An SNP Scottish majority at Westminster must result in a Declaration of Independence and that must be made clear to voters. Having tried to refuse Indyref2, Theresa May has arrogantly and opportunistically called a Westminster election. It is time to take advantage of her extreme hubris and use her own momentum to make her fall flat on her face.
Independence is obtained by international recognition by other states and not by any specified internal process. As I have stated repeatedly, the large majority of states, including EU states Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia have achieved independence without a referendum as part of the process. Recognition by the UN General Assembly is what brings Independence. Nothing else.
Democratic legitimacy is important but a referendum is not the only way to gain it. Winning an election is a much more established way to gain democratic legitimacy. For Scotland’s MPs to declare Independence following a general election victory in Scotland would be to follow the path by which nations have normally gained Independence. I would prefer, after the June 8 election, a National Assembly to be called consisting of all Scotland’s national representatives – MPs, MSPs and MEPs to make the Declaration of Independence. But Scotland’s Westminster MPs could equally be convened in Edinburgh to do it.
This is a key moment for the SNP. There will never be a time of greater fluidity in the British state; now we must strike to break it up. The SNP can either play Theresa May’s game and fight a defensive election trying to save all those seats and accepting the parameters of the British state as defining the debate. Then if the SNP slips from 56 to 53 of Scotland’s 59 MPs the media will present it as a massive defeat.
Or we can seize this God-given moment and state boldly that a vote for the SNP is a vote for Independence, and campaign on that basis. A simple majority of Scottish MPs should be enough for a mandate – after all a simple majority of UK MPs is enough to give Theresa May vast powers to continue her arrogant style of rule.
We must stay ahead of the game. We must not fight on the enemy’s chosen ground. We can turn this election around and use it to gain our national freedom.
Yes. The time for fooling around is over. England wants Tories. They want the destruction of all post war social gains. English people who are suffering this also vote for it.
It’s time to go.
That is exactly what Sinn Fein did in 1919.
Was a nice little Irish civil war part of the plan, I wonder?
There’s no Scottish armed force or physical force present in Scottish nationalism. There’ll be no civil war. What Scot is going to fight for England?
The Clan Cameron, presumably…
If there is war in Scotland following a Scottish declaration of independence, it will once again be because the British government refuses to accept peaceably a democratic decision of the people concerned. Just as happened in the Irish case.
I was referring to Irish independence, Athanasius.
Every time a certain poster refers to Sinn Fein and the Irish election of 1919 I remind him of the subsequent Irish civil war.
In 1919, Ireland was occupied by a foreign (British) Army and a large majority of Irish MPs voted to leave the UK and assemble as a national legislature (Dáil Éireann).
This assembly declared independence.
The British Government in Ireland attempted to suppress this declaration with armed force.
The tragic Civil War following the Irish (partial) victory was between those who felt that partial freedom was better than none and those who wanted to press for full independence.
The Civil War would not have happened if Britain had not tried to suppress the Irish declaration of independence by force.
Happy Scotland, who can achieve her independence by a tick on a ballot paper.
Yup, the Irish civil war was all the fault of the Brits.
Nothing to do with two competing lots of republican Oirishmen resorting to the bullet and bomb to settle their differences.
The “Oirishmen” jibe rather gives the game away Habbabuk. Perhaps a typo?
The “bomb and the bullet” was introduced into Ireland by the foreign Amy that occupied it.
The center of Dublin was shelled by a British gunboat in 1916…
Large parts of central Dublin were left in ruins, not by Irishmen with rifles (should that be Oirish?) but by British artillery.
Oh, so sorry, John K, I thought the Oirish civil war took place several years after 1916 but I of course – as always – stand ready to be corrected.
Glad to oblige.
Ireland’s treatment (you don’t really need me to list the detail) by Britain created bitterness and hatred, together with a ready recourse to violence as a reaction to violence.
Civil wars often follow wars of independence. Not peaceful independence.
Happy the country, happy Scotland that can achieve her Independence through peaceful votes.
It was part of the British plan.
Of course, Bevs – everything bad that happened anywhere was entirely the fault of the Brits and usually part of their fiendish master plan for …. (placeholder – to be filled in by ConspiraLoon).
You are obviously a second Professor Herbie in your unequalled ability to peer though the mists of time and see the big picture.
It’s a straight choice with this election.
Who is to run Scotland?
Ourselves with independence. Or a hard right Tory government imposing hard brexit on Scotland.
A progressive Scottish government to run Scotland.
Or a reactionary Tory government to run down Scotland.
Right on Craig.
