground press. What are they so afraid of ? Is it the Truth ?
Mr Goss
“I remember yesterday that Habbabkuk got himself in a pickle through insulting Mr Rogers’ family”
__________________
That is a lie. Please link to the “insult” or desist. 🙂
Nevermind: Fancy that! Thanks for the info about pillow-sharing. I’d only want to do it if it was a thumping big one…
*
JSD: ““Cabal” can sound a little bit paranoid, I think.”
I think that’s the idea. In the late 17th century, if memory serves, the Whig ministry thought France was becoming the leading Catholic power (rather than Spain). There were rumours of a plot to restore Catholic rule to Britain. Mass hysteria ensued, many Jesuits were put to death. Anyone denying it was considered an accessory (“terrorist sympathisers”, if you will). A huckster called Titus Oates was at the bottom of it, claiming he had proof.
The champions of this Oates character formed a cabinet to get the whole thing going, which was known after the initials of its chief members: Clifford, Arlington, Buckingham, Ashley and Lauderdale : “CABAL”.
Habbabkuk, I can see how Chris Rogers might have felt slighted by your comments. I think he over reacted considerably, but I feel you could have apologised for any perceived insult.
John Goss, is it really worth trying to make things worse by sustaining and amplifying animosity?
War or peace. We ALL have the choice.
@John Goss,
Whilst the recidivist troll seems incapable of desisting from his behaviour, the fact remains there is a massive dichotomy between ‘below the belt insinuation’ and calling matters out for what they are.
Like him or loath him, Margret Thatcher’s press officer Bernard Ingram at least had the decency to call it how he saw it, namely he called a ‘spade a spade’ and did not beat about the bush or go for low kicks to sensitive places in order to gain point scoring, which is infantile behaviour at its worse.
Like you, I’m want to call matters out as I interpret it without any callous intent, just a shame others lack the courage or courtesy to do likewise, which is half the reason our nation is in such a pickle because people actually are scared to speak out and call a spade a spade for fear of others twisting their words to beat them around the head with the proverbial baseball bat.
So, please continue calling matters out, forget all the PC crap, which itself is an onerous form of self censorship.
Still, just says how crass and incompetent our alleged peoples representatives are, and our Elitist PM, when a persons dress sense, or lack thereof, is of more import than actual pressing issues of the day – like people being forced into homelessness, forced to resort to food banks or forced into criminal activity in order to stay alive – but victim blaming is all the rage these days.
Obviously, some here posting still believe that MP’s should wear morning dress of top hat and tails, or somehow the wearing of a suit implies some superiority, which seems funny since such attire is frowned upon by many businesses operating out of Silicon Valley, and they seem to get along fine.
The same feeling is prevalent in Germany, Craig, nobody trusts the media and they are sharpening the pitchforks, just as the French.
“It is a phenomenon that defies simple description. According to polls, 40 percent of Germans believe the media are not credible. And the loudest of them all, people like Tatjana Festerling, an organizer with the anti-immigrant, Islamophobic PEGIDA movement, have even taken to calling on the public to get out the pitchforks to chase journalists out of newspaper offices.
The criticism is mainly directed at reporting on the refugee crisis. According to a recent survey by the Allensbach Institute, a respected German polling firm, only a quarter of Germans believe that the media paint a correct picture of the level of education and share of women and children among incoming refugees.
Beck is no radical. She opposes the right-wing populist Alternative for Germany (AfD) party. She taught German to adolescent immigrants in the 1990s. Nevertheless, the days after the incidents in Cologne on New Year’s Eve destroyed something for her. She feels that the media have ignored her fears. She also feels a bit helpless, because her doubts feel so vague and uncertain to her. Still, Beck isn’t cancelling her subscriptions. “Why?” she asks, sounding horrified. “I couldn’t live without Süddeutsche.”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/most-germans-think-the-press-is-lying-to-them-about-refugees-a-1079049.html
Corbyn initially used Cameron’s mum to make his point – Cameron than used his mum to direct an insult at Corbyn. Both are Gosses.
No, sorry. Angela Eagle heckled Cameron to the effect of ‘what would your mother say?’ first. Then Cameron *went 50’s middle-class on Corbyn’s ass* (30 second bray from Tory benches) before Corbyn rather diffidently pointed out that his own, late, mother would have supported the NHS – which is what the original question had been about.
