Even the mainstream media feel compelled to drop hints that Owen Smith is not what he is being promoted as. The Guardian’s words yesterday were unintentionally revealing;
the former shadow work and pensions secretary plans to pitch himself as the soft-left option
Note “to pitch himself”. For PR professional Smith, political stance is nothing to do with personal belief, it is to do with brand positioning. On Channel 4 News last night, an incredulous Michael Crick pointed out that the “soft left” Smith had previously given interviews supporting PFI and privatisation in the health service. He also strongly supported Blair’s city academies.
As chief lobbyist for Pfizer, Smith actively pushed for privatisation of NHS services. This is not something Pfizer did very openly, and you have to search the evidence carefully. Footnotes often tell you what is really happening, as in this press release in which Owen Smith says of a Pfizer funded “focus group” study:
We believe that choice is a good thing and that patients and healthcare professionals should be at the heart of developing the agenda.
You have to look at the footnotes to see what kind of choice Owen Smith is actually talking about. Note to Editors 3 includes
“The focus groups also explored areas of choice that do not yet exist in the UK – most specifically the use of direct payments and the ability to choose to go directly to a specialist without first having to see the GP.”
Well, at least it is clear – direct payments from the public to doctors replacing current NHS services. Smith was promoting straight privatisation. As Head of Policy and Government Relations for Pfizer, Owen Smith was also directly involved in Pfizer’s funding of Blairite right wing entryist group Progress. Pfizer gave Progress £53,000. Progress has actively pursued the agenda of PFI and privatisation of NHS services.
Owen Smith went to Pfizer from a Labour Party job, while Labour were in government, and there is no doubt that his hiring was an example of the corrupt relationship between New Labour and big business which is why the Blairites are so hated by the public. It is also beyond any argument that if Pfizer had any doubts about Owen Smith’s willingness to promote the Big Pharma and NHS Privatisation agenda, they would never have hired him.
Owen Smith is a strong supporter of Trident and assiduously courts the arms industry. He is a regular at defence industry events.
Perhaps most crucially of all, Owen Smith joined his fellow Red Tories in abstaining on the Tory welfare benefit cuts.
I do not doubt Owen Smith’s expertise in brand positioning. I expect that there are indeed a large number of Labour Party members who might vote for a left wing alternative to Corbyn. But I also suspect that Smith has adopted the PR man’s typical contempt for the public, who are not as stupid as he seems to think. There is no evidence whatsoever that Smith is a left winger. There is every evidence that he is another New Labour unprincipled and immoral careerist, adopting a left wing pose that he thinks will win him votes.
People will notice, Owen. They really are not that stupid.
It’s likely they’ve had this plan formulated and on ice. Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson gave the go-ahead.
Boris hits the ground running in his nice new job, while May is out of town, but did she have the final say or is Boris the power behind the chair.
.
So it’s nothing to do with the fact that the truck driver’s wife had just left him?
That’s not congruent with the much-reported (thus hardly credible) reports the lorry contained guns, grenades and military grade expolsives.
Why is it so hard to consider this was a murderous act of terrorism, by an unhinged religious freak?
OK, so explain this Banner Headline:
‘He drank alcohol, ate pork and took drugs. He was NOT a Muslim – he was a s***’: Truck terrorist’s cousin reveals he is an ‘unlikely jihadist’ who beat his wife and NEVER went to the mosque
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691895/He-drank-alcohol-ate-pork-took-drugs-NOT-Muslim-Truck-terrorist-Mohamed-Lahouaiej-Bouhlel-s-cousin-reveals-unlikely-jihadist-beat-wife-NEVER-went-mosque.html
The guy was just a messed-up truck driver – no ISIS involved at all.
But hang on a minute – “Tony M” knows for a fact that this was carried out on the orders of Johnson. Why would Johnson have chosen a crappy lorry driver for an important job like this?
Leadership Spill = Running Interference for Blair.
That’s it. All you need to know.
I swear, Corbyn can be Churchill to Blair’s Hitler. These are the stakes. I’m not religious in the slightest, but I do have a weird sense of fate here. This is important. Politicians are not important, but this particular fight is.
Fuck Blair.
Doesn’t explain why the US is so pissed at the UK.
The Yanks are perpetually pissed at everybody. Hadn’t you noticed? It’s the cold lonely nights out on the trail.
They weren’t pissed at Blair.
So pro-Blair was the U.S. government thst they resurrected their drive for the extradition of Roman Polanski while he was engaged in postproduction of his movie The Ghostwriter, his filming of Robert Harris’s roman a clef The Ghost attacking Blair.
