Scottish nationals have two supra-national citizenships. One is UK citizenship, the second is EU citizenship. In democratic referenda over the past two years, Scots have voted clearly to retain both citizenships.
Unfortunately it is not possible to respect both democratic decisions of the Scottish people, due to a vote by other nationalities. So where you have democratic decisions which cannot both be implemented, which does democracy demand should take precedence?
It is not a simple question. The vote to retain EU citizenship was more recent and carried a much larger majority than the earlier vote. In addition it was made crystal clear during the campaign that it may require the overturning of the earlier vote. So on these grounds I believe the most recent vote must, as an exercise in democracy, have precedence.
In these circumstances the announcement by the First Minister that she is initiating the procedure on a new referendum for Scottish independence from the UK, in order to retain Scottish membership of the EU, is a sensible step.
But I believe there is another step she should take. The democratic conflict of decisions brings about a conflict of interests between the institutions to which Scotland elects national representatives.
To resolve this requires a supplementing of current constitutional arrangements. The First Minister should therefore convene a National Convention consisting of all Scotland’s elected national representatives – its MEPs, MPs and MSPs united in a single democratic body merged on a one member one vote basis.
This body should draw up recommendations for the independence referendum, including on the future constitution, economy including currency, and international alliances of an independent Scotland, and should oversee negotiations with the EU. The next referendum could therefore present voters with a more definite prospectus for what the new Scotland will look like.
The world has changed radically. We must not be afraid to think outside the UK prescribed box in defining Scottish solutions.
Craig,
“The world has changed radically. We must not be afraid to think outside the UK prescribed box in defining Scottish solutions.”
I see the result this way:-
A. Scotland is for the EU.
B. Westminster/London is not for the EU.
C. Scotland has to do that which is in Scotland’s best interest and in accordance with Scotland’s democratic wishes.
To back up a bit….
I had a long conversation with a UK Professor of economics on the night of the Brexit vote. With his fully cooked academic brain and my half-baked brain, we considered the UK regions, the economics of the vote, the politics of the vote, the immigration and race aspects of the vote and on and on and then what the public opinion polls were saying. The conclusion drawn was that the temperament of the British people was more conservative and that they would therefore opt for a ‘remain vote’. We parted with that conclusion. Well – the morning after – we are both sober and were proven wrong!
The vote has very far reaching implications for the UK, the EU and US/EU/UK relations.
By leaving Europe there is an invitation to other EU populations to ask their national governments for a similar referendum. Over time, the results of these votes will have implications for relations with NATO. Not a bad thing to my mind – since I simply can’t approve of these Washington inspired wars – Iraq – Libya – Syria by proxy – and presumably endlessly on and on with Europe as the main theatre to launch the wars – then absorb the consequential migrants. The Europeans do have a right to act in their best interests.
The UK will have to sort out the fall-out currency implications in consequence of leaving. It seems to me that the City of London can continue to receive global bandit money and the Central Bank is free to print money to support the pound – the ECB has no say – and life goes on. For now the NHS, pensions, public assets and the kind of Greek economic scenario is not likely to hit Britain with a series of compelled privatisations. But – who knows what the future holds?
My personal special interest is the legal system. For all the sophisticated arguments employed – it has been clear to me that sovereignty had to be compromised to have the UK system work within the context of the EU. For my part, I am quite proud of having argued the locus classicus in the Turks and Caicos Islands for a Jamaican, against his deportation. I used a lot of EU law, since the European Convention on Human Rights ( ECHR)is applicable in the TCI. A 49 page Judgment was delivered in favour of my client. I now wonder, as I have a few more cases where I had planned to use the ECHR in argument – what now happens to applicability of the ECHR in the UK and, by extension, in the TCI post Brexit?
Please now – I am not the oracle – so – don’t look to me for all the answers.
To my astonishment and great surprise – the UK left – so – let’s see what happens next.
Your further views Craig?
I think you’re confused – london voted overwhelmingly in favour of remain – there’s even a petition going around to ask Sadiq Kahn that London secede from the UK, as you can see here,
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis
One has to wonder who to believe, when it comes to American politics, with Obama telling us in the UK that me must stay, and today potential POTUS Donald Trump telling us we’ve done the right thing by leaving.
“Presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, in Scotland for a two-day business trip, today praised United Kingdom voters for taking “their country back,” even though a majority of Scots indicated they wanted to remain part of the E.U.”
https://gma.yahoo.com/donald-trump-calls-uk-vote-leave-eu-purely-110740512–abc-news-topstories.html
It appears that a combination of sladering and scaring those inclined to EXIT was not successful.
Strange that – usually when I insult someone’s intelligence and call them a racist, with threats, they quickly warm to my point of view.
glenn_uk
Absolutely right. The Farage / UKIP gambit failed miserably.
Just have a look at the survey results compiled by Lord Ashcroft and you’ll see how apt the insults appeared to be and why they might actually have been accepted as markers of distinction in some quarters.
You’re making my argument for me. What was the point in making that line of attack? They pissed off people who weren’t racist, and those that were wouldn’t care.
The world is changing rapidly right now with the extreme US/EU TTIP negotiations which an independent Scotland and remaining countries of the UK must oversee with urgency.
Leaked documents on these so called trade agreements show us they are, in reality, investor right agreements kept secret from the public which are highly protectionist of corporate power and intellectual property rights that have an enormous affect on world economies including our own. They are also the foundation of corporate global power and give the right to sue governments over harm to future profits; provisions that undermine regulation including environmental dangers.
These US corporate demands remain uncontested in the EU and smother any EU impact assessments, selfish to the extreme these stipulations are for the greater ‘good’ or clearly the enhancement of America terrorist subordinate world power.
We must prove that FORCE IS ON THE SIDE OF THE GOVERNED.
To exercise that force NOW we will be creating a more liberated and loving world for our children’s children and beyond.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/01/leaked-ttip-documents-cast-doubt-on-eu-us-trade-deal
Oh yeah, we’ve got the next four years to see what sort of lovely arrangements Johnson-Gove-Duncan-Smith-Grayling et al sort out for the poor benighted workers of the UK. The NHS is safe in their hands, surely? TTIP on steroids anyone?
TTIP on steroids?
http://gu.com/p/4ttj7?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Mark,
Consider what Alan Greenspan has to say – real wages are depressed and this has a knock-on political effect, which we see being played out:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN1jid9lLjY
What a mess. We’re left in a position where nearly half the population of the UK nations are facing having to exit the EU when they didn’t vote for it. Many people have built their lives around EU membership, only to have their dreams snatched away by a group of sinister politicians and their media backers. David Cameron’s speech about being proud to serve the country simply beggared belief. He should have walked out of Downing Street this morning and never returned for unleashing this disaster.
It’s clear the Westminster political and media elite aren’t going to act in the interests of people in this country, so the SNP are absolutely justified in seeking a new referendum on Scottish independence. I hope you go for it and get it.
“What a mess. We’re left in a position where nearly half the population of the UK nations are facing having to exit the EU when they didn’t vote for it”
Not half the mess it would be if over half the population of the UK had to face remaining in the EU when they didn’t vote for it. Democracy may be a mess but it’s a healthy sort of mess, all told.
With a bit of luck, Scotland will actually go this time.
Disappointed that too many voters bottled out last time round.
Yes, bye bye Scotland, hope things go well with the euro. I believe Edinburgh is called the Athens of the North.
The Fury of The REMAINER’s is quite astonishing. I guess, I must try and be Politically Correct down the Pub tonight. Unfortunately cos I more or less gave up hope years ago, and had very little to be proud of re being British, I don’t think I have got an appropriate British T-Shirt. Maybe I can improvise a Victoria Nuland Style FUCK THE EU. I do have a printer that works – but it doesn’t do T-Shirts.
Tony
Yes, I’m livid. I had the right to live and work in twenty-eight countries. Thanks to this propaganda-driven idiocy I’ve just lost twenty-seven of them. My cage has shrunk enormously. And my friends who came here from the mainland are in peril, and my friends from the UK who live and work on the mainland won’t be able to continue.