‘ Nicola Sturgeon
(@NicolaSturgeon)
The Tories see a chance to move the UK to the right, force through a hard Brexit and impose deeper cuts. Let’s stand up for Scotland. #GE17
April 18, 2017 ‘
“The Tories see a chance to move the UK to the right”
I do love the way you try to play these mind-games. Who was it dragged this country to the very right and in the process made himself the poodle of the most right wing US president since Ronnie Raygun? Yes, it was Blair with Nu Labour and Gormless Gordon in tow. Do you think any of us have forgotten, except for you, Craig, and Mrs Hashtag Sturgeon?
FYI Zebedee, Nicola Sturgeon is Mrs Murrell.
Sharp Ears is right.
The Sturgeon – Murrell team pulls in a little under £250K per annum.
That’s about 10 times the average UK national wage.
Whereas some would cry “troughers”, I shall of course refrain.
Why would you call Sturgeon and Murrell troughers when they are actually working and doing things for Scotland? You should turn your mind to the REAL troughers in Scotland, the unelected list MSPs of the Tory, Labour and Libdem parties WHO DO NOTHING APART FROM TURN UP AND COLLECT THEIR WAGES.. Some of them have been persistent troughers for the last 10 or more years without EVER winning an election at any level in Scotland. They are a curse and a drag on Scotland.
Then we could turn our attention to Westminster where the SNP MPs are the only ones who work at, and are renowned as, the only people challenging this Tory Government and its malign policies. The rest be they Labour MPs, Libdem MPs, or even Tory backbench MPs, and of course the zombies in the Lords whose only function seems to be to turn up, sign in, and depart with their £300 +expenses, or go in to a an excellent lunch subsidised of course by the tax payer, then head for the red benches to sleep it off for the rest of the day, None of them do anything, they don’t turn up for debates, abstain when they do, and sit in House fo Commons bars all day drinking fine wines and other alcohlic beverages, again at the Taxpayers’ expense. THEY ARE THE TROUGHERS’ TROUGHERS.
Why does Nicola never refer to herself as Mrs. Murrell but Ms. Nicola Sturgeon
It was good enough for Mrs. Thatcher
and good enough for Mrs. May
is it perhaps a character flaw in Nicola?
No it is not a character flaw in Nicola. But it’s a character flaw in you for even thinking it is a reasonable question.
Why do you even consider that important?
It was Thatcher who was in bed with Reagan. You’ve got the wrong decade 🙂
Thankfully, only the least informed 1% of the population wouldn’t already know this.
Also, the Tories always try and drag society to the right, being the right-wing party and all. It is the entirety of their raison d’etre.
Are you prone to spouting this kind of nonsense?
“It was Thatcher who was in bed with Reagan.”
__________________
And according to our Transatlantic Irish-American Friend (aka “Lysias”) it was PM Blair who was homosexually entertained by an American male prostitute while visiting President Bush in Washington.
You do a good job for recruitment to the independence cause please keep it up
Your union is breaking up
“We must not fight on the enemy’s chosen ground.”
Worth saying at least twice.
Back to the 1970s – a majority of SNP MPs equals Independence.
Hopefully Labour Party members will use this opportunity to put the ancien regime hangers-on out to grass. Its new leader may emerge from the new intake. Could be good for Labour in the long run.
Craig – thank you for this early summary. The kitchen sink will be thrown at Scotland along with other ‘imperialist debris’ we can do without. The economic argument – ‘too wee, too poor’ etc has been lost in the deritrus of Brexit. Scotland must stand up and say – ‘No, you can no longer behave in the way you have.’ Hubris, arrogance, fear, loss of confidence…whatever has brought this about deserves to be treated with the contempt it deserves – Scotland deserves better. You Craig will know better than most how the establishment works to destabilise.
Indeed. High risk of non-fatal false flag violent or abusive incidents blamed on Scottish Nationalists over next six weeks. Low but existing risk of fatal false flag attacks.
Well we have seen how irrational Scottish Nationalists can be so who would be surprised?
And you are…?
Well, who are you for that matter?
Disappointing to see Craig descend to the level of some of the more ConspiraLunatic Eminences on here.
That grip is slipping
Not for me.
I favour winning under the current system, to avoid 15 years of mayhem .stay patient, it’s coming yet for a’ that
Are you by any chance related to the engineer of the puffer the CUTTY SARK.
Recognition by the UN General Assembly is what brings Independence. Nothing else.