Out of the EU by 2018, says Brexit secretary David Davis, if the planned time table is successful.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/689605/Brexit-2018-British-Independence-EU-referendum-brussels-Secretary-David-Davis
Theresa May is in Scotland today for talks with Nicola Sturgeon, May has emphatically stated Brexit means Brexit, so I’d imagine Scotland’s FM will next week announce a indy ref 2.
It’ll sure be interesting to hear what Nicola has to say after the meeting.
Hats off to these guys (and gals), they are a rollin’!
I have been saying from the second Eagle resigned that she is, after attempting to shed tears live on TV in utter vain, a toothless Crocodile. Apart from that, she is Ugly, in more ways than one.
The Good (JC), the Bad (OS) and the Ugly (Eagle). Watch the play.
I have no time for Eagle but what hits me in the gut in so many posts where women politicians are involved is, not that they are good or bad or wrong as male politicians are often described but that they are ugly or are witches.
+1 Patricia, you are a (real) Woman after my heart.
All good wishes to you and good luck!
Too right. Total misogyny.
Why was the US so pissed at the UK, post Blair, when Brown was in charge.
Why did relations improve under Cameron. Well, apart from the China thing.
And why is Obama so pissed at May.
And who’s pissed at the French.
It sure ain’t the Brits.
If you´re going to write on an english speaking blog, you must learn correct us of verbs in english. Pissed in english means drunk, the correct usage is pissed off.
Excellent Gwyn, thanks for putting him in his place (uneducated, with an overlord self-image).
Who pitched the idea to Boris I wonder?
What’s Boris’ interest?
Toppling the Syrian government by covert and overt military action, sanctions and siege, and any other means is near top of the list of UK foreign policy objectives and has been for some time, do you think a change of figureheads changes that one bit. This has security services operation all over it and Boris is in the hot seat controlling these departments and several hundred plausibly deniable agencies.
Balkanisation, depopulation of the middle-east, with the added zest to these psychos of antagonising Russia too.
Case closed Boris Johnson ordered the attack on Nice.
But surely the point is that UK foreign policy objectives have changed.
Isn’t that why Obama is pissed.
Have they changed? Is he ‘pissed’? Says who? He’s pissed off with us bloody nuisance plebs, Brexiters – but we don’t count squat – certainly for defying his orders to vote to remain in the EU. And Scots for daring to tell Westminster and Whitehall to FRO, permanently and never darken our doorstep or neighbourhood again. Nothing has changed, the suggestion that it/anything has is groundless.
Special relationship turned sour I don’t think so, the idea is a confection, electioneering posture and theatre, they’re all good chums as long as their various rackets keep earning for them and their set.
The war machine grinds on, fed on oil and blood, to paraphrase that warmonger fiend Churchill.
OK.
So what do you think the implications of Brexit are for US policy in Europe.
Isn’t that a bit of a change in UK foreign policy.
What are the implications of the UK’s new financial relationship with the Chinese.
Looks very much to me that the UK has gone all multipolar.
Like in a good way.
Renewing old aquaintances. There’s a big world of friends out there if you make the effort.
Obama and Hillary aren’t pleased, but Trump’ll love it.
You’re still reading from last year’s script.
Glad to agree with you, for a change! ;-(
As for this clown Owen Smith, on ‘the left’, the international brigades and so on, the only just and worthy parallel would be with a worldwide surge of people heading to Syria to defend the Syrian state, government and people from fascist-backed mercenaries in Islamic garb and defend them from its greedy scumbag neighbours Turkey, Israel and South/Saudi Arabia, the scourge of the the middle-east all three.
The International Brigades if such existed would be fighting against ISIS. For the Syrian people and their lawful democratically elected and popular government. Don’t let Theresa May, Boris Johnson and the Tories carry on murdering Arabs in your name. Support Syria, love Syria.
You are the last person I would have expected to fall for this establishment reshuffle as signifying anything except more of the same.
Turkey’s now making up with Syria, for example.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/13/turkey-pm-greatest-goal-is-to-improve-relations-with-syria-and-iraq
As I said.
It’s all change.
Could begin a wonderful period of peace and prosperity for the whole world.
“You are the last person I would have expected to fall for this establishment reshuffle as signifying anything except more of the same.”
It’s more than an establishment reshuffle.
It’s a break from the current US unipolar model.
Herbie: July 15, 2016 at 16:07. “Turkey’s now making up with Syria, for example.”
