Tonight I am appearing at a panel discussion following the screening of the long-awaited film by George Galloway, The Killings of Tony Blair. I shall have the dubious pleasure of debating with John McTernan, who has never lacked brass neck but does deserve some credit for appearing to represent the forces of darkness before what I imagine will be a very hostile audience. The other panel members are Michael Mansfield and Lauren Booth.
The film has been predictably lambasted by the mainstream media. But it does include some very essential first hand evidence – myself apart, two other British Ambassadors tell what they themselves witnessed, as do Cabinet members. Noam Chomsky adds some important perceptions. This cannot just be dismissed by cries of “Oh look! George Galloway’s in a hat!! Remember when he was on Big Brother!!” The mainstream media’s response to this film has been unanimously puerile.
The Blair-loving Guardian gave the film two stars and called it “sanctimonious”. If one cannot express moral condemnation of a man who forced through an aggressive war, directly killing hundreds of thousands and destabilising both the Middle East and communities in Europe, and who then went on to make multiple millions of pounds promoting vicious dictatorships, then are we to suspend the very idea of ethics itself?
The Guardian subscribes to the world view propounded weekly by Nick Cohen, that to appear on an Iranian government TV channel is a far greater sin than to promote a war which killed and maimed countless thousands of small children. None of the many contributors appeared in the film under a mistaken belief that George Galloway is perfect. That George (whom I first met in Dundee in 1977) is not perfect in no way detracts from the evidence stated against Tony Blair. On Iraq, George was both right and brave. I would add that I did not for one moment consider refusing to take part on the grounds that George is a unionist.
Getting cinema screenings for an independent documentary film is extremely difficult. This is what is available so far.
I assume there are plans to make it available on wider platforms later.
The Killing$ Of Tony Blair – Official Trailer from The Killing of Tony Blair – Film on Vimeo.
Has Greek PM Alexis Tsipras gone AWOL?
That is the question an 9ncreasing number of Greeks are asking themselves.
In Western Parliamentary democracies, when individual ministers are putting important (and controversial) legislation through parliament, the Prime Minister is usually present, at least at important moments, to lend support and encouragement to his ministerial colleagues in the firing line.
The Greek parliament is currently debating important legislation necessary to implement various elements of the conditionality required by the EU/IMF/ECB before the forthcoming review of how Greece is fulfilling the terms of the current memorandum.
And ministers Tsakalotas (Finance) and Katrougalos (Labour, Social Insurance, Social Solidarity) are having a rather hard time of it in the parliament.
Without, however, the comradely support in parliament of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras who – as they say in French – “brille par son absence”, preferring, it seems, to spend his time giving hour-long interviews to eunuch-like interviewers on friendly Greek TV stations and paying important visits to various Balkan capitals.
Perhaps Mr Tsipras is hoping the public will bring their wrath to bear on his ministers while his own head is firmly under the parapet?
Yet another example of the foolishness of going a-whorin’ after false gods, I’m afraid.
Is Mr Corbyn also such a false god, I wonder?
Once again you are confused.
Greece is not a parliamentary democracy. It is a colony of the EU and is ruled directly from Brussels and Frankfurt. Consequently there can be no “important legislation” for Greece to opine on.
Confused maybe but not Loony.
I suspect Ms Abbot made the usual far-left noises about private education before her own son received one.
Perhaps in the days when she was an item with up-and-coming far-lefty Mr Jeremy Corbyn?
🙂
Habbabkuk: Private education, like private healthcare, is considerably better than what is considered good enough for the general population.
Why is it considered hypocritical to point this out?
Should anyone who advocates for the average person in society necessarily have to live a very modest existence themselves, in your opinion?
I am genuinely interested in your answer.
You omitted Goldman Sachs Loony.
You notice the media never mention tide power it is the best of all worlds no waste no excuses about the the tide never came in or out today or spoiling the view it is the obvious answer to all our needs i mean an island all coast it could not be better but no mention of it why?
Nothing new under the sun, eh. And all without the EU, before the CIA was founded, no Mossad, etc, etc, etc..
From “Greek Reporter”:
“Regretfully, we are bankrupt” is one of the most famous phrases in modern Greek history and was uttered by Prime Minister Charilaos Trikoupis at the Parliament on December 10, 1893, referring to the state’s economic situation and its inability to repay its public debt.
His government went bankrupt, which led to the imposition of Greece’s international auditing. Since then, the phrase has been used to indicate failure, mostly in financial issues.
Although it is assumed that the phrase was said during a Parliament speech, that has been disputed since there is no such evidence from the House records.
However, the opposition took advantage of the situation and said that the Prime Minister had officially declared Greece’s bankruptcy on the Parliament stand. Meanwhile, the newspapers reported it as it was presented by the opposition, thus disappointing Trikoupis’ supporters.
A few decades later, in May 1932, Prime Minister Eleftherios Venizelos used a similar phrase. His government declared the country bankrupt due to its high debt to international lenders. Venizelos blamed the Asia Minor Catastrophe, which had occurred ten years before, and the global economic downturn since the Great Depression of 1929 as the main reasons for Greece’s situation, however, it was actually the accumulation of debt since the beginning of the century that led to the bankruptcy.”
Any comments? 🙂
It says it is disputed as there is no record of him having said it. Bit like you with whatever Abbott supposedly said.
Not much to discuss then, really
Whether he said it in the Parliament or not, Greece did declare bankruptcy in 1893.
And in 1932.
So nothing new under the Greek sun, eh.
Just as hypocrisy is nothing new in the Labour far-left, as represented by Ms Abbot in the case under examination.
You see, Hmmm, with the Conservatives you get what it says on the tin.
Their party believes strongly in private education and they tend to send their children to private schools.
The Labour Party strongly supports state education and is opposed to private education but many of its representatives, including those on the far-left like Ms Abbot, send their own children to private schools.
You don’t get what it says on the tin with Labour.
Nothing new under the sun, eh?
“You see, Hmmm, with the Conservatives you get what it says on the tin.”
Oh do come on with the BS.
Ted Heath? W**ker! Make that Complete W**nker.
Thatcher? Power crazy woman.
The Grey Man? Something to fo with the Carlyle Group.
Cameron? Total disaster.
Carlyle Group:
http://www.hereinreality.com/carlyle.html
The Grey Man – Carlyle Europe Chairman – Retired 2005
Come on Alan. In fairness, Major did establish the Cones Hotline.
And then there’s Heath: Likely nonce. Thatcher – good friends with an awful lot of nonces. Cameron – good friends with discredited crooks (like Green), a money-grubbing sell-out public school duffer who never had a proper job in his life, and bounced us out of the EU with his arrogance and incompetence. And that’s just the start of it.
What else do we know about the Carlyle Group, Habbakook?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/mar/30/theobserver.observerbusiness7
“The Government is poised to privatise seven key military training schools in a move that critics fear will compromise the capability of Britain’s armed forces.
Schools to be privatised include SLIP, the Security, Languages, Intelligence and Photography college – otherwise known as the school for British spies. Qinetiq, in which secretive US venture capital firm Carlyle Group has a 33 per cent stake, is one of eight firms that have registered interest in SLIP. Others include a consortium of BAE, Vospers and Carillion, and one featuring Babcock, Atkins and Mowlem.”
Oh look, The Carlyle Group is mentioned again, the same group that the Conservative Grey Man was head of.
“Stop Everything Bad Now”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kK-TDfempwY
If you think Corbyn, leave alone the very moderate Abbott, are far left you have led a very sheltered life. Try reading the odd book or two.
I prefer not to read “odd” books. It is bad enough having to read links to (decidedly very) odd websites and blogs, thank you very much.
“Nothing new under the sun, eh?”
Of course not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXk–eL5-kQ
More confusion from Habbabkuk.
There have been a number of Labour Administrations in the post war period. Anyone of those administrations could have legislated private education into oblivion. That they did not do so indicates that they are not opposed to private education in any meaningful sense.
You, as always, a long way behind the curve. No mainstream British political party has the remotest interest in education (as that word is normally understood). Rather they share a common obsession of using the concept and institutions of education to leverage yet more debt into the system.
With your level of understanding I do hope no-one spent too much money on what would surely have been a futile attempt to impart knowledge to you.
Loony
“..they are not opposed to private education in any meaningful sense.”
________________
Exactly, Loony. They talk about it but do nothing.
