I was accused on Sky News of making comments attacking the Jewish tribe. Ripped from its context, the remark appeared so offensive I could not conceive I had ever made it. I find now that in fact I did say it, but in the context of a specific remark by an Israeli minister making a claim that the Israeli Prime Minister leads all Jews worldwide. My remark was part of a post attacking all racism. They could equally well have taken the quote “I wish nothing but good to all people, including all Jewish people” out of the post.
To be absolutely open, I repeat the post here:
Israeli economics minister Naftali Bennett has claimed of Binyamin Netanyahu that “The prime minister is not a private person but the leader of the Jewish state and the whole Jewish world.” Really? Netanyahu is the leader of all the Jews in London, or California, or Ethiopia, who may never have set foot in his state?
This extraordinary remark by Bennett lays bare the fundamental flaw in the very concept of Israel. It is not a modern state, defined as a territory and comprising all the various citizens of whatever descent who live within it. It is rather a vicious racist construct, defined absolutely by race, refusing territorial limits, and with an aggressive theocratic overlay that claims tribal superiority over the entire rest of the world.
Here is a picture of the New Zealand cricket team. In the last twelve months, New Zealand cricket teams have fielded payers including Hamish Rutherford, Peter Fulton, Colin Munro, Dean Brownlie, Ross Taylor, Rob Nicol, Corey Anderson, Grant Elliott, Jimmy Neesham, Kyle Mills, Adam Milne and Mark Craig, not to mention the McCullum brothers. But if I told you that Alex Salmond was the leader of all Scots around the world, including the Black Caps, you would quite rightly call me a nutter.
We would not tolerate the level of racism in any other country that we tolerate from Israel. There was a huge outcry against Labour MP Paul Flynn who dared question whether it was sensible to send a strongly professed Zionist Jew as British ambassador to Israel, but when the Israeli government itself proclaim the political leadership of all Jews all over the world, it is a logical impossibility not to ask the question.
I wish nothing but good to all people, including all Jewish people, but by their increasingly hardline racialist approach, their unceasing encroachment on Palestinian land and their rigorous adoption of all the racist mechanisms of an apartheid state internally, I fear that the window of opportunity for a peaceful future for those Jewish people living in what is currently Israel is closing fast.
It must be universally proclaimed: there is not a single racial group in the whole world from whom worldwide racial claims of political allegiance, or an internal racially based legislative order, are acceptable. Bennett’s remarks are beyond the limit of civilised political discourse.
Stay brave and telling the truth. The media will do it’s best to stop you in any way it can. But it is so important that people like you, who can be heard, keep telling it like it is.
Stating a fact, countering the absurd notion that Netanyahu is somehow King of the Jews (or at least their leader) is “attacking the Jewish tribe”? Unbelievable. They must have been desperate to hit up a human rights champion with that weak nonsense, but then again – it’s the charge that is important, not any truth behind it.
What is this with reducing Jewish people and their actions to that of a simple nomadic folk, going around their humble and harmless little business? Invading occupiers are “settlers”, a mighty, nuclear armed country is a “tribe”, a hulking great partition wall is a “fence”. I suppose it helps along the meme of poor little victims being cruelly harassed at every turn.
Glenn, come be a Jew or an Israeli for 10 minutes and tell me how it feels to be “a mighty, nuclear armed country”.
In the world there are 14 million Jews, 2.2 billion Christians and 1.6 billion Muslims.
There are 28 countries in the EU, 50 states in the US and 22 countries in the Arab League – one Jewish state
There are 6 million Jews in the Middle East and over 300 million Arabs in the Middle East.
Now in your lala land you might think it’s not important to belong to a larger religion/culture/ethnic group but let me ask you a simple question, why did so many westerners change their FB profile to Je suis Paris but nothing for attacks in Turkey or Kenya? that’s right, its because they identify with Parisiens in a way they don’t with Turks or Kenyans.
Israel, is the country of a tiny global ethnic minority surrounded by Arabs, the majority of whom are Muslim.
As an Israeli who lives under constant threat and who has seen his fair share of death, depicting Israel as a global superpower is the modern version of the “Jews are powerful, they control the banks and media”.
No, we’re not powerful. Our allies are allies as long as they have an interest to be. We are outnumbered and we have no natural resources with which to hold the world by the you-know-what.
Leave your cushy little western life and come be Israeli for a while, maybe then you’ll get what complexity is all about.
It’s always everyone else’s fault, eh.
[ Mod: Caught in filter, timestamp updated ]
—
Israel, thank you for writing openly in this fashion. May I just mention from the outset something which ought not to be necessary, but under the circumstances probably is. I don’t dislike Jews. I earnestly hope that Bernie Sanders would become the US president (although that’s looking less likely). I grew up being outraged and horrified at the atrocities of the Nazis in WW-II, not so much as a Welsh person (who had lost family during that war) but at the action taken against the Jews. Visiting the Anne Frank museum was one of the most moving experiences in my memory.
And I really do intend watching my DVD of “Fiddler on the roof” any day now. (Just kidding)
We thought for a while my wife was Jewish, her family came from Austria, fleeing there during WW-II. It turns out she’s not after all, it was incorrect information. Heck, it didn’t bother me one way or another, in fact I thought it would be quite interesting if she did turn out to be Jewish.
Such qualifications before commenting should not be necessary, but it does appear you feel you do not have an ally here, simply because of your race. That is not true.
It struck me as appallingly insulting when Jews from Britain were invited to Israel, on the ground they weren’t safe here. How dare another Prime Minister suggest we would not protect our own! – was my first thought. I would run down to defend the nearest Synagogue myself were it under attack.
When we visit the continent, France particularly, we observe the memorials in every small town to the Jews taken from there, and I think… if it were not for the Cenotaphs in Britain commemorating the soldiers who died defending us, we would also have such such memorials. The soldiers died, instead of lists of Jews who perished in concentration camps. Such memorials never fail to bring tears to my eyes as I read their names, yet I feel compelled to do so each place we visit, just to pay that small amount of observance to the atrocity.
—
This is a long way around saying that you are not as alone as you think, you have many natural allies. A bunker mentality makes everyone look like a potential enemy (if they care at all).
Every group that has been persecuted will be seen as a potential threat. The Americans regarded the Native Americans as a blood-lusting threat after them. Then blacks were a terrible danger. Hence the persecution and down-treading of “the other” for many generations, because we fear those we have persecuted, lest they get their own back.
You are outnumbered, sure. Just like Jews in Iran are outnumbered, yet they do not feel threatened. Celts are outnumbered, and my lot is effectively a small colony of England’s.
You might note that Western powers (the US & UK in particular) have spent extra-ordinary amounts of blood and money attacking Muslim countries for no very good reason in recent decades, with the net result of turning them into Islamic theocratic and largely unstable states, and highly undesirable places to live on the whole. They themselves have good reason to feel under attack.
