Nick Cohen is paid a great deal of money for publishing hate speech, and he has just published his most hate-ridden piece yet. It is hate-ridden because it is about the question of Israel, without including one single word of concern for the plight of the Palestinians or one single mention of Israeli occupations, land grabs, shootings and bombings. Cohen shows massive concern for British Jews whose collective feelings he claims were terribly hurt by the election of Jeremy Corbyn. [No, honestly, he really does say that, read his article.] He shows no concern whatsoever for the Palestinian children who get shot or beaten by occupying Israeli forces every single week.
Cohen is hate-filled also in what he says about Stephen Sizer, the Anglican cleric who campaigns for the rights of Palestinians.
Cohen describes Stephen as “an Anglican cleric who linked to extremist sites that blamed Jews for 9/11, and his defence of an Islamist who recycled the libel that Jews dined on the blood of Christian children from the bottom of a medieval dung heap.”
But as Cohen in fact knows extremely well, the Islamic cleric in question, Raed Saleh, consistently denied saying anything of the kind, and a British court determined that he should not be banned from the UK. This was rather a campaign against Saleh by one of Cohen’s fellow pro-Israeli propagandists.
For Cohen to continue the campaign against Saleh is hate speech. It is deliberate Islamophobia. It is astonishing that he is allowed to do this in corporate media.
The other point he makes against Stephen Sizer is also a deliberate misrepresentation. Cohen says Sizer “linked to extremist sites that blamed Jews for 9/11”. Cohen knows that the article to which Sizer linked was perfectly respectable. Elsewhere on that website there was indeed objectionable material which Sizer had not seen. It is a mistake which every blogger has made, including me, and Stephen has apologised for it.
I know Stephen Sizer and travelled to Baghdad with him a couple of years ago. Stephen does not have a racist bone in his body and for Cohen to claim otherwise is absolutely disgusting hate speech.
Note that Cohen does not name Sizer and Saleh. He calls them an “Anglican cleric” and an “islamist”. This is because Cohen is not only a liar, he is a coward. If he named them he could be sued for libel.
Personally I do not believe Israel should exist. I do not want a two state solution. I see Israel pursuing the same policies as apartheid South Africa, only with more violence, and I view the “two state solution” as a repeat of the Bantustan policy. I wish to see a single state in Palestine where all who currently live there are welcome and all are equal, whatever their religion or race, in a single democratic and secular state.
Nick Cohen will tell you that is anti-Semitism. But then Nick Cohen hates me. He hates anybody who speaks the truth about Israel.
This post was updated more accurately to reflect the tribunal ruling
“It is indeed storage [strange?] that under the UK protectorate of Palestine after WWI, and indeed during the Ottoman Empire’s administration of the Holy Lands the local inhabitants, be they Jewish or non-Jewish got on quite fine”
…except they didn’t. For example, there were severe Hebron and Safed massacres of jews in 1517, soon after the Ottomans took over and again in the 1830s and periodoc massacres throughout Ottoman rule, when the jewish population consisted of some 25,000 people. They continued under British rule
Everybody else got massacred too, from time to time, under the Ottomans. The Jews were not in an unusual position. No reason to claim exceptional treatment. By contrast the Istanbul Jews were very powerful under the Ottomans.
They were the catalyst in the massacre of Armenians.
Maybe there is some validation to discussing what our position as people/politicians (I hope the latter all burn btw, on my worse days 🙂 ) should be on the Palestine occupation, but can’t help thinking it’s basically our system that persecuted/slaughtered the Jews, native Americans and on, oil being the new gold. Nation states, the market money war plunder system is basically the same as then. Exact same tendencies.
All I see is factions within that system accusing each-other of mass murder. I assume in order to gain some legitimacy within it. Maybe why whenever pressed for details one gets the feeling there is a simple acceptance, or falling back on the position of just cog in machine that nobody really understands.
I’m sorry that’s just not good enough. Or tells me all I need to know about it’s legitimacy. And no doubt why the outcomes are largely the same, when were told “the realities” of the grown up world. Ie Like it’s the weather. ‘sigh’
Ps, what I said before about not recognising generalised identity like jew, British etc.
I do accept/respect others self identify in all kinds of ways. They are welcome, but I can only truthfully engage the world as I feel it. ‘Black’, ‘white’ ect A hindrance really these collective notions for practical things, individual experience, identification, Getting to know people. It’s so abstract…
And my opinions represent nothing but what they are. My opinions. Each to there own.
