An SNP Scottish majority at Westminster must result in a Declaration of Independence and that must be made clear to voters. Having tried to refuse Indyref2, Theresa May has arrogantly and opportunistically called a Westminster election. It is time to take advantage of her extreme hubris and use her own momentum to make her fall flat on her face.
Independence is obtained by international recognition by other states and not by any specified internal process. As I have stated repeatedly, the large majority of states, including EU states Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia and Croatia have achieved independence without a referendum as part of the process. Recognition by the UN General Assembly is what brings Independence. Nothing else.
Democratic legitimacy is important but a referendum is not the only way to gain it. Winning an election is a much more established way to gain democratic legitimacy. For Scotland’s MPs to declare Independence following a general election victory in Scotland would be to follow the path by which nations have normally gained Independence. I would prefer, after the June 8 election, a National Assembly to be called consisting of all Scotland’s national representatives – MPs, MSPs and MEPs to make the Declaration of Independence. But Scotland’s Westminster MPs could equally be convened in Edinburgh to do it.
This is a key moment for the SNP. There will never be a time of greater fluidity in the British state; now we must strike to break it up. The SNP can either play Theresa May’s game and fight a defensive election trying to save all those seats and accepting the parameters of the British state as defining the debate. Then if the SNP slips from 56 to 53 of Scotland’s 59 MPs the media will present it as a massive defeat.
Or we can seize this God-given moment and state boldly that a vote for the SNP is a vote for Independence, and campaign on that basis. A simple majority of Scottish MPs should be enough for a mandate – after all a simple majority of UK MPs is enough to give Theresa May vast powers to continue her arrogant style of rule.
We must stay ahead of the game. We must not fight on the enemy’s chosen ground. We can turn this election around and use it to gain our national freedom.
This won’t happen, nor should it. Scotland’s situation is not analogous to those of the countries quoted. Decades ago, it was assumed that if at some distant point in the future the SNP were in a position to gain more than half of Scottish Westminster seats, it would have a pretty clear mandate for independence within the system then in force. Few ever thought this would happen in any reasonably foreseeable timescale, as Scottish nationalism was at the time little more than a fringe movement. Fast forward to recent history, and things have changed. We have a parliament in Holyrood, and the widely accepted route to independence is via a popular referendum. We have a precedent. The only reasonable cause for abandoning this route, is where Westminster threatens to try and stop or place unacceptable conditions on a referendum; then and only then should the pro-independence movement in Scotland formally abandon the referendum process in favour of plebiscitary elections to either Westminster or Holyrood, both of which would still require more than 50% of those who voted to vote in support of independence to be accepted internationally.
Given today’s events, it should be made quite clear that a convincing performance by pro-independence parties merely reinforces the already existing mandate for a second referendum in 2018 or 19 at an exact time of the Scottish Government’s choice. Nicola Sturgeon was quite correct in her comments immediately after May’s surprise announcement; the mandate isn’t in question, and we shouldn’t imply that it is, which seeking to use the upcoming General Election as some sort of short cut would do. I for one would not support any moves towards UDI absent any clear and present danger of a Spanish/Catalan situation, or the threat of force.
Craig dishes out the fantasy island routine after every bit of news as what it is, he knows it stirs the Nationalist mutual masturbation society into a frenzy.
Fact is we had a referendum two and a half years back that was quite decisive, the people of Scotland voted to be part of the UK. Nationalist claims that Brexit makes it different are easily disproved, just take a look back to before the EU referendum and see how important Craig and other Nationalist posters thought it was then. All indications are that people in Scotland are not bothered enough about Brexit to want another referendum and not bothered enough to change their minds about independence so the result of the “once in a lifetime” referendum will stand.
Yeah so democracy only applies if you get the result you wanted?
National Self Determination is a fundamental human right guaranteed by the signatories of the Charter of the United Nations, that includes the UK.
If Scotland votes for a majority of independence candidates to be returned as MPs in June then that is game over. 30 or more SNP MPs constitutes a mandate for Scottish independence.
Just as Westminster does not need Scotland’s permission to leave the EU, Scotland does not need anybody else’s permission to dissolve its union with the kingdom of England (&Wales).
Suck it up and get used to it.