—
Thank you again for the tone in which you wrote, I do have a small insight to your views, even here in my luxuriously cushy little lala land of a somewhat impoverished and down-trodden English colony. I hope we can continue this conversation.
Glenn, thank you too for your authentic response.
I don’t think anybody here hates Jews. When I accuse of antisemitism it is similar to the way 50 years ago most people were chauvinists. It was’t out of a disrespect of women it was simply what was accepted – women belonged in the home.
Antisemitism today is a default not an active hatred. It is the obsession with Israel (disproportional media coverage, protests, BDS), the perception of Israel as a superpower (as I said we’re not and such a perception connects to the antisemitic depiction of the Jew as all-powerful) and the perception of Israeli Jews as colonizing westerners (comparing the Jews arriving in Israel to the white man landing on the shores of America or Australia is an attempt to blur the constant presence of Jewish communities in Israel and their powerful historical connection to the land. It effectively negates our true identity and tries to present us as European colonialists).
I thank you for saying we are not alone but we are. If 1000 people are killed tomorrow in an attack in Tel Aviv it probably won’t ruin the day of most Europeans or Americans. We’re not Paris, we’re not London. We’re some tiny complicated country in the Middle East.
As for Western involvement in the Middle East (“attacking Muslim countries for no very good reason”).
You’re right, most European and US policy in the Middle East has been a shambles for the simple reason that they don’t understand the Middle East. But that doesn’t stop them from telling us what we should be doing. And that brings me to the last reason as why we are alone – most Westerners simply don’t get what this conflict is about.
Most westerners perceive this as a conflict about territories and roadblocks the truth is that those are the outcomes of the conflict. The conflict existed long before that. Israel was established with a potential Palestinian State beside it. Israel accepted the two state solution from the very first day of its existence.
This has nothing to do with all that, this is simply a conflict of narratives. Already 100 years ago when Jews started to express their wish to not only be a minority in Palestine but to reestablish a Jewish autonomy, the Arabs would not accept that narrative. In 1948 the Arabs were given a state but they did not accept our narrative and instead went to war with us together with surrounding Arab countries (yep, they were never a weak minority, that’s just the more recent spin, back then they were part of the Arab people with warplanes and tanks).
The attached video summarizes it pretty neatly, this is what the Palestinian leader, the freedom fighter against the “racist” State of Israel has to say about the rights of Jews (with their desecrating filthy feet) to visit their most sacred place in the world – the Temple Mount (I remind that it was holy to Jews before Islam even existed and the reason why a Mosque was built on it is because that’s how the imperialistic powers colonize other cultures – by building their new culture atop the conquered culture).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfZHJWJJz7M
Well done on biased Sky News. This just another attempt by Blairites to smear Colbyn. They illegally invaded Iraq and Libya, secular countries with free education and health care which were modernising. They support apartheid Israel and absolute despot monarchy Saudi Arabia.
Trump being called out as predicted.
“They could equally well have taken the quote “I wish nothing but good to all people, including all Jewish people” out of the post.”
They could but that quote would not have suited their purposes. These people have great experience in propaganda techniques and defending crimes on the back of anti Semitism. I applaud your braveness and willingness to stand up and be counted in defence of free speech and human rights.
“These people”? you mean “Ze Jews?” those who control the world’s banks and the global media? oh boy…Craig, I hope you’re reading these comments…
“These people”? you mean “Ze Jews?”
Do not attempt to put words into my mouth. No I do not mean “Ze Jews?” as you so crudely put it.
Those that defend the illegal military occupation and colonization of Palestinian territories by Israel in the media and ‘spotlight’ are the particular group I am referring to.
You did so crudely put it and you continue to do so – I am an Israeli Jew and you are calling me a colonizer.
So lets get this straight – my people, culture and faith were on this land centuries before Christianity or Islam and yet come to Jerusalem and see how atop my most precious sacred sites sit the Churches and Mosques of the two most violent and murderous colonial imperialistic powers of the last millennium – the Europeans and the Arabs.
You see Manda, the truth is that I am the minority, I am the conquered, the expelled, the colonized. I am the “Native American”, the “African Tribe”, the “Indians of the Amazons” who have come to reclaim their land. I am the People of Israel who has reclaimed its land, its dignity and mastery over its own fate.
I shouldn’t be here, I know, I should have disappeared like all the rest of the peoples that your forefathers destroyed. But I didn’t and that annoys you doesn’t it. Much simpler if the mega-powers could slice up the world between them – Europeans, Arabs, Asians, etc. Why do these pesky Jews need to cause trouble by surviving.
Well Manda, while you yourself did not colonize most of the world and murder millions and as did modern day Arabs themselves not colonize the Middle East by slaughtering whole villages, we must all bear the consequences of the actions of previous generations.
So here we are today. I’m keen for peace happy for a friendly Palestinian State beside me. But don’t you ever dare to call me a colonizer!
You’re much more extreme than most Israelis, and appear to have little conception of the modern state.
it’s that, and not your many imaginary enemies, which will destroy you.
Seems to be very much baked-in.
A feature, not a bug.
There is nothing Jewish about zionism you casuistical popinjay, shame on you.
You continue to put words into my mouth and rant on fabricating our own fantasy about what I mean and then threaten me. There are people called Israeli settlers in the illegally occupied Palestinian territories, settlers are colonizers.
I will not reply to you any more.
No, he clearly means establishment propagandists. You’ve clearly got a bad case of “Reds under the beds”.
Try Daktarin or caneston it’ll clear up those red itches straight away!
Shatersrug, so “these people” refers to “establishment propagandists” as in PR and marketing people that every government has? and if that is what is being referred to then one must ask, do all PR and marketing people by the nature of their profession “have great experience in propaganda techniques and defending crimes on the back of anti Semitism…”? …hmmm
Herbie, I see reading comprehension is not your strong point. I mentioned no enemies, whether imagined or not. All I said was that comparing Jews in Israel to the white people who colonized lands they had no business being in is malicious and evil.
Manda, settlers aren’t collonizers. You have no idea about the history of Israel and you have no idea what the difference for example between Tiberius, which is not a settlement , and Hebron, which is considered a settlement, (both by the way are ancient Jewish cities that have always had a Jewish population). You don’t know and therefore prefer to not continue this conversation. Bury your head in your simplistic racist sand. Complexity can be terribly irritating.
As I have frequently said of Fred, Habbabkuk and others, the purpose of this blog is to make people think. It is a very good thing that people will come and debate here who hold views different to my own.
On both sides – Israel, can you not have a presumption that you have enemies here and avoid making a couple of rather uncivil comments. Equally Herbie and others, please stop the sharp comments at Israel. Argument is good. I have friends with whom I profoundly disagree.