Turkey wants Mosul (and its oil) back, it has been a bone since the Lausanne treaties after ww1, it always has, there might even be something in its constitution inviolable, the very foundation of the state, on the matter. Mosul is in Iraq, Turkey, with help, has gone around Syria for the moment, but their caliphate and that of ISIS are one and the same.
Wasn’t the Caliphate PM sacked.
It’s all change. All over the world.
You can tell the countries that are changing policy in a rapidly changing world.
They get terroristed.
Turkey’s had a lot of that too.
Herbie: July 15, 2016 at 16:26. “Wasn’t the Caliphate PM sacked. It’s all change. All over the world.”
Someone then will need to give a summation of the changes, all this must have passed me by during an indulgent blink.
“Case closed Boris Johnson ordered the attack on Nice.”
Good thing you’re not actually in charge of anything, least of all the investigation!
Boris didn’t order the Nice attacks. If he ever gets involved in false flags I’m sure they’ll be more wryly humourous than they are heart wrenchingly evil. Most politicians are figureheads especially in their first week on the job. Besides so far I see no evidence Nice was anything other than real
If Nice was a Western operation, it would have to have been in the works well before Boris became Foreign Minister
The sickening feeling that the public is being manipulated from government and shadow government depresses me. I wish I knew a lot more about the conniving classes.
“Syria’s envoy to the UN has called on the international community to draw up an effective mechanism to end Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights and its continued exploitation of the natural resources of the territory.”
“Speaking at a UN Security Council session on Tuesday, Bashar al-Ja’afari said Israeli forces continue to arbitrarily detain Syrian nationals and loot water and petroleum resources in the Golan Heights in flagrant violation of international law and regulations.”
“He urged the UN to force Israel to end its occupation of the Golan Heights and withdraw from the area in compliance with the Security Council Resolution 497, which was adopted unanimously on December 17, 1981, and which declares Tel Aviv’s annexation of Golan as “null and void and without international legal effect.”
I doubt very much that Israel will be forced to give up such a lucrative and fertile area. Genie oil and other Israeli companies, won’t want to return part of the Golan Heights to Syria or anyone else for that matter.
The UN will as usual huff and puff and make a few noises, but in the end they daren’t defy the US.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2016/07/13/474934/Syria-Bashar-alJaafari-Israel-Golan-Heights-
Israel is driving Arabs out of East Jerusalem by demolishing their homes, already 13,000 Palestinians have be driven out of the West Bank, under the same procedure.
https://www.rt.com/news/351022-arab-homes-demolished-report/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome
Yeahbut:
“Opposition Leader Herzog Signed Secret Agreement to Turn West Bank Over to Abbas”
http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/70152/opposition-chief-herzog-secretly-agreed-give-entire-west-bank-pa/
Herzog, and his Labour party lost the election, no deal done.
Yes, but Netanyahu is now under sustained pressure from Labour and military and intel leaders, not to mention many others in the world.
Just a question of how long Netanyahu can keep his show on the road.
Israel.
There’s another place where there are very deep divisions between Netanyahu and both the opposition and the military intel apparatus.
It’s all change guys.
Those of you still reading from last year’s texts will now have to update to the latest versions.
I call this treachery evil! Pharmaceutical industries rule US governments and has destroyed people’s lives! Any politician who sleeps with Pharma and is pro privatisation of the NHS are fit for disposal! #IamwithCorbyn
Did you mean France?
From the Express
“It is the 10th terrorist attack carried out in France since January last year. ”
The French cannot let this slide any longer.
The Muslim people will have to be deported back to North Africa.
I think we are seeing the end of the modern world.
I am very pleased the United Kingdom is taking the exit-door from the European Empire,
we can at least pull up the drawbridge.
It will be much harder for the French to pull up the drawbridge.
No, this is about making the state of emergency in France permanent (the state of emergency effectively suspends the rule of law). Hollande is a puppet of Washington, and a total traitor.
Likewise with your glorious new prime minister in the UK, who was the architect of the British police state, which has all been written into law. Sometime soon, probably after another ‘terrorist attack’, they will stop the pretense and you will find out what I’m talking about.
6 million were North African
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France#Ethnic_groups
This is the neo Nuremberg Laws Express is pushing for.
If you want some understanding of what’s going on in this world, you should watch this…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBf4DCpL1Q4
George Bush was blind drunk throughout most of his time as US president, and regularly entertained a male prostitute at the Whitehouse.