England does not get to call the shots on Scotland’s future this time.
Yes national self determination is very important. In 2014 the people of Scotland determined that they wanted to remain part of the UK. The Nationalists are trying to take self determination away from the people.
We had a referendum, you lost, get over it.
We had a referendum on joining Europe in 1975. Strange that frothing brexiteers and carpet biting Tory rightwingers never accept THAT was permanent! 😉
Pretty immature and vacuous response there – “you lost, get over it”. The Scottish people can and will have another choice whether to remain in the UK that is now leaving the EU (a condition not deemed realistic in 2014) or to become independent, whether through another referendum or the next general election.
The unionists lied about the EU, oil, shipbuilding, tax jobs, renewable subsidies, etc, etc – get over it and accept the people of Scotland are entitled to another choice, this time under very different conditions, or are you running scared of what the result will be?
“Yeah so democracy only applies if you get the result you wanted?”
Correct, see Ireland and the Lisbon treaty. Or, as Tom Lehrer so succinctly put it,
“They’ve got to be protected, all their rights respected, until someone we like can get elected…”
Utter nonsense Fred. The result of the vote in 2014, whilst interesting, is entirely irrelevant now. It was accepted, and we have moved on as have the circumstances. The views of individuals, whether Craig or Nicola Sturgeon or Alex Salmond are also irrelevant to what happens in the future. If as you assert Scots aren’t that bothered, then they won’t support pro-independence parties, or give them a mandate for #indyref2, or support them in #GE17. The problem for britnats is they are doing all 3. Polls show convincing majorities in Scotland saying it is entirely a matter for Scots when and under what conditions #indyref2 is held. Awkward for unionists I know, but no amount of desperate wish fulfilment on your part gets around that central fact.
Nobody argues that the result of 2014 stands. Similarly, nobody sane accepts that it is once in a lifetime/generation/[insert britnat period of choice here], still less that it is permanent. Scots voters will decide when and how often referendums are held, NOT Westminster, and certainly not Theresa May. There is an accepted route to deciding this matter; via popular referendum. Your attempt to close that route off is even more deluded than Craig’s proposal to throw the independence baby out with the referendum bath water. Nice try, but no cigar bud!
But we had a referendum so nobody is denying anyone a referendum.
The Nationalists idea that they can just keep holding referendums till they get the result they want is not democracy. Standing by the promise of once in a lifetime and standing by the Edinburgh agreement the result would be decisive
deliver a fair test and a decisive expression of the views of people in Scotland and a result that everyone will respect
http://www.gov.scot/About/Government/concordats/Referendum-on-independence
Both Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon signed that despite your Orwellian attempts to alter history.
We have as many referendums as the Scottish people mandate, and according to the rules their sovereign parliament mandates. No true democrat could advocate denying the people of Scotland (or anywhere else like Catalonia) the right to determine their own future by exercising their right to vote. Nobody is empowered to make once in a lifetime guarantees, certainly not “here today gone tomorrow” politicians.
We all DID respect the result of the 2014 referendum. We lost. We didn’t get over it. Nobody is trying to re-write history, we’re just not letting you and your anti-democratic ilk gerrymander Scotland’s political future.
We had a referendum and we want to abide by the democratic will of the people of Scotland.
It is you who is undemocratic. You who wants to make the people keep on voting till they get it right.
Like if we had a referendum and the Nationalists won they would allow another referendum two years later.
I’m just stating the facts, you are the one bending reality to your wishes.
Nobody is stopping you Fred. I wouldn’t expect convinced unionists to accept the puerile “you lost, get over it” line in the event of a Yes vote in #indyref2, any more than I’d expect convinced EU supporters to accept the brexit result as permanent and immutable, or would have expected ardent brexiteers to accept a vote to stay in the EU if that had been the result of the brexit referendum.
The whole point of democracy is not telling people “you lost, get over it, the result is permanent/for a random period I decide”! There would be absolutely nothing to stop you and your mates campaigning to re-join the union if Scots vote for independence in future. Remind us how many countries have voted to abandon independence in favour of unions in the modern era Fred…? We’ll wait……
Ellis
“We have as many referendums as the Scottish people mandate..”
___________________
Wrong. You’ll have as many referendums as the parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland mandates.