As an indigenous inhabitant of what is now called the state of Israel, your minority position must be unsettling. It is unfortunate that the racism and colonial attitudes of the 19th and 20th centuries, persist to blight innocents of today, of whatever faith or ethnicity.
David Lloyd George, who was Prime Minister at the time of the Balfour Declaration, told the Palestine Royal Commission in 1937 that the Declaration was made “due to propagandist reasons.”[51] Citing the position of the Allied and Associated Powers in the ongoing war, Lloyd George said, in the Report’s words:
In this critical situation it was believed that Jewish sympathy or the reverse would make a substantial difference one way or the other to the Allied cause. In particular Jewish sympathy would confirm the support of American Jewry, and would make it more difficult for Germany to reduce her military commitments and improve her economic position on the eastern front… The Zionist leaders gave us a definite promise that, if the Allies committed themselves to giving facilities for the establishment of a national home for the Jews in Palestine, they would do their best to rally Jewish sentiment and support throughout the world to the Allied cause. They kept their word.[51]
The Balfour Declaration represented the convinced policy of all parties in our country and also in America, but the launching of it in 1917 was due, as I have said, to propagandist reasons…. The Zionist Movement was exceptionally strong in Russia and America…. It was believed, also, that such a declaration would have a potent influence upon world Jewry outside Russia, and secure for the Entente the aid of Jewish financial interests. In America, their aid in this respect would have a special value when the Allies had almost exhausted the gold and marketable securities available for American purchases. Such were the chief considerations which, in 1917, impelled the British Government towards making a contract with Jewry.[25] – Lloyd George
“The phrase ‘the establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people’ was intended and understood by all concerned to mean at the time of the Balfour Declaration that Palestine would ultimately become a ‘Jewish Commonwealth’ or a ‘Jewish State’, if only Jews came and settled there in sufficient numbers.”[62] – Leopold Amery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917
On 20 August 1937, the Twentieth Zionist Congress expressed that at the time of the Balfour Declaration it was understood, that the Jewish National Home was to be established in the whole of historic Palestine, including Trans-Jordan, and that inherent in the Declaration was the possibility of the evolution of Palestine into a Jewish State.[25]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peel_Commission
‘..All I said was that comparing Jews in Israel to the white people who colonized lands they had no business being in is malicious and evil…’
I think I have an answer to that in my comment later, 30th April 02:36.
Apparently genocide is fine, if ‘G*d’ tells you to do it – indeed commands it!!
To quote myself to correct an error in typing which affects my meaning greatly..
“… rant on fabricating our own fantasy…”
Should read …rant on fabricating your own fantasy…
As for threatening you. If I saw a person use racist slurs against a black person or derogatory terms against a gay person I would also “threaten” them to not dare use those expressions again. Calling me a colonizer negates my history and identity.
Israel and Palestinians are in conflict over a connection we both have to the same strip of land. It is not a colonizer – colonized situation by any means.
Very interesting. I certainly appreciate where Craig is coming from as regards the motivations of some Zionists and the way Israel was created and is being run.
But on a more fundamental level, a zero sum analysis if you will, is theat there are just a bunch of people in a place and only a small percentage of those people are lost to anger. I truly believe most people are ‘reachable’ as in they can be persuaded. But it’s important that if you are trying to ‘reach’ people, Israeli people in this case, that it’s done with kindness and respect.
Many countries were founded in pools of blood. It doesn’t make the current population bad even if they don’t know their history.
Let’s focus on stepping stones that move us forward as a race, a human race.
Creating micro businesses owned 50% by Israeli’s and 50% by Palestinians. So they have a chance to create together, work together and discover new friendship between peoples. Also the chance to experience profit by working together. It could be as simple as making bracelets, each group making a different part of it then selling it to supportive people online.
I believe grassroots solutions. Simple, practical solutions are the way forward. These grassroots schemes will reveal the vacuity of all governing elites globally.
We know, we see the efforts that normal Israeli and Palestinians make to reach out to each other. The sad fact is that we are all under the thumb from a very powerful and increasingly deranged elite.
@Shatsnersrug – A poll found that 68% of Israeli Jews would refuse to live in the same building as an Israeli Arab, 46% would refuse to let an Arab visit their homes, and 41% support segregation in places of recreation. Another poll found that over 75% of Israeli Jews do not approve of Jews and Arabs living in the same blocks of flats, 60% wouldn’t allow an Arab into their home, and 40% thought Israeli Arabs should have their right to vote removed.
The “norm” among Israeli Jews is extreme racism – so pervasive and strong that you have probably never seen anything like it and it would make your jaw drop.
I missed it, was out. If its repeated on Sky News, I may upload it to youtube. I don’t normally watch TV
Carwyn Jones wasted no time in jumping on the bandwagon against Livingstone yesterday.
Below is the weaselling explanation he sent today for his crass stupidity:
This is what will happen. I am surprised you are surprised.
But I am sure if we look we can find quotes from Tony Blair, David Cameron, or even Netanyahu which will make them appear anti-semitic. It might be worth doing. We need to expose the tactic.
What did they actually quote?
I don’t know, but let me guess. “It is rather a vicious racist construct, defined absolutely by race, refusing territorial limits, and with an aggressive theocratic overlay that claims tribal superiority over the entire rest of the world.” Am I right?
OK. But that could only be a quote about Israel (not Jewish people).
It was simply “Israel claims tribal superiority over the entire rest of the world.”
Well, a lot of people who aren’t buying this witch-hunt may well have been nodding along in agreement.
I haven’t see the interview, but I struggle to see any context in which such a remark could be considered vaguely sensible.
Craig gives the context in his posting above.
Let’s look on the bright side. Perhaps lots of people will be led to your blog to see what other nutcase comments you have made – and they will find what a reasonable person you are after all.
Best wishes. Look forward to hearing it when available, as I missed it.
I think that’s Ken’s plan isn’t it – he’s sacrificed his position but created an interest in the corruption that lies at the heart of post war political Zionism.
Corbyn has pretty much shrugged it off and the Blairites look even more insane – it’s also thrown a light on the going ons of Israel.
The BBC look more compromised than ever and the Guardian have made a fool of themselves. So all together a failure for corporate media.
Truth to tell I doubt he anticipated that John Mann would go ape like that.
I’d love to know what Mann’s constituents think of his behaviour. He is the one guilty of racism if he seeks to conflate Israeli violence with Jewish people.
Your a disgrace to humanity
Oh, here we go.
Who is? Netanyahu? Yes I’d agree – murderous monster is what I’d call him.
I can tolerate gross stupidity, but I can’t abide inept grammar.
@Craig – What was the remark that they ripped out of context?
(And don’t let the racist bastards grind you down, btw! As well as being racist bastards, Zionists are also totally dishonest in the way they argue.)
Well said Craig.