No it’s not. Independence is (logically) prior to recognition. It is clear that referendums, etc. are not required, but neither is recognition by some specified international forum. No amount of UN recognition makes Palestine a state, given that it has neither sovereign authority over anything, nor a defined population or boundaries, while Somaliland and Transnistria (and arguably IS) are independent states regardless of the lack of international recognition.
Craig, I agree with almost everything you say, but I would go further. I think Theresa May is a FAR more capable woman than people have been giving her credit for up until now. On the surface, Brexit has looked like a total debacle thus far, with shock and awe apparently running through the corridors of Whitehall and desperation to cobble together a plan – ANY plan – to deal with what’s coming down the road. Boris Johnson is the walking exemplar of the Peter Principle and is operating far above his level of incompetence. Davis is Smee to May’s Captain Hook, but I think May herself knows exactly what she’s at. Superficially, she’s a far more attractive character than Thatcher, physically as well as on a personal level. That’s important because 1) physically attractive people tend to get underestimated by other who then allow them their own way much more easily than harpies like Thatcher; psychologists call this “The Halo Effect”, and 2) she’s as smart as they come: she’s every bit as right wing as Thatcher, but she sees a glorious opportunity to achieve things that Thatcher could only dream of. She’s clinging on to Brexit like sh1t to a shovel because she knows that if it’s played right she can drag England so far back into the Edwardian that cloth caps will be compulsory, and Scotland will be down and out quicker than Cally at a play-off . Scotland really needs to get it clear in its collective mind what’s at stake here, screw its courage to the proverbial sticking point and cut the cord. Just do it.
David Mundell with your 798 majority. Feeling confident?
I wonder how enthusiastic for an election Davie was at the cabinet meeting this morning. Did he even get a say?
Probably not.
Was he even in the room? That might be a more appropriate question. Answer is still the same though, probably not.
Was wee Davie even at the Cabinet meeting? He’s confined to the Civil Service seats at Brexit meetings.
opportun ist Tories want to be ousted totally in Scotland as well as to raise their new union jack flag symbolising a hobnail boot at its centre.
If its all about Indyref2 in Scotland
In England its all going to be the same as usual. Party politicians will try their best to cheat and gain advantages by any means, policies to achieve this are in place.
Young first time voters should ensure that they are registered to vote and that their future does not go down a fascist plughole.
For that a progressive Alliance comprised of parties that can jump over their respective ego’s are the only one’s who can change the equation.
Those who think that Labour will win on their own account are frying voters before the pan is hot, its a mathematically impossible task under a FPTP system.
The anarchy of the establishment will carry on. The lighter shades of brexit will be aired during the campaign but hopefully this will not be the only issue. Mrs. May thinks that her split party is ready for a GE, now is the time to show how wrong she is. Can society suffer more of the continuing austerity?
What a massive waste of money, 300 million down the drain.
I could have sworn the Tories said, soon after their 2010 ConDem pact got into Downing Street, that we would have fixed 5-year terms from now on, in order to add stability to government, end speculation and so on.
Unless you have a strict proportionate representation system with lots of parties that can form coalitions in different permutations, having a strict fixed-term parliament system is unworkable. Which is why the Fixed-Term Parliament act has not one but two mechanisms for calling an early election, one of which (the 2/3rds majority vote) was used today. (Well, it will be once the MPs actually vote for a new election.)
Typical.
Typical of what?
God, I regret, has nothing to do with this. The reason is that in the next year or two another world financial crisis is possible, or even probable. May, who has Scots mining ancestry, paradoxically could be the very person to wave goodbye to the Scots and leave them to sink or swim.
“May, who has Scots mining ancestry…”
Forget her forbears down the pits. She is the pits.
Is it not the problem with our society the system with witch we are living under is capitilism you can change all the methods of governments and you will not get any basic alteration in the way the working class are exploited and abused.Scottish independance will not alter one little bit Scotlands ability to have to abide by capilism laws,there have been many national examples which have tried but they have all failed.Independance is way to change your national exploiters,was it not said after ww2 when people thought they controlled the newly nationalised industries it is same bosses as before.
You don’t know the Scots then?
Seydlitz,
https://www.teezily.com/uk-hate-capitalism
If you care about your children’s education, vote Labour. Same on OUR NHS.
