The “anti-semitism” witch-hunt that accused so many human rights advocates for supporting Palestine, has weirdly come to a dead halt when confronted with an actual anti-semite. Thomas Mair has been judged competent to be charged by two doctors, yet the right throughout both new and old media still hide behind his mental illness as an excuse to avoid the issues of right wing terrorism. As a bipolar person, I find a great deal of the comment around mental health deeply insulting.
Let me avoid hypocrisy. I do not think Thomas Mair should be charged with terrorism because I do not think anybody should be charged with terrorism. I have held that the law-making orgy of new “terrorist” offences was legally unnecessary and purely political propaganda. Murder and conspiracy to murder always were perfectly adequate offences and that is what terrorists ought to be charged with. Murder is the same sordid murder whatever the motive, and to have terrorist murder as a separate offence imbues it with a nobility it does not deserve.
But now terrorism has been created as a separate offence, the blatant discrimination in non-application of terrorist charges to right wing terrorists is indefensible.
Mair is not an isolated case. Ryan McGee – who built a nail bomb to attack Muslims – and Pavlo Lapshyn – who murdered a Muslim and bombed mosques – were not charged with terrorism either. Mair, McGee and Lapshyn would all, beyond any possible shadow of a doubt, have been charged with terrorism if they were Muslims. The decision is made by the Crown Prosecution Service, which has also recently decided that Tony Blair, Jack Straw, John Scarlett, Mark Allen et all will not stand trial for extraordinary rendition and complicity in torture, despite overwhelming evidence presented by the Metropolitan Police, including my own.
There is a dark cloud of Islamophobia hanging over the Crown Prosecution Service. Given the totality of these decisions, there has to be.
Labour is just fine with NAZI’s in the Ukraine. What’s wrong with them in the UK?
RD.
Could be worse I suppose Alan could be applauding the million citizens murdered in Iraq, by US/UK and their coalition buddies, on the false pretense of WMD’s.
Now US/UK and its coalition are bombing in Syria they have no mandate to be there, and have probably kilked more Syrians than all of Assads barrel bombs put together.
Which of course is of very little relevance to what the White Helmets are doing.
On the contrary, if the Western/Saudi/Turkish coalition are bombing Syria, and killing people in the process, then it is indeed relevant.
You’re quick to mention barrel bombs, but not coalition bombs, which kill and injure Syrians as well. Those injured by coalition bombs are removed by the White Helmets, though it’s very unlikely the Western press reports coalition bombings that kill and maim citizens.
“If there is any doubt concerning the nefarious undertones of subversiveness in these NGO dealings, [National Endowment for Democracy] NED founder reportedly said the following in the 1990s: ‘A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA.’ What was once done at night under the cloak of ‘imperialism’ is now done during the day under the guise of ‘humanitarianism.”
“As we pointed out in Part I of this exposé, The White Helmets humanitarian front is mainly financed by the British Foreign Office. According to Richard Spencer of the London Telegraph:”
“The Foreign Office is currently the largest single source of funding. It is an irony that if Britain does effectively become an ally of Assad, and starts raids against Isil in Syria, it will be bombing from the air and paying for the bodies to be dug out on the ground. The White Helmets are also operating in at least one Isil-held area.”
Please provide some independent evidence that the White Helmets are actually bombing or harming anyone.
Who said the White Helmets are bombing or harming anyone, I did however say that the White Helmets could be used for alterior motives. That takes the shape of photographs taken of them carrying injured Syrians, from around Syria, with captions reading Assad did this on everyone of them.
When in reality those injured or dead Syrians could be victims of coalition bombing and Nato backed proxy fighters.
Here you go;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=8aAaReVn2I4
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/04/30/video-syria-white-helmets-exposed-and-petition-to-prevent-their-nomination-for-nobel-peace-prize/
“Who said the White Helmets are bombing or harming anyone, ”
Alan – read his posts.
Macky I said “independent” – the links you gave tie to “Hands off Syria” and the “Syria Solidarity Movement” both of which fail that test. RT and PressTV will not work either.
@ RD ignoring the restated moderation rules already ?
“Address the argument, not the person.”
Which is exactly what I did.
“Which is exactly what I did.”
??!! Where’s your critique/refutation of the points made in the links ?!
I used to work in a factory that made chlorine. They gave us all a gas-mask to put on if there was a chlorine leak. The problem was, still is I guess, that you get a whiff of chlorine and your natural reaction is to start gagging. The gas mask does no good if you are vomiting. Chlorine is a terrible thing to be bombing with.