Who the hell do people like you think you are? You claim to speak for the SNP, which claims to speak for the entire Scottish people, which claims that its wishes should take precedence over the wishes of the people of the entire UK?
As I have observed before, there is greater scope and potential for some kind of fascist government in an independent Scotland than is the case for the UK.
But you see I was and still am a convinced EU supporter, I campaigned here for Remain and I voted remain.
But my support for democracy is more important than my support for the EU. We had a referendum and I lost I got over it. I would not support having another referendum on Europe, it has been decided, democratically.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/will-vote-remain-love-mum/comment-page-1/#comment-605005
Wind your neck in son! You look like a goose!
“Craig dishes out the fantasy island routine after every bit of news as what it is, he knows it stirs the Nationalist mutual masturbation society into a frenzy.”
_____________________
Fred is spot on – this Scottish nationalism business IS just masturbation, whether mutual or not.
I would add that it provides fertile ground for all sort of conspiracy theorists from the ballot-rigging brigade to the media bias brigade. That’s before possible independence.
And when it all goes pear-shaped after the event – as it will when there is no longer an English financial tit to suckle on – who will the Scots Nats then blame, I wonder…?
“And when it all goes pear-shaped after the event – as it will when there is no longer an English financial tit to suckle on – who will the Scots Nats then blame, I wonder…?”
That’s really selling the Union, isn’t it?
I find it hard to understand why Habbabkuk is exaggerating the usual “too wee too poor too stupid” trope into a sort of “utterly insignificant worthless brainless” extreme. Unless he is simply being his provocative old self or is really an agent provocateur or even a secret supporter of self-determination for us inferior Scots.
Perhaps you could link to credible sources that prove the comments re people not wanting another Referendum? Or that they are ‘not bothered enough’ about Brexit to want another Referendum? Just stating that doesn’t make it right or true. Because that certainly isn’t my experience of Facebook or Twitter. I’m afraid your post is just all worn out, old cliches. I’d suggest that 62% vote for Remain means that it DOES matter to people that they get to stay in the EU. And again I think you’re incorrect that the first Independence Referendum was ‘quite decisive’… 52% is just over half the population. I would not consider that ‘quite decisive’. ‘No’ won – and that’s about it. And the UK then was a far different place to the UK of today.
That other old cliche, ‘once is a lifetime’, is, as you are probably fully aware, was never said. What was said was that IndyRef1 was a once in lifetime ‘opportunity’. The unionists have a terrible job trying to remember that word ‘oppportunity’ in regards to that quote when they insist on using it! It was thought that that might be the only opportunity that came Scotland’s way to get self-determination. Well, a second ‘opportunity’ HAS come and there is absolutely no good reason why that opportunity to decide whether we leave the EU or the UK union shouldn’t be given to Scotland.
And in case you bring up that old chestnut that the whole UK voted ‘leave the EU’ is not correct either. Four Equal Partners voted in that Referendum whether ‘leave’ people like it or not. Two Equal Partners said Leave and two Equal Partners said ‘Remain’. And now the biggest Equal Partner continues to bully the ‘Remain’ Partners into leaving. Well for all the talk of democracy by the unionist parties, it seems that that is all it is – just all talk! If they truly believed in such a thing as democracy, they would be happy to have another go at asking the people of Scotland what they want. Elections and Voting for policies so huge as Brexit & Indy SHOULD BE the thing to do to get consensus! It seems to me in resisting, the ‘no’ are leerie about losing… Otherwise what is there to fear in letting Scotland speak?
If that last IndyRef was ‘quite decisive’ and the UK is no different today to that of 2 1/2 years ago, then there will be no problem about ‘no’ winning the second Ref. So what is the problem here exactly? The fact is – Brexit is a BIG DEAL and Scotland should have a say over whether they want to live in post-Brexit UK or not. Scotgov respected the last Independent Referendum – and stayed in the UK. Now I think it behooves the ‘no’ people to respect the EURef decision of Scotland and let Scotland decide which union they wish to be a part of.
Fred – Your experiences within a mutual masturbation society is not something we would wish to share. It’s a strange turn of phrase in an otherwise intelligent and considered exchange of views. That type of disregard for the views of others only strengthens the Independence push. It’s juvenile and shows a lack of any balance.