You don’t speak the truth about Israel, you are a liar, you are really an anti-Semite! I makes me sick!
This is fascinating. Let’s count the people who comment offering no argument or rebuttal but just insult and misrepresentation.
Eva can be number thirteen.
Like what you’re doing listing people on your clipboard, comrade.
Excuse me Eva, but you are boring.
I am Jewish, but not Zionist. Ewa, you don’t speak for me.
It is interesting to watch 21st century Zionists and their apologists like Nick Cohen and Co. twist themselves in knots in their defense of an aggressive expansionist state based on a very outdated notion of racial destiny or “chosen-ness”, to borrow a phrase from the acerbic ex-Israeli jazz musician Gilad Atzmon
A year ago I read Max Blumenthal’s “Goliath: Life and Loathing in Greater Israel”. Blumenthal was a witness to the degeneration of this deformed state. The real prophets, as it turned out, were not those of the old Testament but more recent figures such as Yeshayahu Liebowitz, a neurophysiology professor who headed Hebrew University’s biological Chemistry Department and held eight doctorates, teaching inter alia philosophy and quantum mechanics but who was never allowed to teach political science.
In an essay published in 1968, Leibowitz wrote that Israeli society lacked the means or desire to constrain the states expansionist impulses; without limits imposed by outside powers, he predicted, ”our situation will deteriorate to that of a second Vietnam, to a war in constant escalation without prospect of ultimate resolution.”
He continued with a harrowing forecast of the storm looming on Israel’s horizon:
“The Arabs would be the working people and the Jews the administrators, inspectors, officials, and police – mainly secret police. A state ruling a hostile population of 1.5 to 2 million foreigners would necessarily become a secret-police state, with all that this implies for education, free speech and democratic institutions. The corruption characteristic of every colonial regime would also prevail in the State of Israel. The administration would have to suppress Arab insurgency on the one hand and acquire Arab Quislings on the other. There is also good reason to fear that the Israel Defense Force. Which has been until now a people’s army, would, as a result of being transformed into an army of occupation, degenerate, and its commanders, who will have become military governors, resemble their colleagues in other nations.”
In a separate essay published two years after Israel’s conquest of the Occupied Territories, Leibowitz predicted that the occupation would descend into a malignant phase in which “concentration camps would be erected by the Israeli rulers” and “Israel would not deserve to exist, and it will not be worthwhile to preserve it.”
A fine post and I had no idea my views have been endorsed by such an impressive academic.
I have visited Israel many times in the past but I do not intend to go again. I believe Israel should exist. My father is buried there as is my grandfather. But Likud will destroy Israel in much the same way that Josephus described zionists destroying it 2000 years ago. Bibi heads a party of racists and imperialists. I fear this will not end well for all involved.
I’ve read through the comments on the Cohen article. As usual, many have been deleted. Difficult to know whether they were really anti-semitic.
Whence even the racist edl carry the zionistan flag as a routine, do you really expect to find any antisem…… sentiments?
The comments sections are reflective of the oligarch owned media policy analysts and their favourite view point that is getting peddled must go unchallenged,. hence the deletions.
Just read the pitiful infantile rebuttals of the zionists on this thread, that centres solely around harangues of antisemi….. isn’t it proof that antisemi…… only exists in their minds?
The Moroccan Jews who were enticed/forced to emigrate to zionistan based on false flag attacks and intense fear warmongering among the said Jewish populations, are no flocking back to Morocco and picking up where they left from. Does that not tell you anything?
As I’ve said before, there may have been a particularly pro-Israel moderator who was employed on the Israel threads, though I’m not certain that he/she is still there. Otherwise the Guardian is being constantly bombarded by complaints from CiFWatch, today known as UKMediaWatch. Every single supposedly anti-Israel comment is complained about. It must be hard for the Guardian to resist, whatever their policy.
By the way, I’m not surprised to hear Moroccan Jews prefer Morocco. They were badly treated in Israel.
It is difficult to see anti-semitism as a real problem in Britain today. There are no burnings of synagogues, or even many Nazi style graffiti. Just some potentially anti-semitic remarks, largely on the internet. Quite opposite to the experiences of Muslims who have to experience arson attempts every day on mosques. We have to be fair. Everyone should have the same treatment. No special privileges for one group.
largely agree. I feel alterer motives discussing It’s significance much.