‘Schools in Labour areas will suffer “devastating” cuts of more than £1,000 per pupil due to Government reforms, while Conservative-held areas will suffer a fraction of the budget cutbacks, new research has shown. A league table ranking Parliamentary constituencies in England by the scale of cuts they are likely to suffer reveals that every MP will see schools in their area hit by a drop in funding by 2020. The analysis shows that schools in Labour-held constituencies will see drastic cuts to their budgets as a result of changes to school funding currently being considered by the Department for Education (DfE).
https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/education/devastating-cuts-hit-schools-labour-seats/
Schools funding under May,
The most to lose out are in Labour constituencies. The most to benefit are in Con. areas.
https://res.cloudinary.com/jpress/image/fetch/c_fill,f_auto/https://1k95i3bqziq3bboq03r87f8x-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/16JanEducationMapWEB-760×1031.jpg
Seems like you’d want to vote Conservative and spare your kids’ school the axe…
Agreed, there’s never been more at stake in our generation, and perhaps in our history. I’m thinking of course about our collective survival, not the parochial concerns of the opportunist class in Westminster. The biggest problems we face can only be solved globally. A resounding rejection of neo-liberal myopia, the captive-market dream yoked to the war economy of the US is as good as anything we can currently achieve.
Analysts shows schools in labour held councils will fall down
Vote the Liarbour that spent 1997-2010 selling the freehold of the NHS so the Official tories only had to sell off the cash flow? Do me a lemon.
I agree 100% with you. The question is how do we get the SNP to do this? Petition? Demonstrations?
I am sitting on the edge of my seat.
Rather than just sit on the edge of your seat get up and do something.
Get along to the hustings, voice your support/concerns.
Join in to help deliver the opportunity, get involved and drive the agenda.
Don’t let Cambridge Analytica and BloJo have a chance.
Mind you with Champions League Football, English Premier League football competitions vying for attention would you bother?
Its all part of the plan. SNP majority declare independence for Scotland. If BREXIT goes badly wrong Mighty WM can deal with the EU through the back door via Scotland. Safety net provided the Tories can then make moves on a brick hard BREXIT. But Scotland will have to go over the small print carefully with any dealings with WM.
I do not understand why, when Crimea had a vote to secede from the Ukraine, with a 96% vote in favour. they have been condemned by all Western so-called Democratic countries. Why is this still the official Western policy today.
Deemed by some as an illegal poll, they voted to go back under Russian control which is what annoys the West.
Unlike the bent “elections” in Ukraine after the US-Ukronazi putsh.
Good point Craig – a very relevant precedent is 1918 election in Ireland which shortly after lead to Irish Independence/Partition
Sinn Fein won “only” 47% of the vote but the majority of the seats – the rest is History evidence below
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_general_election,_1918
Nail head Craig , but have the SNP the bottle , they already have the tide.
“A simple majority of Scottish MPs should be enough for a mandate”
In an FPTP system a parliamentary majority is a mandate for fuck all. You know that, don’t be seduced by a few folk songs.
Suggested campaign: we argue to all others (left, right and centre) that they hold their noses and vote SNP. If collectively SNP get more than 50% of the vote, UDI. Then our disagreements can at last be constructive.
Yes Vronsky. It doesn’t matter how many seats the SNP get exactly. If pro-independence parties get over 50% then it can be considered a mandate for independence and we can avoid Scotland being out the single market.
If we can get Mundell out and prevent the Tories taking any SNP rural seat that would be a bonus. The Tories couldn’t claim they had a mandate to keep Scotland in the union if they had no Scottish Tory MP.
Sense at last, the Snats need 50% of the electorate though, not a mere 50% of the voters who don’t abstain.
That’s a ridiculous statement and you know it, or if you don’t know it you are stupid. If you don’t vote you don’t count. simples.
Snats? Do they drive the Rezillos’ snatsomobile?
Over the past few months there have been some on here who said that Labour under Mr Jeremy Cor-byn would easily sweep to victory in the next general election : the oppressed masses would rise up and, bursting their Tory chains, lead the nation to a glorious future under (at last!) a truly left-wing government.
June 8th will see their theories tested in full maesure.
Just for the record, would those prophets of a sweeping Labour victory under Mr Jeremy Cor-byn please re-identify themselves?
Don’t be shy now! 🙂
Wouldn’t you be better waiting for the result before playing told you so.
No, why?
I’m just asking those who were expressing such supreme confidence in a Labour victory to remind us of who they are.
A very innocuous question in my opinion. Failure to answer by those concerned might seem to indicate slightly less confidence now – would that be a fair assessment? 🙂
This is the time for him to rehearse these silly, and utterly conventional, bits of wisdom borrowed from the BBC. On June 9th things may have turned out very differently.
Bevs
I’m quite capable of reaching my own conclusions and developing my own thoughts without any help from the BBC. You should try doing the same one of these days; throw away your copy of the collected works of Lenin and Trotsky, take a break from attending the meetings of whichever Trotskyite splinter group you adhere to and do some thinking for yourself. You’ll save on parrot food as well.