Idiocy and selfishness combined.
Clark,
Well I kind of agree with you, but This Decision is far more important Than That.
It has already had a massive effect on The Entire World
It is about DEMOCRACY Rather Than TYRANNICAL DICTATORSHIP…
and its not for Me – the decision won’t have the slightest effect on me, unless in the unlikely event – I am still alive and well to play Football with My Great Grandchildren…
I just do not understand your short term selfishness…
I am sure my mate will still be working and playing in Spain in 5 years time…
Stop taking The Drugs…You’re a Good Looking Lad.
Come on Cheer up – it won’t make the slightest bloody difference to you either..
Stop giving us a hard time because we voted LEAVE
Its almost as bad as admitting to being a 9/11 Truther..
I ain’t saying nowt.
Tony
If you have marketable skills, they’ll have you.
After all, you could work in the U.S.A. or Brazil if you wanted to. You just have to have a job to do and a work visa.
British rulers are so thick that at a time of heavy unemployment they allow the mass importation of people to drive fork-lifts and pick cabbages and then can’t understand why British workers don’t like it.
Are you planning on going to the continent to drive a fork-lift? Is that what your friends do?
“You surely do not believe that the Welsh rejected the EU because of their right wing bias.”
And that goes for the North too.
It is time to drop the nonsense that the “left” includes the odiferous Blairites and to kill the foul slander that the result reveals deep seated ‘racism.’
There are two nations in England and Wales: the rich and the poor. The rich benefited from the EU, though some were too dumb to realise it and others-credit where its due- too patriotic to care. The poor…well, look around you, once more the Commons are being plundered and handed over to the rich, by their friends and agents, the lawmakers.
In rough terms the poor voted for exit and the rich for the status quo. Very rough terms, of course, were a substantial minority of the poor not deluded by ideology, lack of self confidence and pessimism they would have followed the elders of their tribes and rejected the rapist’s embrace.
Now the entire EU project is thrown into question: the Irish, Dutch and French, all of whom have been told, in the past, that their votes don’t matter can now watch and see whether the English will put up with a similar insult. The Greeks and Portuguese now have an example to follow. So does the rest of the Union.
For Scotland to become independent would be a grand thing but what is on the cards is for it to swap rule from Westminster and Washington for rule by Washington and Brussels. Is it not?
As to the Convention- if one, on the lines Craig suggests, is held it will be very light on members, let alone representatives, of the working class. I don’t imagine that that bothers anyone in the Establishment much but it will certainly detract from the stability of any institutions emanating from the meeting and could- in conjunction with radical departures in the South- put an end to the interregnum of Tartan Toryism, Gaelic tigerishness, gombeen men and all.
Nothing is more mistaken in time of crisis than to imagine that the process can be stopped at will. Westminster, Brussels and Holyrood too are in deep crisis mode to day: the thin end of a wedge has been skilfully inserted. The normal default position of politicians in the age of communications (aka lies) is to hand the matter over to the PR and Propaganda types but their magic is no longer powerful: they did their best, (even to the obscenity of turning a family tragedy into a sordid carnival) and they lost. If they do it again they are likely to lose very badly indeed, against much broader, more credible opposition.
So what will they do?
Does anyone remember what Milton said about England setting an example for the world to follow?
I don’t, but here’s Pitt the Younger:
“England has saved herself by her exertions, and will, as I trust, save Europe by her example.”
Here it is, its not as good as I remembered it:
“‘Let not England forget her precedence of teaching nations how to live.”
“In rough terms the poor voted for exit and the rich for the status quo” – I guess so but with odds of 11/3 on a binary outcome some of the poor voted for exit and ended up richer than before.
If you can’t beat them join them – or in this case leave them,
Bevin
I wonder if the outcome of the vote in Wales is not at least partially linked to the poor deal the Common Agricultural Policy offers to hill farmers and farmers in rurally disadvantaged areas (as opposed to the excellent deal it offers to arable farmers with a few hundred or thousand hectares at their disposal.
The consequences for its particular agricultural sector was a major reason why the Swiss have consistently refused to entertain EU membership. The same goes for Norway (plus, of course, fishing).