I would agree
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/24/syria-regime-accused-of-using-chlorine-bombs-on-civilians
Seems like the other side really like using CW including chlorine;
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/05/see-for-yourself-syrian-government-likely-did-not-use-chemical-weapons.html
Following excerpt is from an interview with author and investigative journalist Russ Baker of the WhoWhatWhy web site. The interview was on the topic of the recent mass shooting event in Orlando:
Jeff Schechtman: Talk a little bit about the danger in addition, that often times with these stories, once the public narrative is created, I mean and you certainly saw it with the Boston bombing, once the narrative is created by the mainstream media, the first rush of information that’s out there, it’s so difficult to get the public to look at any alternative explanation.
Russ Baker:Well, that’s right. There’s this kind of lock-step that falls into place, certainly right after 9/11. The tragedy itself is so all-pervasive, it filters into our very pores. The appropriate response, and I think people who are socially adept understand the appropriate response is sympathy and expressions of horror and commiseration. And that’s what the president did, that’s what the governor did, that’s what the mayor did, and so forth. Those are the first steps. And that’s what the media does. The first steps are just ‘Oh my god this thing happened’. What could we learn about it on a most basic level? But there certainly is a sense at that moment that you don’t start asking deeper questions. And then as the days go by, there are more questions being asked, but I still think there is this kind of sense of a need to conform to the will or the consensus of the crowd. And that’s a very powerful thing, and it afflicts all kinds of people in all walks of life. It certainly afflicts investigators and journalists. And those who go in another direction become very, very unpopular.
Audio with written transcript of the interview at:
http://whowhatwhy.org/2016/06/17/russ-baker-dont-rush-judgement-orlando-shooting/
I don’t like EDSTONE MILLIBAND but I thought he did a good job of stopping Cameron from bombing Syria.
However Cameron eventually got his desire.
Miliband was all in favour of bombing Syria, it was only his own backbenchers and Putin banging a few heads together behind the scenes that stopped it.
I agree that it’s wrong that we live in a society that pretends that there isn’t both far-right and far-left terrorism Craig, but I don’t think this is the fault of the Jews. Jo was a keen advocate for the rights and well-being of the Palestinians yet over the last few months she was also campaigned against the anti-Semitism that has been infecting her own party. I believe she was right to be worried about the neo-Nazi individuals who have infiltrated Labour and also those who hijack the Palestinian advocacy in an attempt to lend a respectable fig-leaf to their far-right views which would otherwise be dismissed just as that. I’m disappointed about the sneer quotes you put around anti-Semitism either, as this is very real and not a threat like ‘witches’ that was just a made up one. Recently, a neo-Nazi group called National Action were found guilty of harassing Labour MP Luciana Berger for months with vile anti-Semitic insults and threats. The far-right have also sent homophobic insults and threats to openly gay MP, Ben Bradshaw. We could so easily see another murder of an MP like Jo Cox – and let’s remember that society is right to be vigilant against racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia, transphobia, classism, ableism and other forms of hate as the proponents of such do not always arrive fully identifiable wearing KKK robes or WW2 Nazi regalia, waving a swastika flag. These things are happening in the real world to real people. I don’t mean to be presumptuous, but maybe the damaging impact of certain prejudices against minority groups and one majority group (i.e. women) might be difficult for someone from a white, male, gentile, upper-middle class, gender-normative, heterosexual, ‘able-bodied’ background to fully grasp?
Ps. Apologies for the outrageous typos in my above post – but hopefully it will make a little sense.
”Jo was a keen advocate for the rights and well-being of the Palestinians yet over the last few months she was also campaigned against the anti-Semitism that has been infecting her own party. ”
Antisemitism hasn’t infected Labour. Being critical of Israel or saying Zionism is a political ideology is NOT antisemitism.
Becky I don’t understand your comment about it not being the fault of the Jews, of course it isn’t and nobody said it was.
Criticising Israel for it’s brutal killing of Palestinians is not antisemitism, those MP’s were talking about Zionists and Israel, and not the Jewish religion. Livingstone should not have been removed as he was not being antisemitic.
Also the Bradford MP who mentioned about Israel relocating to USA was originally proposed by a Jew, an anti Zionist, Norman Finkelstein.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-row-naz-shah-israel-map-norman-finkelstein-obscene-a7012461.html
Criticising Islam’s psychopaths isn’t Islamophobia either, but Progressives have extremely thin skin on anything remotely approaching their concept of bigotry.
Then perhaps you would care to identify the psychopaths with their correct label/affiliation/etc. and not the usual sweeping “Islamic” which is a lazy shorthand, that is frankly getting fucking tiring to read or hear about!
