The petition to sack Tory propagandist Laura Kuenssberg from her role as BBC Political Editor has been scrapped by 38 Degrees after it gained over 35,000 signatures. The reason given is sexist comments and tweets.
Having both signed and endorsed the petition myself, I was taken aback by this. I had personally read through every single one of the comments on the 38 Degrees site, when 26,000 people had signed the petition. I was intending to publish a selection of comments on this blog, as many of them were really quite elegant, and some moving in expressing the loss some people felt in their disillusion with the BBC.
Of the many scores, possibly hundreds (there is no counter) of comments I read through, only one was sexist. That one was very unpleasant, but totally unrepresentative. I can see no reason why they could not just delete any such stupid comments. Everywhere on the internet gets them, including this blog.
It seems to me astonishing that a tiny and unrepresentative number of people can get a petition scrapped which had been signed by many thousands of genuine people. I therefore today phoned 38 Degrees to uncover both the policy and the sequence of events.
What happened first was an article in the Guardian alleging the petition was linked to sexist abuse. Needless to say, the Guardian referred to alleged sexist abuse, by Jeremy Corbyn supporters, of Stella Creasy and Jess Phillips (in the case of Stella Creasy this was proven to be almost complete fabrication. I have not looked into the Phillips case). I have both phoned and emailed the Guardian to ask them on what evidence their story of sexist abuse of Kuenssberg was based, but they have not responded.
I asked the 38 Degrees spokesman whether they had personally seen the evidence of this sexist abuse. Their spokesman Adam said that they had seen it. I asked whether they would send me the evidence so I could check it. He said they would consider this. They have not done so. I asked him how many sexist comments there were? 2, 3, 10, 100? He said they had not looked through everything and would not give even a ballpark figure. I asked what impact their junking of the petition would have on the tens of thousands of non sexist people who had signed it, and why they felt able to slander those people as sexist. He replied this was not intended and they were still thinking about it. I asked why people opposed to a petition could not get anything taken down by adding a few nasty comments pretending to support. He said this had occurred to them as a problem too.
38 Degrees said that the petition originator had agreed to it being taken down, but I clarified they had contacted him to ask for his agreement. Whether he was shown the “evidence” or browbeaten I do not know.
So there we are. The petition has been binned and the people who supported it have all been libelled in the media as sexists. It is not apparently concern about a rampantly biased political editor, it is obvious sexism. Yet the only people who claim to have the actual evidence of this sexism – 38 Degrees and the Guardian – have not produced the evidence and refuse to produce the evidence when I ask.
Laura Kuenssberg is I think the most openly biased journalist I have ever seen on the BBC, particularly in her very obvious vindictive hatred of Jeremy Corbyn and of Scottish Independence. She does not in the least pretend impartiality. But she is by no means alone. Of course by targeting her we are only drawing attention to a particularly egregious symptom of the terrible disease of a rampantly right wing corporate and state media. Nobody believes that removing her would solve the problem. Nobody seriously believes the BBC actually would remove her even if the petition reached a million. It is purely a campaigning tool to highlight the injustice of media control, access and bias.
The fact we are denied even this tool of protest is deeply troubling. The continued process of stigmatisation of decent dissidents as “anti-Semitic” or “misogynist” is characteristic of a society in which deviating from the political line is rewarded with social stigma and exclusion. This poisonous climate should be seen as a reaction to the challenge the elite is currently facing to its neo-liberal certainties.
never trusted 38degrees since i signed one of their petitions about honouring the vow, when it reach 100,000 gordon brown then claimed responsability for it
i unsubscribed immediately
mysterious organisation
Can it no be done on the gov.uk site asking the govt to look at the impartiality of the BBC as the Charter Is to be renewed soon,just a thought.
Don’t think I’ll be signing any more 38 degrees petitions.
ditto
Me neither.