Can’t help feeling it’s an extension bowing procedure criticism.
It’s great to see the defenders of zionism and the whole zionist industry collapsing and shredding itself to bits in front of our eyes. The whole industry built and propped up by the labelling of anyone who wants to rationally discuss the illegally formed zionist Rotchild state of Israel as ‘anti semitic’ is defunct and exposed as the ugly racist sham it truly is. Just one look at the incredibly desperate reactions to this one article demonstrates how the jig is up for this tired, worn agenda. Time for all the everyday genuine citizens of Israel/Palestine to speak out and reclaim their lives and set their own democratic narrative.
While we’re at it, let’s start having official holocaust memorials for the Ukraine famine, all the Europeans and others killed in WW1 and WW2, Cambodia, Vietnam, the Chinese, the Russians, India, native Indians, the Iraqis, the Afhgans and all others who have died in recent centuries especially, by genocidal wars started by a twisted revolutionaries and funded and aided by their banking associates
“I could describe at vitriolic length how disgusted leftwing Jewish friends are that Labour members chose Jeremy Corbyn, despite his support for an Anglican cleric who linked to extremist sites that blamed Jews for 9/11” – Nick Cohen
I have been looking into this matter regarding the Reverend Stephen Sizer. I will post a link to a letter written in 2012 to his Bishop, the Right Reverend Christopher Hill, from Rabbi Professor Dan Cohn-Sherbok, Emeritus Professor of Judaism at the University of Wales, who knows Stephen Sizer well and is a noted author and expert witness on anti-Semitism who has contributed to the criminal conviction of British anti-Semites. In summary, Rabbi Cohn-Sherbok thoroughly repudiates any suggestion that Stephen Sizer is anti-Semitic in any way. He’s one of a host of well-known people who have ridiculed any such suggestion about Reverend Sizer, including Tony Greenstein, who has been gracious enough to support Craig Murray on here as well.
If Nick Cohen has not made it his business to discover this about Reverend Sizer, he has no right to call himself a journalist, and write such reckless allegations in a national newspaper. If he does in fact know this, and is concealing the matter from his readers, his conduct is not just reckless, but malicious and disgraceful. In either case, it is perfectly accurate for Craig Murray to characterise his article as “hate speech”. Cohen is taking for mugs, all the people who have written on here to abuse Craig for his critique of the article, and I hope that they will read this and look into the matter more carefully, and ask Cohen for an explanation of his behaviour.
In fact, I see that I cannot post the link I wanted, but if you take the trouble to go to http://www.stephensizer.org, click on “Archive: 2012”, and then scroll down to “Sunday, 30 December 2012”, you will find a link to Rabbi Cohn-Sherbok’s letter among others. Here’s an apt comment from Tony Greenstein’s letter of support: “To accuse people of anti-Semitism when they evince not a whiff of racism is to let the real anti-Semites off the hook.” Amen to that, and that appears to me to be precisely what Cohen is doing, which I find totally despicable.
Cohen isn’t a journalist, he’s a propagandist.
Who’s the hate monger? Are you serious when you write “Personally I do not believe Israel should exist”? Your ignorance is frankly astounding. Have you studied any Middle-Eastern history? Have you been to Israel? Have you seen how Israeli Arabs and Jews live side by side in the only democratic state in the Middle-East? Have you asked a Palestinian living in Israel whether he or she would prefer to live in a new Palestine or in Israel? Have you asked a South African who lived with apartheid if he or she sees a comparison in Israel? I don’t think there is anything more pathetic than a person who is ignorant, arrogant and out spoken.
“Have you seen how Israeli Arabs and Jews live side by side in the only democratic state in the Middle-East?” Have you forgotten Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Turkey and Iran, who all have equally “democratic” elections? The Israeli Arabs I know are leaving because of the awful way they get treated. israeli Arabs are not allowed to be a part of the government. I’d hoped that the hasbara people had finished their shift, but apparently not.
This is fascinating. Let’s count the people who comment offering no argument or rebuttal but just insult and misrepresentation.
Marianne McCormack can be number fourteen.
And that’s the fourteenth time you’ve posted this troll-like, paranoid comment implying sinister motives of new commentators.
I have been to both Israel and South Africa. I can tell from your views you are white. I’m not and I didn’t like having guns pointed at me cos I have brown skin. This did not harlem to me in South Africa.