It doesn’t seem to have hit the vote in rural Scotland, where the proportion of smaller farmers to total population may even be higher. Remain in Wales seems to have done best in tourist areas, which is unsurprising – elsewhere the trend is that of the less-economically-favoured parts of England (including those with large farms and estates. Norfolk, for instance, voted Leave, while relatively prosperous Norwich voted Remain)
Sovereign states are, well, sovereign. Including when in the EU.
Scotland on the other hand, is not sovereign, and at the mercy of what the poor and ignorant have voted for. In a year or two, the BJs and Goves will turn the screw on the downtrodden. Police state / fascism, anyone?
Scots should get out now!
If the Scots do have the balls to vote for Independence (which, based on the last showing, I don’t think they do), then they will be clamouring to join up with the EU, just as it falls apart. Wouldn’t that be priceless.
The Scots did vote for independence unlike the white settlers amongst us.
“If the Scots do have the balls to vote for Independence (which, based on the last showing, I don’t think they do), then they will be clamouring to join up with the EU, just as it falls apart. Wouldn’t that be priceless.”
Oh Anon1, do I find myself agreeing with you? Of course they will and won’t that be just so priceless, especially since they’re not about to listen to anybody. ROFL
I think you’ll find the word is “cocksure”.
As good a strategy as any for getting true independence, from both Westminster and Brussels.
John Ward’s Slog
https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/victory-but-we-won-the-first-battle-not-the-war/
Including this comment…which really cuts it..
“Wulfric
June 24, 2016 at 4:41 pm
Westminster needs delousing, to many parasites who have no interest in making the new reality work. The contents of Westminster were always beholden to the EU, career politicians galore, its the valhalla where Politicians go to die, very rich, for being ass hats.
To trust those who wanted us to stay with negotiations is ridiculous, Bozo doesnt cut it for me. Farage perhaps? At least he seems to in tune with how people feel and perhaps what they want? Everyone else, including the hilarious BBC last night seem to inhabit another planet, nay another dimension.”
Now how the hell do you de-louse it?
Here’s a thought: the Northern Irish Orangemen can stave off Irish Unity by joining with Scotland. They both remain in the EU, for as long as it lasts, and they just need to sell the idea to Sinn Fein.
The Nationalists of Northern Ireland, who are now a majority in four of the six counties, would never agree to that.
Did you notice how it was only in the other two counties (Antrim and Down) that Out won in Northern Ireland?
No I didn’t see that. They are the counties to join Scotland though.
Lysias
I think that Bevin’s thought was of a playful nature, but thank you for your helpful information.
Hey Craig, as a Northamptonshire person it is my pleasure to point out that all seven areas of Northamptonshire voted out, including Corby, where there are surely more Scots than in Scotland 🙂
http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/8203-live-northants-goes-to-the-polls-to-vote-remain-or-leave-in-eu-referendum/story-29435745-detail/story.html
Turnouts reached a record high in the county, with figures showing the biggest turnouts since general elections in the 90s in Wellingborough, Kettering, Corby and Daventry – hovering around the 80 per cent mark.
Have you an explanation for this? Why so Scots in Corby not vote the same as Scots in Scotland? Because they haven’t been spoiled rotten by the Scottish Parliament that the other Scot named Blair gave you.
“”For Germany, France remains its most important partner. Now that Britain is leaving, that partnership is even more important. Europe can only work if the German-French axis is halfway intact. Currently, it is not — because France has fallen behind economically and can no longer credibly claim to be on equal footing. Germany must now help France and show political and economic solidarity. Best would be a plan for an even tighter political and economic association, with financial and security policy being the priorities.””
see:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-presents-europe-with-opportunity-for-improvement-a-1099608.html
Not sure how that would go down with a number of the smaller Member States (and even some medium-sized ones), fwl.
You will know that any idea of a “directoire” – an idea which goes back all the way to de Gaulle (cf the well-known “Soames incident”) has provoked unfavorable reactions from many.
Oh do come on HabbaKook, De Gaulle is the best friend we ever had. He told people straight:
“He warned France’s five partners in the European Economic Community (EEC) that if they tried to impose British membership on France it would result in the break-up of the community.”