If the incident has any lessons for us, they are that PMQ’s is a fatuous waste of parliamentary time, and that Cameron has yet to talk to a man in the street.
@Dave Lawton
I would like to suggest to Craig if he wants a better understanding of the real difficulty that would be involved in throwing of the reins of the USA and corporatocracy control in an independent Scotland (whether it be inside or out of the EU) he pick up the latest release by now repentant economic hit man John Perkins, The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man
Alterntately, anyone too hard up to spend the cash could at least read a short summary of the book and get a grasp of it’s implications in this review by PC Roberts:
Excerpt:
Sorry, wrong link provided to see the review of John Perkins’ book. Here it is:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/02/22/the-evil-empire-has-the-world-in-a-death-grip-paul-craig-roberts/
Silvio and Dave Lawton – thank you for your links. This is my entirely subjective take.
It fits with the perception of a change in the “feel” of things since 1979. I suppose I am talking of social attitudes. After the war there was a sense of communality and this was reflected in everything that flowed from Beveridge. And then came Thatcher and the degradation of our common life began – I include Blair et al – forget labels. Put at its simplest it went from us, we and our to I, me and mine.
The changes were facilitated by various media and cultural forces and were slow and imperceptible. For me whose experience spans the whole of this time and who is able to reflect on it, it seems as if there was indeed an alien way of looking at things grafted on to our communities around that time. This alien outlook continues to be thrust down our throats by a little group of London based folk who really do not understand the ordinary decent people among whom I grew up and who now, I would guess, form the basis of the dissent now being expressed in all kinds of ways in places far from London. People are waking up and need to.
What chances of a Ken Loach type of Cathy Come Home programme being commissioned and shown on prime time TV now? Or Oh What a Lovely War or even Black Adder Goes Forth ?
PS… Cameron’s mother comes out of this with some credit: this is probably what inspired Eagle’s heckle.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-mother-signs-petition-rallying-against-government-cuts-to-childrens-services-a6862331.html
Craig – Ewen Fergusson one of the Bullingdon 87 mob and allegedly threw a plant pot through a restaurant window that got six of them getting banged up overnight in a cell. His dad played rugby for Scotland and was also UK Ambassador to South Africa and France.
Last time I checked (I check all the time honest) Cameron was also a Scottish name.
PS- You might be able to tell from my name that I’m not English either.
Rose, 11:58 am; strong agreement from me. Thanks.
Clark
“Chris Roberts”‘s indignation and ‘over-reaction’ were entirely spurious.
Completely faked and designed to build up a head of steam, an impression of chaos, to get the Moderator to intervene with a view to silencing me.
It’s a tactic that’s been tried before.
And it worked this time, because I got a word out of the blue from the Moderator telling me not to try it on (whatever that’s supposed to mean) and that I’d be banned for a much longer period this time. My ‘offence’ was unspecified, of course 🙂
Stop whining, Habbabkuk – it doesn’t suit you 😉
Why I despair of my once-loved Craig Murray: “I cannot understand the right wing intolerance, xenophobia and contempt for liberty that now characterises that nation.
And I cannot understand the degree of cringing servility that causes English people to want to be ruled – and told how to dress – by this.”
We’re sleep-walking to totalitarianism, that’s for sure – in numerous ways which should be checked. But the above is just some kind of morbid fantasy. Christ on a bike!
Well said Rose, its as if the demise of the Warsaw pact, the crumbling Berlin wall, was the starting gun for the neocon game, to re-aim, and go the long way round.
They had instant success with softy Gorby, a pished Yeltsin and then were surprised to see Putin put an end to the cannibalisation by oligarchs robbing Russia blind, then selling Russian interests to mega rich foreign companies.
One of the most devastating hold ups since the ME was thrown into turmoil, was the Desertec program which would have provided energy from the sun, concentrated solar power, lesser and lesser reliance on dirty oil.
The Egyptian spring, which is ongoing, Al Sisi will not bring reform to Egypt,. he’s in bed with Bibi, Syria is split up with years of war left to fight, all this has stopped this massive exchange of knowledge to the Magreb, mutually exploited sun energy is really what we need for the 4th. Industrial revolution, but it will not happen as long as these idiots slug it out for oil and gas.
I feel as if the arms industry works hand in hand with oil, they complement each other and chaos sells arms and opens up new resources, which is the last thing we should be doing now after Paris, drill new wells.