My time at Yeshiva was uncomfortable, even though I was a good student.
Does that answer you question?
Many people did believe in a two state solution.
Then we realised it was just a cosmetic effort to cover the land grabs.
We support those people of Israel who are against the apartheid policies and slow genocide carried out by the current regime.
Obviously, you don’t.
.
The only person who is ‘….ignorant, arrogant and out spoken.’ is clearly you.
.
The posted comments please me for the reason that they demonstrate to Nick Cohen the kind of vicious, bigoted people he has been a part of for most of his life.
He, until recently, constantly reinforced the Left’s hatred of the only Jewish state in the world. He still does not understand that it doesn’t matter what concessions the Israelis make, the hatred will never abate because the Israelis remain Jews.
Jew hatred is at the core of all anti-Israel agitation.
This is fascinating. Let’s count the people who comment offering no argument or rebuttal but just insult and misrepresentation.
rosie6600 can be number fifteen.
John when there is only a hammer in the tool box all the problems in the world become mails!!!
Taking note of the fifteen rebuttals all of them are based on the antisemi…. along with the usual unconscious drivel and insults. Fact that the miscreant going by the moniker of jemand has been following you around and insulting and swearing at you is the measure of the intellect of these cretinous supporters of the racist supremacist zionists.
Good on you for keeping the count, it is a very good quantification.
Thank you, Fedup. Jemand has a grievance against me for other reasons. It would not be fair to him or her to attribute his or her comments to support for Zionism.
Finally, you tell the truth about one thing – I’m not supporting zionism. But Fedup’s comment above is curious for it’s self-righteous tone about insults & swearing. You just can’t get a more blatant example of bi-polar disorder.
Fatuous. Why should a religion have the right to steal a land from others? Jews got on fine with others, up to the point where they decided they were an ethnic people, which they are not.
Rubbish.
Are we free from the hasbara bombardment? There haven’t been any for a while. Perhaps I am being optimistic. Perhaps they have diverted their troops elswehere.
Evidently I was being optimistic. The bombard is continuing.
And do you show any concern for the Israeli children killed by “Palestinian” murderers in pizza parlours, bus queues, discotheques, school buses etc. etc.? Nah, dead Jews don’t count.
And the many more numerous Palestinian children slaughtered out of hand by Israel? No, dead Palestinians don’t count.
Out of hand? what utter BS. hear what Colonel Richard Kemp has to say about Israel’s incomparable attempts to avoid civilian casualties. Or the US Joint Chiefs of Staff. Listen to actual military experts discuss military matters that you are obviously completely ingrate about.
As for comparing death counts, you need to take context into account as well. Israel builds bomb shelters for its citizens, uses Iron Dome and other defensive inventions to protect its population against rockets fired deliberately into civilian areas. Hamas uses its children as human shields, hiding rocket launchers in schools (even UNRWA had to admit to this). Abbas uses his children as guided weapons, inciting them to go out and kill Jews in the street, welcoming the fact that many of them get killed themselves in the process.
Yet more morally blind bigots.
Blow it out of your elbow quoting a rent a quote Christian fundamentalist tosser becoming the basis of your oh so “humanitarian” zionistan is a concept too far from reality.
You forgot to mention that did the good colonel speak to Ben Gurion or was it another ghost of hgana or irgun terrorist past before coming to that conclusions you have mentioned, as he is on record to have spoken to the ghost of Orde Wingate in the Arlington cometary.
,em>”Out of hand? what utter BS. hear what Colonel Richard Kemp has to say about Israel’s incomparable attempts to avoid civilian casualties. Or the US Joint Chiefs of Staff……..As for comparing death counts, you need to take context into account as well.”
.
That sort of crap betrays your background.
No-one here talks about ‘comparing death counts’. That is so Westmoreland in the ’70s.
Stop killing babies and adults. Stop the genocide. That is absolute.
From my perspective it looks like the Israel state values ‘it’s’ children (if we can be so vulgar to think of states with feelings) far over the lives of Palestinian children.
Excessive force is an understatement, the constant subjugation on one form or another. Backed by those who never really speak out on this massive issue.
Israel does not just blog about it. It occupies real places. It’s violence and domination on a massive scale, to a materially largely helpless population.