The hysteria around Ken Livingstones remarks is clearly whipped up with the press claiming he said ‘Hitler was a Zionist’,He said nothing of the kind. The orchestrated mob of Blairites have been demanding Kens blood.
What Ken Livingston said was this “Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism”……
He did not say that Hitler was a Zionist. This is an invention of the press. His statement is a matter of historical record and the evidence is in the Haavara agreement..see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
Zionism – which the Chair of the British Board of Jewish Deputies says is ‘the Jewish Right to Self Determination’ – increasingly excludes Palestinians and is racist towards Palestinians.
The state of Israel was carved out of land largely lived in by indigenous Arabs who, in 1948, were subject to extreme terrorism – rape, robbery, murder and destruction of property – to form the state of Israel. 750,000 were driven out into the West Bank, Gaza, Jordan and Lebanon. Now the Israeli state is taking over more and more of the remnants of Palestine by importing settlers into the West Bank in the name of Zionism.
Anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism. This is an attempt to shut people up who complain about Israeli actions.
The LP needs to adopt a position agains all racism – anti-semitism, Islamaphobia and Zionism.
“Jews vote Conservative because they’re rich.”
Another Ken classic.
Anybody who wasn’t familiar with your hate-mongering might assume that Ken Livingstone said those words between the quote marks. I am so I checked and he didn’t. You should apologise to us and Ken for being deliberately misleading.
Well spotted. There is no limit on what Zio-apologists will descend to.
Have any of the corp-0-rat media pointed out that Hitler never won an election and he was manoeuvred into the Chancellorship on 30 January 1933 and that in the half-bent 5 March 1933 election, despite the SA-Police terror and electoral fraud and corruption, the Germans still rose to the occasion and rejected the NSDAP?
Hitler: Thirty Days to Power by Henry Ashby Turner etc
NeoZionists control the corporate media so it was no surprise to me that Craig was set up in the manner that he was. But I do believe something beneficial will come of it.
I’d say its more along the lines of sensational headlines than “NeoZionists control”.
The state of Israel is doing a fantastic job of making sure anti-Zionist comments are now seem as anti Jewish comments. You cannot criticise the state of Israel anymore without being branded racist. They want those two separate words to mean the same thing so that criticism of Israel can never exist.
How to persuade the world that Zionist is essentially apartheid whereas Judaism is simply a religious belief. The two have almost nothing to do with each other !
I still cannot understand how a small and frankly irrelevant country can get away with quite literally murder on a mass scale and still receive the support of any government. Let alone the media and people in general. I don’t think Labour has an anti Semite problem, but it clearly has an Zionist problem that is being portrayed as racism.
Also interesting to note that Ken is an “outer” for the EU debate, cant help but feel that this maybe a case of if you cant attack the issue… attack the man. Something Craig has suffered big time.
You are a modern day reflection of the very thing you abhor Mr. Murray. You are a patronizing colonialist judging an ancient culture you know nothing about while having the audacity to tell us we should be more like you. Just like your forefathers did while they raped and pillaged, sorry, I meant “brought the word of Christ” to the uncivilized primitives.
Yes, you are right, Jews are tribal and tight knit. We had to be in order to survive the 12th century, 14th century, 18th century or any century version of you – always waiting to find a reason to crucify, burn or simply expel us.
For 2000 years there has been constant communication between Jewish communities all over the world and we perceived ourselves as one people exiled and dispersed. By the way, it was for this reason that Israel was so successful in absorbing immigration. Ever wondered how Jews from all over the world – from Ethiopia, Iraq and Yemen to Austria, France and the UK – succeeded to ease so seamlessly into their new identity of being Israeli? In contrast, just take a look at how Arab countries around Israel fell apart once their dictator was removed. That is because the peoples of those countries never shared a common identity – they were a collection of different tribes forced into a country with defined borders by….oh, by people like you – Europeans who know what’s best.
So, in conclusion.
You have no idea of the historic references and ideas that lie behind Bennetts words but they certainly have nothing to do with claiming tribal superiority over the entire rest of the world. I’m not so sure whether you’re so much anti-semitic as you are simply ignorant.
I don’t think that Ethiopian Jews were given the chance to “ease so seamlessly into their new identity”. What they were given, without their permission or knowledge, was long-term contraception intended to prevent them from having children who might make the racist state of Israel a tad less white.
Scots, I don’t know where you get your racist info from. But by repeating it you yourself become a racist. Israel isn’t white, Israel is made up of Jews and Arabs, neither of whom are white. Ignorant fool.
The racist info comes from racist Israel:
“Israel Admits Ethiopian Women Were Given Birth Control Shots”
“A government official has for the first time acknowledged the practice of injecting women of Ethiopian origin with the long-acting contraceptive… ”
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-admits-ethiopian-women-were-given-birth-control-shots.premium-1.496519
Ignorant fool.
There were many problems with Jews who came from rural underdeveloped countries not understanding medical treatments they were given – that’s the what the story is about. It was not a government policy to stop them having children. The Israeli government brought them to Israel through a complex operation- hardly the actions of a racist state, why would they then want to get rid of them? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Solomon
As a Jew I must tell you that as I write these words I feel like, well, I feel like a Jew. I am having misinformation blended with lies thrown at me and told I am bad – a racist. It is now up to me to try and prove to the saintly Christians that I am not a Christ killing, baby blood drinking devil.
In any event, as history has taught me, I won’t succeed.
This Herbie and Scots is your racism and anti-semitism.
“There were many problems with Jews who came from rural underdeveloped countries not understanding medical treatments they were given”
If someone with whom you are engaged in disputation had said that, I have no doubt that you would have seized upon it as evidence of racism and anti-Semitism. Why should Jews from rural underdeveloped countries be unable to understand the implications of medical treatments?
You claim:
“There were many problems with Jews who came from rural underdeveloped countries not understanding medical treatments they were given”
BUT.
That’s not what the investigation found:
“sometimes intimidated or threatened into taking the Depo-Provera shot, often being misled about why”
“In addition to Eliahu-Chai, Gal Gabbay, an investigative journalist who had interviewed 35 Ethiopian immigrants, found that while the women were still in transit camps in Ethiopia they were sometimes intimidated or threatened into taking the Depo-Provera shot, often being misled about why. “They told us they are inoculations,” said one of the women interviewed. “They told us people who frequently give birth suffer. We took it every three months. We said we didn’t want to.””
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/28/israel_admits_ethiopian_jewish_immigrants_were_given_birth_control_shots/
So, what else are you lying about?
Herbie, while there were certainly things that were done that shouldn’t have been done, these were made worse by the many cultural and language barriers. But if any of my Ethiopian friends who served with me in the military, went to university with me and live in my neighborhood, were part of this conversation they would tell you that the only racist is you in thinking you have any right to represent them based on half truths you read in a newspaper article, Spare me.