Was De Gaulle a prophet? LMAO
Alan
Actually, De Gaulle did not talk about break-up when he gave his famous 1963 press conference.
I have still to look at those French history books.
The French may think they can claim it – because they’ve been a bit arsey recently – blocking roads and refinerys and going on strike so we don’t have to fly over them…and pigshit dumped outside Government Offices…that kind of stuff…but They speak in French…and well – look at them…
They haven’t voted to Get out Of The EU.
Us British Have – So We are Number 1..
Can The Bookies please draw up a betting list for Number 2.. They are Right on The Ball
It’s a about Freedom of English speech init?
The Americans don’t qualify – but The Dutch Do – They speak better English than us.
Tony
The real French (not their elites) are just as pissed off with the EU as we are.
They will follow our lead, just as they followed our lead in ejecting the Monarchy in the late mediaeval.
What do you mean?…To my Amazement The Queen is On Our Side…
It’s The Queen who swung it for us.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/21/queen-asks-guests-to-give-her-3-reasons-why-britain-should-remai/
Tony
” The other European partners * should be invited to participate, but they should only be allowed to participate if they are able. That means, if they meet certain standards. This could be the beginning of a core Europe, made up of those who are both willing and able to pull their weight. The others, of course, can remain in the EU, but must make the effort to reform their institutions and economies. Those who aren’t able will fall behind. And this time, standards are standards. Cheating and forbearance of the kind seen with the euro zone accession criteria will not be tolerated.”
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-presents-europe-with-opportunity-for-improvement-a-1099608.html
* ie other than Germany & France
Yes, that is the old idea – well, fairly old – of a two-speed (aka an “inner/outer core” Europe). And idea promoted, perhaps in particular – by German politicians.
Again, not a very popular idea with many others.
Inter alia because of the difficulty of determining the relationship between the inner and outer cores (including institutional relationships) and – perhaps more importantly – the question of who would be inner and who outer.
Thanks, will look into. Interesting that this old idea has come back into German media so quickly today
At least all of Ireland can unite, with tears and hugs and put the long nightmare that has been Britnat rule behind them.
Scotland is on that same course, battling on, victory now assured, as the first colony to come under the heel of the London banking empire, and now the last as it unravels peacefully, joyously almost in the reverse order it was formed with gun and sword and gun, bloodshed and grief. But the good people of England too have been dragged along and in, unwittingly and unwillingly, to their detriment in a desperado project they’d little choice but to assent to.
The ineffectual backstabbing of Jeremy Corbyn, who truly isn’t a polished media performer, to his credit, puts under a microscope the near fatal infection of the Labour Party by the right still coalescing around Blair’s criminal coterie. The rage and the piss they’re venting is quite a treat to behold, they should have checked the wind, maybe, Mandelson leading the charge has already soiled himself. I think the fever has run its course, and England’s Labour Party, puts England’s people, not who knows what parasitic leeching bankers first.
And Sky’s Dermot Murnaghan deserves special mention for his early morning contemptuous interview/character assasination of Jeremy Corbyn. Career-changing, for Murnaghan, not for Corbyn.
In a constituency and in a country which voted strongly and comfortably to Remain as expected, I voted Leave, safely adding 1 to the leave total. And England/Wales will not be leaving the EU anytime soon, or long, possibly ever -that’s democracy UKOK style.
“At least all of Ireland can unite,”
You have got to be joking! My Grandfather was Irish and he spent all night kissing the Blarney Stone before moving to England and using his new found powers on my Grandmother. Now I always got on well with the Irish, but my daughter-in-law, born in Belfast, hates Republicans with a passion. And guess what, no “little Englanders” involved.
I don’t know what you’re on about. Scotland has just voted to remain a province of the E.U. It’s a great irony that the part of the country which has been banging on longest and hardest about ‘independence’ did that.
In my view, it’s now time for England and Wales to go it alone. We can’t be held back any longer.
BBC thinks it will HAVE to be run, because of 16/17 year olds being children and Glastonbury pseuds. Not to mention ex-pats.