Personally I think that whether I agree with what they say or not and if I consider what they say biassed or not, petitions to get a journalist sacked are an attack on the freedom of the press and the freedom of the press, all press as who’s side they are on, is something too important to be undermined.
As the NUJ said in their statement:
“This was a legitimate story any journalist would have wanted to run on their show.
You cannot run witch hunts against journalists just because you don’t like the news they report.’In the same way we supported journalists – at the BBC and elsewhere – who were attacked on social media by people from both sides of the argument on independence during the Scottish referendum, we will not tolerate people who try to suppress legitimate news coverage.”
Anon1,
It’s staggering that you neither understand, nor wish to understand the actual issues at stake, so let me clear it up for you.
The BBC is not a bloody PR/Marketing arm of the Conservative Party, it is funded by the UK taxpayer indirectly by the TV Licence and has a Charter, renewed every 10 years guaranteeing its political impartiality. Now, why should my elderly parents fund propaganda from Conservatives masquerading as news and reportage – if the Tories want a propaganda arm then bloody well fund it themselves, and don’t force others to pay for their own PR.
Further, and as with Channel Four, the fact remains the Conservatives are intent on privatising the BBC, hence by undermining its credibility they further the privatisation cause as many viewers and listeners begin turning off their news output because its crap. At least C4 news delivered by ITN makes an effort, the BBC now makes no effort, particularly after the Jimmy Savile balls up.
You say the BBC is a propaganda arm of the Tory party, but the Tories say it is a propaganda arm of the Labour party. The accusation most frequently levelled against the BBC is that it has a soft-left bias, confirmed by many of the BBC current and former employees. I have only ever read on this site that the BBC is “right-wing”, but this site is full of far-left nutters.
Sorry but the BBC has Beeb in the Tory camp for years, we used to have newspapers who were in one camp or another,now as they are owned by Murdoch and his cronies we don’t get that now. The media per se are right wing now.I don’t think this will change anytime soon. Vote with our feet is now our only alternative. I’m 66 now so can remember.
Anon
Of course it’s possible to be both poacher and gamekeeper, or to be laying copper cables for the highway agency and pulling them out again for scrap. In fact it is much more likely that you work in some low-level capacity for the police if you have some form.
Empty 1 might be a better tag for your silly contributions.
Chris, you’re absolutely right, but “Anon 1” is not a real person. Don’t get wound up!
Anon, the Western MSM is so biased to the Right, and has been for so long, that all polls of public opinion put journalists somewhere between paedophiles and real estate agents in public esteem. Deservedly so, I would say. But that partisanship, plainly, suits your ideological bias.
It’s not the news- it’s the bias. Don’t you understand the difference
Regrettably, the BBC is not part of the MSM as its state funded and has a Charter that is mean’t to ensure impartiality in its reportage – if you fail to understand that moot point, and the Charter, you actually have a comprehension issue. Not being snide, but impartiality means being impartial and its what we pay a annual fee to the BBC for – it’s not bloody Fox News.
I see the BBC as rather middle of the road myself.
I expect it looks biassed to those in the gutter.
Anyone who buys into its news output would, however, those actually exposed to news propaganda in dictatorships are fully aware what impartial and propaganda are. No doubt you like the UK’s decent into a fascistic state and Orwell must be an anathema to you, despite his warnings focusing on Stalinism – I believe cynicism is the best way forward and treat most MSM output with a pinch of salt.
That’s fine, take it with a pinch of salt, everyone should and most do. Believe what you want to believe.
Getting journalists sacked because you don’t like what they say is something different. That is an attack of freedom of the press.
What a charming oaf you are, fred. So typical of your type.
But this is clearly in breach of the BBC’s charter. No argument.
As much as they can, they have to remain impartial. Not only is it deeply unprofessional, it is an insult to everyone who pays the not inconsiderable license fee.
Impartiality is all as far as fair reporting goes. We see very little of that nowadays.
Long live Peter Snow
This is a propagandist in question, NOT a journalist.
Fred, do you think the press should be free to lie?