Of course, a good number of the leading lights of the two Atlee ministries were privately educated themselves.
As was, inter alia, Mr Anthony Crosland of the Wilson and Callaghan ministries , instrumental in destroying the (state) grammar schools.
“Nothing new under the sun, eh. And all without the EU, before the CIA was founded, no Mossad, etc, etc, etc..”
What about the O.S.S.?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Strategic_Services
The O.S.S., Alan?
In 1893 and 1932 (the dates of the previous Greek state bankruptcies)?
I think not.
So nothing to discuss. Lack of evidence is your stock in trade. Your quote about Tories a prime example. Public school educated, by any chance?
What’s the latest on Seumas Milne, guys?
Is he still on leave of absence from The Guardian as Mr Corbyn’s chief spin doctor?
That’s easy, Habbakook, you just go to Wikipedia and type in “Seumas Milne”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seumas_Milne
That gives you a start and you go on from there. You’ll get the hang of the Information Highway one day, perhaps, Habbakook.
On the other hand, you could just stop playing silly buggers and tell us what it is about Seumas Milne that is rattling your little cage.
Sew a thread through a thread Alan, then, by pulling both ends together the original thread becomes meaningless, trivial and pointless, thankfully here the gems are substantial, useful and survive.
Alan, Mark
Did I touch a raw nerve there?
No! What is the latest on Seumas Milne? Has he been rushed to hospital, died, got married, got divorced? You must know seeing as you brought him up?
Hang on; maybe the two of you have been joined in matrimony? I’m sure you made a lovely bride.
“You’ll get the hang of the Information Highway one day, perhaps, Habbakook.”
I doubt it. Hab and Jim’s favourite term of abuse is “conspiraloon” and I’ve just realised what this means – namely, one who actually takes the trouble to find things out and who is therefore the sworn enemy of bullshitters everywhere. And a “bullshitter” can be defined as one who blandly states unsubstantiated guff and tries to cover his tracks by emotional bombast.
Priceless!
Down to the personal insults now, Habbakook? That is scraping the barrel, Stupido.
http://www.france24.com/en/20160728-france-edf-approves-hinkley-point-nuclear-reactor
Several days have now elapsed, yet still the mouth-piece of France does not accept the may day delay.
“You see, Hmmm, with the Conservatives you get what it says on the tin…”
No you don’t, Habbab. What the Tories have been saying for decades now is that they believe in ‘equality of opportunity’ for all children. As to Public Schools they have tended to defend them on the grounds of freedom of choice, family tradition and, in some cases, the peculiar exigencies of life at the top ( a chap never knows when he’ll be packed off to Quetta…) But they have always claimed that, in educational terms the State schools ought to be able to offer an education just as good, and in some cases much better.
What we have seen since Thatcher and her boy Blair, is a deliberate favouring of Public Schools and numerous actions against State schools. It is this which has led to the astonishing revival of private education.
The truth is that most of the best Public Schools ought to be returned to the communities from which they were purloined centuries ago. They were generally set up to provide free or highly subsidised education to poor pupils whose parents could not afford tutors but whose talents ought to be developed for the good of the nation. It is upon that basis that they have traditionally enjoyed the enormous financial benefits of charitable status, which has subsidised them in their anti-social work of replacing the Ruling Class with new generations equally evil.
Clearly the Tories are far more hypocritical than Ms Abbott who, presumably, wishes that State education was just as good as the, highly subsidised private option, and, in the meantime, does what she feels is best for her kids.
It is not what I did but then my kids aren’t black and don’t have to deal with the racism that is endemic in society: black boys are badly treated by the police. Maybe Diane was trying to protect hers.
Fully accept that Ms Abbott was doing what she thought was best for her son (only one “kid”, Bevin – not “kids” . Please post accurately). Good for her – as I have said before.
Are things on the up at last in France?
Air France flights returned to near normal levels on Tuesday as the seven-day strike by air stewards drew to a close;
however unions have raised the prospect of further industrial actions as early as next week?
http://www.france24.com/en/20160802-air-france-strike-nears-normal-levels-stewards-business-travel
Could one of you clever people explain how
The French State of emergency, actually works.
http://www.france24.com/en/20151115-what-does-france-state-emergency-mean
It has been running for “quite” a time now, you would have thought that during a state of emergency, it would be “unhelpful” to have air traffic controllers, airline staff, ferry staff, rail staff, public servants and so forth on strike.
So specifically does the French State of Emergency give the government the option of banning utility strikes?
Perhaps not, Michael.
Which would seem to make nonsense of claims (are you awake and listening, Rob?) that France is sliding into becoming a police state, wouldn’t it.
What’s this about our last Conservative PM, and in the Daily Mail too?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3718981/The-stench-grows-honours-Tainted-gongs-nod-without-scrutiny-Cameron-set-send-cronies-Lords-aide-says-paying-debts.html
And several other articles in there too. Even his wife’s stylist gets a gong.
Was Dodgy Dave, the heir to Blair, doing his best for his mates?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3719037/Fixer-ran-Sam-Cam-s-life-didn-t-care-offended-Mrs-Cameron-completely-relied-stylist.html
The dissolution of Yugoslavia was triggered by catholic Slovenia seeking independence and being recognised by Germany due to catholic, Bavarian, Christian Social Union being in government in Berlin. This led to the race for land by all the different component parts of Yugoslavia. A natural reaction to be expected but complicated by the fact (exaggeration here) that the different nationalities/religions were living in each others mini-states!
The West and Russia should have sought a more peaceful transition, but Blair and associates took the opportunity to take sides against Russia and promote the criminal neo-con ‘humanitarian intervention to save lives’, a double-speak cover story used to promote later destructive interventions.
The bombing of Serbia to force a withdrawal from Kosovo followed Milosevic’s refusal to submit to demands for unconditional surrender. It was resolved when Blair and associates agreed a diplomatic solution not to invade Serbia if they withdrew from Kosovo.
And when Blair received a staged hero’s welcome in Kosovo and by the neo-cons (just as Cameron later did in Libya) this sealed his world view of how to make money by siding with the neo-cons on behalf of Israel/Industrial Military and Financial complex.
Agree.
The State of Serbia was initiated to be a bulwark to protect Christian Europe against Islamification from Turkey.
Serbia was stated in Kosovo.
Serbia was started in Kosovo
Having just stated that Serbia was started in Kosovo, I am now not so sure, far more complex than i thought i had understood.
Sorry.
The Yugoslav wars and the background to them were certainly more complex than our friend “Dave” (above) makes out in his mish-mash of a post.
What you mean is that the Battle of Kosovo, in the late C14th, while a defeat for the Christian forces, stopped the advance into the Balkans of the Ottoman Turks. It is celebrated by Serbians as a national day. Kosovo has special significance for Serbs- our allies in two world wars against Germany (and Croatians)- which is one reason why the traitor Blair, whose hatred of the UK extends even to its ancient allies, took such delight in putting it to the Albanian wahhabi sword.
Clinton went along because the family operates on the basis that “no American politician ever lost popular support by killing foreigners.” Indeed while killing foreigners Presidents can get away not only with murder but publicly financed oral sex.
If memory serves, Bill Clinton’s Air Force was bombing Iraq in Operation Desert Fox (I wonder who chose the Rommel-reminiscent name) simultaneously with the House of Representatives voting to impeach him over the Monica scandal. It was surreal.
By the way, the British contribution amounted to 15% of the air sorties in Desert Fox.
What this, Habba (or Jim) about you being able to write large cheques and then receive a knighthood or even a seat in the Lords from a Conservative PM?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/01/honouring-my-friends-from-no-10-is-just-wrong/
It must be true; it’s in the Torygraph.
The M&S pensioners must be praying daily to Rose who saved them from a green (Cameron appointed tory government efficiency czar!!!) pension raider. greens knighthood should be transferred to Rose.
A good idea but perhaps too much of a good thing?
Stuart Rose is already a peer of the realm – created Baron Rose of Monewden in Sept. 2014.
CHINA
will not tolerate “unwanted accusations” about its investments in the UK after the delay of the Hinkley nuclear power project,
the country’s state-run news agency has said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36943792
Let them keep their tainted money.
We have lived without the assistance of the Chinese and their money, if they do not like how democracy
works in the United Kingdom, STAY OUT.