The BBC Needs to Be Closed Down…it is completely Infested.
Whoops -HAVE to be re-run.
Meanwhile, in another blow to the Euro and American Atlanticists, the Czech Republic and Donbass People’s Republic open missions in eachother’s territories.
” A DPR office was opened in the Czech Republic – the protocol of intent on cooperation was signed on 24th June in Donetsk, said acting Minister of Foreign Affairs of the DPR Natalia Nikonorova at a press-conference.
“Recently, the Czech Republic opened a representative center of our Republic. Now we have our official office… we have just signed a protocol of intent. From this point we are already able to cooperate on a legal basis. This is a historic moment,” said Nikonorova, reports RIA Novosti.
Cooperation will be expressed on the possibility of attracting investment, cultural exchanges, and other areas. Working is ongoing on opening representative offices of the Czech Republic in the DPR, she concluded.”
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/06/dpr-office-opened-in-czech-republic.html
Earlier this month there was a massive NATO war games exercise right on Russia’s borders…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/nato-launches-biggest-war-game-in-eastern-europe-since-cold-war/
All the Russian military went on full alert, including their nuclear forces. The full alert was not just because of the NATO crap, but also because of the non-stop anti-Russian rhetoric that’s pumped out by the West.
This anti-Russian stuff comes from the batshit crazies in Washington, and it’s followed through by the vassal states in Europe; ie, the EU.
None of this is/was mentioned in the UK referendum debate (well, we all know that Britain is a poodle of America).
It’s like living in a nut house.
I know that Brexit gives Scotland another chance for independence (and good luck with it), but the Scots should be very careful about which psychos they get into bed with.
Talking of betting: the bookies must have made a fortune. The odds only made sense if masses of idiots had plonked big bets on “remain” in the certainty of a 25%-33% return.
As I said two days ago, Damon Runyan said never bet more than 6/4 against in a match. If I’d backed the Brexit side I might have made back the stake I lost predicting 100 seats for UKIP in the last election!
Why am I barred from voting on the future of the UK by limiting the vote to those UK citizens dwelling in Scotland or Nireland? Why are you bleating about the referendum result when EVERY voter in the UK had a say for once? 100% of the English electorate was barred from the Sindependence referendum and the various votes in Nireland, you didn’t complain about that.
Because everything’s about Fucking Scotland. Did you see Gnasher strutting around after the result acting as if the whole thing was about her? I can’t wait for them to leave.
Of course they didn’t. They have a sense of entitlement, you know? The EU owes them a living. It’s some kind of Scottish disease.
Ladies & Gentlemen,
I think for some of The REMAINERS, the Decision to Leave The EU is quite scary. They are the kind of people – who all throughout their lives needed a Mummy close by to take advice from and give a bit of Maternal Love – Like the Lovely EU – particularly if You Are In The Club. They have Never actually cut the strings from Mummy stood on their own Two Feet..They are Frightened…particularly after coming out with all this racist abuse.
However, I am astonished at their reaction – Hounding Boris at his own home – that is Completely Out of Order – and it wasn’t the press – it was the Brairite Fascists – How Left Wing You?? I mean Boris is a Clown – but he’s on Your Bloody Side..He ain’t on ours – just another Infiltrator
but O.K. – these things happen…
But my wife went to Yoga as normal – and her friend asked her what she thought of the result..She smiled and said she was delighted…
Her Friend just then went Completely Ballistic in a Yoga Class. That is NOT The thing you do.. Its like in the middle of a Roman Catholic Mass you just get up on the altar and start having sex. It is not appreciated.
You Accept Defeat Gracefully – Or we will xxxxxxx xxxxx xxx
Its called Democracy VS Revolution…
Let the French and The Americans have their Revolutions.
This is England. We do things gracefully and politely.
Revolution makes a mess on the LED lamposts. It really ain’t worth the bother.
and you must be braindead if you’ve never heard The Who Song. You should try The Guess Who as well – that is even stronger – but The Americans are so thick they made it Number 1.