If that’s all he was doing or done then good luck to him. Unfortunately he did a lot more than that.
True.
How that clown ever became president is a mystery, we’re lucky the retard didn’t push the nukes button.
Watch the clown at work, he make Boris look presidential.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Be6tunbRcs8
How that clown ever became president is a mystery, we’re lucky the retard didn’t push the nukes button.
You seem to suffer from historical amnesia, he was SELECTED by the supreme court and Al Gore conceded because he was shown the lost film of the JFK shooting!!! Bu$h senior was on the clean up detail that soon after descended upon Dallas to clear up the scene from any potentially incrementing evidence and tie up the loose ends.
The Minot air force base incident that saw six nuclear warheads get mounted on six Advanced Cruise Missiles and improperly removed from a nuclear weapons storage bunker at Minot Air Force Base in North Dakota, then get improperly loaded on a B-52, and then get improperly flown to Barksdale AFB in Louisiana-a report that attributed the whole thing to a “mistake.”
So the button nearly came to be pushed.
CORBYN UNELECTABLE.
result of Wisbey By-Election [Bradford] J Sharp Labour Party votes 1207. 51%
J Smith UKIP votes 655 27%
R Sheard Conservative votes 451 19%
A Griffiths Lib Dem votes 70 3%
http://www.bradfordzone.co.uk/local-election-wibsey-by-election-14-july-2016/
Hundreds of people lined the streets to pay their respects to MP Jo Cox who was shot and stabbed to death last month.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36802887
Why isn’t anyone screeching “False Flag!” about that? Is it because the nut-job who carried it out survived, and is still boasting about it, whereas these religious nut-jobs generally fight to the death in their attacks?
Recollect the statement of Air Vice-Marshal David Walker; asked fighter pilots whether they would consider suicide missions as a last resort to stop terrorists if their weapons had failed or they had run out of ammunition.
It is not just the religious nut jobs as only case, world war II is replete with incidents/stories of “Brave Soldiers” strapping anti tank mines to themselves and crawling under the German tanks to blow up those advancing on their positions. Lots of war movies used the same story lines.
True enough. The Japanese were very fond of kamikaze missions, even though their religions (if they respected one at all) had no concept of martyrdom, and no afterlife. However, most of these ISIS/ AQ etc. inspired terrorist attacks appear to come from some religious motivation, with the idea there is some huge reward waiting for them in the hereafter.
When the terrorist survives (such as the freak who killed Jo Cox), the idea that it was a “False Flag” is unlikely to get much traction. All other terrorist activity, mass-murders, or even tragic accidents tend to attract such a label these days.
Won’t you agree; pushing a living creature too far will result in the creature to come out fighting for all it’s worth. The notion of religiously motivated attacks are a convenient hook to overlook the oppression and mistreatment of the minorities etc. involved. However, it can be argued that the organisation of the “movement”/”group” could be attributed to religious institutions. In the west all uprisings/unrest/revolutions were originated in the beer halls/pubs anywhere where men met and got together. In Islamic countries the only place for gathering remaining available is mosques hence the religious angle.
Further the lack of trust of those claiming “false flag” is not based on their mendacity or insensitivity to pain and suffering of others/victims, but it stems from the moral bankruptcy of those in government and the oligarch owned media supporting them. Thus if you have bone to pick, it ought to be with those latter bunch ie the oligarch owned media and the government. Do you recollect the boy who cried wolf?
French prosecutor: ‘Hallmarks of jihadist terrorism’
Posted at 17:14 BBC
Francois Molins said no group had admitted carrying out the attack but that it bore the hallmarks of jihadist terrorism.
The person has been identified as
Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Lahouaiej_Bouhlel
So this man from Tunisia had been living in France for a decade,
this is how he has repaid the French people.
How many more terror attacks will the French people endure before they loose their humanity and bite back – hard?
One of the reasons the British people voted to leave the E.U.
was so we can take back our borders, so we can decide who we will accept and we can decide who we will not accept, we no longer trust a super-state to do the thinking for us.
This is one of the nettles that the French people have to grasp.
Under E.U. Law they cannot decide who enters France from elsewhere in the E.U.
So a Tunisian if allowed to settle in say Italy or Spain, could then move into France, who would stop him.
I do not know but I suspect France can stop people from moving directly from Tunisia to France?
The new NATO fast reaction base and take-off point for the NATO AWACS is to be Tunisia.
“loose their humanity”
You mean they’ll let it go free, or set it on the world? 🙂
What I mean,
is even the French, at some point, if this terror goes on, will have to do their own thinking.