We have the peaceful means to do better, but the prevailing power structures are not conducive to letting humanity thrive unless it is to their benefit and for their sole control.
A 300bn Euro program linking North Africa with our energy needs in Europe, a massive technology exchange, education of the Magreb’s workforces in all things solar and gas, and development of new trade links and sustainable energy policies everywhere.
Will the 72 victims of Saville whilst under the wings of the BBC be getting any compensation?
Multi millionaire Clarkson got help from them for the six figure undisclosed sum he’s paying for thumping a man in his team.
All of Saville victims can proof that they have been abused on BBC premises, they were present in broadcasts or TV transmissions on the various days and the BBC itself holds the evidence, which should really be made safe by the CPS.
Some victims speaking out today say that many more people knew and were part of the cover up.
Chris Rogers wrote:
“@CM,
I actually share your sentiment and despise what the UK has become, if only because most of constitutes the UK is resident within England, or more specifically within the confines of the M25 and Home Counties.
For some unknown reason, most of my fellow countrymen in Wales seem opposed to breaking free of shackles imposed by a overwhelmingly English and Tory Westminster. There is something much to be said for ‘Home Rule’, if not an outright break with the Union and full independence – its a bit of a dependency issue in Wales, but calls for Home Rule may increase after Osborne’s austerity max measures take their toll on our already under resourced public services.
Indeed, most of Wales’s most educated youth shun Oxbridge, which shows some reluctance to embrace English mores and values, many of which are alien to us.
However, I’m not sure independence and a move to full independent membership of the EU would benefit us given its present addiction to neoliberal economic prescriptions, the same prescriptions that Westminster has administered with huge societal consequences.
Indeed, the construction of a wall to keep the English out and globalisation at bay seems tempting, particularly given our small number we could actually established a true sustainable society where wealth is spread equally and all burdens are shared.
One thing is for sure, if nearly a thousand years of Norman/English rule and multiple abuses have taught us anything, it is that Westminster is not our friend, quite the reverse, we are prisoners in our own land stuck in a cycle of welfare dependency with all its associated social evils. Why so many voted UKIP at the last GE really concerns me given the fact as a country we don’t suffer from increased immigration, the reverse is true, many are leaving and not returning, leaving us in an even worse predicament. Hence ones natural desire to return to my own community and engage in its struggles – tis not nice living in exile, particularly one imposed by Tory racists.”
…….
Chris there was a long and positive tradition of Welsh youth being educated at Oxbridge and it is sad to hear you speak of a decline. I wonder whether that may in part be attributable to a general UK tendency on the part of some heads not to encourage such applications. There used to be many heads (some of whom were old labour) who would always see that some got through. Going to Oxford didn’t turn working and middle class Welsh youth into sold out clones. I am thinking now of Howard Marks (and smiling), but there are many others.
After WWII there was (at last) great social mobility in Wales assisted by the Education Act and the Trade Union movement.
There was a fine documentary by Andrew Neil lamenting the decline in working class MPs, which noted that the route up for a quick witted working class youth through the unions into parliament has vanished. These days its just PPE graduates (yes PPE = Oxford; I don’t know but I tend to doubt that many Welsh Oxford students studied PPE as its essentially modern Greats).
To be Welsh is to be blessed – but nationalism is for losers or puppets. It is of no use save in wartime to remember where you stand, but not at other times.
Many Welsh have found it remarkably easy to prosper in England and have often fared better than their working or lower middle class English counterparts because to be Welsh is to be allowed a poetic flare to stand outside the petty restraints and inferiorities of the English class system. Yes, it is true there has been oppression in terms of military recruitment, language, the blue books and so on, but the language and a sense of identity is alive. Language and identity is not the same as nationalism. It is true that there has to be a struggle, but at the end of the day there has to be a balance.
Yup, UKIP in Wales was shameful, but I suspect that came out of some sense of working class non Welsh speakers feeling a alienation from what has become a class of middle class Welsh crachach.
Its best to remember that we are an island and not to feel confined to any western hinterland: its all Wales, yes it really is…from Dunbartonshire & Cumbria down to Cornwall and east to the Thames and to Dover.
hwyl am nawr,
fwl
The Scots will never accept you as one of them. Not in a million years.