This is fascinating. Let’s count the people who comment offering no argument or rebuttal but just insult and misrepresentation.
Stanley Tee can be number sixteen.
Kudos to John Spencer-Davis for calling them out.
Agreed.
Counting dissenting views for isolation and collective punishment. Welcome back to the early 20thC.
9/11 has its own thread, Mr Harner. See “Still discussing” at the top on the right hand side. I have no idea what you are talking about, but quite frankly I suspect that you are trying to discredit this thread by posting this kind of material on it. Please could you post it on the proper thread where the moderators can evaluate it. Thank you.
“Jeremy Corbyn must make clear anti-Semitism has no place in Labour or I’ll leave, warns Lord Levy”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-must-make-clear-anti-semitism-has-no-place-in-labour-or-i-ll-leave-warns-lord-levy-a6942826.html
Perhaps the only good reason for Corbyn to remain silent………
“Perhaps the only good reason for Corbyn to remain silent………”
Or perhaps it’s a slander. Corbyn is not anti-semitic.
My comment was in jest. Still, it would be Labour’s gain if Blair-worshipping shysters like Lord Cashpoint walked out the door.
“Jeremy Corbyn must make clear anti-Semitism has no place in Labour or I’ll leave, warns Lord Levy”
What about all the other kinds of bigotry, many used for slaughter ?
Yes I saw that too. Corbyn’s ‘crime’ is failing to be stridently critical of some alleged anti-Jewish comments.
Clearly Cohen’s and Friedland’s articles were simply a bit of pitch rolling (at the Guardian’s expense) for a bit of a political sideshow, pleasantly eclipsed by the IDS of March.
Rod Liddle’s at it in the Sunday Times today as well, indignantly trying to convince his readers that anti semitism and Jew bashing is now increasingly getting out of control in Britain and Europe and that this is vile, disgraceful and reprehensible.
How strange – he and his editors seem to think it’s perfectly ok to publish anti Welsh and Scottish bigotry and racism. This is the person that attacked all the Welsh as ‘miserable, seaweed munching, sheep-bothering pinch-faced hill tribes’ and the Scots as ‘alcoholics and druggies’
A consistent argument based on principles and and ethics does not seem to be one of his strengths. Just imagine the uproar if he had said that against Jewish people or Nigerians. Makes you think that people such as Liddle, Cohen and their corporate media paymasters are desperately trying to set and control the narrative. They’re failing, it’s collapsing around them
There’s a big offensive against anti-semitism. Even the slightest traces must be eradicated, while never mind the insults against Islam. They’re of no importance.
Oh man, just realized what an utter waste of time this site clearly is. If this is what passes for reasoned debate, I’m out of here.
Don’t let the door hit you on your butty
Whether or not the Jews, more precisely the Zionist Jews/Israelis, had something to do with 9/11, they have backed all the wars in the Middle East, starting with Muslim Afghanistan. The same have never ceased torturing and killing children in Palestine. In the early Christian Era, Jews massacred thousands of Christians in the region.
Yes yes for one state in Palestine. Yes the Zionist invaders can stay, so long as they give back the stolen lands (eg vacate the settlements) and allow the repatriation of the Palestinian Refugees (1948 and 1967). Of course, I am an “anti-Semite” too, as I have always maintained that Israel is an illegitimate terrorist state.
I think you have made your position clear. You are no neutral arbiter but a dyed in the wool anti Israeli and so we can;t take anything you say as anything other than propaganda
That makes it seventeen in JSD’s count.
I am knocking off now. The count of new people logging on to this forum for the express purpose of insulting Craig Murray and jeering at his article, with hardly any pretence at intelligent comment or critique whatsoever, is currently at sixteen. That is absolutely amazing. I have never seen anything like this before, here or anywhere else.
If anyone would like to continue the count, please be my guest.
Well done and good night JSD. I am sure the barrage will continue. Hasbara trolls never sleep.
That’s number seventeen
lol, and g’night.
ps, Does this mean we have no new ‘ordinary’ willing newcomers ? …Dream on Ishmael.
First sign of madness.
…..How can they sleep.
Its seventeen as pointed out above. And these links could bring some more:
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/jewish-vigilantes-jailed-over-paris-attack-gaza-fundraising-event-1637997442
http://newobserveronline.com/clinton-destroy-syria-israel/
That’s number eighteen
The Count, he likes to ****
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6AXPnH0C9UA
Craig, you advocate the forcible destruction of the world’s only Jewish state and say you’re not anti-Semitic? That’s going to be a bit of a hard sell, tbh. (And yes that’s what you’re advocating – what country would voluntarily vote itself out of existence?)