You state that “all indications are that people in Scotland are not bothered..” flies in the face of the most recent survey by ORB-International and published by the Telegraph – though they ‘accidentally’ left that data out of the article the data – that showed 52.7% showed in favour of a referendum. Must have been an “honest error” on the Telegraph’s part.
These debates deserve solid argument and debate not simplistic ad hominem insults because people have different views.
I feel that it is a bad choice of word to use the term enemy in this context. It’s not a war and a respected and influential person like you ought not to use the language of war,
For seven or more years,
there have been forces trying to break up Syria, it has descended into terrible war crimes, no solution, yet on the cards.
If Syria is in a “civil” war,
it could be said that be aiming to break up The United Kingdom will be the start of a “civil” war.
Is this what the majority of people want?
How is it a civil war to defend a country against outside aggressors?
Ever heard of Ukraine?
Since when has a nation deciding by a peaceful democratic vote to exercise its own National Self Determination been called a civil war?
If Westminster should to consider thwarting the democratic will of the People of Scotland then I would point out that Westminster is in no position to endure international economic sanctions that would inevitably follow.
Michael – Civil War? Seriously? I suggest a visit to your GP. Tell him I recommend 25ml /75ml Chlorpromazine to be taken until the fever and fantasies subside. In the meantime, you might want to lie down and breathe deeply
Or maybe get in touch with fred for some relaxation?
“It’s not a war”
Depends what you mean by war. The tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of Britons quite deliberately killed through government policy in the last seven years might disagree over definitions. In many cases Blair, Cameron and May combined seem to have decided that we are the enemy, whether we recognise it or not.
Sooooooooooooo Right, lets take charge and go for it.
British pound hits 10 week high as Saint Theresa May calls for early election
https://www.rt.com/business/385162-pound-may-election-brexit/
Sterling rose to the highest level since February after UK Prime Minister Theresa May announced she would seek to hold a snap general election on June 8.
Yes the Economy of
The United Kingdom has been doing quite well since the people of The United Kingdom voted for Brexit.
Or rather, the potential for overturning Brexit is what has led to a high for the pound. Second Brexit referendum is what the election is about.
The money changers grabbing a quick opportunity for short term profit. Busy gnomes. Wait for the relapse and the fall.
Lloyds ? where are they off to? Who’s next?
You are right ,of course,HBOS and RBS should have been allowed to go down the toilet.
Think mebbes the fact that the UK is still a member of the EU the EU single market the EU customs union the European Economic Area and the EU-US air transport agreement might be giving some support and bouyancy preventing sterling sinking like a stone?
After Brexit the Union is dissolved by Scotland and £150bn-£160bn of Scottish GDP is subtracted from sterling’s balance of payments then the markets could look a bit more critically at the currency?
IE sterling will be skinned alive on the trading room floor.
……But the FTSE 100 lost almost 2.5%.
It’s what we call “Dead Man’s Bounce” People buying in at a low. If you bothered to actually follow the city you would also note that today £46bn wiped off FTSE 100 in worst day since Brexit vote. it’s still lower than it was before Brexit vote. Don’t celebrate. This is bad news for everyone except eagle-eyed investors.
I agree with you 100% lets make this election about a Declaration of Independence if a majority of SNP MP are returned to Westminster.
Ruth-less Davidson, has threatened to march her Tories out of Holyrood if Sturgeon tries to force a second indyref through parliament.
Davidson added we’ll leave the chamber and do constituency work.
Well that will be first.
What if Corbyn tries to block May’s attempt to hold a GE using the Fixed Term Parliament act.
Corbyn could say to May, “Now is not the time.”
Now where have I heard that before. ?
Well you won’t be hearing it from Corbyn, that’s for sure Ros.
He’s not even a paper tiger. Not even a mouse. A paper mouse more like it.
reel guid.
I think May’s taking a big risk, even though Labour are at rock bottom at the moment. I’d say the Labour seats that are left are mostly safe seats (excluding Scotland) and with Brexit being what it is a complete economical shambles, May could find the tables turning on her.
Voters could decide to punish her party for a whole host of reasons to do with exiting the EU- nevermind domestic policies.