If democracy (or honest accountancy) worked in the UK, it’s debatable whether the project would have been considered in the first place. Unfortunately this is how megafinance and governments with their backs to the fiscal wall work…in the UK.
They are trying to recycle our exports into imports,what are they going to do with all these pound notes?
The project is a disaster,not waiting, but timed to happen.
The Bush family’s long association with the CIA is discussed in Russ Baker’s book “Family of Secrets”.
“Association” may mean a lot of things but it certainly does not mean that Bush senior was a career CIA operative.
Unlike President/PM/President Putin with the KGB.
Bush Snr was the Director of the CIA! He evidently had some involvement.
Habba raises an interesting question though. Does the CIA gig, Director no less, ever get given to ‘outsiders’, ie, men (always men) who aren’t life-long CIA operatives? I would expect that, when the President gets round to appointing the Director, he chooses from a carefully screened shortlist, in which all candidates have either close associations with, or are actual operatives of, the CIA. But, I don’t know that for a fact, of course.
There are 2 scenarios. The Director is a known operative. Or, he is somewhat of an outsider, perhaps military (Petraeus), or civilian-politician (Bush). If he is an outsider, the post ‘Director’ seems somewhat of a ‘symbolic’ post, because an outsider won’t have a clue what actually goes on in the CIA: MK Ultra, assassinations (internal and external), drug running, people trafficking (allegedly), arms dealing (definitely), etc etc. If they don’t have a clue, we can’t expect them to be able to clean-up the CIA, even if they were minded. If they are operatives, of course, then they will have been involved in one, or all, of the above activities, and probably won’t be minded to make any reforms, because they know exactly what will happen to them. And it won’t be good things.
Petraeus, of course, ran death squads in Iraq, before becoming Director. It’s fairly safe to say that ‘death squad’ David wasn’t exactly burdened with ethical qualms to begin with. Perhaps this is the main criterion: must be a psychopath, or similar.
Only a Stupido doesn’t know when he is backing the wrong horse Habbakook
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bush_Center_for_Intelligence
“The dissolution of Yugoslavia was triggered by catholic Slovenia seeking independence and being recognised by Germany due to catholic, Bavarian, Christian Social Union being in government in Berlin.”
_______________________
After a referendum in Slovenia :
“An independence referendum was held in the Republic of Slovenia on 23 December 1990.[1] Both the ruling centre-right coalition and the left-wing opposition supported the referendum and called on voters to support Slovenian independence.
The voters were asked the question: “Should the Republic of Slovenia become an independent and sovereign state?” (Slovene: Ali naj Republika Slovenija postane samostojna in neodvisna država?).[2] The Slovenian Parliament set a threshold for the validity of the plebiscite at 50% and one of all electors (the absolute majority).[3][4]
Results
On 26 December the results of the referendum were officially proclaimed by France Bučar in the Assembly. 88.5% of all electors (94.8% of those participating) had voted in favour of independence, therefore exceeding the threshold.[5] 4.0% had voted against independence, while 0.9% had cast invalid ballots, and 0.1% had returned their ballots unused.[6] 6.5% of electors did not participate in the elections.[5]
Bučar’s announcement obliged the Slovenian authorities to declare the independence of the country within six months. On 25 June 1991 the Basic Constitutional Charter on the Sovereignty and Independence of the Republic of Slovenia was passed and independence was declared the following day.”
Pretty overwhelming, I’d say.
International recognition of the state came after and not before that result.
No dastardly conspiracy by jackbooted CSU politicians or black-cowled Vatican priests I’m afraid 🙂
It is heartening to see that you have an interest in referendums.
There was a more recent referendum in Crimea in 2014. A referendum in which over 90% of votes were in favor of Crimean reunification with Russia.
Crimea was a constituent part of Russia between 1783 and 1921. It was an autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic between 1921 and 1945 (i.e. to all intents and purposes a part of Russia). Between 1945 and 1954 it was an Oblast of Russia (i.e. part of Russia). Between 1954 and 1991 it was an Oblast of Ukraine within the USSR (to all intents and purposes a part of Russia). Between 1991 and 2014 it became the autonomous republic of Crimea within an independent Ukraine.
In a 233 year period there was only a 23 year time period where Crimea was not effectively a part of Russia. It is arguable that this disassociation from Russia only ever occurred due to the unplanned collapse of the USSR.
Despite this history the EU immediately declared the referendum and the consequent absorption of the the Crimea into Russia to be illegal.
An intelligent person would compare and contrast the Crimea process with the fracturing of Yugoslavia and in particular the absence of any due process at all that led to the creation of Kosovo.
A referendum with Russian troops on the premises.
Not quite the same as the 1990 Slovenian referendum, surely?
“An intelligent person would compare and contrast the Crimea process with the fracturing of Yugoslavia”
___________________
Well, Loony, despite your doubts I’m an intelligent person – a highly intelligent person, even – and my verdict is in favour of the Slovenian referendum,
Sorry about that! 🙂
A highly intelligent person would understand that there were bound to be Russian troops on the ground in Crimea due to an internationally recognized treaty as between Russia and Ukraine which specifically contemplated a Russian military presence in the Crimea.
On your (absence) of logic you may as well declare all German elections since 1945 void due to the presence of US troops on the ground in Germany.
For the benefit of readers who may not be as “highly intelligent” as you why don’t you set out the main terms of the referendum that led to the independence of Kosovo.
A miltary presence limited by Treaty to the Russian bases, Loony.
Of course, the state known as Yugoslavia was an artifical hodge-podge state from the beginning, as two of its three official titles would suggest:
1918 – 1929 : the Kingdom of Serbs, Coats and Slovenes
1945 – 1992 : the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
One can as little blame the Slovenes and Croats for wanting their own states than many of the Scots and Catalans for wanting theirs.
I’m sure all those on here who support Scottish and Catalan independence (they are legion!) would agree with me.
Wouldn’t they? 🙂
Speaking of Yugoslavia i have a conspiracy theory that may interest you.
Imagine one of the best known and most recognizable British TV presenters being executed on her own doorstep in broad daylight in leafy west London. Imagine there are no witnesses and no forensic evidence of any kind providing a clue as to the identity of the perpetrator of this crime.
The conspiracy theory is that this crime was committed by a man with such severe learning difficulties that often he defecated in his bedroom as opposed to the bathroom without realizing the difference. There is no shortage of other evidence corroborating that this man had severe mental cognitive issues. A conspiracy theorist would immediately alight upon this person as being the most obvious assassin. What kind of person could possibly give credence to such an outlandish and far fetched story? Well here is a clue, the answer is the entire British judicial system who clung to this fantasy for many years. So many years that the brutal shocking tragedy of this crime faded from public memory, at which point they acknowledged that it all a mistake.
Your knowledge of Yugoslavia may be sufficient for you to recall that while the US were busy bombing the Chinese Embassy the British thought it would be a jolly jape to bomb the main TV studios in Belgrade.
Humanitarian love bombs rained down on Serb TV studios killing a number of well known and well liked (in Serbia) public entertainment figures. This event angered a number of people in Serbia some of whom swore revenge. Shortly thereafter possibly the most famous British TV presenter of her era was executed in cold blood.
Only a fool would draw any conclusions from this chain of events and the British are no-ones fool and so promptly arrested the biggest fool they could find in all of old London Town.
So the killing of the British TV presenter was Serbian revenge?
Talk me through the connection between that hypothesis and any of the other points people ha’ve been teasing out.
The only one I can spot – do forgive me! – is that there were a number of extremely nasty people in Belgrade other than Mr Milosevic……
As I said, only a fool would draw any conclusions from the chain of events described. And what do you do? You seem to like Latin, so try this Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
But what was the point you were trying to make? Or is it just my fatal magnetism? 🙂
State crimes are often set up in such a way that the state, by blaming a lone nut, can exonerate itself. Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, James Earl Ray, van der Lubbe, and so on.
Yes as I said the international recognition of Slovenia by Germany triggered the free for all. Its unlikely that conflict could have been avoided due to the complexity of the situation, such as everyone living in everyone else’s mini-states, but there could have been a more helpful approach from the West. Instead they chose to turn it into a proxy war with Russia and a test bed for their double speak called ‘humanitarian interventionism’ that provided the cover story for the destruction Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, threats to obliterate Iran, coups in Ukraine and sanctions on Russia on behalf of neo-con/Military, Industrial and Financial complex dominating USA.