Let’s say three years down the road and twenty more terror attacks in France by Islamic nutters, slaughtering French people, who knows for what.
The French will have had too much terror
and they might well turn very, very nasty.
France has powerful armed services and nuclear weapons.
The French need to forget about Afghanistan / Iraq / Syria, the real trouble for France is terror in Europe.
Ending institutional racism might be worth a try too
Rubbish
Given the relevations about this man who I in my naivity voted for I would like to see him deselected from the seat in Pontypridd He is a disgrace to the labour movement and we have seen anough of parachuted carrerists in suits in this area he would be better qualified to join the toris as he seems to share the same ideology ba Humbug
This happened in Brussels 24 hours before the Bastille Day attack in Nice…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCLPkw3dvQ8
For those who follow these things, you’ll see the same old same old in the Brussels footage: the actual footage of the event taking place is very bad and blurry, like it’s been done with a 1970s cine camera. The footage of the aftermath is in perfect, modern clarity.
My conclusion: it was going to be either Belgium or France. The emotional impact of Bastille Day swung it for the psychopaths who orchestrate such events.
A great article, very often people, like myself, who consider ourselves fairly intelligent, miss out on this type of information so you do us a great service in educating us. Knowledge is power and must be disseminated lest we let them pull the wool over our eyes again and again.
Great article I had been fooled despite my wife telling me otherwise. Keep the pressure on. I have approached my MP Margaret Hodge to condemn the outrageous bullying by Jamie Reed as she appears quick to condemn it in others but surprisingly to date she has not obliged.
And of course we get this…
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/France-to-Escalate-Strikes-in-Syria-and-Iraq-After-Nice-Attack-20160714-0030.html
I’ve just heard a presenter on LBC radio talking about how Owen Smith has an advantage over Eagle in that he was against the Iraq war. I’ve sent him the link that proves otherwise. But clearly Smith has pulled this one over on a lot of people. The mainstream media can’t be bothered picking up on it… he’s their man it seems…
Having worked in the NHS for over 7 years, I often worked with Pfizer and other Pharmaceutical companies and generally found them to be very committed to supporting improved patient services. Believe it or not, there are occasions where private provision does improve patient care. As long as services are commissioned by the NHS in a way that avoids private sector cherry picking, it can often lead to improved health outcomes.
Re: Smiths support for trident, as a former member of the CND he is a supporter of efforts to disarm multilaterally recognising that unilateral disarmament would be pointless and leave us at risk.
In terms of his ability to clearly articulate himself in a professional manner, I only consider that a good thing.
Ultimately, he’s a working class lad made good from the valleys rather than a middle class posh boy who grew up in a 7 bedro Shropshire mansion (a la Corbyn)
Stop being so cynical and open your eyes. Consider this an opportunity to flex those new, kinder politics credentials.
He’s a liar… have you got an answer for that one?
I knew nothing about this guy.. heard him on the radio saying he was against the Iraq war. So I searched, no prejudice to see and found this article. Something the mainstream media couldn’t be bothered doing.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/owen-smith-iraq-war-working-2338066
He starts his campaign by lying to the people he wants to elect him: therefore I don’t trust him. Zilch. That’s not being cynical – its not being a mug.
The article you highlight doesn’t show him to be a liar at all. The article from 2006 says he said ‘We are making significant inroads in improving what is happening in Iraq.’ That isn’t saying he supported the war. It is simply supporting actions to improve the situation afterwards. Then he is quoted as saying that he thought ‘the tradition of the Labour Party and the tradition of left-wing engagement to remove dictators was a noble, valuable tradition, and one that in South Wales, from the Spanish Civil War onwards’. That’s not saying he supported the war either. It’s simply saying that intervention CAN be right. Most tellingly the article says ‘He didn’t know whether he would have voted against the war’. Why would he not have just said ‘ Yes it was the right thing to do ‘? Remember that this last point is not even a quotation it is simply the journalist’s interpretation. I suggest that the conversation was that he could see that intervention CAN be right but he couldn’t say he would have supported the war. So….. the article does NOT show him to be a liar. You’ll need stronger evidence than this to smear him as a liar.
He said in 2006 that his opinion at the time of the war in Iraq was that he thought the removal of dictators was noble and valuable. He also said in 2006 that he did not know whether he would have voted against the war. The context makes it pretty clear that his opinion, while undecided, was generally favourable to the war.
Now, he says that he was opposed to the war, and would have voted against it if he had been in Parliament at the time.