Agree entirely. There is something unpleasantky Stalinist about such demands.
Don’t agree.
Having looked at some of Kuenssberg’s work it does not ring true and to me stinks of a premeditated hatchet job.
The BBC is publicly funded and should be more even handed. If you value the position of journalists you should also value the right of people to get up a petition.
You ought to do some research into that word Hab, you’ll soon see you’re the only one round here that aspires to a Stalinist state.
I hadn’t looked at the 38 Degrees site before but the petitions are a hoot. Virtually all of them begin with the word “Ban” or “Sack” and it appears to be populated almost entirely by the permanently outraged and offended (ie, the left).
One that caught my eye was “Stop Sainsbury’s Selling Carcinogenic Weedkiller Roundup”. The clueless petitioner is clearly not aware that virtually all the plant matter he/she can consume has been sprayed with Roundup (or cheaper equivalent) prior to harvest. Yet the petitioner wants to ban the bottle of Roundup for use on the patio.
Another calls for council bans on the use of pesticides. If features a picture of a man spraying herbicide along the edge of a path.
These are the first two petitions I clicked on, so not impressed so far.
So, while you’re clicking away on your computer, Britain is involved in wars in Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Yemen; all of which involve butchering large numbers of civilians, and it’s all being done without proper parliamentary approval.
Where’s the shame? or do you just enjoy killing dusky-skinned people?
Wha????
Sanctimonious much?
I think you’ll find that a herbicide is a pesticide.
I guess you are against the EU attempts to ban Roundup for agricultural use too then.
No it isn’t, and no i didn’t say that. I am marvelling at the idiocy of banning bottles of Roundup for killing driveway weeds when virtually all the corn, wheat, rape etc derived products available for actual human *consumption* have been killed off for harvest using Roundup or equivalent.
No they haven’t, you don’t kill crops to harvest them.
I was enjoying his little rant. He thinks crops are like sheep and have to be slaughtered for eating.
Well done, fred. You’ve revealed your ignorance, wonderfully. Crops are, in fact, sprayed with glyphosate to dessicate them before harvest, an insane and Evil practise, but profitable.
Actually, they are mate. Roundup is used on virtually 99% of harvested crops in the week before harvest. It partially desiccates the crop while helping less mature plants grow in the final week. It’s use in this way is standard practice in agriculture to maximize crop yield. And yes, there are major question marks hanging over it’s safety.
The EU are now looking at the use of pesticides in conjunction to farming,as they are killing all the bugs that are good as well as bad, and also wildlife,and getting into our food ,these pesticides are carcinogenic,
not to be used lightly.keep your pets away from them it says,have you ever wondered why? They are highly poisonous to living things,they don’t differentiate between species.
It’s funny you should mention that:
http://truepublica.org.uk/eu/eu-completely-pocket-biotech-industry/
How charming your type are, Anon. No problem with selling carcinogens, just so long as someone profits from it.
Anyone can start a campaign. At the moment the Roundup one has 33 signatures and some monomaniac has created dozens of Ban Pesticides ones that have a handful of votes each.
The Protect Our BBC one has 546,000. The one for banning Bee killing neonicotinoids has 274,000. The Tories clearly hate 38 Degrees judging from the number of times they denigrate the organisation.
The petitions that are advertised by email are all reasonably sensible and well-informed.
‘…by the permanently outraged and offended (ie, the left).’
Commented on by the permanently outraged and offended (ie, the soft right who employ the same delusion of representing a ‘silent majority/man on the street/nominally centrist’ view that Mary Whitehouse perfected) who are permanently outraged and offended at the permanently outraged and offended left). Except they are exempt somehow.
And this one won’t work, either.
