I expect some criticism for saying this. But allowing terrorism to disrupt our democratic processes incentivises terrorists. Personal attention seeking, and the idea that their self-sacrifice will have an impact on the world, is part of the deranged psychology that motivates suicide bombers. To suspend the election campaign again following another dreadful terrorist attack, actually will boost the prestige of the act in the eyes of their supporters and potential future terrorists. If we react in this way, we are promoting the chances of a wave of such attacks every time we have an election.
I abhor and condemn last night’s attack and am dreadfully sorry for all victims, dead and injured, and for their family and friends. But it would serve the memory of the dead better if we reacted by continuing calmly with our democracy, and showed that their killers cannot win, cannot affect us.
It’s also clear to see that spending £205bn on trident for our security is being spent in the wrong place, the money would be better spent on hour emergency services and NHS even although we can’t afford the £205bn in the first place.
Don’t be silly that’s a far too logical statement, you clearly don’t see that Trident is a deterrent, erm..unless of course you’re a terrorist. In which case Trident is as useful as a bicycle is to a fish.
I agree with you. This attack has killed and maimed innocent members of the public and I send my deepest sympathy to families and friends of the deceased and wish the injured a full and speedy recovery.
We cannot let terrorists win.
The Daily Mail hasn’t stopped its campaign against “Terrorist Sympathiser” Corbyn and promoting saint Teresa.
But the wider point that Craig avoids or doesn’t see is that politics causes terrorism. Terrorism is politics!
What Britain is helping the US to do in the Middle East wasn’t suspended.
OK lets call a cease fire but not everyone has to stop.
Labour and the Conservatives have brought about what is happening in the Middle East, Europe and Britain. If only one MP or hopeful candidate takes off their gag and tells it as it is, Our Politicians Are As Bad As The Terrorists, then that person deserves your vote.
None Party Political Broadcast Over
‘we are promoting the chances of a wave of such attacks every time we have an election.’
yes I had exactly the same thought when the news broke last night and after the announcement of suspension this morning. The confident brimming tone in Mrs. May’s voice this morning gave me the shivers, imho. there is a crass contrast to the dulcet tones and lack of energy she displays during campaigning.
I agree with the much interviewed Londoner this morning, ‘Londoners are not being used by terrorists, we carry on and the election should go ahead’. Fact is that under Mrs. May we have seen a string of terror attacks, coinciding with the GE here, we were bamboozled with MI5s friendship with trained Libyan killers, residing in Manchester, and we have seen the continuity she has provided by Mrs. Dicks orders of shoot to kill in the face of chaotic terror inflicted on the public.
much is made of what little time it took to shoot the three, surely this must be a record…..I expect Michael Fallon to make a point of that in the following days.
And now at 11.44 Mrs. May sounds like UKIP, by her response she is making about Iraq and how we must be far more robust abroad. Well, Mrs. May, the last success in Iraq is that of Kurdish soldiers fighting IS/Daesh and taking back the northern town of Tabqa and the largest dam in Iraq, people who do no cower to the money might of Saudi supporting these terror mercenaries hired by western interests, and they get on with their task.
Can the British public really stomach more of the same, should they be subjected to more unsafe responses and actions by our security services? when Mrs. May seems like a magnet to terror?
Is this the new prospect for the Brexit negotiations? will we see politically uncomfortable moments disrupted by terror?
Mrs. May should now ask the Saudi’s to stop the wages of these trained killers and to stop injecting their terror goals into our daily life’s, to help make up their minds she should stop all arms sales to that country, and encourage her hand holding cousin, Trump, to do the same, immediately.
“The confident brimming tone in Mrs. May’s voice this morning gave me the shivers, imho. there is a crass contrast to the dulcet tones and lack of energy she displays during campaigning.”
Perhaps she had already had sight of this Nowcast poll? I have never heard of them before but polling is not something I understand. https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/871368634500861952
I didn’t see May’s speech but from reading many comments it is clear she used the speech as an electioneering opportunity despite agreeing to a pause in campaigning.