“Craig, you advocate the forcible destruction of the world’s only Jewish state and say you’re not anti-Semitic? ”
So you’re number 14. Typical hasbara mis-interpretation of what Craig said.
Sorry, that should be 18.
@Ted Alleyne,
Your ignorance knows no lower bound, but to answer your enquiry why not look at Czechoslovakia, which voluntarily voted itself out of existence in 1993 some 74 years after it’s founding in October 1918.
It voted to split, dipshit. BIG difference. Now let’s talk about Islamic states that don’t even pretend to have a democracy.
No, there is no big difference and don’t suggest otherwise, the state as it existed was abolished and two new states created, which provides recent evidence of an existing state voting itself out of existence. Facts dear boy, facts!!!!
Oh well at least that demonstrated that peaceful two state solutions are possible.
A worrying aspect of JSD’s 18 (so far) newcomers :
None of them have made any attempt to defend their comments. They shout their slogan and disappear again. Take the most recent one, ‘Ted Alleyne.’ He says
A glance at Craig’s post proves he said no such thing, so what is the point of making such a claim? Are these people stupid? No. Or at least the people who sent them here to make these comments aren’t stupid. Long after the dust has settled over this thread, Google will be returning those 18 instances (and counting) of “Craig Murray” and “anti-Semitic” in the same sentence. And Cohen, Kamm et al will be quoting those 18 comments from Craig’s own blog as proof that he IS anti-Semitic. There’s no smoke without fire, they’ll slyly imply.
So make no mistake, these comments are unsustainable lies but they are part of a deliberate systematic and EFFECTIVE campaign to attack Craig’s reputation.
D’oh! 19 instances now (and counting).
19 and waiting for the regulars: Kebab Cook, Resident Conformist and the other guys.
And you make somewhere around .. eight. Bigots, that is. Bigots who offensively reject the opinions of dissenting people and gang up to ridicule and drive them out of your “safe space”. Reminds me of cultists and other group narcissistic extremists.
Only one problem with your analysis about the ‘bigots’ jemand, namely these are folk who just happened to appear, post crap and then disappear, where as at least Harry one, there being two posters posting as Harry, had the common sense to engage and continue the dialogue, which most posters respect even if on different poles.
Now where did they all appear from, perhaps The Guardian once comments under the Cohen article were closed after 1hr 40mins.
Further, two issues were addressed by CM, these being that Nick Cohen is a hate monger who spews lies left, right and centre and the existence of Israel, which CM proposed be abolished and replaced by a more inclusive entity.
Now please answer these two questions.
Does Israel currently face an existential threat?
Does rampant anti-semitism exist within the Labour Party and on the Left in general.
For the record I’m a member of the Green Party and not Labour and as far as I can discern my own Party has many critics of Israel, which evidently under the new catch all criteria for new, new new anti-semitism no doubt makes the Green Party a hotbed of anti-semitism. Funny that.
That’s an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. Full of speculation & opinion. There are plenty of people who read & never comment. And many who read and comment only once on a matter close to them or controversial.
But the biggest reason to comment once only on this blog is the automatic spewing of bile on each and every one of their first & only comments. Who wants to argue with frothing nutters like those who comment here most frequently?
Many comments were also directed at Craig, like the one you quoted, and not at the anti-jew crowd, so they are probably not interested in replying to anyone other than Craig.
jimend,
As I have stated myself I’m not in favour of calling for an end to Israel, so me and CM differ. However, one does favour the two state solution based on 1967 borders, which whilst not addressing all Palestinian grievances, at least offers a way out of the quagmire. That we were studying this solution at University in 1990 only goes to prove how little has been done to solve the issue in the intervening 26 years.
And as for the interlopers, regrettably we are fully aware that the Israeli government pays individuals to Troll any website that has the temerity to critique Israel – hence the sudden appearance of one off posters kind of misfires because of this policy of ‘paid trolls.’
Now do you deny these facts too?
Ted Alleyne’s claim which I quoted above, is an easily disproved blatant lie. Why did he make it? On the surface it would seem to discredit his cause. I suggested a possible rationale which you correctly describe as “an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory.” Nonetheless, it fits the facts and seems plausible to me. Can you suggest a more plausible explanation?