Maybe Ros. But the Tories are so well ahead in the polls. They even managed the rare feat of a government gaining a seat in a by-election at Copeland. Labour’s seats in the south are probably safe. But with UKIP semi-sidelined the Tories could take quite a few from Labour in the north of England. After all Copeland is in the north.
Guid,
No point following any polls on this one, all polling companies are pro EU, allowing may to believe she is safer than she is would suit their cause.
He has already said he’s up for it.
Agree 100%. We should never have abandoned the stance that, if over 50% of Scottish seats are won by SNP, that would be a mandate to start negotiations for Independence!
What is there to negotiate? Take your oil, Tony Blair and RBS and away you go.
Don’t fall for the SNP lie that the average person cares one way or another whether Scotland is independent. It is hard to negotiate with people who just don’t care.
Ms. Nicola Sturgeon blasts Saint Theresa May’s decision to call an early general election
as “one of the most extraordinary U-turns in recent political history”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4421380/Nicola-Sturgeon-criticises-Theresa-early-election.html#ixzz4ebtQlmcn
The leader of the Scottish National Party vowed to “STAND UP 4 SCOTLAND”
as the United Kingdom goes to the polls in June.
This should rattle the snakes out of the trees.
Completely agree. No country got its independence by asking for it. We need to return a majority of pro-independence MPs from Scotland and then declare independence.
This is completely it:
“A simple majority of Scottish MPs should be enough for a mandate – after all a simple majority of UK MPs is enough to give Theresa May vast powers to continue her arrogant style of rule.”
So if 50 + percent of the voting public of Scotland don’t want Scotland to leave the United Kingdom
you still think the scumbag self-serving S. N. P. should make the decision for the voters?
You are out of the woodwork with this one, The voters in Scotland make the decision. Democracy is alive in Scotland. It would be much healthier if the BBC and MSM were not so sick and afflicted of course.
Well said kailyard
Get a Grip michael
What Scumbags, Sorry WAR Mongers do you prefer
I wonder if the electorate of Scotland understand that they have the gun the wrong way round and that the barrel is pointing directly at their own heads.
It is a racing certainty that the SNP understand this – and yet still they urge the voters to pull the trigger. The current crop of politicians appear as faithful disciples to Tony Blair, the most (in)famous Scottish politician of all time.
Even the worst figures show we have a higher GDP per Capita than France. Your views are simply views when bereft of facts
I’d argue that this monumental blunder by May changes nothing on our road to Independence.
If this is indeed EU Ref2, then nothing that has happened since June 24th ’16 will influence the 62%-38% return Up Here. in fact, there is a view that we Scots citizens are much more informed about the disastrous implications of Brexit now.
No trade deal, EU citizens used as bargaining chips, and so on. Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis and Amber Rudd, and indeed May as Prime Minister are game changers too. Nobody voted for that Cabinet in 2015 after all.
If anything some may be persuaded to reconsider their original Leave vote, and change tack, and vote accordingly in this farce GE.
There is no doubt that the Pro Independence candidates will once again triumph, and any chance to kick Mundell Murray and Carmichael out of their sinecures has some merit, if only to see the back of this triumvirate of chancers.
No matter the outcome, the Scottish Government has a mandate to hold another Independence Referendum, within the timescale of the Brexit talks. If it’s not broke, why fix it?
All this talk of violence and civil war is of course nonsense. Scotland is not Syria.
A UK GE in June will be one monumental expensive waste of time.
Eye on the prize, guys.
How on Earth will the half of Scots that want to remain part of the union feel to a unilateral Declaration of Independence?
Many SNP supporters also supported Brexit so the SNP don’t carry their supporters as strongly as you imply. It’s just not democratically legitimate to deny people a clean vote. This is a fact whether it be Westminster refusing one or the SNP refusing one and instead declaring independence in the name of 50% of the population of Scotland.
The SNP can campaign in the election on the basis that a vote for them is a vote for independence. Just make it entirely clear. The point is that May already shows no signs of ‘allowing’ Scotland that second referendum and an incoming Tory government with a massive majority in Westminster will probably block any such attempt for a decade or more while they’re in power. Alternatively the SNP campaign on the basis that they will immediately call a referendum – with or without Westminister ‘permission’ – if they win the majority of votes in Scotland, and will declare independence if and when that referendum is won.