International recognition triggered nothing. This is because it came after the result of the Slovenian referendum, not before.
BTW, Croatia formally declared its independence on the same day as Slovenia. No much of a free for all on that score then.
I shall ignore your usual ravings about the US 🙂
Habba muttered “I shall ignore your usual ravings about the US”
No! Don’t! As it happens 6th August is Hiroshima Day when we should remember how the cold hearted US government dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima after provoking Japan into a war.
I shall attend the Lantern Festival at the Peace Pagoda and pray that Nemesis, the Goddess of Divine Retribution brings the Yanks what they truly deserve.
It was the FIRST NULABOUR WAR
Jeremy Corbyn in 2004 had dismissed Serbian war crimes in Kosovo as a fabrication
by Toplica | Jun 29, 2016
http://www.ukalbanians.net/jeremy-corbyn-in-2004-had-dismissed-serbian-war-crimes-in-kosovo-as-a-fabrication/
The Yugoslav wars and the background to them were certainly more complex than our friend “Dave” (above) makes out
[email protected]– they certainly were; however the argument you and Res Diss put forward that, despite the findings in the Karadzic case (in which Milosevic, in the small print, was cleared of the charges relating to Bosnia), he was still a war criminal in respect of JNA actions in Kosovo and Croatia, is a weak one.
As you may be aware, the original ICTY indictment against Milosevic was issued in May 1999, was silent on his conduct in relation to Croatia & Bosnia in 1991-95, related only to his actions in Kosovo, and was seen by many at the time as a fig leaf justification for the then ongoing NATO bombing campaign- which had no UN mandate. The initial indictment was also issued when the western MSM was full of horror stories about JNA atrocities (the burning of hundreds of bodies in the Trepca mines complex, for example) which were subsequently found to be untrue.
The charges in relation to Croatia and Bosnia were only added later, to justify the continued detention of Milosevic at The Hague, and in the hope that ‘something might stick’ against this alleged ‘new Hitler’. They centred on the dubious concept that Milosevic and Serb irregulars in both countries were engaged in a ‘joint criminal enterprise’ to create an ethnically homogenous Greater Serbia- a claim rubbished in respect of Milosevic and Bosnia by the Karadzic judgement, and similarly tenuous in relation to Croatia.
Old Mark
OK, you’ve convinced me.
Slobodan was a great guy : a great Yugoslav patriot, nothing but love and goodwiill in his heart, a convinced democratic and respecter of the people’s will, nothing to do with nasty Mr Karadzic and totally unaware of what the Yugoslav (for which read Serb) army was up to. Especially fond of Kosovar Albanians to boot ad very fond of Dobrovnik, Mostar and many other nice places in the SFRY
In summary, a much misunderstood man and obviously the victim of evil Western machinations utimately aimed at Mr Gorbachev’s and Mr Yeltsin’s Russia.
And then I woke up…..
Habba- Milosevic was none of the things you sarcastically attribute to him here. He was (like Tudjman and Izetbegovic, his counterparts in 90s Croatia & Bosnia respectively) a stereotypical Balkan ‘strong man’ rather in the mould of Enver Hoxtha or Todor Zhivkov- a thug whose type prospered under post war communist rule in that region. That didn’t however make him the ‘new Hitler’ , as western propaganda claimed at the time of the NATO bombing campaign, and the original ICTY indictment, in Spring 1999.
You also query why I questioned the strength of the ICTY indictment of ‘joint criminal enterprise’ against Milosevic re the Croatian conflict. FYI a summary of the Croatia related charges are here-
http://www.hrw.org/news/2001/10/29/milosevic-important-new-charges-croatia
In relation to the Vukovar charges, a number of JNA officers up to the level of colonel were indeed found guilty in 2007 of ‘aiding and abetting’ the irregulars who carried out the atrocities mentioned above. There was no conclusive evidence of complicity higher up the military or political food chain proved in these ICTY trials, which concluded a year after Milosevic’s death- and the judgments were not well received in Croatia at the time because of this (it weakened Croatia’s case against Serbia of the charge of genocide in that conflict- which it eventually lost in 2015).
As for Milosevic’s culpability in the JNA attack on Dubrovnik, the evidence for that is even more tenuous, as Montenegrin, not Serb, elements of the JNA took the lead in that operation.
No of course Milosevic was such a weak leader that he knew nothing about what was going on in Vukovar or Dubrovnik (and he certainly did nothing to punish those responsible), or of the ethnic cleansing that his supporters indulged in to help create Slobo’s “Greater Serbia”. You claims are almost as laughable of Bevin’s claim about Blair putting Kosovo to the Albanian Wahabbi sword.
Slobodan was a great guy : a great Yugoslav patriot, nothing but love and goodwiill in his heart, a convinced democratic and respecter of the people’s will, nothing to do with nasty Mr Karadzic and totally unaware of what the Yugoslav (for which read Serb) army was up to. Especially fond of Kosovar Albanians to boot ad very fond of Dobrovnik, Mostar and many other nice places in the SFRY
In summary, a much misunderstood man and obviously the victim of evil Western machinations utimately aimed at Mr Gorbachev’s and Mr Yeltsin’s Russia.
A bit like Golda Meir, eh? What was it called now? “The Samson Option”.
http://www.carolmoore.net/nuclearwar/israelithreats.html
“… ‘joint criminal enterprise’ to create an ethnically homogenous Greater Serbia- a claim rubbished in respect of Milosevic and Bosnia by the Karadzic judgement, and similarly tenuous in relation to Croatia.”
__________________
On what do you base the last seven words, Old Mark?
Not on the Karadzic appeal verdict, I imagine?
Another hair splitting debate about a dark hour in NATO’s history.
Fact remains that the best and most skilful tactician and leader, Joseph Bros Tito had foreseen this scenario, as did NATO, who had a whole office just anticipating the event of Tito’s death.
NATO helped the disintegration of the former Yugoslavia and its failure to protect the people of Sarajevo, those incarcerated, tortured and killed in Srebrenisca, Jasenovac, and Omarska, all with the support of their various factional leaders, whilst bombing Kosovo from high above, all that was the first nail in the coffin NATO now so dearly deserves.
Despite having a policy for the disintegration of the Balkans and Yugoslavia, the west stumbled, they even knew and studied Tito’s reasoning and his fair, but strictly enforced Parliamentary order, what he said and predicted would happen after his demise, still NATO could not protect anyone very effectively, nor could diplomacy.
Still some very opportune and ruthless people such as MS Albright did very well out of that conflict, so did Joscka Fischer.
I have a couple of questions which I hope the Yugoslavia experts on here might be able to answer,
Here goes.
1/. Was it Mr Slobodan Milosevic who was called the “last dictator in Europe” or am I getting him mixed up with someone else?
2/. Where did the Bosnian Serbs under the inspired leadership of Dr Radovan Karadzic get their ordinance from? And who armed Serbia?
3/. Who extradited Mr Slobodan Karadzic to The Hague. Rumour has it that it was the new, democratically elected Serbian government after the fall of Mr Milosevic but that may, of course, be another dastardly lie.
Feel free to share out the answers, the more the merrier as I always say.
I can help you with your first question.
Anyone can call anyone else, or even themselves, anything they want. The mere stating of something (for example “I am a highly intelligent person”) does not of itself make that statement true.
Milosevic may well have been called the “last dictator in Europe” However such a description does not apply to Milosevic alone. According to Wikipedia
” Lukashenko’s relationship with the EU has been strained, in part by choice and in part by his policies towards domestic opponents. Lukashenko’s repression of opponents caused him to be called “Europe’s last dictator” and resulted in the EU imposing visa sanctions on him and a range of Belarusian officials..”
And the other two, Loony?
(admittedly, answers would require knowledge and that’s not your strong point, is it…)
You’re absolutely right, I forgot Lukashenko (although he has on occasion been mentioned on here – favorably, of course).
How clever of you to have the names of dictators at your fingertips, Loony!
So perhaps Slobodan was Europe’s second- last dictator.
” Was it Mr Slobodan Milosevic who was called the “last dictator in Europe” or am I getting him mixed up with someone else?”
You are, as usual, making an assertion founded on another assertion by another person, whose name you don’t supply. An intelligent person would realise how idiotic it is, simultaneously to claim to be of superior intelligence and to make such basic errors in logic.