Sorry, my comment above addressed to Jemand
Is it effective? And what reputation.
lol. At least someone tries to flesh out his advocacy…. Sry couldn’t help it.
England should definitely not exist. Everyone of Norman and Germanic descent should be subject to Celtic rule. The English occupation of Ireland, Scotland, Wales, and Cornwall is clearly illegal, colonialist, and should be dismantled, and reparations should be paid to the Celtic inhabitants of the British isles who were forced to emigrate by the exploitative economic and social actions of the non-Celtic occupiers.
For that matter, the Roman conquest of France, Spain, and Romania, eradicating the local cultures and enslaving the local populations was clearly evil and should be undone. Why were the local Celtic languages wiped out?
And while we’re undoing historical injustices, why not undo the Muslim conquests of the Middle East?
If Craig Murray sincerely believes that a one-state solution in what was once mandatory Palestine (but why not both banks of the Jordan, as in the original mandate?) would produce a “single democratic and secular state,” he is living in an alternative universe, where Syria and Iraq are democratic and secular states, respecting minority rights and flourishing under enlightened respect for justice.
Isreal isn’t a democracy, there is nothing liberal or democratic about brutal occupation and land theft by colonisers.
In an ideal world a country like Craig describes would benefit everyone. Who wouldn’t want a secular democracy where everybody is free to worship what ever God they want or worship no God?
A Jewish state can only exist when all the Palestinians and non Jews are removed from the territory the Zionists claim for their own.
Then America definitely should not exist.
“he is living in an alternative universe”
I’ll never dispute this. Particularly on this subject.
So far i’v heard zero practical means of getting straight to a single state, and not just from Craig. But though uncertain to simply enforce the law seems at least politically viable.
In reality only Isreal returning to its 67 borders is possible. But even that looks unlikely, how will half a million armed settlers be persuaded to move to Isreal?
If Israel wanted it to happen it would not be a massive thing at all.
But maybe only public pressure via some campaign could make that more likely.
As someone of Germanic descent who’s families have lived around the border areas of Wales for generations I’d happily submit to a Celtic independent Wales. Indeed, my daughter due to racist Tory immigration rules has been denied her cultural heritage and being taught in our own language, namely Welsh at a Welsh medium school – still, on the bright side she’s now taught in English and Chinese in China.
Lovely rabbinical argument, Yakov. I particularly love the sarcasm. But behind that, to make your case, you are saying that because the Celts were marginalised so long ago by subsequent invaders, they don’t have the historical right to sole occupation of the UK? And I am sure you would agree that if [insert major power here] were to insist that the UK became a homeland for diaspora Celts everywhere, adherence to whose ancient religion should become a condition of full citizenship, eyebrows might be raised in the counsels of the great and good. Yet the same action in respect of an…err… ethnicity (or is it a faith or a culture this week? – I never can keep up) previously marginalised and dispersed from a territory which it took by force in the first place is morrally unimpeachable.
I call exceptionalism.
If you’re still there and not reproducing the Hasbara Handbook on UK Media Watch…
That tiny strip of land may well have less inhabitants than Scotland but it’s tentacles like Mycelium infest much of the Western world and truly modify the ‘DNA’ of governance in a most daunting and formidable way.
Israel’s influence has fabricated knowledge that is used to extort it’s will and ensure it’s survival. I am inclined to detail this knowledge albeit for now I must leave that to the insight and wisdom of Craig’s followers suffice to say the destruction of Iraq and the corruption of the organic movement called ‘Arab Spring’ that was sold to the public as a large protest movement and now proven to be a well orchestrated socially engineered political uprising used to gain a foothold over Syria – opening the door for Western intervention.
Indeed I ask for your trust in saying Israel’s influence in Washington is moving to negate the cease-fire deal in Syria, noting that this peace agreement, could very well turn out to be a political ploy crafted by Pentagon war makers looking to re-arm militants in the region; the three-way agreement between Washington, Russia and the Syrian government (and begrudgingly by the West’s other regional ‘stakeholders’ including Westminster) looks increasingly like it may just be the latest attempt to buy time – so that Washington, Turkey and Saudi Arabia can re-arm and replenish various militant fighting groups currently laying waste to Syria.