Actually I think Sturgeon and the SNP will simply fight the GE on the mess the Tories have created. Keep May guessing about what the Scottish Government will eventually do as regards the indyref. I see Craig’s point of making the election into indyref2. On the other hand the sight of May with a 90 to 100 seat Tory majority – reminiscent of Thatcher’s big 1983 and 1987 majorities – would mean a big increase in support for independence.
Europe is in the throes of Massive change.
INDYREF1
INDYREF2
INDYREF3
INDYREF4
Hard Brexit, FRANCE to be divided between Extreme-Right-Wing and Extreme-Left-Wing both against the European Union and the Euro.
Germania to the polls, Italy and Greece both in Crisis, this is probably the crmbling year for the E.U.
HMS Brexitania, will sink before the EU does.
Currently 44 per cent of the UK’s exports – £220bn out of £510bn – go to the EU which are currently tariff-free.
The bungling Brexiteers haven’t a hope in hell of making up the lost trade with the EU, which is tariff free.
Spot on. There is no plan. Not even the old Tory one, on the back of a cigar-box.
So you think that, after Brexit, the EU will simply refuse to trade with us?
Strong words but absolutely correct
Time to choose, for those who have a dog in the fight, independence? Or Tory rule?
Do Scots really want another five years of Tory rule, a party that the majority of Scots didn’t or won’t vote for?
2017 is expected to be a CRUNCH year for European banks, expect them to go down like ninepins,
2007-8 is not over.
General election: Arron Banks to stand against former Ukip MP Douglas Carswell in Clacton
Theresa May seems to be a master strategist, she outflanks Sturgeon at every move.
Sturgeon has to go for it this time or she will look liley – livered to the Scottish people.
When it comes to safeguarding Scotland’s interests Sturgeon has always, and always will, go for it.
You’re not quite right about Czechia and Slovakia. Maybe, a referendum held in both components of an entity contemplating a binary split is not the same as a referendum held solely in the component contemplating independence from the other. But it’s still a referendum on independence: of 2 countries instead of 1.
I can’t really add anything about the situation in Scotland, except that the independence referendum was close, and now we have Brexit, and now we have a general election with a genuine socialist as leader of the Labour Party. It’s a real ball of wool.
For those whom say that Labour under Corbyn doesn’t have a chance in the forthcoming general election…
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/majority-british-people-support-jeremy-corbyn-policies-report-17041612652
Let’s suppose that Corbyn does become the next prime minister: surely that will change a lot of attitudes in Scotland?
Real ball of wool is about right. Since Corbyn is about as threatening to the British establishment as a fluffy kitten.
But according to the poll released this weekend (see my link above) more than half the British public support Corbyn’s policies; and for a fluffy kitten, Corbyn has had an unprecedented amount of flak from the presstitutes.
The Establishment are absolutely terrified of Jeremy Corbyn, just like they are absolutely terrified of Jean Luc Mélenchon.
The first round of the French presidential election is next Sunday. On the 4th of May we have local elections in the UK. Shortly after there’s the final round of the French presidential election, and also a presidential election in South Korea (in which the favourite is anti-American).
Now we have the icing on the cake: a UK general election in early June.
We are in for some interesting weeks ahead.
Do you think we’ve spent decades fighting to replace Labour just to get behind it again? Couldn’t care less who leads it now or ever. If the Tooting Popular Front like Wolfie Smith bully for them. England has values & makes choices based on those values we can’t live with. It is a foreign country to us. We have to go ASAP & be free to be ourselves.
Corbyn isn’t going to win. He’ll be slaughtered, again, by the right wing press, maybe or maybe not aided and abetted this time by the liberal press. The Guardian etc. did the damage when he was elected and re-elected. At the same time, trying to push the Liberal Party will be ineffective, splitting the non-Tory/UKIP vote at best.
Welcome to UKIP Britain in June. Scotland really does need to get out while it can.