I will help you to get started; Wahhabi, Daesh to begin with:
Wahhabi are the sect that is choice of the self appointed king* of the benighted lands of Hijaz that is wrongly denoted as Saudi Arabia. There is no Saudi anywhere in the Arab lands of Hijaz other than in the house of ibn Saud the notorious pederasts and carpetbaggers whose bribery and excess decadence is the stuff of cheap paperbacks.
Daesh is the correct acronym for the gang of brigands and cut-throat mercenaries whose only mission is to kill and maim as many Muslims as possible because they do not consider the wider Muslims to be religious enough and hence their blood ought to spilt and their lives ended.
* with a bit of help from us, not forgetting the benevolent permission of the queen.
As you wish. I just don’t want mass labling of Muslims as victims without any recourse.
They can speak out much more vociferously than they have in the Past.
It’s time to separate themselves from the untoward.
Ben that was the line of the establishment when the internment was the order of the day and Catholics were expected to speak up against the IRA and separate themselves. Tat tired line no longer has the zing it used to have and is yet again an invective in the guise of rational concern and guidance!!!
Muslims don’t need to get up and apologise for every sin of the Wahhabi, and Daesh. In fact when every Christian starts to apologise for the sins/misdeeds/murders of KKK then perhaps they can expect the Muslims to follow suit. Else when every white person begins to apologise for slavery then these whites can expect Muslims to follow suit.
That line of argument is divisive and only leads to a dead end.
Cool your jets Fedup. If it were my faith and someone highjacked it I would be upset enough about it to WANT everyone to know, by every means possible that I am involved in my community for it’s development, not it’s destruction. You see, you and I know this is the true face of Islam and it needs to be publicized. And I do understand the need to be specific so apologies, but that, I hope does not mean I excuse all muslims from a public perception that will persist if they remain idle and disinterested in distinguishing themselves from those who misrepresent them.
Ben has it not crossed your mind that despite the huge resources of the so called Muslim countries ala Kuwait, Qatar, Dubai, the other Arabia, Brunei, ………. there is very little bordering no effort in confronting and addressing the Hatred of Muslims?
Don’t you find it strange that despite the huge cheque book diplomacy is directed at more wars, more oppression and more strife? The ibn Saud pederasts will underwrite the mercenaries and the costs of wreaking havoc in Syria and Iraq, send troops to Yemen to kill more Muslims, and send more troops to Bahrain to suppress and the legitimate political movement in that US navy warehouse. Less said about the ibn Saud’s collusion with the zionist regime in the shitty strip of land.
Yet the same bunch of benevolent benefactors of mayhem, murder and wholesale destruction, oppression, and suppression of large swathes of Muslims have nothing to say about the current wave of hatred towards Muslims and Islam!
You then expect every single Muslim to be genuflecting and apologising to the rest of the world, and declare their disdain of the handful of lunatics whose sole mission is to kill more Muslims and de smirch Islam?
Ben start looking at the larger picture and stop limiting yourself to the references set by the Oligarch Owned Media and the politicos.
BTW did you know that in five star hotels of Jeddah and Riyadh fathers are auctioning their sons to join Daesh as suicide bombers in Iraq, Syria, etc.? None of the OOM ever hear about these auctions or ever mention the trending prices of $400,000, do they?
‘ I don’t mean to be presumptuous, but maybe the damaging impact of certain prejudices against minority groups and one majority group (i.e. women) might be difficult for someone from a white, male, gentile, upper-middle class, gender-normative, heterosexual, ‘able-bodied’ background to fully grasp?”
Are you advocating for the female response as outlier in this matter?
You didn’t mention Islamophobia, but perhaps it was an oversight.
Re Syria, here’s latest analysis from MOA;
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/06/syria-another-russian-surprise-ends-kerrys-delaying-tactic.html
Here’s a another only Muslim thing, why is it that groups such as Britain First are totally free to radicalise people like Thomas Mair without being shut-down or investigated by the Police/MI5 ?
O/T Some might be interested in Chomsky’s thoughts on the coming referendum:
[The Colossus]: “The UK will soon be voting on its EU membership. The Left seems in large part to be quite dispassionate on the issue, faced with two less than preferable options. Do you have any position on the UK’s EU membership?”
[Chomsky]: “I feel about the same — can’t get enthusiastic about either option. My guess is that Brexit would probably be harmful. The Left argument for it is, ‘look how rotten the European Union is’, but I think if Britain pulls out that Britain will be even more rotten — it’ll just make it more vulnerable to being a satellite of the United States. It’s going to be less independent in its actions. There’s reason to believe that if Britain pulls out… it would just be weaker, more vulnerable and more subject to external (meaning U.S.) pressures. I don’t see any indication that that would lead to a revival of the Left in England — how would that help left-wing Corbyn-style movements?