In case you haven’t noticed, that makes him a liar.
No the reporter says (not a quote) that Owen ‘didn’t know if he would have voted against the war ‘. This may even be part of the ‘update’ of the article made recently. Regardless of that, as it stands this is the journalist’s interpretation of a conversation so hardly conclusive evidence of Owen’s position 13 years ago.
The direct quotations made from him support my position and not yours. If you are assuming that the direct quptations made are accurate, there does not seem any reason to suppose that the journalist didn’t put the question “Would you have voted for the war in Iraq?” and received the answer “I don’t know”, and reported it indirectly. Except, of course. that allows you to wriggle out of him being a liar.
John. Without having a recording of the conversation we cannot be sure of the exact words used can we? But if he was in favour why didn’t he just say to the reporter ‘I would have voted for the war because it was the right thing to do ‘?
I did not say he was in favour, although on balance the conversation suggests that he was. I said his position was that he didn’t know. Now he says not that he didn’t know, but that he did know and that he was opposed. Which makes him a liar, as I said. He’s prepared to lie about his position then because he now perceives it as politically advantageous to do so. Not trustworthy.
As I said, there’s no quote saying ‘I don’t know if I would have voted for the war ‘ or ‘I would have voted for the war’ so your claim that he’s a liar now has no substance on this evidence of one journalist’s conversation with Owen 10 years ago and updated this month.
Then we disagree. The evidence that is available shows that he is a liar.
Firstly the article is “an unedited report of an interview published in 2006”.
Your argument that that doesn’t show him to be a liar is plain silly. It relies on the journalist
having reported something wrong. Very convenient. And also that he was against the war while saying
“I thought AT THE TIME the tradition of the Labour Party and the tradition of left-wing engagement to remove dictators was a noble, valuable tradition, and one that in South Wales, from the Spanish Civil War onwards, we have recognised and played a part in.”
It is preposterous that that is someone against the war doing the thinking!
It is completely implausible that anyone could be against the invasion in 2003 and then in 2006 speak in glowing terms about it being noble and then be against it in 2016.
He’s a liar.
As to.” Why would he not have just said ‘ Yes it was the right thing to do ‘? ”
He gave the all things to all men answer… didn’t know how he would have voted. Remarkable. I know how I would have voted. I find it hard to believe he didn’t.
But roll onto 2016 and now he does know. When Iraq was obviously a disaster – and the thing to say to court votes is that he was against it. So now… he WAS against it.
Liar.
Its a very British thing to tell lies. Often as an easy out from awkward situations.
2006… wants to be an MP… what’s the most advantageous thing to say about how you would have voted on the Iraq invasion? Easy one here… contentious subject. Its… I don’t know… don’t alienate anyone… And hey… that’s Owen Smith’s response.
Here we are in 2016… what’s the most advantageous position for Owen Smith to have taken on Iraq. This time its having been against it… And hey… that’s Owen Smith’s claim.
They’re clearly contradictory.
The thing is… this isn’t your girlfriend asking you whether you like her new hairdo… (trust me, you’ve GOT to say yes)… this is a guy asking for people’s votes in 2006 and 2016. And he’s choosing to tell lies for his own advantage. On at least one – and I suspect both occasions. To get their vote – to get elected.
That is not common everyday British lying. That is utterly contemptable. Especially considering the outrage over the invasion of Iraq of those he’s trying to decieve.
Smith also took part in a carefully planned and coordinated coup against a leader with a popular mandate, which was clearly aimed at forcing him to resign so that he could be kept off a subsequent ballot, hence denying the members and supporters of the Labour party an opportunity to reaffirm their choice. Impossible for Smith to have been ignorant of what he was doing.
He did not have to do that. Every MP made a choice whether to do that or not. Andy Burnham chose not to, for example, to his great credit.
Not trustworthy, end of story.
All this talk of a ‘coup’ makes me laugh. I mean these are over 170 democratically elected MPs (elected by the public not a self-selecting Party membership). We don’t live in some sort of Communist style state where the worker’s councils have to approve everything. MPs are absolutely entitled to have a vote of no confidence in their leader. The fact that the Dear Leader can’t even muster 40 MPs to support him speaks volumes as to his appalling inability to lead.
But we do live in a society where the leader of the Labour Party is elected by the members and supporters of the Labour Party, and not by the MPs. That being so, it’s the job of the MPs to work with the person the members and supporters have chosen. If they do not want to do that, they have the option of putting forward their own candidate or candidates for the leadership, or resigning from the party, or better still resigning their seats and fighting them again as independents.