You can be a one line comic or a serious commentator. It is about time that you made a decision on what you want to be, when you grow up.
Yes Slovenia and Croatia both catholic and both had foreknowledge of German support, which fast tracked reckless international recognition (similar but not as reckless as that given to Kosovo by US/UK) a process guaranteed to lead to conflict with Serbia with all component parts of Yugoslavia seeking advantage.
Ah, now it’s no longer “recognition” but “foreknowledge”.
Nice one!
Blair assisted with starting a war which led to consequential mass killings in Iraq. That was then.
Now – what are the implications with choices between “Lying Hillary” and “The Donald”:-
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/07/29/the-democratic-party-no-longer-exists/
Read his article “The democratic party no longer exists” for some frightening answers.
Its clear a revived khazar kingdom is resurgent in Palestine only a kagan remains to be anointed, and like before its causing murder and mayhem all over. Right in the US too !!
In the meantime they are fooling the real hebrews about a mashiach imminence, habba and kin are searching everywhere as we speak, bwahahahahaha !! Nobody is able to convince the devils He was converting water into wine 2,000 years ago.
Oh no not Paul Craig Roberts. A vampires fear of sunlight is as of nothing compared to the visceral fear and loathing of Paul Craig Roberts.
Why there is one commentator who alleges (without evidence naturally) that Paul Craig Roberts is, or was, a supporter of Pol Pot. Dare to mention that Mr. Pot was in fact supported by the British and cite Hansard as evidence and you will be met either by a wall of silence or a barrage of ad hominem attacks.
Still I suppose it takes peoples minds off of the nuclear war that their elected leaders seem determined to incite on behalf of the people they serve. .
Loony,
Roberts had this to say:-
” Pol Pot is regarded in the West as some crazed figure who emptied entire cities and turned the inhabitants into piles of bones and skulls. He is seen as a madman, but he was just a good Marxist. He understood that if he left the elites and the bureaucracies that served them in place, his revolution was history. The elites would use their media and Washington’s money to overturn the people’s revolution.
The complete and total inability of Washington to accept democratic outcomes in Latin America
means that unless Latin America has a Lenin or Pol Pot in its future, Latin America can forget about existing independently of Washington’s control and exploitation by US corporations. America’s Latin American colony will continue to be ruled by Washington, Wall Street, and American corporate interests. Latin American governments will represent Washington, not the peoples of Latin America.
In the online journal, Strategic Culture Foundation, Nil Nikandrov provides a view of how Washington operates against those who do not accept Washington’s control: http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2016/04/04/the-us-media-war-against-leaders-latin-america-i.html”
So – in real power terms – the leftist/reformer(s) either brutally hold/s on to power – or – Washington brutally and/or systematically undermines or covertly overthrows. Between the devil and the deep blue sea he seems to be saying ( maybe Hugo Chavez would agree?).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36951783
A helicopter has dropped barrels suspected to contain chlorine gas on a town in northern Syria, a doctor and rescuers have said.
About 30 people were affected by the attack, which took place in Saraqeb in Idlib province. It is not clear who was responsible.
Both sides in Syria’s civil war have been accused of, and denied, using chemical agents.
On Monday, a Russian military helicopter was shot down near Saraqeb.
Yeah right, 30 people when they could drop something even deadlier that would kill 300 at least. Its the presstitutes in the Beeb at it again.
@ Loony August 2, 2016 at 13:58
‘Speaking of Yugoslavia i have a conspiracy theory that may interest you…..’
There is a competing theory. once which I find more credible:
‘Murdered presenter tried to expose pedophile culture within BBC but ‘No one wanted to know’:
https://www.sott.net/article/282846-Murdered-presenter-tried-to-expose-pedophile-culture-within-BBC-but-No-one-wanted-to-know
Regarding Greece, which was discussed a bit above by various commenters, here is some useful info, which demonstrates to those who drape themselves in the flag the truth of one of the French names for us, ‘Perfide Albion’: ‘Athens 1944: Britain’s dirty secret’:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/30/athens-1944-britains-dirty-secret
Then, of course, there was the CIA/NATO Gladio coup in Greece in 1967. In both instances, far-right Nazis or their sympathizers were installed in power by the West – how they just ‘love’ installing Nazis!
Then of course, the US in ‘Paperclip’ took large numbers of Germans, including some of the worst Nazi war criminals (like ‘Dr.’ Mengele), into the states; he headed up their MK-ULTRA mind control project.
And of course the Vatican assisted in saving many Nazis’ bacon, with their funding and Vatican passports of the ‘Rat Run’ to Latin America. Like the West, the Vatican just LOVES war criminals (notice how they welcomed Bliar into the fold!).
PB: “Then of course, the US in ‘Paperclip’ took large numbers of Germans, including some of the worst Nazi war criminals (like ‘Dr.’ Mengele), into the states; he headed up their MK-ULTRA mind control project.”
What’s your evidence for this? I understood that he changed his identity and fled to South America.
My original evidence was from Cathy O’Brien’s and Mark Phillips’ books, ‘TranceFormation of America’ and ‘Access Denied: For Reasons of National Security’. As you’re not likely to read the books, I did a quick search and came up with the following:
JOSEF MENGELE, DR. GREEN, AND THE AMERICAN MIND CONTROL NETWORK:
http://www.angelfire.com/ut/branton/green.html
Josef Mengele Part of CIA’s Trauma Brainwashing:
http://henrymakow.com/mk-ultra_slave_recalls_torture.html
Monarch/MK-ULTRA:
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_mindcon02.htm
Also, here’s a good video of Cathy and Mark:
Cathy O’Brien: Ex-Illuminati Mind Control Victim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvEBmEo4IA0
I have total confidence in the pair, and recommend watching above video (and reading the books – ‘Access’ is the best) to all and sundry.
PB: Thanks for that. Frankly, it wouldn’t surprise me if the Yanks employed the services of proven Nazis, but didn’t want to advertise the fact, laying down a cover story instead. Appreciate the links, will check them in due course.
I wouldn’t bother if I were you, Glenn.
Note that the links are all – as you would suspect from Paul Barbara – about “American mind control”.
Note also the reference to the “Illuminati” in the caption to his YouTube link…..
The CIA’s MK-ULTRA mind control program is rather well known. I remember what a scandal there was when documents proving its existence surfaced in congressional hearings in the 1970s.
There is no doubt that the US did employ former Nazis and collaborators both in the States, employing them as experts in weaponry, for example. And, much more routinely in Europe.
Annie Jacobsen’s “Operation Paperclip” is a good introduction. It was published in 2014.
Habbabkuk might want to look into it too: he must be one of a very tiny minority who are unaware of the employment of Nazis after the war. Even more scandalous was the massive employment of War criminals from Japan by the US government.
South Korea, for example, was dominated (to some extent still is) by collaborators with the Japanese empire: they formed the backbone of the resistance to the revolution in South Korea, where civil strife gave rise to the Korean War.
And lets not forget the Stasi’s employment of former Nazis
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/08/stas-a23.html
Paul Barbara, Lysias,
Yes, the CIA’s Project MKUltra mind control program is well known and, according to Wikipedia, was officially halted in 1973.
But why would the CIA halt the program, rather than, perhaps, simply taking it underground? The US Supreme Court noted, MKUltra was concerned with “the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior.”
Surely, it would be of great benefit these days, in that controlled victims could be made to carry out any kind of action that would suit the agenda – and the CIA now have full use of secret black sites and approved torture methods for the necessary traumatisation of victims.
In addition, a little research reveals that at least some of the perpetrators of attacks in the West have been previously accessed by the security services: eg, Adebalejo in the Woolwich attack; Tsarnaev in the Boston bombings; in the Sydney cafe shootings; in the Charlie Hebdo attacks; in the Paris bombings at the Bataclan; and ‘Jihadi John’.
Finally, here’s a quote from Wikipedia with which all the above may be easily dismissed by anyone so inclined: “MKUltra plays a part in many conspiracy theories due to its nature and the destruction of most records”.
It shouldn’t surprise you at all. Ever heard of Von Braun?
The Yanks definitely employed proven Nazis. It was called “Operation Paper-clip”. Habbakook denies this, of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubertus_Strughold
“The Father of Space Medicine” … he served as chief of Aeromedical Research for the German Luftwaffe, holding this position throughout World War II. In 1947 he was brought to the United States as part of Operation Paperclip and held a series of high-ranking medical positions in both the US Air Force and NASA.