IS reversed started in September 2015 when the Russians intervened in Syria and bombed the vast convoys of tankers making their way from Iraq and Syria to Turkey. The final blow came when the border between IS and Turkey were severed by the Syrian army thus cutting the weapon supply and jihadists supply to IS through Turkey. The latest news is the liberation of Jarah airfield and yesterday of Masksna by the SAA. Why is everyone so coy about acknowledging the fact that the SAA with the help of the Russians is equally important in defeating IS?
Still don’t see any tolerance of terrorism, as Britain keeps doing it, especially in the Middle East, creating all kinds of victims whose survivors become terrorists because of their losses or the massive injusttices of others rather than just their religious beliefs.
Time for stopping the carnage instead of thinking we just have to get our counter terrrorism efforts correct.
How much more of it will the populace take?
You cannot continue your wars, and expect to live in peace.
We know nothing yet about these murderers. But on previous experience it will be very surprising if they are victims of any sort of serious injustice.
That’s rich when we are not even told who they are, so we can check for our selves!
Until I get their names, I shall have to be satisfied with how Bahrain, whose tortueres Britain supports, traet prisoners there according to what immigrants from there have told a panel at Yarl Wood about it.
The husbands of the women at the British immigrant center were on death row in Bahrain..
These events are disrupting the General Election and it appears timed to help the conservative campaign after a big drop in their poll lead, but this could be a coincidence as the social care debacle was presumably not anticipated and these events take some time to organise. As a Leave voter my fear was the General Election was called to crush Corbyn and secure a majority to push for WWIII which these events seem to confirm.
Saturday 3 Jun: 84 killed.
Mosul: 74 by IS trying to flee; 7 children died of smoke inhalation from the bombing.
Karma: 2 brothers by IED.
Baaj: 1 executed.
Friday 2 June: 55 killed
Mosul: 46 bodies; 8 killed trying to escape.
Baghdad: 1 body.
Thursday 1 June: 42 killed
Mosul: 29 executed; 7 killed by mortar shelling.
Baquba: 3 by IEDs.
Hit: 2 by IED.
Khalis: 1 child by IED.
Wednesday 31 May: 150 killed
Mosul: 56 executed; 60 found in mass grave; 16 killed by government airstrikes and shelling; 13 family members by coalition airstrike; 3 by gunfire.
Qandil mountains: 2 by Turkish airstrikes.
MAY TOTAL: 1,871 civilians killed.
Tuesday 30 May: 238 killed
Mosul: 200 civilians are thought to be buried under rubble after coalition airstrikes over Zanjili.
Baghdad: 7 killed in four separate bombings.
Hit: 6 by suicide bomber at checkpoint.
Hawija: 10 executed.
Baaj: 12 executed.
Muqdadiya: 3 killed by IED outside mosque.
Monday 29 May : 39 killed
Baghdad: 31 by car bombs.
Shirqat: 6 (inc 4 children) by missiles, drone strike.
Aziziyah: 1 by IED.
Tuz Khurmato: 1 by gunfire.
Sunday 28 May: 78 killed.
Mosul: 52 executed in different locations; 20 by coalition airstrikes.
Baquba: 3 by suicide bomber.
Kara Tepe: 2 by gunfire.
Baghdad: 1 by gunfire.
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/recent/
Never use Iraq Body Count. They’re unreliable, relying only on English-language reports.
So they’re an underestimate?
Whether campaigning is suspended or not, The Amber Rudd Party will be given a disproportionate amount of election coverage.
I will not take my Labour party sticker off my lapel, and if asked about their goals I will not stop talking about it, sod you Mrs. may.
A friend of mine went to North Norfolk for three days and said that it is a sea of yellow up there, they seem to like Norman Lamb’s policies more than Michael Fallons apprentice/stooge Mr. Wilde.
Clive lewis in Norwich south will keep his seat if some of the Greens, some 8% last time, vote for him.
I’m now out doing some more public consultation, in a pub with a nice pool table.