It will of course weaken Europe too. Europe has big problems, but I think the answer to those problems is not to break up the European Union, which in many respects was a positive development. [The EU has] got to be democratised and freed from the big banks and so on, but these are feasible projects. Here I agree with [Yanis] Varoufakis for example. He’s trying to organise this DIEM (Democracy in Europe Movement), which I think is a long shot but it makes some sense.”
https://thecolossus.co/2016/06/01/an-interview-with-noam-chomsky/
“I don’t see any indication that that would lead to a revival of the Left in England — how would that help left-wing Corbyn-style movements?”
Chomsky appears not to grasp the fact that several of Corbyn’s most cherished policies for the UK would be unlawful under current EU law.
Should stick to Linguistics.
You should stick to keeping away from civilised debate.
Clearly you are upset after having made a fool of yourself on the other thread.
That I mistook you for another Islamophobic bigot ? Hardly !
Thank you for that John.
“probably too embaressed”
No, that type don’t get embarrassed, nor have any feeling of shame; you only have to recall how they were trying to justify the Israeli mass murder sprees in Gaza as they were actually happening,
You omitted nail bomber who attacked Admiral Duncan who was akin to Mair in his fundamentalist right wing terror agenda
Two damning headlines that illustrate just how debased the EU project has become;
https://www.yahoo.com/news/rape-abuse-stalk-migrant-children-french-slums-un-173745268.html?nhp=1
http://www.dw.com/en/msf-rejects-eu-funding-over-shameful-migrant-pact-with-turkey/a-19338001
The Yahoo story has got nothing to do with the EU. As for MSF, that’ll last a few weeks only, as they’ll need the money. Unless the Americans are ready to replace their financing. And as we all know, American finance comes with strings. They’ll lose their independence.
“The Yahoo story has got nothing to do with the EU”
France in not in Europe? European values allowing unaccompanied children to be at risk ?; utterly shameful.
I wasn’t going to address your other non-point about MSF, but after the latest shooting dead of refugees by Turkey yesterday, which included several children, to respond to the MSF concerns about the moral bankruptcy of the EU-Turkey refugee deal, with the unwarranted smearing & cynical comment about changing their tune when they will need money, is very much in bad taste, if this is an indication of how you try to persuade people to Remain, then for sure you are converting many over to BREXIT.
Aren’t you worried that the anti-EU project might have become a little debased as well? Or is weakening the sanctions against Putin and his fellow Russian oligarchs now the name of the game?
Not again RD !
“Do not impugn the motives of others”
I asked a question – I genuinely don’t know what your motivation is for your attacks on the EU, since you calling the EU project debased for acting against immigrants, but at the same time don’t seem to want to criticise those who oppose the EU often because they believe its immigration policy is too liberal. You have also to be best of my knowledge never uttered any criticism of the Putin regime – so my supposition is hardly unrealistic. You are quite free to answer/not answer the questions how you want.
I don’t want to live in a Europe that treat refugees as criminals, and has robbed & enslaved the Greeks among others, and is NOT democratic; Tony Benn saw the problem back in 1963;
“[I am against] the Treaty of Rome which entrenches laissez faire as its philosophy and chooses bureaucracy as its administrative method.”
Most of the criticism of the EU from the Brexiters is that it is not laissez faire enough and I very much doubt that Johnson, Farage and co will push a softer line with refugees than that currently being followed by the EU – so if you get your wish and the vote is to leave, I see it as more likely than not that we would further away from your objectives not closer. Perhaps you could explain why this would not be the case? It is not George Galloway or even Putin that will exercise power if we vote to leave but Johnson, Farage and Gove – English nationalism would be rampant.
While the Tory’s supporting Brexit are quite happy for their to be an end to laissez faire when it involves the freedom of movement of people – I think you will find that it is very rare for them to argue fro anything other than laissez faire when it comes to the free movement of capital/investment. Anyone with a basic understanding of economics will know that in overall terms (if not necessarily country by country) this will mean an increase in the returns to capital and a reduction in the return to labour. The same analysis will stand under neo classical, Keynesian and Marxist economics.
It’s basically a choice of being ruled by big business corporate puppets either from Brussels or from Westminister, at least with Westminster you get the benefit of selecting between one of two competing muppets, a sort of lesser evil choice x 2 !