In October 1942, Strughold and Hippke attended a medical conference in Nuremberg at which SS physician Sigmund Rascher delivered a presentation outlining various medical experiments he had conducted, in conjunction with the Luftwaffe, in which prisoners from the Dachau concentration camp were used as human test subjects. These experiments included physiological tests during which camp inmates were immersed in freezing water, placed in air pressure chambers and made to endure invasive surgical procedures without anesthetic. Many of the inmates forced to participate died as a result.[2]
TERROR IN FRANCE
Dozens of FRENCH towns to arm local police as mayor says non-lethal weapons not enough
https://www.rt.com/news/354344-french-mayors-arm-police/
The terrorist attack in Nice which killed 84 people when a truck plowed through crowds celebrating Bastille Day has prompted several French mayors to arm local police. Non-lethal weapons are incapable of stopping a “crazed attacker,” one mayor said.
“Along the Promenade des Anglais [in Nice] the municipal police and the national police had the same mission – to stop a crazed vehicle or murderer,” said Francois Bayrou, the mayor of Pau.
“Our weapons against incivility, such as the Taser or the flash-ball, are obviously worthless in stopping a vehicle,” he added, according to franceinfo.fr.
The Pau mayor has decided to give guns to some 35 municipal police officers. Bayrou noted that 75 percent of those who will be given the arms “were either in the police or in the national police or in the army, and are therefore trained in handling the weapons.” All the officers are required to undergo 57 hours of training to obtain authorization.
The mayors of the small French towns of Belfort and Thonon-les-Bains also earlier decided to allow local law enforcers to carry guns – joining municipal police officers in the towns of Romilly-sur-Seine, Saint-Quentin and Puy-en-Velay, who were previously authorized to carry arms, BFM reported.
The law allows for the municipal police in France to carry arms, but the decision has to be taken individually by each mayor. The mayors of Nantes and Besancon have decided against arming local police.
As things stand, of the approximately 20,000 municipal French police, “fewer than half are armed,” Cedric Michel, the national president of the municipal police defence union (SDPM), told Le Figaro last month.
In June, France relaxed gun rules for its police force, allowing officers to carry firearms while off-duty. The policy change came just days after a police couple was murdered by a jihadist in a Paris suburb.
France is currently under a state of emergency, first declared by President Francois Hollande hours after the Paris attacks in November last year. It was renewed for the fourth time following the Nice attack last month.
Human Rights Watch has slammed the French parliament’s decision to prolong the country’s state of emergency for six months, saying the move “undermines human rights and the rule of law.”
Saint-Quentin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Saint-Quentin-Fallavier_attack
A terrorist attack took place on 26 June 2015 in Saint-Quentin-Fallavier, near Lyon, France, when a French Muslim of North African descent, Yassine Salhi, decapitated his employer Hervé Cornara and drove his van into gas cylinders at a gas factory in Saint-Quentin-Fallavier near Lyon, France, which caused an explosion that injured two other people. Salhi was arrested and charged with murder and attempted murder linked to terrorism. Three other people were questioned by the police but released without charge.
The attack occurred on the same day as several other Islamist terrorist attacks, which have subsequently been named the 2015 Ramadan attacks, though any relationship between the various incidents is disputed. French authorities believe that Salhi has links with the Islamist terrorist group the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS). The attack occurred during heightened public fears over Islamist attacks in France, a few months after the Île-de-France attacks in January 2015, including the Charlie Hebdo shooting.
Salhi committed suicide in jail in December 2015.
You would have thought that the FRENCH would keep an eye of Jihadi murderers in prison, to stop them topping themselves.
At around 09:30 CEST (07:30 UTC) on 26 June 2015, Yassine Salhi, a delivery driver, gained entrance to the grounds of an Air Products factory in Saint-Quentin-Fallavier near the city of Lyon. He was driving a van with his dead 54-year-old boss, Hervé Cornara, inside it. He had tricked Cornara into getting into the van earlier that day, after which Salhi knocked him unconscious and strangled him. He then decapitated Cornara just before reaching the factory. Salhi had made regular visits to the factory, so he was known to employees at the site.
He placed Cornara’s severed head on a fence railing and planted two Jihadist flag banners alongside it. The head had a cloth thrown over it with the Shahada written on it: “There is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.” The headless body and a knife were found on the ground nearby. Salhi attempted to blow up the factory by ramming several gas cylinders, causing an explosion. Two other people were injured in the process. Video surveillance footage showed that the perpetrator also tried to open canisters containing flammable chemicals before being subdued minutes later.
He shouted “Allahu Akhbar” as he met and was overpowered by firefighters responding to the scene. The perpetrator had also photographed himself with the slain victim and sent the image to at least one other person via WhatsApp,
a French man who later joined ISIL
FRANCE Is Living Through A ‘Time Of War’
The familiar messages of inter-faith unity show that repeated acts of jihadist violence
in this country are testing relationships.
http://news.sky.com/story/france-is-living-through-a-time-of-war-10518560
Earlier this week, in response to the spate of terrorist attacks across Europe,
Pope Francis said the world was at war – that it had “lost its peace”.
With soldiers and armed police standing guard at the Cathedral entrance, with hundreds of people killed in attacks in France the last 18 months alone, in a country still officially in a state of emergency, few would accuse him of exaggeration.
Among the hundreds attending the mass were many from the suburb of Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, where France’s latest terrorist atrocity took place on Tuesday.
French police are already armed to the teeth. The report is talking about municipal sub-police who normally hand out parking tickets (or who would do if there were not a specialised unit for that). They don’t have the training to go in guns blazing. It is a sign of the paranoia of the French state, that they’re looking to arming everyone in sight, to “protect” the public. It’s what blow-back does to you. You start off easy – bomb a few brown people, for reasons of state which don’t even get out of the cabinet room. No problem. Then – horror! – there are reprisals. The brown people are able to get back at you. Panic.
At least Valls has come up with the idea of forbidding foreign funding for mosques. Of course only to be slapped down by Hollande, as the state can’t pay.
By the way, the duties of the municipal police are defined in Wiki as:
-assurer le bon ordre, la sécurité, la sûreté, la salubrité et la tranquillité publiques (article L511-1 du Code de la sécurité intérieure et article L2212-2 du Code général des collectivités territoriales) ;
-la bonne application des arrêtés municipaux ;
-le relevé des infractions routières ;
-le relevé des infractions au code de la voirie routière (L116-2 du code de la voirie routière), au code de l’urbanisme et à bien d’autres textes.
You can take it that the last three are the most important.
After 60 years of making Transit vans in Southampton, Ford got E.U. money to move the plant to TURKEY.
Of course, no-benefit to the workers of Ford in Southampton, unless they moved to Turkey for half the wages and wished to live in an unstable Islamic country.
Did any go?
https://www.rt.com/business/354271-turkey-coup-cost-billions/
Coup attempt cost Turkish economy $100bn – Trade Minister
“When we consider all those warplanes, helicopters, weapons, bombs and buildings, the cost is 300 billion liras minimum according to our calculations,” the minister told Turkish media in Ankara. He stressed the figure is likely to rise after more detailed calculations are made.
Turkish shares plunge due to political uncertainty, analysts warn worse to come
Tufenkci said the full picture should be seen in a medium-term context even if some investors stayed away in the short-term, adding that the rebels had made Turkey look like a third world country.
So is this the E.U. that Scotland is keen to stay with?
I hope FORD and the E.U. are proud of their choice of moving Transit from Southampton, England to Islamic Turkey.
For Ford, this was about getting the vans made with cheap labour.
For the E.U.
it was about getting Islamic Turkey to join the E.U.
But did the E.U. consider the Southampton workers, of course not, the E.U. Elite knows best.
The EIB are proud of having invested € 7.8 billion in the UK: http://www.eib.org/projects/regions/european-union/united-kingdom/index.htm
Using “moved” implies that they shipped the plant. For clarity, a new (and cheaper) plant was built in Turkey so that Turkish workers could have jobs (I missed the bit in Magna Carta that confers the people of Southampton the hereditary right to build Transit Vans)
Now that the UK has left the EU, Turkey has lost its principal supporter and will not be joining the EU even if Erdogan doesn’t pull the application completely. Austria would have vetoed it anyway.