The object of the resignations and the vote of no confidence was the seizure of power away from an elected person and the denial of an opportunity of members and supporters to choose him again. That’s a coup. I do not care if you do not like the word. That that was the object is demonstrated by the legal advice sought by his opponents in November 2015 regarding whether or not he would be permitted on to a new leadership ballot if he remained the leader. The matter remained in doubt, hence the attempt to force his resignation.
I also object to your use of the term “Dear Leader”. I don’t use such terms and I know no-one on the left who does. Your object is quite clearly to discredit supporters of Corbyn by making them sound like they come from North Korea or somewhere. It’s dishonourable. Please stop it.
Oh, and by the way, the first person to use the word “coup” was Andy Burnham, hardly an ideological soulmate of Corbyn, but an honourable man with the sense to see and admit what was happening.
Hmm nowhere in your reply to you address the point I made that ‘MPs are absolutely entitled to have a vote of no confidence in their leader.’ And just so we’re clear MPs who are members of the Shadow Cabinet are equally absolutely entitled to resign from those positions. It’s laughable that Corbyn can’t even fill those positions vacated by the resignations. No leadership as I say.
Actually, your first point is highly debatable. Diane Abbott has made the point that the vote of no confidence has no constitutional legitimacy. However, accepting it as a symbolic gesture, if the rank and file of the party want Corbyn as the leader and the MPs do not, then what? They should have the consistency to get out of the party, in that case. And since they were presumably elected as representatives of the Labour Party and not necessarily on their own no doubt excellent virtues, they should resign their seats in Parliament and fight them again as independents, and see how well they do. The trouble with your MPs is that they want their cake and eat it. They want all the convenience and privilege of belonging to a well-funded political party without accepting that they also need to follow the party’s rules and accept the majority will of the party. If they don’t like the choice of the party, they should get the hell out.
Furthermore, it is now clear that about 40 or so MPs back Jeremy Corbyn and the rest do not. That’s about the same proportion that obtained at the beginning of his leadership. In other words, a substantial majority of them have obviously had not the least intention of ever cooperating with his leadership. Their differences with him are clearly ideological, and have very little to do with his leadership qualities, which I think he has shown in full measure over the last month or so.
Now let’s see you address the following specific points I have made, which you haven’t yet.
– The direct quotations from Smith increase the likelihood that he said what the reporter says he said.
– That being so, on present evidence available he is more likely a liar than not.
– The coup was obviously carefully planned and coordinated and Smith cannot fail to have known this.
– The coup was clearly aimed at forcing Corbyn to resign.
– The reason for forcing him to resign was to keep him off a subsequent ballot.
– The reason for keeping him off a subsequent ballot was to stop the members and supporters of the Labour Party from re-affirming him as leader of the party.
– This demonstrates that Smith, like the others, is determined to ignore the wishes of a majority of the party, which means he is not trustworthy.
– Your use of language like “Dear Leader” is deliberately to ridicule people who support Corbyn as leader.
You are good at whinging that I haven’t answered your points. Now please answer mine.
I totally agree. Well said.
Since the Blairite era, many of these “democratically elected MPs” were parachuted in to reinforce central control of the LP by the inner circle. Lenin called it Democratic Centralism. In South Wales, due to it´s strong working class and LP links, we have had our fare share of these parachutists. Why should not LP members and constituents not have the right to select as well as elect their representatives ?.
News to me his professionally Welsh historian dad, former chairman of the Arts Council of Wales, considers himself working-class. His dad was a miner, sure, but there isn’t, as far as I am aware, a workingclass gene – workingclassness depends on what you do for a living, surely?
Good plug for Pfizer, though. Here’s another:
http://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/pfizer-gilead-and-more-benefit-from-q1-price-increases-wsj
Military coup in Turkey, all balls are in the air and Erd do gone is gone. He made too many mistakes during the last six month, too many unexplained events, death of Kurds and a clamp down on any opposition.
‘For reason of ‘excessive Autocracy, and terrorist incidents.’ the military plotters say But Erdo gone is not gone yet, he’s safe somewhere and the military is split, he retains much support.
he’s made peace with Israel over the Mavi Marmara murders in international waters, apparently large sums have healed wounds and he has smoothed corners with Russia during the last two weeks, not that it would please the chicken-hawks hell bent on rancour.
Re Nice. Anon has been waiting with baited breath. Is this another case of a mentally challenged character who was influenced, but not associated with IS?