I raised concerns last year when David Cameron and a senior military figure both referred to Jeremy Corbyn, then newly-elected Leader of her Majesty’s Opposition, as, “a security risk”. This absurd slur was amplified by the right-wing press. I wrote that in many other countries, a prime Minster and senior general stating this about an Oppoition politician would be taken virtually as a license to kill. After all, what usually happens to ‘threats to national security’ nowayads? They get assassinated by drone.
I questioned why there was not more outrage and in fact, formal censure of the PM and the General. It was an unprecedented claim by a PM about a Leader of the Opposition.
Now, if someone in a senior position uses inflammatory and irrational language in this manner, there is a danger that some bad/mad bastard will take them at your word. Government ministers and state officials really ought not to be referring to elected members as ‘threats to national security’.
The entire premise of the EU referendum ha sbeen based on pandering to agenda of the Far Right and the irrationality of the arguments and the language has reflected this.
if the Uk votes to leave the EU, the killing on an MP and the rampaging of football hooligans in France will have been just the beginning. There will be much more to come. The Far Right will have been given free license. I am glad that I live in Scotland. the atmosphere of the Scottish Independence refernedum was so wonderfully positive, the ‘Yes’ campaign, so inclusive, it was the diametric opposite of the cultural and ontological rubric of the EU Referendum.
If the UK votes to leave the EU, history will write that in pursuit of their own agenda, the Tories broke up Britain – and in more ways than one.
I am interested in your take on Omar Mateen/islamic sexuality/enablers.
Excellent points – and I’m glad to see your posts here again.
You are so easily led, Glenn.
“If the Uk votes to leave the EU, the killing on an MP and the rampaging of football hooligans in France will have been just the beginning.”
I mean, you were arguing against just this sort of crap only a day ago.
“If the UK votes to leave the EU, history will write that in pursuit of their own agenda, the Tories broke up Britain”
Maybe your agenda. Field, Stewart, Stringer, Hoey, Skinner, Hopkins, etc. Basically all the decent Labour MPs are for out.
“The entire premise of the EU referendum ha sbeen based on pandering to agenda of the Far Right ”
Yes, I suppose the ability to make your own laws by way of your own elected representatives is kind of “Far Right”, if you have a massive chip on your shoulder and wish to divest such powers to unelected and unaccountable foreign bodies.
“… you have a massive chip on your shoulder…” Anon 1
Dogwhistle politics? Posters of brown ‘swarms’ ‘swamping’ the white cliffs of Dover? It remidn sme a little of Thatcher’s 1979 General Election of the “million unemployed”. Well, we know what happend next, don’t we? Anyway, the descent into dogwhistle poiltics here, above, exemplifies precisely what I was arguing. That the whole rubric of the EU referendum, the obession with ‘migrants’, the racist politics of Cameron, Farage et al, has given massive license to the White Supremacist Right in this country. As always, divide-and-rule is the name of the game. Once again, thank goodness I live in Scotland.
“White Supremacist Right”
You are kidding, right? I suppose if they hardly exist, you have to invent them.
I’m with the excellent Kwasi Karteng MP. I want the ability to make our own laws and be represented by our own elected politicians. I want control of our borders and immigration brought under control.
You don’t. That’s fair enough. But don’t call me the extremist.
I didn’t call you extremist. I suggested that like David Cameron, Nigel Farage et al, you were deploying dogwhistle politics, which gives license to the Far Right extremists.
Nigel Farage has defended his controversial EU migration poster after it was criticised by Remain and Leave campaigners.
The UKIP leader told Sky News the poster, showing a stream of non-white migrants walking through the countryside under the slogan “Breaking Point,” “reflects the truth” about migration and the European Union.
Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon called for the poster to be withdrawn, describing it on the Murnaghan programme as “vile and racist,” while Chancellor George Osborne said it had “echoes of literature used in the 1930s”.
Campaigners on the Leave side have been equally scathing, with Justice Secretary Michael Gove saying he “shuddered” when he saw the poster and Chris Grayling calling it “wrong”.
Mr Farage told Sky’s Dermot Murnaghan that the poster – which has been reported to police for alleged racism – would not be appearing again as it was the first in a series of five planned for the referendum campaign’s final days.
He said the campaign would not have attracted so much attention had it not been for the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox hours after the poster was launched last Thursday.
He said: “That poster reflects the truth of what’s going on, there’s a new poster coming out tomorrow morning.
“I wish an innocent member of Parliament had not been gunned down in the street and frankly, had that not happened, I don’t think we’d have had the kind of row we have had.