“sea of yellow”
” overwhelming waft of pig slurry ” is what I remember in N Norfolk, starts as soon as you get onto the A14 off the M1/M6 junction and finishes if you travel Eastwards at the North Sea. Also some fine collections of steam engines. Maybe the locals’ eyes and noses are de-sensitised like ours in Birmingham to the glare of sodium. And there’s another good pun wasted which I could have used to describe the Liberal party but the smell talks for itself without my poetry.
Hear hear Craig. I agree with you 100%. My sincere condolences to all concerned, but suspending democracy is not the way to go. If you do that, the terrorists have won.
I have been following developments in the latest slayings on CNN, BBC World, i24News, etc and am pleased to note that the Mayor of London – who is, in my opinion, a true man of the people (not one of the Islington brigade) – has used the words “terrorists” and “terrorism” in his statements.
I am now looking forward with keen anticipation to seeing whether Mr Jeremy Corbyn will finally bring himself to use the same words when commenting.
One does rather get the impression – judging by his utterances so far on previous attacks – that the man would prefer to have all his teeth extracted rather than use the words “terrorism” and “terrorist”.
Shameful !
What is shameful, or would be if you had the capacity to think or feel, is the continual attempt to replace reasoned discourse with emotive jingoism, presumably to prevent discourse and therefore any possibility of democratic expression.
I think Mr Corbyn’s response to this atrocity was dignified and appropriate. I cannot say the same for Mrs May who decided to use a terrible event to revive her flagging election campaign by launching onto a Party Political Broadcast today!
The woman doesn’t have an ounce of respect for the dead and injured. Her speech was reckless and dangerous . She cynically exploited the situation and that is disgusting.
Yes, Sadiq Khan, what a good little Brownite egg he became, elected under BLiar in 2005.
How Sadiq Khan voted on Foreign Policy and Defence #
Voted a mixture of for and against use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas Show votes
3 votes for, 3 votes against, 1 absence, between 2010–2015
Consistently voted against investigations into the Iraq war Show votes
1 vote for, 8 votes against, between 2006–2009
Generally voted for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system Show votes
2 votes for, 0 votes against, 3 absences, between 2007-2015
Generally voted for more EU integration Show votes
39 votes for, 5 votes against, 22 absences, between 2006–2016
Voted a mixture of for and against a referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU Show votes
1 vote for, 5 votes against, 7 absences, between 2008–2016
Generally voted for strengthening the Military Covenant Show votes
2 votes for, 0 votes against, 2 absences, between 2010–2012
Generally voted against military action against ISIL (Daesh) Show votes
1 vote for, 2 votes against, between 2014–2015
and the recipient of large donations for his mayoral campaign, many from property companies/developers.
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/regmem/?p=11878
In his favour, a signatory to this letter to BLiar in August 2006.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4786159.stm
which was rubbished by the execrable Howells on BLiar’s instructions presumably.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4787119.stm
Khan, good at spotting the main chance.
My thoughts exactly. The message they receive is they are powerful enough to suspend our democracy. This will spur them on to commit further acts of terrorism, seeking to exceed the noteriety of their predecessors and weaken our trust in our democratic values. All of us, irrespective of ethnic origins or beliefs, living our ordinary lives, utising our rights to go about our daily business, participating in our democratic processes is the only way forward.
“I abhor and condemn last night’s attack and am dreadfully sorry for all victims, dead and injured, and for their family and friends. But it would serve the memory of the dead better if we reacted by continuing calmly with our democracy, and showed that their killers cannot win, cannot affect us.”
@Craig – Just a presentational tip: change the “But” to an “And”. There is no conflict between your two statements.
(Jeremy Corbyn could do with similar advice.)
Imminently sensible comment. The ‘but’ word is hugely mis-used. I try to avoid it best as I can and often stop for a second to ponder whether ‘and’ in fact actually enhances the meaning.
At the same time going on unquestioningly is wrong. Not going to help much.
Can’t elections be spread out? So a political process can still take place, perhaps more effectively (democratically) and safer?