In political economic terms out media is owned by rich people with a far right agenda designed at them taking ever increasing amounts of money out of the economy and using it ever more to gain power and pervert democracy. The only actual quantitative evidence, from Aberystwyth University showed the BBC had a clear right wing bias. Kuenessberg is one of many blatantly biased BBC Tory shills, like Andrew Neil, Nick Robinson, Evan Davies etc, who have been complained about, and there is always a reason why the BBC can ignore any complaint; as they ignore the quantitative evidence. This time round they have had 35,000 people complain in no time, they will of course now ignore it, because the people complaining must all be just sexist or something (even the feminists who complained).
There *was* a suspiciously sudden upsurge of extreme misogynistic social media attacks on Kuenssberg over the few days leading up to the petition being withdrawn. I was involved in two conversations on left-leaning Facebook groups calling for offensive memes to be removed. I can’t speak for the 38 degrees petition as, although I had signed it, I didn’t read the comments. I have no reason to suspect bias by 38 degrees though – what seems more likely to me is that the misogynistic attacks were, at very least, “seeded” by trolls as part of a deliberate attempt to discredit the campaign against Kuenssberg – it all happened so quickly and bears too striking a similarity to the Labour antisemitism slur campaign.
My thoughts entirely Steve, it all seemed a little too coincidental. Reminds me of the antics used to discredit a left wing leader in the novel by Chris Mullins, A Very British Coup.
It is either the digital black block (run jointly by CCHQ and the Met) or possibly freinds of Jess Phillips and Stella Creasy adding sexist comments with the explicit aim of smearing the organisers. Or of couree, the operatives of the ‘chosen people’.
It’s the oldest trick in the book and has been used since forever to denigrate and smear protests in the real world, no reason we shouldn’t expect in the virtual one.
Yep, it’s a sad old world, a person trying to highlight ‘real’ political bias by the BBC’s Political Editor, a project worked in since the begging of the year, sees some real hope when his largely ignored Petition picks up traction and speed because of Social Media. He’s then exposed to all the mud raking that takes place daily in the sewer known as London – the chap being from up North.
All of a sudden, fears are aroused in London media circuits and the Social Justice Warriors, worried one of their own is being outed for the fraud they are, move into overdrive to snuff out the object of their hate.
I do pity the young man who’s had his bubble popped by the buggers who utilise any tool to disarm dissent – perhaps he should have spoken to a few of the organisers of the Occupy Movement, at least he’s have been better prepared.
Now, he’s even been forced to remove a personal post on his FaceBook home page about this matter, which at least I’ve captured, and yet even I’m guilty of invaded his privacy and space. Regrettably, their ain’t such a thing as privacy on Social Media, its power being its hercules heal, as Naz Shah found out.
A disturbing outcome to a valid cause, his only sin trying to highlight extreme media bias – which of course we are not supposed to recognise, as propaganda only works if the recipients actually don’t think its propaganda, which at least our youth has now cottoned on to both sides of the Atlantic.
Chris, your defence is eloquent, but I supposed they bred them tougher up North. The surrender to a blatant smear campaign, and the disappearing of 35.000 other people’s support (who gave him permission to nullify all those opinions?)still smells to my nostrils.
Remember all hate emails ,facebook comments and tweets sent by Labour supporters to pro-Syrian war Labour MPs last year? What happened? Did the MPs ever prove any of the hate mail was from Labour supporters? Not one did. The story just went away the day after the vote.
Why not try running the petition elsewhere? Perhaps on Sum of Us?… Certainly a bad day for 38 Degrees.
Move the whole thing over to one of the other petition websites. Or start one on 38 Degrees asking them to reinstate it.
Spot on Craig. The culture wars imported from the US. Identity politics are being used to close down debate.
Yes, paul. When did ‘feminists’ suddenly all become Rightwing Thought Controllers.
Is there anyway of setting up a new petition, where no comments are allowed?