He added: “If you see what Chancellor Merkel did last summer by saying ‘just come in unlimited numbers’ – we do not want to be part of a union that is failing in every regard.”
http://news.sky.com/story/1714218/farage-defends-vile-and-racist-eu-poster
Even if we vote to leave the hated E.U.
Cameron will stitch up the result, so it looks like he won.
They will not let us be free and be ourselves any longer.
According to this report, the US and the UN are, planning a regime change in Eritrea.
“The UN commission demands that Eritrea be put on trial before the International Criminal Court, a body that has indicted only Africans.”
http://www.blackagendareport.com/us_plots_war_against_eritrea
Re my 18.26 pm comment.
It is also very interesting to note, that the United States military is deployed in more than 150 countries around the world, the question must be why is that ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments
RoS asks “It is also very interesting to note, that the United States military is deployed in more than 150 countries around the world, the question must be why is that ?”
Because they are now an Empire.
Somebody here argues that they are not an empire, but a “hegemony” 🙂
https://www.quora.com/Is-the-United-States-an-empire
Alan.
Add this to the mix, as to why the US is desperate to create a EU army to quell dissent around Europe. Of course I’d imagine the official narrative is one of showing a united front against Russia.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2016-06-06/schengen-zone-nato
Thanks for highlighting this. These double standards have existed for a very long time and the Muslims in Britain are pretty fed up.
Very moving to see so many Muslims who turned up for prayer sessions for Jo. It was as if she was one of their own. God bless her.
Petition to cancel EU referendum surges in wake of Jo Cox killing
The petition is likely to hit 100,000 signatures before polling day
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-jo-cox-murder-killing-petition-cancel-suspend-shooting-signatures-parliament-mps-a7088966.html
A petition to cancel next week’s European Union referendum has surged in support in the days following the killing of MP Jo Cox.
As of lunchtime more than twenty thousand deluded idiots have signed it.
Michael, why do you call them ‘deluded idiots’?
I don’t pose this question in a nasty or sarcastic way.
I’m just curious.
Well, I might have got that wrong.
There seems to be a quick-paced movement afoot
to snatch our Democracy from under us.
I do not know who is behind this.
If it is a “grand coalition”
of the SNP, Labour, LIbDem and Conservative, Green, Plaid Cymru political parties
that is ghastly and utterly undemocratic.
However, I may be over-thinking,
it may just be deluded idiots who are so shocked a woman M.P. has been slaughtered, they think Democracy is a price well worth paying to bring harmony to Britain, we should all kiss each other and hold hands around candles and forget the referendum .
Resident Dissident
I just deleted another two of your comments. On the substance of what you are saying I actually agree with you to a large degree, but please try to say it without including a dig at Alan. I could simply have deleted your last phrase, which was completely unnecessary to the argument anyway, but I am trying to get the way it should work home to you.
Thanks for the deletion clarity. It’s a rare bird.
The rules all seem pretty fair to me – but some of the attacks on Jo Cox have been pretty below the belt and I don’t feel much guilt for responding in kind.
Though I do feel some guilt – as my upbringing and Methodist Sunday School did teach me that two wrongs don’t make a right.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism
“Although “terrorism” originally referred to acts committed by a government, currently it usually refers to the killing of innocent people[9] for political purposes in such a way as to create a spectacle.”
…Yup… he is a terrorist.
It’s not just that only “Muslims” are terrorists. The obvious strategy of the mainstream media and every single official statement is to avoid the words “WHITE terrorist”. Perhaps that is pointed out other places here but I haven’t seen it on this thread so far (apologies if I missed something).
Same smell in America. McVeigh was an outlier as a white man. It was called terror in the 90’s but that push-back has increased as Republicans see their gubmint as outlaws and mass murderers.
Right-wing terror proceeds from the barrel of State-owned ordnance. Therefore; get used to it.
“I do not think Thomas Mair should be charged with terrorism because I do not think anybody should be charged with terrorism.”
How many people have actually been tried for terrorism in the UK? It seems to be a useful device to hold people while the police look for evidence for more substantial charges such as murder or conspiracy to murder or possessing explosives.
If the Peoples Referendum is cancelled because of the bastard,
he should be charged for diverting Democracy.
Who is Christopher McGinty ?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/123450
Petition Cancel the planned referendum on Britain’s continued membership of the EU.
According to the BBC (as at the 26th February 2016) 444 MPs of (almost) all parties have declared their support for Britain staying a member of the European Union on the basis of the reform package negotiated by the Prime Minister, David Cameron.
►More details
Sign this petition
31,024 signatures
Michael are you truly against a petition to stop the referendum?