I do seem to recall on many occasions commentators referring to those backing Scottish independence as “Enemies of the state. That is the British nationalist’s position and it comes from their side of the fence. They are not our friends and our friends are not our enemies. Does anyone in their right mind see tanks coming across the border, and how would old England look then poor thing, and how would poor England look then? Especially as they are almost an international pariah already. The Queen of England would have to say something and the Queen of Scots would be out of a job leading to loss of Westminster’s sovereignty over Scotland. One cannot eat ones cake and yet retain it. It’s against the laws of physics.
Interesting point of view from Deutsche Bank : –
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/854328227053096962
Gambling on a Tory victory, this then effectively gives the Tory Party 3 years to “sell” a transitional deal with the EU (as opposed to 1 year had they stuck to the fixed term). The kind of transitional deal that is not actually transitional because, having stared into the abyss, the people of the UK with be even less likely to go for a full blooded Brexit.
Half in Europe – still run by Europe so to speak, but without the citizen perk of FoM. Still, the financiers and big business will be pleased, which is probably why Sterling has been boosted a tad.
Yes, you’re right Craig, the logic is perfect. If May is calling the election as effectively a plebiscite on hard Brexit, then the SNP can equally claim the election as a vote on independence in Scotland.
It saddens me that the left in England and Wales are likely to be devastated, but fluidity also means a need to change, and Labour (or the left) so far has failed to respond adequately to the present in a number of ways, including at a deep constitutional and political level, failing to recognize the final demise of Empire or respond strongly enough to the fake attempts to revive it through the May government’s appeasement to global despots, actual and would-be (now apparently including herself).
We already have a mandate for Independence through the Scottish parliament, this charade is meaningless
Actually you haven’t. The SNP didn’t campaign on a manifesto of calling another referendum and they didn’t get a majority. Claiming a mandate is stretching it.
Nonsense. The mandate is clear, accepted by the majority of Scots, and has just been approved by the Scottish parliament. did you miss the opinion polls showing an overwhelming majority of Scots saying that Westminster should butt out and that it was entirely a matter for Holyrood when and under what conditions #indyref2 is held? Stun us with another! 😀
Did you miss all the polls saying that the people of Scotland do not want another referendum before Brexit is concluded?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed_second_Scottish_independence_referendum#On_whether_another_referendum_should_be_held
Self determination?
Nice try, but again, no cigar. Those polls don’t really support your point. A couple exclude 16-17 year olds and can therefore be discounted as not using the correct proposed electorate, others mention holding it in the next year which nobody was or is proposing. as the First Minister said, the earliest is likely to be autumn 2018. Given events since many of these polls were taken, events since and the prospect of decades of Tory rule I wouldn’t bet on folk opposing one. Even if they did, it hardly matters as the Scottish Government have a mandate, permission from Holyrood and demonstrable support from Scots who oppose Westminster trying to interfere by much larger majorities than those shown in the polls you quote saying they don’t want a second indyref in a timeframe nobody was suggesting having it anyway. Awkward for what passes for your case, huh? ;-D
I understand, the only polls you consider valid are the ones that say what you want them to say and the only referendums you consider valid are the ones that give the result you want.
“We must stay ahead of the game. We must not fight on the enemy’s chosen ground. We can turn this election around and use it to gain our national freedom.”
And now you are a fully-fledged Scot we south of the border must tell the electorate at the doorstep just why this election has been called. It is because of the Tory election expenses fraud which is set to find several MPs under close scrutiny over previous elections and in danger anyway of losing their seats. Her purpose is to try and get a majority before these dirty deeds are available to all, to preempt the decision of the lawmakers. I would not be surprised if some are asked to stand down.
http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/03/05/tory-election-fraud-prosecutions-could-be-started-within-weeks/
Congratulations, Murray, and thanks for your concise article! Perhaps, many of us could attempt to echo these points – but who needs to elaborate the real and simple truth?!
Always spot on ,like your point of view ….
The onus is on the SNP here to be specific in their independence goal in their manifesto, putting all ‘mandate’ issues to bed.
Hilarious posts from the unionist brigade, some including sexual innuendo in their ‘logic’ – perhaps giving the reader an insight to their hobbies! ?
Furthermore, did not Margaret Thatcher herself say that, if ever Scotland elected a majority of MPs who supported independence, this would be enough for Scotland to become independent?