There’s no muddle.
The Ethiopian women were quite clear:
Intimidated
Threatened
Misled
Lied to about what the drugs were
They said they didn’t want them
“they were sometimes intimidated or threatened into taking the Depo-Provera shot, often being misled about why. “They told us they are inoculations,” said one of the women interviewed. “They told us people who frequently give birth suffer. We took it every three months. We said we didn’t want to.””
You simply can’t tell the truth about anything.
And that’s how you cover for your crimes against Palestinians as well.
And spare me your tall tales of brotherly love and comradeship with Ethiopians in the IDF:
The usual Israeli racism is alive and well there too:
“One in every three soldiers of Ethiopian heritage serves time in the army’s jails. Slowly but not always surely, the IDF is trying to reverse a dire trend that, many argue, is rooted in wider Israeli ignorance and racism”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/battling-to-integrate-the-idfs-misunderstood-ethiopian-recruits/
Netanyahoo looks rather Euro don’t you think?
Yup, all Jews are secretly racists! Good thing we’re all being anti-racist here. Best make sure there are no Jews around, otherwise our anti-racist conversation might be tainted by their secret racism!
You don’t think “Jews” are a monolith do you? The only thing I’ve ever noticed about anyone who professes to be a Jew is that they have all been antizionists.
And even more in conclusion, Israel would behave like a civilised country if were not for the US of A backing it no matter what it does. As it is, Israel is America’s child, and can do no wrong. We all know what happens to children who never get disciplined, and the sort of people they grow to become.
We should also know why America is so indulgent. America is a fanatical Christian country, who believes that war and death must take place on a mighty scale to bring about the Rapture, the Second Coming of Christ.
When there is a sufficiently high pile of bodies, the Baby Jesus will be happy, come slithering down the corpses, and Rapture the faithful to heaven – and this is where Israel comes in.
It’s your job to provide the pile of bodies, but then you will have to convert to Christianity or be put to the sword – ask any fundamentalist Christian lunatic (America is full of them). So that deal doesn’t work out so well for you, actually, but if you don’t believe any of that nonsense, you don’t have to worry. Just hope the Yanks carry on with that delusion, indulging your appalling crimes against humanity in the meantime.
“America is a fanatical Christian country, who believes that war and death must take place on a mighty scale to bring about the Rapture, the Second Coming of Christ”.
A belief that finds absolutely no support whatsoever in the recorded sayings of Jesus Christ himself. His views on war and harming children were plainly expressed:
“And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also”.
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea”.
They get it all out of the Revelation of St John. There is plenty of war and death in there.
A shame that the most powerful country is so shaped by the ravings of an fanatic, probably high on hallucinogens while holed up in Greece, as he contemplated the destruction of the Roman Empire.
At one time Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all monotheistic proselytising religions. It may be rather profane or disrespectful to compare them to franchise branding, but nonetheless that appears to be how they were perceived by some power holders who adopted those religions. At some point Judaism ceased to proselytise and I don’t know why that was. I would be interested to understand more about that process.
I find the poster Israel’s branding of white exploitative Christian rapists and of weak Arab countries somewhat provocative, perhaps deliberately so. Anyway I accept that colonialism is inherently a negative experience for those who become the subjects, and I deplore historians who attempt to portray colonial history as a wholly positive experience for the subject peoples. That is not to say I do not have positives to find in the British Empire. It is an amazing story and sums up many positive and negative buccaneering characteristics of the people of this island. Its part of my history and I don’t hate it or even regret it. I simply accept that it had negative consequences. I best shut up about it. I know that. Opium (hhhm).
Notwithstanding the long history of Jews we can not ignore the C20 and the establishment of a new nation in the C20. We have to consider how to balance the horror of WWII with the Israel’s own terrorism that gave birth to Israel. In my mind it may have been justified. It was how they had to behave, intelligently and ruthlessly. But if we accept that Israel was justified in terrorism what does that also tell us i.e. who else is justified in terrorism. Israel succeeded and as The Gatekeepers documentary on Shin Beth makes clear went on succeeding. It is always necessary for a new country to create a national myth. We all do it and keep doing it. The Hanoverian monarchy did it and we do not now think of a Dutch invasion of England in 1688. The Victorians did it. The Windsors did it and go on adapting and creating new myths and changing their name. Meiji Japan did. As Schlomo Sands makes clear elites used to use religion to bind people to them and then after religious texts were printed and available to all began to use national myths to bind. C20 Israel is no exception, but because it is relatively recent it is more obvious. There came a time to do the deal. That is the theme of The Gatekeepers. The deal was not done when it could have been done. Shin Beth didn’t just have the upper hand but had thoroughly penetrated every village. Why then was the deal not done? Apparently because of the particular difficulties arising from proportional representation and the need to keep extreme religious minority elements on board to hold coalitions together?
The unfortunate consequence of not doing a deal with the Palestinians is that the world perceives Israel as a bully. It achieved complete dominance and has gone on too far. So it has to accept criticism and resolve its dispute over Palestine. Otherwise it becomes like a very successful, strong, wealthy grown up teenager. Everyone waiting for it to mellow out. I know what your response is: you will call me a hypocrite and that we in the UK, the EU and the US are just pretending to be mellow, human rights loving democrats – maybe so…..
I like Russell’s post above about new companies of Jewish and Palestinians working together. From small acorns do oaks grown. Many acorns are scattered and do not grow, but some do.
By the way can we have link to Bennett’s words please.
When did Judaism ever proselytise?
Martinned
I posted a response to this but it seems to have gone off for moderation. I am not sure why although I had cut and pasted something from a Guardian review of Sands’ book, which contained a reference to K. and perhaps this K word is taboo. Maybe it will come out of moderation in a while. I hope it does as I also pasted a link to an interesting article, which was less conclusive than Sands.
Try not to let your indifference to the Judaeo-Chris tradition and the enlightenment show too blatantly babe, your jackboots are showing.
As Craig has written on this blog more eloquently than I could, I feel that the sensible middle ground of politics has deserted me, something exemplified in the orchestrated nonsense being spouted today by the Labour Party and the Guardian. Whoever opposes the interests of the Establishment, be it in Scotland or on Palestine, is branded a dangerous racist, while the real hoodlums of the world are given licence to murder at will.
I was thinking that very few people could fall for this type of smear campaign, it stinks of desperation, there’s just too many facts open to people willing to take a look at the situation in Israel and Palestine.
For me it boils down to full equality for everyone in the Middle East and beyond, regardless of race, gender, religion, ethnicity etc. If that makes me an Anti-Semite, then so be it.
People being smeared with their own words again?
Eh, yeah. Genuine criticism of Israel’s appalling human rights violations, being smeared as anti-semitic.