Your tighter grip on the union is only forcing us away
The assumption then being that a General Election would be held in 2020. Treeza has to go to ‘Parliament’ tomorrow for a vote to agree to one three years earlier. A farce.
Keep going 7/55
Ah, there’s the alibi – I was waiting for it.
A sweeping Mr Cor-byn victory – but only in 2020 🙂
But why wait for so long to give the masses the chance to cast off their Tory chains?
Surely next month is better than only in three years?
Surely the state of OUR NHS is so dire and the threat to it so grave that an general election next month is to be greatly desired?
Unless, of course, you believe that Labour will go down ti a crashing defeat.
Now IS the time!!
“Now is the hour” (in Greek : “Tora einai i ora”) was the main campaign slogan used a few years ago by the last PASOK government in Greece as it went into new elections.
PASOK lost convincingly.
Robert the Bruce had a similar line too, with happier results!
Don’t quite follow this. Got to the first paragraph. Where is the SNP majority at Westminster? Help. Can progress to rest of argument once clarified.
I’m as puzzled as Carolyn.
There are something like 50 SNP MPs in a United KIngdom parliament of rougtly 630 MPs.
That doesn’t look like an SNP “majority at Westminster” to me.
The parallel with Ireland in 1918, where Sinn Fein had a majority of Ireland’s 100 odd MPs, is quite clear, and has been stated several times.
You are playing dumb, a role in which you have natural ability.
Well, if that’s a precedent, then let’s hope that indepedence won’t again be followed by a cruel and fairly ruthless civil war as was the case in Eire, where Oirishmen decided, in their wisdom and in accordance with their love for freedom and democracy, to settle their political differences by the bullet and the gun.
By the bullet and the gun, and er the gunpowder, if I may improve your weary cliché.
For all but simple minds it is not complicated. It is a majority of SCOTTISH MPs at Westminster supporting Independence which is required. And that is according to Margaret, the Great Tory Lady in the Sky (with Diamonds).
A simple majority of SNP MPs at Westminster = Scottish independence. Every bit as democratic as a referendum the Unionists will only agree to when they know they will win.
Ruth Davidson is going to have to fight this election in Scotland for the Tories defending hard brexit, denial of indyref2, austerity, the rape clause and the racism of Tory candidates.
Humorous photocalls won’t help her any this time.
I wonder how the CPS/Police are getting on with inquiries relating to Conservative 2015 electoral fraud?
Would a GE in June 2017 effectively render these investigations redundant, in terms of the need for by-elections in the affected seats as opposed to criminal charges for those involved?
It would be interesting to see whether the Tory MP’s concerned are retained as candidates in these seats or if other candidates are parachuted in.
Well remembered. And RIP Elliott Johnson. driven to suicide by Mark Clarke of the bus nonsense. All covered up by the Tory hierarchy, Lord Feldman, Grant Shapps and Lady Pidding.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/31/conservative-activist-elliott-johnson-killed-himself-coroner-rules
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/29/tory-party-chairman-under-pressure-to-quit-over-bullying-scandal
Treeza was right when she said it was the NASTY party.
Have Police Scotland
tracked down their missing £200000000 yet?
If a general election has been forced upon them by eventsthey’re far more vulnerable than they’ve been pretending. Interesting.
Nicola Sturgeon has been running rings around May. And the Scottish MPs, the real opposition at Westminster, are doing her every week at PMQs. She doesn’t know how to cope with it or why it’s happening because she’s been listening to the faux advice wee Shouty McBoatyface and wee Davie have been feeding her that all is going well up THERE. The poor advice stemmed from Wee Shouty looking for a safe seat dahn sahf, and Davie the gay wee puppy just begging for approval with tongue out looking for pats on the head from the lead bitch.
I passionately believe in Independence, but I would temper your enthusiasm here…
Trying to use the general election as a springboard sounds like a good plan but given the bias in national media against Scotland generally and the SNP in particular it might prove a dangerous move.
The Tories will use it as the SNP trying to diminish the Brexit choice agenda with another issue, loads of on the fencers will buy this after it being drummed into them by the BBC and the national press….
The stale old alibi of “bias in the national media” is being trotted out early this time round…
Probably because there’s truth in it. No smoke without fire, as the old saying goes.
Go for it Nicola
“we can seize this God-given moment”
How do we know that God gave it? For all we know it might be presented to us as a temptation from the Devil – or Theresa May might indeed be a witch who is summoning demons to trick the electorate?;)