That’s pretty grim. But governments (the US in particular) are happy to give corporations a tax break while they off-shore their employees’ jobs, it’s not just down to the EU.
I was pretty disappointed to find they were making Transits in Turkey. Thought we were getting something actually made in Britain for a change. Well, that’s filthy multi-national corporations for you – absolutely no loyalty or sense of fair play. Just the sort of people we want taking over our governments.
Ford’s ceased Transit production at Southamption in 2013…
That’ll teach me for not doing my homework a bit better, Kempe. Bought mine late last year.
The BBC North West did a short report showing some of the many thousands who braced the rain in Liverpool yesterday to support Jeremy Corbyn. The main news, to its continual shame, ignored it. Wherever he goes Jeremy Corbyn attracts huge crowds and Labour Party membership is at its highest, higher even than when war-criminal Blair was at the peak of his power.
Every time the BBC fails to report the truth another thousand viewers realise they have been fed garbage because they are invited by friends who ask them to see if they can spot themselves on the telly tonight. That is why despite attempts by the BBC and other MSM outlets to present another point of view. Their vilification of Corbyn supporters as thugs has led to a new label of Thuginistas a label these peaceful crowds are proud to embrace. But listen to his speech. It is something we have not heard for years. It rallies the masses and frightens the bankers who have robbed us blind for decades.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3E3reIFiV8&app=desktop
There are some lovely comments on the Thuginistas page like:
“Thanks for letting me join. I do so want to be a thug. I’m 74, with specs, two hearing aids, asthma and glaucoma and recovering from cancer – there, you see, a born thug! Thugs for Jeremy, unite!”
“I glared at some vagrant seagulls this morning? Am I thug enough?”
“I can scarcely bring myself to post this, so terrible are the depths of thuggery to which I have sunk … I had coffee with a friend today and used a spoon to stir my sugar. I know, I know.”
We have had the same negative “Blame Putin” meme which got the same treatment in Russia as our blatant thuggery is getting here.
Billmon shows a rally for Owen Smith in Liverpool that was rather sparsely attended.
Thanks Lysias. I think this was the link.
https://twitter.com/jamoorc
“Billmon shows a rally for Owen Smith in Liverpool that was rather sparsely attended.”
Someone in the Guardian comments got software to do a count. It was 110, including Smith’s support staff.
Why should the main news report it, Mr Goss?
We are not in Soviet Russia or another dictatorship where every word and movement of the Leader is reported in great and boring detail.
Why should the main news report that Mr Corbyn held a meeting attended by, apparently, thousands unless he said something startingly new or original? Or does the fact it was raining make the news national?
“We are not in Soviet Russia or another dictatorship where every word and movement of the Leader is reported in great and boring detail.”
No! Mercifully Tony Blair, and his heir Dodgy Dave, have now left office.
Perhaps the BBC would report if Corbyn had something of substance to say about economics. You may remember many months ago my asking about how the proposed National Investment Bank was going to select and monitor its proposed investments and how I never received anything approaching a response at the time – just the usual vacuous insults I’m afraid. Well it looks like his economic advisers including the much touted Pikety and Stiglitz have reached exactly the same conclusion – so we are back to John McDonnel’s plans from the LRC
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/02/i-advised-jeremy-corbyn-economics-team-learn-fast–no-credible-plan-labour-leadership
[mod: insult and spat that followed deleted]
Resident Dissident wrote: – “[Corbyn’s] economic advisers including the much touted Pikety and Stiglitz have reached exactly the same conclusion” [not to be on Labour’s economic advisory team].
Not so. Joseph Stiglitz hasn’t said anything yet. ‘Mariana Mazzucato, an economics professor at Sussex University, Ann Pettifor, the director of economics consultancy Prime and the Oxford University professor Simon Wren-Lewis were among the other advisers to agree that they should delay further meetings until “the dust has settled”’. Piketty cites pressure of work.
So in fact it’s the constant leadership challenges and sabotage that are the problem, and Corbyn’s detractors are blaming the victim.
The article linked by RD is a hit-piece against Corbyn by David Blanchflower. It links another article which I’ve quoted above, which the Guardian was forced to change substantially, including the headline:
– “This headline, subheading and body text of this article were amended on 30 June 2016. Earlier versions said Thomas Piketty had quit as an adviser to Jeremy Corbyn on Wednesday after criticising Labour’s “weak campaign”; in fact he quit two weeks ago and his departure was not connected to his criticism of the campaign”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/thomas-piketty-quits-as-adviser-to-jeremy-corbyn
Note also that the amended article which I linked is in the Politics section which can be held to account for factuality, whereas RD’s link is to the comment and opinion section.
“Facts are sacred, comment is free”, RD. Recognise that?
Why isn’t the committee is meeting? Why have most of its members left? Why isn’t the Party developing its economic policy? Why are Blanchflower and other economists no longer supporting Corby/McDonnell?
These are all fair questions that are not being answered. Corbyn has been in place for a while now, economics are key to any sort of political progress – and the fact is Corbyn has precious little to show for over 9 months in power. Blaming this weakness on sabotage is pretty pathetic – and should worry even the Corbynistas.
RT reports that buried in the International Court on the Former Yugoslavia’s judgment on Karadzic is an exoneration of Milosevic. Not only was he not guilty of genocide in Kosovo, he was also not guilty of it in Bosnia. https://www.rt.com/op-edge/354362-slobodan-milosevic-exonerated-us-nato/
For anyone who does not trust RT’s reporting, the ICTY’s judgment is at http://www.icty.org/x/cases/karadzic/tjug/en/160324_judgement.pdf . Andy Wilcoxson reported on the court’s findings on Counterpunch yesterday: http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/01/the-exoneration-of-milosevic-the-ictys-surprise-ruling/
If I were a lefty I’d be supporting the public school system right now. It seems to be producing an awful many lefties while the working class produces almost none.
Jeremy Corbyn, for instance (brother of Piers – both solid working class names), privately educated, Manor born, representative of Islington.
Owen Smith, state educated working class from Wales. Fucking Tory scum.
Whether or not Owen Smith is working class depends on definitions.
His father was an Oxford educated Professor of History and erstwhile senior BBC (Wales) employee. A background a little different from the traditional stereotypical Welsh working class background of miner, steelworker or more recently unemployed.
Professional Welshman
professional Welshman wins millions
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-36958727
You forget the Old Wykehamist Seumas Milne. .
“If I were a lefty”
Yes, and if I were a nightingale I’d be singing on a roof in Berkeley Square, but neither of us are, so why don’t you stop the speculation about “What ifs?”
Anon1- the Corbyn brothers both attended Adams Grammar School in Shropshire, not public schools. Their family background is middle class bohemian; Owen Smith’s is middle class academia/hereditary Taffia. Neither of them,or their respective supporters in the current leadership contest, should play the ‘prolier than thou’ game.
Off topic (along with everyone else). I often find it difficult to get an angle on Israeli politics, foreign policy and history, but have found the July/August edition of Foreign Affairs to be insightful and maps out some context. It starts by interviewing Ayelet Shaked and then Tzipi Livni as representatives of new and old Israel. I had a fundamental misconception (and possibly still do).I had thought that the religious right arose from immigrants from Russia looking to settle Palestnian land and I have been oblivious to the tension between the Ashkenazi elite with its liberal secular outlook and the more conservative religious Sephardic Jews from neighbouring Arab states. I was wondering if that tension is down played in the West because there is a tendency to criticise European settlers and it may not play so well to left wing critiques of Israel if it is those local Jews from Arab states, who turn out to be more opposed to a two state solution? I was also surprised by Tzipi Livini (ex Mossad,ex minister of foreign affairs and the winner of a general election though not then the leader ) so openly criticizing Ayelet Shaked and Naftalu Bennett for their ideology of a “Greater Israel”. I say surprised because I had the notion that the very term Greater Israel was a taboo fiction the use of which suggested that one might be anti-Semitic. You might think me bonkers, but on this forum use of that term seems to be taboo and there is so much said by the two extremes that it can be difficult to focus. Anyway I take heart from Tzipi Livni’s forthright approach., Its an interesting series of interviews and articles. I am left thinking (a) something has seriously changed in Israel, which we should keep an eye on and which us worrying (b) I need to understand more about Israel, its history, tensions, contradictions, aims and fears, (c) my appreciation for its robust democracy has not gone away ie a country where everyone serves in the military, progress into politics out of the military yet there is a strong media and judiciary is not to be ignored. Further, its determination to pursue its own agenda and not be dictated to by the US or Europe has to noted i.e. it has guts and we in Britain could do with some guts (although I don’t mean that we emulate Israel just that we have more confidence – maybe BREXIT and Thersa May are a start). I would like to know more about the extent to which it may have been easier, or indeed harder to pass anti terror laws in Israel than in the UK and the US ie have the liberal and socialist elites together with the judges formed a more gutsy resistance to these sorts of laws than here? Also what is the fuss about Israel Hayon the free daily newspaper owned by a US casino magnate and the attempt to force it to charge. I get s bad feeling when I here about casino magnates and politics. Finally, I am wondering to what extent conflicts between rival factions in Israel are perceived by Palestinians as a convenient fiction so as to justify the failure to find a solution?