Just asking, because you keep promoting/linking to it with every post you make.
I doubt your indignation, there is no such thing as negative publicity, its all publicity.
http://www.scotsman.com/business/management/christopher-mcginty-capturing-german-investment-1-4015316
Is this the undemocratic TWAT?
Christopher McGinty
Glasgow, Scotland – an ambulance chaser
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/cancel-brexit-vote-citizens-petition-christopher-mcginty
trying to divert Democracy.
Is this him?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_Anniesland_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
If so,
The Scottish LibDems are trying to snatch the peoples referendum from beneath our feet,
using the death of a woman M.P.
General Election 1992: Eltham
Party Candidate Votes % ±
Conservative Peter Bottomley 18,813 46.0 -1.5
Labour Clive Efford 17,147 41.9 +9.9
Liberal Democrat Christopher P McGinty 4,804 11.7 −8.8
Independent Andrew James Graham 165 0.4 N/A
Majority 1,666 4.07 -11.46
Turnout 40,929 78.7 +1.78
Conservative hold Swing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eltham_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
If this Peoples Referendum gets canceled because of the Liberal Democrats
they will have ceased to be a Democratic movement.
Muslims have been ‘terrorised’ with the word ‘terrorist’ for so long it’s an insult if Thomas Mair was part of ‘our terrorist circle.’
I’ve become desensitised to the medias bullshit where if they put up a pic of a Muslim
doc operating and saving lives but the caption ‘Islamic radical steals organs from heart patient for sadistic ritual blah blah .’ I would not be outraged.
Britain First don’t get the same treatment as a bearded guy or a hijaabi; big shocker. White privilege still prevails and probably always will.
I think that murder, the loss of anyone’s life except for Netanyahu, Assad, Cameron and all those political a holes behind the media corruption and war, is tragic. Terrorism or not, the loss of Jo Cox is the loss of s brilliant compassionate mother who was tireless with her campaign against hate. Thomas Mair killed a much needed figure in what remains a small fraction of the humane side of politics. RIP Jo.
I agree, Zainab. But you know, the White Supremacist Far Right really consist of a concatenation of cowards. They killed a five foot tall woman because they feared her and what she represented. The rest of us (i.e most people) should not fear anything but should stand tall and stand up to these racists – and to those who facilitate and empower them – and tell them where to go: “Je suis Jo Cox”.
For those who want to understand what’s happening in Syria beyond the propaganda;
http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/15/syria-aleppo-doctor-demolishes-imperialist-propaganda-and-media-warmongering/
Europol TE-SAT reports 2011-2015
Total number of right wing terrorist attacks: 68%
Total number of religiously inspired attacks: 1.4%
[Link: https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/37%5D
Craig, are Tony Blair and Jack Straw terrorists in your opinion?
Or simply murderers or parties involved in conspiracies to murder?
I’ve tried to be tactful about the brutal murder of Jo Cox, but a matter of days after her death this is now being pumped out…
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/18/politicians-eu-membership-blair-clegg-brexit-referendum
I should perhaps state my position: I’ve always been very pro-Europe and are committed to closer unity. However, I fear that the European Union has now become so corrupt (and a quite blatant vessel of the American empire) that it is beyond redemption. Thus I find myself a strange bedfellow of Capn’ Farrage & Co, all of whom I think are racists and loons who have absolutely no understanding of the world they live in.
What strange times we are going through…
Don’t worry. Craig is a bedfellow of Cameron, Osborne, Blair, Straw and the IMF.
I would hazard that Craig holds the same opinion as me about the European Union, but unlike me he has more direct experience of what goes on behind the scenes.
I could go into a rant now, but will desist and just say that next Thursday is going to be interesting.
“Don’t worry. Craig is a bedfellow of Cameron, Osborne, Blair, Straw and the IMF.”
That is so not true! I myself was on a march through London where we all whistled going past No 10 and Craig spoke in Hyde Park. Even Osama Bin Laden was in London that day and I still have the pictures I took to prove it.
Some people benefited from Jo Cox’s murder: Telegraph: Tragically, Jo Cox’s murder is in danger of deepening divisions after polling day :
But now terrorism has been created as a separate offence… as another interlocking piece to the Grand Plan of which terror is the impetus and catalyst, while the ‘war on terrorism’ is the motivation and necessary incitement to the veneer of cajoled regime change which together in a complex connection oils the wheels of war.