Thhe BBC has become a mouth piece for the estsblishment, as you point out anyone who challenges them is ridiculed, There has always been a bias, over the years it has become worse, there are many examples which is eithet to ignore events of protest or injustice or to give an establishment view. There are manu examples, in the 1970’s all reporting on industrial relations and our yrade unions, the bias shown toward the right- wing of the Labour Party, the miners strike, hillsboroug. The blurring of the factts when reporting, such as the current refugee crisis, calling them all migrants, any criticism of Israel is now being presented as anti-semitism. Its just about individual reporters its a cultural shift within the BBC.
Just what can decent folk do? Any excuse to do down the man in the street and nurture the establishment. And don’t dare criticise because you’ll either be sexist, racist or socialist.
start another petition …… she not fit for purpose….
Title of Guardian hit piece is ‘Campaign to sack BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg accused of sexism’, so the problem is not presented as intrusive sexist postings but as the campaign as a whole. Who is doing the accusing?
It’s propaganda.
Id be surprised if there wasn’t more than one sexist comment on a petition like this but the obvious solution is to moderate comments. And though one can’t control tweets, a string abti-sexist statement would do much more good.
Amanda, why should a handful of, possibly bogus, misogynist comments be allowed to nullify the opinions of 35,000 people, many, no doubt, female and feminist?
It’s interesting that Blairites and their friends in the media (the establishment) can be so worried about a petition signed by just 35,000 plebs that they have to accuse those who signed of sexism to have it taken down.
I expect if there is a revolution they’ll say the revolutionaries aren’t legitimate because not enough LGBT people are leading it.
38 degrees are careerist “protesters” with no integrity or ideas of their own. Glad you’ve noticed! They maintain the status quo, it pays their wages.
Vote with your wallet – pack your TV away, stop watching or recording ‘live TV as it is broadcast” and STOP paying your Westminster Propaganda Charge (or TV license tax).
The glory days of TISWAS, TOTP and The Double Deckers are long gone so let us deny them oxygen of liquidity (?) and quit paying the wages of Andrew Neill et al!
And stuff 38 Degrees too.
Vote with your wallet – pack your TV away, stop watching or recording ‘live TV as it is broadcast” and STOP paying your Westminster Propaganda Charge (or TV license tax).
The glory days of TISWAS, TOTP and The Double Deckers are long gone so let us deny them oxygen of liquidity (?) and quit paying the wages of Andrew Neill et al!
And stuff 38 Degrees too.
I did that years ago and constantly tell other to but religion is no longer the opiate of the people it is day time TV
It is indeed extremely disappointing to have had this petition sullied and removed . It seems that we are increasingly unable to respond and complain even politely and that is deeply worrying. Thank you for your excellent analysis .
This is a worrying development which, because it has had the desired impact of removing a legitimate petition even though it could only serve to highlight bias and little more. Because of the twin accusations of ‘antisemitism’ and ‘misogyny’ the petition has become too hot to handle. We cannot have slurs of this kind shutting down petitions and debate. Inappropriate comments have always been taken down across many platforms. In my opinion, it is highly dangerous to kowtow to those seeking to distort debate and we need to differentiate between genuine concerns being expressed and labelled as something they clearly are not. Hatred is easily recognised for what it is and should be dealt with. Justifiable criticism is vital in a functioning democracy.
How did you contact 38 degrees? I can never get hold of them, and they do not reply to emails.
https://www.change.org/p/james-harding-director-of-news-and-current-affairs-we-ask-that-the-bbc-review-the-current-political-editor-laura-kuenssberg-s-position
Laura Kuenssberg is indeed an establishment propagandist who selects and shapes her discourse to trash Corbyn and the left in her BBC reporting. I nevertheless feel that better than calling for her sacking would be the demand that pro-independence and left-wing journalists be given equal air-time. I doubt whether “neutral news” actually exists.
38 degrees is naive and weak rather than ill meaning. Clearly, they were intimidated by the anti-Corbyn Guardian claiming that some (and exactly how much, we don’t know) of the comments contained sexist abuse.