We should all remember we are one. We should get to know our neighbours, share ideas, exchange culture, trade, marry, but also remember that good boundaries make good neighbours. I have no answers to Israel Palestine save to suggest all keep an open mind and continue to look, investigate, report and ask questions. You can be positive and cynical all at once. It doesn’t look too positive though.
[Mod: Tony M banned from commenting for anti-Semitism.
Tony M please respect this ban. Craig has been be notified for review]
It’s not so much a country as a staging post for imperialist assaults on the hinterland.
So many ‘talking points’ I don’t know where to begin.
Democracy?
Plucky?
The idea that the discriminated against Arab Jews who’ve co-existed in the region for centuries are the problem?
The early 20thC immigrant jews fled Russia to all parts of the world to escape the religious fanaticism and total control of the Ashkenazi cult, not Czarist indulgence, or even early Soviet policies, until they became integrationist, when Stalin finally sobered up after the war and eased up a little on treating the over-whelming majority Russians and Slavs as cattle, which was a step too far for some. How could anyone be special if all were equal?
[Mod: Tony M banned from commenting for anti-Semitism.
Tony M please respect this ban. Craig has been be notified for review]
“Finally, I am wondering to what extent conflicts between rival factions in Israel are perceived by Palestinians as a convenient fiction so as to justify the failure to find a solution? ”
This is a classic device to blame the Palestinians for Israeli hard-line intransigence and racial/religious supremacist malice, albeit worded ever so obfuscatingly. It reminds me of that trite little phrase so oft repeated about ‘never missing an opportunity to miss an opportunity’. Sixteen year old hasbara, spouted by sixteen-year-old hasbarists. Dismal.
Did you miss the gist of it?
Why did you infer that? I was talking about Jewish factions in Israel not Palestinians as a faction.
It’s still the same ‘[Palestinians] looking for an excuse, any excuse’ argument as in its earlier iteration.
“The early 20thC immigrant jews fled Russia to all parts of the world to escape the religious fanaticism and total control of the Ashkenazi cult, not Czarist indulgence, or even early Soviet policies,”
Complete and utter bollocks I’m afraid. Read about the 1903-06 pogroms here you Anti Semitic C**t.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire#1903.E2.80.9306
Mods you can delete the reference to Bollocks and C**t if you wish – but the rest needs to stand. Perhaps we should remember this all about the time of “Protocols of Zion” forgery to which much of the modern day bull**** roots can be chased and of which Tony M has just delivered a great steaming dollop.
I begin to see the reason for the moderation. You say something about Israel and it triggers anger far more so than most other topics. Why?
Bit uncivil, RD – even by your standards. Shame on you.
I wasn’t referring to RD.
You forget that the comments were put into moderation – but hey if you wish to stand by while the Russian pogroms of the early 20th century are blamed on the victims rather than the perpetrators that is your choice. Perhaps you might wish to direct some of shame to Tony M
Fwl – my anger was against Tony M’s comments on the Russian pogroms – not against your piece on Israel.
RD: Hmm, looked like you were replying to Fwl. Perhaps it’s an idea to make it clear to whom you reply, particularly while indulging in such unpleasant invective, as is your wont.
RD no it’s okay I completely got who you were directing your point at!
Linking to Wikipedia is more embarrassing than calling someone anti Semitic. Even Corbyn is called that nowadays. Get with the programme!
There might have been spontaneous events, worst I believe in Ukraine. There was no central govt. involvement or direction to it as you assert. The Czar was having a clear-out and re-draft of of old legislation which was a minefield of special pleading, so as to make the law of the country neutral as to a persons religion. Quite unthinkable.
Perhaps as well as trying to become a decent human being you should learn to read as well.- those fleeing the Pogroms did not do so “to escape the religious fanaticism and total control of the Ashkenazi cult” as you claimed, I made no claims one way or the other about the role of the Tsar in this matter. Typical dissembling on your part I’m afraid.
I see your sentence construction has improved marginally but not your continual use of ad hominems when you have no argument to put forward.
I guess both these comments will soon disappear but only one deservedly so.
The argument I’m making is pretty clear – you just chose not to want to hear it.
“The early 20thC immigrant jews fled Russia to all parts of the world to escape the religious fanaticism and total control of the Ashkenazi cult, not Czarist indulgence, or even early Soviet policies,”
You claim to have studied Russian history – do you think this claim is supportable???????
You disagree? Strongly? I’m indulging you this once with by trying to engage and soliciting an intelligent human response, to see if you can add anything to our collective knowledge and can come anywhere close to the truth for once.
On the factions in Israel, many have made in a very scholarly fashion the case that the Palestinian people have suffered more materially in loss of land and of basic human rights under the governance of so so-called ‘moderate’ Israeli politicians, than they have from from hard-liners like Likud, though under both the killing of course must go on invariably, unabated. It’s essentially Tory/NewLab, Democrat/Republican -that is rhetoric aside, indistinguishable functionally from one another, except in this surprising manner described. Do you share that view?
I don’t know, it is possible and that was my question. I can see why some would say so but that would be to deny the sincerity of many.
Thanks for that thoughtful piece. Pity others just like to stick to the old certainties and binary choices that have done nothing whatsoever but perpetuate misery and fear for most ordinary Palestinians and Israelis.
They do don’t they. Prejudice can blind people to reality.
It’s pretty well known that Sephardi Israelis are more extreme than Ashkenazis. I’ve always taken the reason to be that once they were encouraged by the first Israelis to up and leave their homes in order to people the new Israel, they were cut off absolutely from their former homes, and everything they knew, in a way that European and American Jews weren’t. Also, once arrived in the new land, at the beginning of the 1950s, they were actually treated with suspicion, and quite badly, by the European Israelis in place. Even today, how many Jews from Arab lands are actually in major positions (I’ll leave it to you to do the count)? Hard to get ahead if you’re a Yemeni Jew. Let alone an Ethiopian.
8.33pm. Thanks for publishing. Was my hunch as to the trigger correct?
Serious question: Why aren’t Clegg and Cameron vilified as war criminals for the destruction of Libya in the same way as Blair is because of Iraq?
Why indeed!
Not to mention the missing nuclear weapons, and why UK Prime Ministers will not have an Inquiry into Lockerbie.
Serious answer: I don’t know.
European Empire Swines
May on a collision course with Brussels as EU demands WE pay £50BN for Eurocrat pensions
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/695797/Pensions-EU-referendum-Brexit-funds
It gets worse.
Around 1,730 Britons currently make up almost 8 per cent of the 22,000 retired European Empire stooges
They include former EU commissioners LORD MANDELSON and LORD KINNOCK,
who both receive five-figure annual payments from Brussels.
Guess which side of the recent E.U. referendum these NULABOUR SCUM were on?
http://christophereverard.co.uk/kinnocks-10-million-pay-off-and-the-eu-secret-bank-accounts/
Neil Kinnock was way ahead of the Opinion Polls back in 1992 and everyone fully expected Kinnock and his charming wife to go straight into Number 10 Downing Street… However, the morning after that British general election was the dawning of a nightmare – a strange drab man – JOHN MAJOR – who had accidentally ended up being an unelected Prime Minister [following a coup on Margaret Thatcher] was ushered into Downing Street…
The morning after, Kinnock was broadcast on TV with Welsh pensioners, he could hardly hold back his tears, as it was obvious that the 1992 British general election – like so many others – had been RIGGED. Kinnock might have become somewhat of a loose canon at that point – but luckily he managed to become a multi-millionaire – courtesy of the EU and British tax payers…