And Ken Livingstone’s mentioning that the Nazi’s had a policy of Jewish deportation, being smeared as “Hitler was a Zionist”, thus making Livingstone… yup you guessed it, anti-semitic.
I’m getting semantic satiation of anti-semitic its used so often.
The ‘liberal’ Guardian, is leading the attacks on Corbyn, who is the real target of this witch hunt like hysteria. The media never seems happier than when they allowed off the leash like a pack of hounds ripping some cornered fox to shreds in a vile frenzy of cant, hypocrisy and loathesome self-righteousness. The dishonestly of the whole episode is appalling. Literally conjuring an anti-Jewish pogrom out of thin air. The cynicism, stunning.
According to the Guardian there’s a line one can’t cross, calling into question Israel’s ‘right to exist.’ Only which Israel they are talking about isn’t mentioned. Is it tiny pre-1948 Israel, or the powerful, nuclear-armed, Greater Israel that occupies so much Palestinian territory today? The Guardian’s journalists simply spout Israel slogans like puppets. Well-paid puppets. They seem to have willingly absorbed Israeli and Zionist propaganda, myths, and partisan slogans, and made them their own. This can’t be called ‘journalism.’
Their appears to be an attempt to broaden the definition of racism and anti-semitism to include people, ideas and utterances that aren’t anti-semetic or racist, but are critical of Israel as a state and Zionism as an ideology. Israeli partisans are cynically exploiting these terms to attack their political opponents, and now the struggle seems to have broken out in the UK as well.
Don’t worry about the Guardian – they’re about to fire another 250 staff and go down to once a week publication – their future irrelevance is guaranteed.
Steve Bell, Ewan mccaskill and others have started a fight back against the board but I very much expect it to die very soon.
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/guardian-cutbacks-250-staff-go-30000-square-feet-shed-events-space-kings-cross-scrapped
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/alan-rusbridger-faces-challenge-guardian-staff-new-role-scott-trust-chairman
No coincidence this has erupted just days out from the local; body elections just as Corbyns Labour had drawn level with and in some polls begun outpolling the Tories…The battle goes on.
It is remarkable that you see nothing racist in the comments you have owned . They are so obvious that it appears you are beyond any logical discussion with regard to them.
The comments are only “racist” to those who mischievously conflate criticism of Israel’s foreign policy with anti-Semitism.
Such dishonourable behaviour is grossly insulting to genuine victims of anti-Semitism. You – clearly – want no logical discussion, and prefer hiding behind intellectually dishonest slurs to dealing with the issues at hand – i.e. Israel’s apartheid state and its foreign policy, particularly as far as it concerns the Palestinian people.
Comflating Zionism and Israeli aggression with Jewishness and disapproval of such as antisemitic is racism pure and simple.
If you are doing that your are a racist.
Please explain your statements. I do not understand them, and I cannot accept your unsupported opinion. What exactly did Craig say that you consider “racist”?
I’m not surprised they twisted or cherry picked your account, that’s what they do, to those oppose Israels oppression of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
“We would not tolerate the level of racism in any other country that we tolerate from Israel.”
Very true, Saudi Arabia apart of course, so why does the UN let Israel run rough shod all over the Palestinian people? The answer in my opinion, is America allows them. Which makes the UN, a spineless organisation.
Lying about Russia obviously doesn’t count then?
Shatnerrug.
I’m no fan of Putin, but Western hegemony, is at the forefront, of smearing Putin and releasing his financial accruments, which in my opinion are all but illegal, I very much doubt that Putin lives on his presidential wage alone.
Sorry I think you misunderstood me, I meant the Establish feel free to chuck around islamophobic and russophobic claptrap but anything about Israel especially true stuff is racism.
I found the Putin Panama crap just dull.
Some of us are able to distinguish between the Putin regime and Russia just like it is possible to distinguish between Netanyahu and Israel. It is those who are incapable of making such distinctions who are in my view the ones who are making racist generalisations.
Fascinating, isn’t it, that Israel and Saudi Arabia are the USA’s staunchest and most trusted allies? Although the USA is ostensibly devoted to freedom, democracy, free speech, the rule of law, and religious toleration – while Israel and Saudi Arabia are violently opposed to every single one of those things. Together, the three fling themselves upon any Muslim nation that makes any progress towards freedom, democracy, free speech, the rule of law, and religious toleration, and destroy it utterly. After which it is taken over by the most benighted and ignorant of religious fundamentalists. It seems the Americans value freedom, democracy, free speech, the rule of law, and religious toleration so highly that they want to keep them all to themselves, and not allow any other nation to enjoy them.
I like to call the USA, Israel and Saudi Arabia “the Axis of Fundamentalism”. Muslim fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism, and Money fundamentalism. And the greatest of these is Money fundamentalism.
Curious that Jesus Christ should have spoken out so unequivocally against the influence of money. What was that about “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God”? And “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon”?
The American Masters of the Universe seem to manage. But then, maybe “God” is just their word for mammon. “The Axis of Mammon” – that has a nice ring of truth.
Thank you for that comment Tom, you obviously have your eye on the ball.
What America is doing in the Middle East, is not new, Britain, opposed nationalism, and backed many a faction including the Muslim Brotherhood who also opposed nationalism, to keep Middle Eastern nations either in a state of unrest, or installed a British compliant, king, or dictator.
After the fall of the Ottoman empire, Western powers re-drew borders, and the ironic thing is, if we hadn’t intervened in the Middle East, post WWII, in my opinion the Arab nations would be fighting each other over old land issues brought about by the likes of the Sykes-Picot agreement.
This site gives you a idea of the unthoughtful border creations in the Midfle East by the West.
http://www.thetower.org/article/the-map-that-ruined-the-middle-east/
“I’m not surprised they twisted or cherry picked your account, that’s what they do, to those oppose Israels oppression of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.”
Of course that never happens to those like myself who support the right of Israel to exist, yet also believe in a Palestinian state and criticise the human rights abuses regardless of the perpetrators – whether they are the IDF, Hamas or Hezbollah.
Criticisms of a regime’s human rights record does not usually translate into denial of the right of a particular to state to exist – as far as I am aware I haven’t denied the right of Russia and Syria to exist. Perhaps some her might wish to explain why they single out Israel for such special treatment.
Someone needs to start a “conflating anti-Israeli Nationism and antisemitism is antisemitic” campaign as quickly as possible because these establishment propagandists have exposed themselves
I was astonished to hear about the outcry over Naz Shah’s remarks about Israel. None of them was anti-semitic, as she only criticized the state of Israel. (And as it happens, I have always agreed with everything she said). Some interviewer complained that Naz talked about “the Jews rallying round”, claiming that was anti-Semitic because she said the word “Jews”. But if I were to mention, in any context, “the Russians rallying round” or “the Americans rallying round”, would that be deemed racist? I really despair.