Indeed Israel has no mandate to exist considering the deceitful way it has effectively changed our world into one of terror and chaos.
“I am knocking off now. The count of new people logging on to this forum for the express purpose of insulting Craig Murray and jeering at his article, with hardly any pretence at intelligent comment or critique whatsoever, is currently at sixteen. That is absolutely amazing. I have never seen anything like this before, here or anywhere else.”
I have. What I find amazing is the similarity between Zionists and Scottish Nationalists. They both have what they consider self evident truths their God given rights as a chosen people, they have the same screwed notion of how democracy works and they both become abusive if you don’t see things their way, both look for ulterior motives for different opinions.
The Zionists “Israel has a right to exist” is no different to the Nationalist “It’s our oil” they both see a minority in their favour as a majority and calling people anti-Semitic is no different to calling the BBC biassed or labour “red Tories”.
Nationalists are Nationalists the world over, Jewish or Scottish.
Fred, I am sure that Scottish Jews for BDS would disagree with you.
SNP
SAP
SAD
BAD
Fred – at least the SNP isn’t insisting that citizens of Scotland should only have full civil rights if they are Free Presbyterians. And I’m not seeing any plans to build a privileged system of roads and settlements for the exclusive use of returning Real Scots (eg from Canada) on the bulldozed ruins of Gairloch, Ullapool and Thurso. Your comparison is completely specious. Please eject the bee from your bonnet.
Sectarianism is alive and well in Scotland despite claims of the most moral government in the world.
“Fred, I am sure that Scottish Jews for BDS would disagree with you.”
I’m sure the Zionists would say that Scottish Jews for BDS are motivated by a hatred of Israel, that they are self hating Jews.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/07/they-really-do-hate-scotland/comment-page-4/#comments
“I’m sure the Zionists would say that Scottish Jews for BDS are motivated by a hatred of Israel, that they are self hating Jews.”
Exactly!
“SNP
SAP
SAD
BAD”
This is fascinating. Let’s count the people who comment offering no argument or rebuttal but just insult and misrepresentation.
Nick Cohen is a sad case.
Much of his writing, such as “Waiting for the Etonians” was sharp and to the point. Yet, he has now become a vehicle for the lowest form of establishment propaganda with his current accusation that the Corbynite Left is shot through with antisemitism. While there may be the odd person here and there to which that label applies, the accusation is utter nonsense.
Excessive criticism of Israel – over and above that of worse cases, such as the Assad regime in Syria – springs not from a hatred of Israel as such, but an identification with the country by judging it as “one of us.” Ill doings by a family member incur more wrath, than worse behaviour by strangers.
When was the last time you or Sizer stood up to Zimbabwe, China, Russia, Assad, Saudi? Oh, I forgot …. they don’t have any Jews do they? Nick Cohen … who despite his name is not Jewish… is just balancing the situation.
Typical ‘bait & switch” Mr. Newman, but it would help if you read more of this blog, as unlike many posters, CM is quite opposed to Putin’s Russia. As for Syria, well it may be of benefit to Israel having Stria in flames, particularly given it has sold oil rights to some unsavoury characters, alas said oil is on Syrian territory – Funny that!
Now off you go and read MediaWatch and post elsewhere as you don’t know the first thing you are discussing unless you carefully review this Blog for the past several years – which no doubt you have failed to do, otherwise you’d not have mentioned Russia.
Hoisted by your own petard I’m afraid to say old bean.
Truth? I see no truth here – utter drek.
Biff another Zionist Troll
Here’s some more truth for you from the UN that clearly states that the IDF’s actions in Gaza in 2014 constitute grave human rights abuses and that the perpetrators are open to prosecution. Evidently the Report must be all lies and fabrications, despite one of the Commissioners being a Yank, so hardly biased old bean. Now fuck off and propagandise elsewhere as you are 24 hours late for the party you Zionist twat.
UN Gaza 2014 Report: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/CoIGazaConflict/Pages/ReportCoIGaza.aspx#report
Thank you Craig, I wish I had said this exactly as you have, bravo for you and for justice and a return to
a single Palestinian state where all are welcome and equal. We are moving towards the end of AIPAC and other egregiously influential pro-Israel lobbies in Washington D.C. and a return to unbiased pro-American fairness for all.
It’s as if Nick Cohen has strung together a list of hackneyed political phrases to give an impressionistic smear without actually being coherent enough to say anything original.