All this button pushing for political aims over a short period. It doesn’t make for people getting very involved in a deep way does it. ?
There is little doubt that Anglo-American foreign policy is immoral, wicked and wrong at almost every level. It is likely that current Anglo-American foreign policy is providing bogus but useful justification for the current wave of crazed jihadists.
However, history would suggest that a change in foreign policy will do little to change the ideology of the crazed killers. Take for example the torture and murder in 1606 of the Sikh Guru Arjan who was killed by Muslims..
In 1675 the Sikh Guru Tegh Bahadur was publicly beheaded by Muslims for refusing to convert to Islam. During his life he offered assistance to Hindu’s to resist forced conversion to Islam.
None of these examples can possibly have anything to do with current (or even past) Anglo-American foreign policy.
There were never forced conversions to Islam for Hindus or others who had the status of “protected” peoples. It was illegal. What you’re telling us is Sikh mythology about themselves, not real history. Much like most “martyrdoms” of Christian saints. Those are nearly all wildly overblown.
Sure, it is possible that Sikh writers have a view of history that is favorable to themselves.
I have never heard your particular argument before – obviously that could mean that I am ignorant as opposed to you being wrong. However, here is Wikipedia which is a non Sikh source and broadly speaking independent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Tegh_Bahadur
This accords with the view that I attempted to enunciate. If this is wrong then you are best advised to take it up with Wikipedia, along with substantially every other independent and non biased source.
“However, here is Wikipedia which is a non Sikh source and broadly speaking independent.”
Are you joking? You cannot be that naive that you do not know how Wiki works. That article was evidently written by a Sikh, and very possibly on an official basis by Sikh Central at Amritsar.
OK, so you consider a non Sikh source to be a Sikh source. What can I do and what can I say?
Maybe you could explain just how far the Sikh infiltration of Wikipedia extends. Here is a Wikipedia entry for Wichita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita,_Kansas
Help me out, which bits of this have been modified by Sikh’s?
‘Illegal’ laguerre? Please advise to which law(s) you are referring?
I’m no expert and not in the mood to start researching, BUT afaik the Sikhs in fact came into being as a force to protect the Hindus. I have heard that each Hindu family in Punjab was asked to contribute one son from the family to the newly created force which then evolved into a religion.
OK, I’ll explain it to you. At the beginning of Islam, the majority religions of the Middle East were declared “protected” religions. That is Christianity, Judaism, and later Zoroastrianism in Iran. Those people had the right to continue in their religion, against the payment of a supplementary poll tax, which was called jizya. It is why there are Christians and Jews in the Middle East today. Conditions may not have been good (they weren’t for anybody, Muslims too), but they weren’t exterminated or forced to convert, as Christians did to others in Europe. The law once made couldn’t be rescinded, as holy law, and even ISIS today goes by that law (though I’m not sure I would want to trust my life to that). Note that it does not apply to other non-specified religions, who can be killed or forced to convert, such as pagans, but there were and are not too many of those. When Islam entered India, Hinduism was added to the list. At the heart, it was a question of practicality, but it became enshrined in holy law.
Whenever you see claims of forced conversion by Islam, it’s nearly always propaganda by their opponents, who frequently practised forced conversion themselves. Like the Catholics in Spain and Sicily, who forced Muslims to convert. Obviously there are a lot of wrinkles in 1400 years of worldwide history, and people didn’t always behave legally, but the basic legal principle is that. And surprising how much it was stuck to.
And before you bring up cases like the Yazidis, they are considered heretics of Islam by Da’ish. That’s another matter altogether, the treatment of deviant Islam by strict Wahhabi-style fundamentalist Sunnis.
And before you bring up cases like the Yazidis, they are considered heretics of Islam by Da’ish. That’s another matter altogether, the treatment of deviant Islam by strict Wahhabi-style fundamentalist Sunnis.
Aren’t you forgetting the very much larger mainstream branch of Islam, the Shi’a? If the salafists will attack Shi’a, and they do, then it’s a bit pointless appealing to the Book exemption on behalf of Christians, isn’t it?