Then it got even worse. I heard Ken Livingstone being interviewed by the BBC, and he explained how Hitler had wanted to help send all the European Jews to Palestine. And it turned out that this, too, was something that must not be said! (But it’s true…!!)
As far as I can make out, any discussions of Israel, Jewish people, Jewishness, or any combination of the three is virtually illegal unless by Jews. The practical (and, no doubt, intended) effect of this is to prevent any discusion at all of those topics.
Having spent a lot of my life studying disciplines such as logic, history, and political science, I am astonished and horrified to find that so many apparently civilized and educated people are utterly impervious to facts and reasoned argument. I suppose that, when facts and reasoned argument make your chosen beliefs absolutely untenable, the inescapable conclusion is that facts and reasoned argument must go. Rather like the fat man who read about the harm that starch, sugar and beer were doing to his body, so he resolved to give up… reading.
I personally know a significant number of Israeli citizens who are finding it almost impossible to remain in the country now, such is their opposition to what is being done in their name. A crisis must surely arise form all this but a proportion of the change does have to come from people inside Israel who can detach themselves from the notion that it would be disloyal to criticise the state. Unfortunately the Right have created the bunker mentality in Israel that make them weak.
Well I honestly think that folks with dual citizenship need to start sending their passports back. I know from friends that the younger generation feel very caught between demonstrating their dislike with Israeli policy and disappointing the older generation who, understandably are very defensive of Israel.
“Doing Hitler’s work for him” is what my friend was told by her mother!
Why isn’t it possible for people to feel connected to two countries – if they have relatives in both countries. You are again making the racist generalisation that the political leadership of a country and the country itself are one and the same thing – they are not.
My wife and my children are all dual Russian and British nationals – and in so far as they have political convictions I don’t think they have much time for the current governments in either country, but they are proud of belonging to both countries.
Jamie Stern-Weiner. Fact-checking Newsnight on Labour’s ‘antisemitism problem’
https://jamiesternweiner.wordpress.com/2016/04/28/fact-checking-newsnight-on-labours-antisemitism-problem/
I wonder if the entire Zionist project and the ideology linked to it, aren’t in themselves…. ‘racist’? In a sense Craig’s right, Zionism is… ‘bullshit.’ It’s a form of central european nationalist, romantic, political and historical rhetoric that’s been used and abused to justify horrendous neo-colonialist expansion and multiple crimes aimed at replacing the population of Palestine with another population, based on highly contentious religious, historical and ethnic criteria which don’t stand up to scrutiny, unless one is a believer in the veracity of Biblical mythology. Who are the legitimate Israelis? What about the roughly 15% of the population who are Palestinians? If one includes the Palestinians inside Greater Israel, which includes the occupied territories, one can argue that the Palestinians are already close to a majority, and that’s before one includes the millions who are denied their right to return to their homes by the Israeli state. Include them,the refugees scattered around the Middle East, and we see the contours of a state, Israel/Palestine, where the real ethnic majority population is ruled over by a minority, the Jewish population of Israel/Palestine, who’ve ‘rigged’ democracy in their favour, and yet insist, despite all this, that they are a towering beacon of democracy. This would be grotesque if it wasn’t so tragic
Wow, Writerman, you are so ignorant about what Zionism is.
It’s 19C European nationalism.
You condemn it in Europeans but seek it for yourself.
Lol -oh boy, so much ignorance.
Ok, Zionism is the 2000 year old aspiration of the Jewish People to return to their homeland.
Jews throughout the ages were Zionist in that sent.
Jusah Halevi, a famous medieval Jewish poet wrote “An Ode to Zion” in the 11th century – he was a Zionist.
Nachmanides, a 12th century Jewish sage immigrated to Israel and built the famous Nachmanides Synagogue which stands to this day – he was a Zionist.
I could go on and on…
What you are referring to is the Zionist Movement, the political movement that set its objective to realize the ancient Zionist aspiration. That is why the Zionism Movement was able to inspire not only Jews from Europe but also Yemen, Ethiopian, Morocco and all over the world, because it was not a European nationalist ideology. Jews all over the world were Zionists for centuries before.
I’m getting bored. If you want to know about my history and culture, come to Israel and learn it. If not, keep your nose out of things your obviously know nothing about.
All you’ve done there is retrofit 19C European nationalism/Zionism to ancient myth.
Have you any idea who else did that?
And that’s the problem.
You’re in exactly the same mental space as 19C European nationalism
Although, it could be argued that those playing catchup, the Germans and Zionists, developed an even more obsessive form.
And once again Herbie takes a big patronizing racist dump on someone else’s heritage, culture and narrative. Herbie knows that everything in the world can actually be boiled down to what Europeans used to think before they got smart. And now Herbie can teach us all how to let go of our silly ideas in order to adopt his superior one.
Thank you Herbie.
A metaphorical dump is surely preferable to the quite literal dump you’ve been doing on the Palestinians for decades.
Wow, look at Herbie! first the champion for Ethiopian Jews and now for Palestinians. Such a superhero must surely have quite the comic perspective on reality.
I like to call it the big picture.
The Grand Chessboard.
And I have to tell you that your place in it is looking decidedly shakey, in a rapidly changing world.
There’s a price to be paid for abusing your neighbours.
I’m sure the Arabs have at least as long memories as yourselves.
That’s why you’d have been better developing a modern state than a tribal homeland.
At least then you’d have some defence to your actions, so long as carried proportionately.
Asiatic despotism wins no friends.
And, beware of groupthink.
You’ve been very poorly led, I’m afraid.
As poorly led as the pieds noirs of French Algeria. And look what happened to them.
Herbie, I’m an atheist and a humanist. I have many Palestinian friends and am a member of a number of joint initiatives for peace. You simply have no idea what you are talking about. You have jumped into a discussion about one of the most complex conflicts with someone whose family has lived here for centuries (yes centuries), whose great grandparents built this state and who is deeply involved in its politics and in building bridges with its neighbors. And yet Herbie, you are either too stupid or too arrogant to take the opportunity to ask questions rather than pontificate.
When you say that your great grandparents built the state, what do you mean exactly.
Wasn’t the state built on ethnic cleansing, slaughter and terrorism.
As a humanist and peaceseeker how do you view the events that created your state?
Sure Herbie, go educate yourself on the history of Jews in Palestine and who massacred who and who occupied who. Here’s just a small taste.
The old Jewish cemetery in Hebron, is located to the west of the Tomb of Patriachs on a hill and has been used as a Jewish cemetery for hundreds of years, as attested to by Ishtori Haparchi, who noted a Jewish cemetery in the area in 1322. Other sources indicate the cemetery being mentioned in a letter dated to 1290
The 1517 Hebron attacks targeted the Jewish population of the city.
The 1929 Hebron massacre targeted the Jewish population of the city.