I’d agree with that if it were not so difficult to implement in practice. The BBC has long, and often spuriously, claimed its committment to ‘balance’; perhaps it would go some way towards holding it to that if an agreed definition of balance could be obtained in the first place. Including right-of -reply, with equal time, on any point made by any politician. Including the insistence that a politician, asked a direct question, answers it without launching into a timewasting party political ramble. Should a minister, as is increasingly the case, be unavailable for comment, he should be spared the oxygen of publicity come election time. And I think a quota system for hostile interjections by interviewers should be applied. They might be allowed one infuriated quibble per interview, regardless of the subject, and no more, perhaps. USW.
Meanwhile, don’t buy the license, and stop eating the soma.
If it reached 35000 signatures it belongs to the people who signed not 38 degrees. I will not sign another petition until they reconsider.
With regard to this kind of censoring. Cox and Coyle. After the TV appearance of Ms Cox MP and the later article in the Guardian of a joint piece by them attacking Corbyn an email was sent out from her office with “why I knifed Jeremy Corbyn”. This caused a lot of response on Ms Cox facebook page. Someone in her office claimed they had sent it and a number of conflicting post ensued. It was his attempt at humour and sarcasm, it had been sent out in error, it had been sent out accidentally etc etc etc. The usual and expected damage limitation.
However a few days later an article appeared in the local paper the Huddersfield Examiner titled “Kirklees MP Jo Cox apologises after aide claims she “knifed” Corbyn”
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/kirklees-mp-jo-cox-apologises-11305865
Here is a quote from the article “In an apology sent to members, Mr Howard, said he was “mortified” by his mistake which had “offended many members and caused Jo an enormous amount of abuse”.
This is damage limitation from beginning to end. People knew about her TV appearance and her Guardian article by late afternoon Friday 6th May and were unhappy. People began posting on her Facebook page and on twitter and emailing her their views. Batley and Spen overwhelmingly backed Corbyn in the leadership vote. The email “why I knifed Corbyn” was sent out very soon after and had the effect of deflecting attention from her TV appearance and guardian article, for a time.
The vast majority of posts were angry and some were heated (anyone who wishes to go read them can her Facebook page “Jo Cox for Batley and Spen” is open for anyone to read) but not abusive.
The use of the words “enormous amount of abuse” in the Huddersfield Examiner article cleverly changes the narrative. In four word she becomes victim instead of perpetrator and closes down the debate. No one is posting now.
Like a spoiled child in the playground who cannot get her own way with the other children she runs in shouting “not fair not fair picking on me picking on me”.
If you play at politicking you need to be good at it.
If you play at dirty politicking you need to be very good at it.
This is. actually, very disturbing. It means we no longer living in a democracy. Free speech, while it is not freedom to be abusive, must allow what is a perfectly reasonable criticism of the actions of someone working for an organisation that has the duty to be unbiased in its constitution. Perhaps it would have been better to petition the BBC requiring it to present a balanced selection of views?
We are being gagged in lots of ways – one prime example is the”Labour is antisemitic” controversy. Here we have people who don’t want to have a real democratic debate preferring to win by mud slinging. I don’t it’s worked but it has caused a lot of distress to many people including me.
We need to face the fact that we have a group of people mostly but not exclusively in the Tory party, who believe they have the right to rule the rest of us. They are currently using all sorts of tactics including lies and forget statistics to achieve that aim.
If we do not fight them and win my grandchildren, currently aged 4 and 14 1/2 months will face a life not unlike that of my grandparents, gruelling hard work and hunger.
We cannot let this happen.
You didnt believe this country is democratic. We’ve had polls rigged,expenses cheating,election costs being looked at by police, etc etc. Long knives being sharpened as we speak. Let’s hope things will change,I’m ever hopeful.
what absolute nonsense, we all know which party fought long and hard for equal rights, to let a few trolls out of so many people ruin a genuine concern for our democracy is highly suspicious. Im signing no more of 38 degrees petitions and will make sure everyone i know doesnt. Maybe a new sexless petition against the bbc news as as whole will succeed ?