IMO this is the Islamic version of the Protestant Reformation. And it is no more tolerant of reason or opposition.
Ba’al Zevul
I didn’t want to go into the full history of Islam. I was just giving examples. Yes, the Shi’a are a major target of Da’ish, and the Saudis.
This is a rather selective view of history. People have been tortured and killed by the Spanish enquisition but that doesn’t mean that Catholicism is a terrorist religion.
You need the historical context. The current instability in the ME started in 1917 with the Balfour declaration and the Sykes Picot agreement when GB and France treated the ME as personal possessions. I will not review everything but peaks of this are the formation of the state of Israel, the Anglo French Israeli invasion of Egypt in 1956, the toppling of the democratically elected Mossadagh in 1953, the demonisation of Nasser and so on. Even the imposed monarchies of KSA originally also imposed on Iraq and Syria from tribal leaders are cases in point.
None of this justifiesy any of these irrational barbaric acts but it has left citizens of the ME with a frustrated nationhood and sense of dispair and dispossession which in addition to the current regimes, supported by us, makes fertile grounds for the extremists. It would also take too long to explain the history of collusion between Islamic fundamentalists and succeive British governments and of course the total support for the Wahhabis of KSA. If you are interested read Mark Curtis and also Craig’s books.
I agree entirely,
we shouldn’t set a precedent where terrorists can cancel elections by committing atrocities,
The election is not being cancelled.
Unless of course Corbyn takes the lead in the polls.
These culprits do not believe in democracy in the slightest. It matters not one whit whether they were born here or not, or what passports they hold. They are twisted jihadists at war. The fact that they would repeatedly target innocent people is a full-frontal attack means they are alien to our culture. There are more amongst us. And in some ways the second generation have a greater sense of entitlement combined with confused identities. I doubt very much they are trying to influence the outcome of the election. They are savages who want to kill our freedoms. The security services are going to have to double and redouble their efforts, there is no way out. Welcome to the era of urban war in our liberal democracy.
25,997 more. And those are just the known ones.
There is no need to worry the UK intends carrying on exactly as normal with nominal leaders continuing to spew forth ludicrous lies all emanating from their deranged view of the world.
The Mayor of London continues to reassure people that London is the safest global city in the world. Presumably he has never heard of Tokyo, or does not consider Tokyo to be a global city, or if asked to explain (which he definitely will not be) will start talking about earthquakes.
I think if we had a more meaningful democratic (stable) process we’d be far less a target on many levels, not just via mob like election events that last a short time, susceptible to those who pray on division and instability.
Actually finding a way to strengthen that political process. That’s what we should do.
Well, said, Craig. Corbyn, May, Davidson, Dugdale and Rennie won’t mind a 24 break from being exposed on TV and ‘found out’; the shallowness of their election campaigns and manifestos beggars belief..
Madness stalks these isles.
I totally , totally , totally agree with you … but by suspending the election not only does it give these scum some sort of perverse credibility and by doing so they will be now be even more justified in their eyes to commit even more atrocities ( as happened last night) but also it creates an unfairness to the parties who had not launched their manafestos at the time of the postponment of the Campaigns….. well said… Ian Forrester
Agree but also now irrelevant as May has clearly unsuspended the electoral campaign and cynically politicized the attack.
She needs, therefore, to be held fully account for her record with respect to the Middle East and UK policing.
Still just going on about the endlesslly tired efforts by the same iofficials which have not worked.
Of course, nothing about the huge, new Royal Navy Base in client state Bahrain to fight ISIS and keep the oil routes open.
Another daft post about another reported so called ‘terrorist attach’ on the innocent citizens of the UK who voted for politicians who voted to bomb Afghanistan, Libya, Iraq, Syria….VOTE LABOUR!
my condolences to all the injured in last nights incident , you could almost write the script of the reaction of this government over the next few days , electioneering suspended again ,while we get the PM and a succession of tory ministers on every news broadcast , the subliminal message there dosnt go unnoticed , they haven’t suspended anything it’s just they expect everyone else to shut up .