During the Jordanian period (1948-1967), the cemetery was intentionally destroyed and the site was cultivated by Arab residents for growing produce.
You see fool, this conflict dates to long before Israel, Western nationalism, roadblocks or settlements.
The fact that you only read up on a partial version of history doesn’t mean the rest doesnt exit. I’m done with you fool.
I’m interested in the modern state of Israel. That’s all that concerns us here. It’s because you now have a state that you’re held to higher standards than might be applied to a tribal grouping.
You seem to have some difficulty grasping this point.
Let’s try again.
Your great grandparents, who built this state.
You’re quite proud of that.
The Israeli state was built on ethnic cleansing, slaughter and terrorism.
Are you saying that’s untrue.
As a humanist and peaceseeker how do you view the events that created your state?
These events you’re so proud your great grandparents were involved in.
You see, all this tribal identity and mists of time stuff you come out with is worrying. It reminds me of European fascism.
Doesn’t quite fit so well with the conception of a modern state.
Why the surprise? Sky News is part of the Zionist cabal (as George Galloway has also had the dubious honour to discover!)
Israel, you are an apologist anti Semite, you are not helping your case by siding with Zionists who are as evil as those who who have done harm to Jews in the past, but there is hope, please read the far too generous Balfour declaration every day, just to remind you why Judaism has rejected Zionism and why many of your fellow tribesmen also shun the fascist hardliner’s who have no [peaceful vision for the children of Israel, who foster violence against children and fellow Israeli citizens, who run an Apartheid state.
But there is hope, tear down that wall, repent your past and sit down and negotiate a peaceful solution for both people.
Its only when the Zionists came to power that Palestine went the wrong way, those Haganah third Reich excusers who nearly did a deal with AH have ruined the future prospects of your country. You will never be at peace because you feel yourself to be a superior people to others. Now where did we hear that before.
Nevermind, you say “you [Jews] feel yourself superior to others”? do you mean that in the same way that some people think that black people just can’t help themselves from committing crime? or is it in the same way that some people claim that gay people are perverts with dirty thoughts about children?
Hmmm…Nevermind, you’re just another little closet racist aren’t you…
Mr. Murray, i hope your taking note of the kind of people following your blog…
” Mr. Murray, i hope your taking note of the kind of people following your blog…”
Nice to see someone engaging in the point at hand, definitely not trying to bully and intimidate others into silence, and Lord forbid you’d want to call authority down on someone else with whom you are having a disagreement.
Naturally, you would never use transfer devices, accusations of racism, nor slurs to undermine your correspondent. No, you deal with the issues. Very good to see.
Glenn, I do not feel in disagreement, I feel like I am in an environment where people are negating my very heritage and identity. The fact that you think that this constitutes a legitimate discourse is perhaps the root cause of the problem. If we were discussing whether blacks have a specific tendency toward crime (such claims have been made based on their high numbers in prisons), would you expect a black person to be calm in responding???
I am happy to discuss the complex situation in the Israel/Palestine – not to have people throw around claims that my country is racist or colonialist based on their own ignorance.
Please see further above, at the top of the page, where I hopefully make my personal position more clear.
We are not specifically discussing Jews when it comes to Israeli foreign policy, no more than we would be discussing the characteristics inherent to white caucasians when it comes to American foreign policy. We could look to the experience and identity of a group, of course, without resorting to unkind conclusions based on their racial makeup.
If race could be left out of the discussion when it comes to the Israeli/ Palestinian problem, I imagine solutions could at least be contemplated.
Maybe Nevermind won’t bother responding to your unsupported smear, but I will, and I hope he will forgive me. Nevermind has as much direct experience of the horror of the holocaust as you probably have, and more. He’s no racist. Back off, please.
Now, to an Israeli Jew, which is what I assume you to be, based on your posts, a simple question. Is criticism of Israel’s policies re. the Occupied Territories and their Palestinian population, antisemitic? Yes or no, please.
BZ, I don’t think I mentioned the holocaust and don’t see how the holocaust has anything to do with this discussion.
Yes I’m Israeli and Jewish and in answer to your question, no, criticism of Israel’s policies is not antisemitic.
That said, singling out Israel and calling Israel racist, colonialist, apartheid, genocidal, is antisemitic.
The Arab-Israeli conflict is one of the least deadliest conflicts in the world (less than 100,000 Arabs killed in the past 100 years of conflict – this number includes casualties of 3 full scale wars against armies of neighboring countries).
Furthermore, Arabs living in Israel have more rights than most of the Arabs living in the rest of the Middle East.
So while Israel is far from perfect, it certainly does not deserve the volume and level of bad press it receives. That is what i would put down to antisemitism.
So criticism of Israel’s policies isn’t antisemitic, but we are required to criticise other peoples’ policies, presumably in the same breath, to qualify as non-antisemites? OK. Israel’s contemptuous treatment of its non-Jewish population is a festering sore on Western – ME relations and N. Korea sucks too. Have we established the (Israeli) rules of debate yet?
Wait, so Erdogan governing all Turks worldwide is also not OK?
It’s not just not OK.
It’s demented. Insane. Arrogant. Egotistical.
And probably indicative of a pschopathic disorder.
Why would secularist diaspora Turks want to be ruled by Erdogan.
Why would religious diaspora Turks who follow Gulen want to be ruled by Erdogan.
As insane as Netanyahu wanting to rule diaspora Jews.
He doesn’t.
He won’t.
End of.
It’s just that occasionally I wonder why you guys spend ten times as much time talking about Israel than about Erdogan, despite his significant issues with (press) freedom and oppression of the Kurds.
You need to get out more.
That’s another one you’ve just made up.
I made up Erdogan?
Come to think of it.
Erdogan and Netanyahu are quite close.
Keen on dividing up Syria between themselves.
Though that’s now come unstuck.
A sense of proportion has never been among their strong points
Yes, I agree with Craig. There is obviously an irrational witch-hunt in progress, where anyone who dares to criticise Israel or its policies towards the Palestinians is denounced as, ‘anti-Semitic’ and is forced to resign from whatever public office they might hold. Why exactly might this be happening – more than usual – right now, do you think? Is this an attempt to attack the Corbyn-led Labour Party at a time when the Conservative Party is deeply divided over the EU, and while Government ministers are busy attacking one another? There definitely seems to be an agenda which is being promoted by the coprophagic corporate media. This is not to deny that anti-Semitism exists or might be an issue among some people – as people know, I have stated specific manifestations of this on this blog. But this business of hounding people for what they say, for views they hold, and instead of confronting those views and arguing with them, insisting that they resign seems to be to be part of the hysteria which led, in part, to demonisation of, say, Liverpool and Liverpool football fans – and 27 years later, we see the result. Same thing with ‘migrants’. Same thing with ‘Muslims’.
It stinks.