@Fwl,
With regards students applying to Oxbridge from wales the numbers have collapsed to a handful, from State schools at least – whilst in my day I know a few who went to Oxbridge, groomed by their parents I’ll add, the majority of those i know who had good ‘A’ Levels but zero interest in studying at Oxbridge was high, and that’s back in 1988, many actually went to London, or stayed local, namely attending what were then University of Wales campuses.
With regards the here and know, the local media in wales has been running with the story and its reported at least that many potential students are put off by ‘elitism’. Obviously, then of course we have the wrecking ball what was New Labour’s embrace of a more American system of funding, turning what was a really good HE environment dedicated to research and actual teaching, to one where it was but a business and a question of bums on seats – obviously once we breached the 25% thresh hold of students going on to HE the costs increased exponentially, but also sadly their was money to be made.
Those in University I know who live in the Torfaen area, many now attend HE locally if they can and remain with the folks, this applies equally to working class families and lower middle class – essentially since the introduction of course fees and essentially phasing out of students grants in favour of loans many are trying to avoid debt – but given wales was already one of the most deprived regions in the UK, the impact has been much larger than in England.
Indeed, one Scot I know here in HK who’s a central banker and lawyer was even debating the issue of not sending his offspring to Uni in the UK as it seemed a waste of time as far as job prospects were concerned.
But its fair to say that presently quite a few who could easily have made it to Oxbridge just could not be bothered to apply and took cheaper options, but elite perceptions played a part in their decisions and teachers are not as pushy as they once were.
I’m still of the opinion it would be better all round for Wales to build up one of its Uni’s to be a global force, but that takes huge sums of money and a fair amount of time, and we are a little cash strapped at the moment shall I say!
Republic of Scotia. Agreed ++. I have been using the term ‘psychopath’ these past 13 years. The US psychologist Hare was my main mentor.
You say ‘It also allows them to vote for illegal wars in far off countries, lacking a conscience or any morality, they rise through the ranks at Westminster, Blair Brown, Cameron, Thatcher, need I say anymore?’
Say this on the high and the low roads Scottie -‘ A very large majority of the UK’s polity does not know that the psychopath is and that he ** has all the qualities which gain their election in our ‘democracy’. This fatal flaw applies to most nations. Everlasting war is ensured.’
http://www.globalresearch.ca/psychopaths-911-and-everlasting-war/5449047 last effort
** Ten times more men than women are psychopaths. The y chromosome has ‘terminator’ attachments – of others
Rose. Second that. Born in 1940. Educated in what I call the stripped clean years. No ruddy TV. Fellow feeling strong. Idealism encouraged. Teachers often inspiring.
What grew and grew – lack of probity – corruption and greed infectious > destructive. Media – the NOISE.
Process rather than careful thought – I saw this growing in the hospitals. That trite saying – ‘they know the price of everything but the value of nothing’ does apply. So shallowness is wide.
We are not sleepwalking into totalitarianism – we are here, and our vile leaders export it everywhere – like G4S incarcerating children in ‘Israel’ and in the beheading autocracy.
My definition of fascism fits the present
FASCISM my definition – the subjugation of the individual’s will and freedom by an overweening state.
Humanity withers, freedom of speech is stifled and the soul dies. Self preservation becomes a dominant drive.
as do the much quoted words of Milton Mayer. Forgive the length but I find his words are at the heart of our sickness and each word is true. This is Britain in February 2016
‘They Thought They Were Free’
by Milton Mayer, The Germans, 1938-45
(Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1955)
“What no one seemed to notice was the ever widening gap between the government and the people. And it became always wider…..the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting, it provided an excuse not to think….for people who did not want to think anyway gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about…..and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated…..by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us…..
“Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’…..must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing…..Each act is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next.
“You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone…..you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes.
“That’s the difficulty. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves, when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
“You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things your father…..could never have imagined.”
Good of you to look in again, David, the values have definitely deteriorated since the early nineties, imho, the control of Governments has slipped and foreign policy has become a multi interests policy.
what’s left is World Government via fascists means.
many have learned these tactics since this was written about the Germans, I was three years old when this came out.
But I’m also relieved that the next fascist control freaks are not of Teutonic make, there are more closer to home, would you not agree?
Ach ! Another Empire colony bites the dust and eases up on the braking toward the future
http://anonhq.com/official-australia-legalizes-medicinal-marijuana/