If we had a searching investigative media they would be asking serious questions of this government and the failure or the security services questions were asked as to the involvement of MI5 after the Manchester bombing , these were quickly shut down , and the attention was thrown on corbyn and his supposed support of the IRA , any questions regarding arms sales to Saudi arabia were also shut down, that fool Boris who just weeks ago was caught out blurting out the truth about that regime , This government takes everyone for fools , the link in our involvement in the middle east is there for all to see , when corbyn raised the issue the right wing media jumped on him and branded him a terrorist sympathiser , this constant war is not working , well it might suit some ,but ordinary people are paying the price , I believe there is no dark place this lot will not visit to get their way , rant over .
Rest asurred the attackers will be known to the security services. They will also conveniently (for the benefit of the security services) have on them ID.
Later on some foreign security agency, will say that they had already warned the British security services of the activities of those men.
“If we had a searching, investigative media….”
And there’s our biggest problem.
I think that to pause is necessary. Not pausing is also a win for them. It’s important to acknowledge the loss, consciously, or life becomes as disposable to you as it does to them. You pause, and then you live better and more than you would have before.
allowing terrorism to disrupt our democratic processes incentivises terrorists.
Abso bloody lutely. The Office of Ba’al Zevul 100% endorses this. Let the bastards think they’re changing anything, and they’ve won.
However, we face a problem with the media, who are all over atrocities like acne. Perhaps a a 10 column-centimetre limit on print, and a 30-second limit on broadcast media needs to be imposed for anything in which terrorism is involved? That’s pretty well the limit of the actual news coverage anyway, the rest is opinion and speculation.
And now May’s playing into the IS narrative for all she’s worth. The correct response, as it ever has been, is:
http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server2100/da4a7/products/492/images/20/KEEP-CALM-POSTER-LOW_large__78588.1291468232.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
London attack: 12 arrested in Barking after van and knife incidents
‘Twelve people have been arrested after the London terror attack which left seven people dead and 48 injured.
The arrests in Barking, east London, followed a raid at a flat belonging to one of the three attackers.
A white van hit pedestrians on London Bridge at about 22:00 BST on Saturday, then three men got out and stabbed people in nearby Borough Market. They were shot dead by police minutes later.
Condemning the attack, Theresa May said it was “time to say enough is enough”.
Controlled explosions were also carried out at the flat in Barking on Sunday morning.
According to neighbours, the dead attacker had lived there for about three years and was married with two children.’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40148737
Keep Rollin. Rollin. Rollin. Rawhide….
Keep them dawgies movin…..
Move ’em out. Hit ’em up
Round them up!
Rawhide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KPplYp7K7M
May we take it from your post that you feel every action surrounding a terrorist atrocity should be given the maximum publicity possible?
Let’s face it, the media and governments, in the widest sense, simply suck.
“But it would serve the memory of the dead better if we reacted by continuing calmly with our democracy, and showed that their killers cannot win, cannot affect us.”
It is also important to understand that the system of democracy in the west is far from perfect – especially under conditions of stress. Take for example the issue of capital punishment. There has been no direct vote on the restoration of capital punishment – mainly because politicians believe that in a free vote there might well be a majority in favor of capital punishment.
No legal system is perfect and capital punishment inevitably results in the execution of innocent people – and so there is merit in ignoring public opinion on this matter.
Politicians and “opinion formers” seem increasingly willing to ignore public opinion on an increasing range of matters – including the appropriate response to acts of random terrorism.
Here is an opinion, no doubt deeply offensive to many who read this blog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChjfFx_zLU
You don’t have to agree with the views expressed or respect the person delivering those views. It would be wise though to take a note of the number of views and to read some of the comments.
Unless someone comes forward with a more intelligent response to acts of terror then you are moving inexorably toward some form of civil war. It matters little who is right and who is wrong, who is racist and who is not. It matters only that this is an opinion that is radically different from official opinions and that this opinion would appear to have a degree of public support.