Did anyone see the interview with his father who said that he was under prescribed medication for it, without it, he said, he would get into a rage and smash up everything around him. He did have a criminal record for just that, and petty theft.
Or is it a bit of both, some hidden guidance to encourage such an attack, did he run out of pills? Anon will tell us, he always knows best, as long as he keeps taking his blue pills.
Bastille day, the day the poor hung the toffs and privileged, a day that French socialism was born in anger,imho, With all the Union disputes going on in France and a boisterous electorate to tame, many man hours lost, just when France lost so gallantly to Portugal and its under performance has again been ignored by the ECB,, what can galvanise France more on Bastille day than a terror attack. But was it? Lets wait and see
Marie le Pen is laughing all the way to the polls,
Is this military coup lead? who has an interest in keeping tensions high in Turkey/Syria? Will this coup shut down IS arms supplies to Syria?
Tony Benn started off centre left and moved hard left. Denis Healey started off Communist and moved centre left. People change.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan
is a horrible person, i can’t imagine anyone shedding a tear for his imprisonment,
least of all the Syrians.
I expect the Peskie Ruskies will be clicking their heals tonight.
that was a very bad move of Erdogan giving the order to bring down the Russian aircraft ( no doubt egged on by the U.S.A.
Wasn’t Reagan listed as a potential communist in Hollywood?!
Absolutely on the nail. More Blair than Blair. Rumoured to be a bully. Right wing Blairite who, like Blair, makes out to be left wing.
The Independent helping Owen Smith fake being against the Iraq war:
“His backers believe he has a decisive advantage – in the wake of the Chilcot report – as he did not vote in favour of the Iraq War because he was not an MP when the decision to go to war was made in 2003.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-contest-jeremy-corbyn-owen-smith-to-challenge-leader-after-angela-eagle-a7137246.html
(no comments allowed)
Sorry, there are comments… I’ll see if they let me post the link…
We need to be rid of “Labour” MPs like this. We
I really think we need to hear from Owen what his policy on the NHS would be rather than assume we know this from the scant evidence you produce here. Or is the objective to rubbish any potential challenger to the Dear Leader before they even present their case? After all we can go back over all that Corbyn said about the EU for example. Wasn’t his vote to Remain a betrayal of all he stood for in the past? Or maybe we should be more mature and realise that politics is necessarily partly about re-evaluation, compromise and taking account of new situations. Until we hear from Owen we won’t be able to hear his position on the issues you have raised or his vision for Labour’s future or his guiding principles. To be fair, we need to hear this from JC too because he has been shown to shift under pressure and people like Seamus Milne have way too much influence over him. The most laughable example of how he is no longer his own man was the comment from one of the clique around him that they ‘have a duty of care ‘ for him. Wake up guys. This is NOT leadership.
Ms Eagle, 55, is currently campaigning to replace party leader Jeremy Corbyn.
The eagle has been very quiet, is she the stalking mare for Smith
or does she think she can be the top bitch?
Possibly, for both Eagle and Smith, the World is spinning too fast with Brexit, Cameron-Osborne-Gove gone,
May-Johnson-Fox-Davis-Leadsom in the ascendancy, Islamic Terror in France, Turkey coup, crashing of sterling, Russians sending
their Backfire aircraft, directly from Russia to Syria to bomb Islamic State, while the Americans get their knickers in a twist,
the media have more interesting things to write up, rather than Eagle-Smith double flops.
https://warisboring.com/russias-backfire-bomber-is-back-2618703120b7#.seqbpmhjc
Interesting. The Campaign for Labour Party Democracy says neither Smith nor Eagle can legitimately challenge Corbyn for the leadership this year, because they have missed the deadline for national officer nominations.
“In fact Angela Eagle and Owen Smith have missed the deadline for getting nominations for leader, and the rules say they can’t stand. Chapter 3, Clause III, sub-clause (2)(E) of the Labour Party rulebook 2016 requires nominations to be made by a closing date set by the NEC. The NEC decided closing dates through its Organisation Sub-committee at its 20 October 2015 meeting, and set the deadline for ‘national officers’ election nominations as 24 June. The rulebook says the leader and deputy are national officers. So it appears that Eagle and Smith missed the deadline for leader nominations by more than two weeks. Eagle was on the NEC when they set the date, so she’s got no excuse.”
I imagine that Corbyn will waive that if he has the power to do so. I wonder if they would do the same thing in his position?
http://www.clpd.org.uk/
Yes they are, unfortunately