Speaking of ‘oil’ you honestly believe these wars are all about oil? Where’s your tinfoil hat? That is my answer to the derisive attempt on behalf of blind conformists to discredit and stigmatise those who dare to question authority i.e. “have you seen the tinfoil hats comments” when a tinfoil hat only improves reception and makes it easier for a government to read your mind 😉 Speak truth to power!
Truth that brings to light the first hand epiphany of Daesh videos filmed in a U.S. controlled facility, the video footage of American helicopters landing in areas controlled by the ISIL in al-Makhoul mountains in Salahuddin province Iraq – http://en.farsnews.com/player.aspx?nn=13950320000664 (apologies for the .aspx file) and the so called abject British Army Officer James Le Mesurier (lights, camera, action) Syrian Civil Defense that for one or two demands foreign intervention in Syria via a “No Fly Zone” and reports allegations of Syrian government chlorine gas attacks.
In anguish and despite WMD hindsight and the universally accepted knowledge that it was in fact pure fiction that took us to war in both Iraq, and in Libya too, there is still a huge degree of cognitive dissonance at play over the Syria commentary. The lies regarding Syria, lies which are designed to justify western military intervention and arming proxy militants, are ongoing.
It reminds me of an Abbot and Costello routine called ‘who’s on first’.
A deliberate farce of whimsy that attaches itself to the statist Anarchy.
Trouble is Ben the freaky gag that is a reign of terror becomes enjoyment of violence and death; enjoyment that mutates to recreation and adventure to some; then the few become many and Armageddon.
Are we really that cruel to our children and indirectly their children? – is this sustainable development??
The People are weary of war but they morphed it into ‘regional conflicts’ and War Powers is the path to circumventing public knowledge about the confidential facts for their eyes only, Mark.
We have allowed this to happen in our slumber. It looks as though the die is cast for the near future and we just have to ride out the storm until enough folks emerge from their hibernation and recognize their role as Stakeholders.
“The die is cast” as “Alea iacta est” attributed by the Roman historian Suetonius to Julius Caesar as he led his army across the Rubicon river in Northern Italy and began his long war.
For the few there is NO life without war, for the elite with their greed, for the politicians with their given power, for the army with their given kudos, commendation, praise and status, life without death is ‘au courant’ and without war the soft-core elite corporation and order slither down the slope to the destitute survival pit of humanity below the pyramid of wealth and power.
This bunch of elite authoritarian and the totalitarian psychotic bananas know as Caesar knew when he marched on Rome with his armies, that he will either have to win, or die.
Do we ‘ride the storm’ until they die??
Maybe someday we will have more control over the weather Mark. The Storm seems rto have a life of it’s own even as the clouds are seeded for longevity. The only thing we can do is what People seem unready for; Revolution.
muslims are not Terrorists. actually islam is a peace of the life
You obviously don’t read the Daily Mail.
But you might read the Guardian, which is now quite blatantly a CIA controlled operation. Only the very dumb American security services would keep promoting a former prime minister who is more toxic than bleach.
Attaulah, this is not really the thread to discuss this matter. But your statement that, “muslims are not Terrorists” is simply untrue.
Muslims are terrorising Muslims all over the place. Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia… Glasgow.
We do have to face this fact. We cannot simply evade the issue by intoning, ‘But they are not Muslim’. they are, and they are committing these terrible acts in the name of Islam. For you and for millions of others, Islam is a religion of peace. And good on you for that. But clearly, over the past 40 years, that ha snot been true of many others.
Salaam.
So does he get charged with madness. He took an inocent life. He thought his actions out. Also home made gun. He had the amunition first, he took the time to make the gun to fit the bullets. That takes time.
I totally agree that murder is murder, whatever the motivation, but the law only allows for a charge of murder after the event. Consequently, specific terrorism laws were needed to address planned terrorist acrivities and to allow authorities to bring people to trial before they had actually succeeded in killing.
“I do not think Thomas Mair should be charged with terrorism because I do not think anybody should be charged with terrorism. I have held that the law-making orgy of new “terrorist” offences was legally unnecessary and purely political propaganda. Murder and conspiracy to murder always were perfectly adequate offences and that is what terrorists ought to be charged with.”
Thank you for saying this. More people need to say it. I try never to use the word “terrorism” because it clouds thought.
Craig, the police and CPS have both issued statements saying Mair “will be charged and tried according to and under the conditions of the Prevention of Terrorism Act”. As he’s not a Muslim, I respectfully suggest your claim doesn’t stand up.
Could I just also make it clear that Mair applied for the DIY gun 17 years ago….when Jo was still studying, and the word ‘Brexit’ hadn’t even been invented. He is not and never has been a member of either UKIP or Britain First – as indeed I am not either.
Cheers