Tony
Surely, Tony, you mean this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl4GWOkvDeM
Alan, Yeh Thanks – Brilliant. I seriously enjoyed that…I had it on full blast. The lyrics now have new meaning with a British element rather than just Canadian..I wonder if we can get a Young British Band to do it.
The BBC might ban it – which will ensure it goes straight To Number 1.
Tony
So let me see. The Nationalists in Scotland want another referendum because people in Britain are nationalist.
If we aren’t careful Westminster will take a huge step to the right, Scotland should be working how to prevent that not on how to jump ship.
Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she was “absolutely determined” to keep Scotland in the EU so a second Scottish independence referendum was now “highly likely”.
Is the bitch so determined that she will use any means at her disposal,
including destroying democracy?
I challenge Nicola,
call one for this year.
You will loose you bitch and you will be history like Cameron, Brown and Blair.
And the ubiquitous Alistair Cambell!
“So let me see. The Nationalists in Scotland want another referendum because people in Britain are nationalist.”
You mean the Scots, like the Yanks, have got themselves a sense of entitlement and think the world owes them a living?
Let’s face it, JFK told the Yanks, “Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country” and they shot him. Now we have Craig crying about what Scotland is owed. Oh my tears fell like rain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C-jXJl0Zrg
‘Europe will fall very soon’:
Now even MEPs say the hated EU will CRUMBLE within five years after shock Brexit result
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3656634/Europe-fall-soon-MEPs-say-EU-CRUMBLE-five-years-shock-Brexit-result.html#ixzz4CWdex4yN
‘Europe will fall very soon’:
We even know a song about that, unlike the Scots, who will be shedding tears of self-pity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clCYmvmpIsA
Lagarde had previously condemned the Leave campaign,
warning that leaving the EU would result in economic catastrophe.
Now she eats her words.
So, if everyone wants us to be in the front of the Queue
wot were all the ludicrous threats for,
surely they were not trying to derail democracy?
Here is Thomas Clark on the subject. He says that Scotland voted 62% to 38% for Remain. If his figures are right, that is a disconcertingly decisive statistic, and if the Scottish regard themselves as a distinctive national grouping, it is not surprising that there are further calls for independence.
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-case-for-second-scottish.html
I do not myself think this is a racist vote or a perverse result. I believe this is a fuck-the-Establishment vote. I think people are fed up with shiny suits in London telling them what to do. Here’s Johnny Void on the same theme: typically both outraged and optimistic.
https://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2016/06/24/the-future-is-there-for-the-taking-now-is-the-time-to-wage-class-war-against-the-rich/
I also wonder if the tragic killing of Jo Cox, in the end, because of the way it was handled, had the effect of swinging people back to Brexit. We mustn’t forget that someone actually did get killed over this issue, and whether you think Jo Cox was a wicked person or not, that doesn’t help her orphaned children.
By the way, if there were a new Scottish independence referendum tomorrow I think it would easily be a majority to exit the United Kingdom.
You REMAINERS are not nice people. You really have upset my wife – to the extent that she really does not want to go out tonight – and there is an Excellent band on…and its not just what happened to her in Real Life this morning at Yoga…its all the hateful nonsense some of her best friends are writing on Facebook, and they don’t even know her political views.
What is wrong with you?
If it had gone the other way we wouldn’t be angry and aggressive.
She reckons its all going to kick off tonight – so we ain’t going out tonight cos of YOU not getting your own way…spoilt brats.
Tony
The U.S.A. President used a high-profile visit to London in April to warn that Britain would be at the “back of the queue”
for a trade deal in the event of Brexit.
Well Obama, now we have voted for Independence.
http://news.sky.com/story/1717094/obama-says-uk-special-relationship-will-endure
Mr Obama said on Friday in a speech at a global entrepreneurs conference at Stanford University: “While the UK’s relationship with the EU will change, one thing that will not change is special relationship that exists between our two nations.
so you were trying to bully us into doing your bidding?
Any more of his crap and we will take Diego Garcia back.
LOL – but I wouldn’t go diving there – it will be full of American shit…I feel sorry for the fish.
” it will be full of American shit…”
I sincerely hope all the fish your family consumes isn’t farm-raised because they are full of International shit.
They certainly left or dumped tens of tons of toxic matter, explosive matter, radioactive shit, gas cylinders, scrap iron and all sorts of nautical waste in Scotland’s Holy Loch, through its operational period and when de-commissioning it. Which they might be invited to assist in cleaning up.
“that you really can’t swim – you not only damage the coral with your fat guts – you also damage the coral with your flippers…”
No offence to any Americans and I don’t think it’s true but the way you said that was just hysterical…didn’t half make me laugh, which I don’t on here often.
Dang! We are awash in intolerance and hate speech.
Brittania !!!!
There’s one down. How about the inciter?
Hmm. Selective enforcement. Legal issue…
There’s a high probability that Obama’s speech was cleared with Cameron’s government.
A certainty, Lysias, not a high probability.
I suspect it misfired badly.
Lol. Cameron’s was a load of sour-grapes he wants to manage for a few more months……badly, as usual I might add.
“You really have upset my wife”
You want to know what really upset my wife?
When George Bush gave Ferdinand Marcos a nice sanctuary in Hawaii instead of returning him to The Philippines to face trial for killing her uncle…..
About the same time Thatcher was giving Pinochet sanctuary in the UK.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html
No PM, no plan and definitely no paddle. Bankers will have to moderate their cocaine habits and constitutional lawyers will have a future for the rest of their life’s.
Who knows whether England will be invited to qualify for the next EU championship, so enjoy this one whilst it last, Iceland has a very good defence.
“Lagarde had previously condemned the Leave campaign, warning that leaving the EU would result in economic catastrophe.
Now she eats her words.
So, if everyone wants us to be in the front of the Queue wot were all the ludicrous threats for,surely they were not trying to derail democracy?
Of course they were. Just look how they shafted Greece. They don’t care two hoots about “We The People” including Craig, with his FCO guaranteed pension.
Northern Ireland Sinn Fein chairman Declan Kearney was just interviewed on RT, He called for a “border poll” that would permit the union of Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Martin McGuinness has called for the same: Brexit: Sinn Fein’s Martin McGuinness calls for border poll on united Ireland after EU referendum result.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom%E2%80%93United_States_relations
(USAFE-AFAFRICA).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Lakenheath
The Americans have already made their choice which side their bread is buttered and their bread is buttered in the United Kingdom, not in France.
All the bluffs put to us by leaders of other countries, were just that, bluffs,
why would they shut the doors to the fifth largest economy in the world,
why would the Americans give us the cold shoulder, when we are second only to the USA in Five Eyes,
who would have been their second fiddle in NATO,
where would Airstrip One be situated if not in the U.K.
All Bluffs,
I am glad we did not buckle to the bluffs, not external bluffs and not internal bluffs, we now will be getting our country back.
“I fear there will a worse come in his place.”
William Shakespeare, The Tragedy of Julius Caesar, Act III, Scene ii (1599)
You Mean Hilary Clinton?
http://shakespeare.mit.edu/macbeth/macbeth.4.1.html
The Irish Times has a playlist, check it out:
http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/brexit-party-the-songs-for-europe-playlist-1.2698940
Ill met by moonlight, Proud Hillary.
Paul Craig Roberts predicts the plutocrats will pull out all the stops to persuade the British public to change their minds about withdrawing from the EU. Despite the Vote, the Odds Are Against Britain Leaving the EU — Paul Craig Roberts. And one of the things that he predicts is already happening:
On the possibility that UK voters will be offered a second chance, pls refer to a couple of my posts on the previous thread.
Quality Rob.
Another interesting piece of information in another piece by Paul Craig Roberts about the Brexit vote: More on Brexit — Paul Craig Roberts:
It occurs to me that that’s not the type of army you want to have if your intention is to put down a popular uprising.
Already in his first column on the Brexit vote today, Roberts was predicting the attack on the British economy, The Brexit Vote — Paul Craig Roberts, and in this column he has a suggestion for how this attack can be resisted:
Indeed. Why else would Cameron delay his departure for 90 days? Why, only to implement the ‘Will of the people” of course.