I have a confession to make. I kept my opinion of the SNP’s election campaign from you in order not to hurt the SNP during the campaign. I did however express it deep in James Kelly’s comments pages 12 days ago.
Yes, the SNP won the election in Scotland. 35 out of 59 seats is a clear majority. The Tories only have 13 Scottish seats. That is just 21% so there is no sense in which the Tories “won” Scotland. Do not believe the media lies.
But it remains the case that Theresa May is only able to cling on to No.10 because of the gains the Tories made from the SNP in Scotland. That is shameful and must be squarely faced.
There is a vital truth here. Support for Independence itself remains at almost exactly the same level as it was in 2015 when the SNP swept to 56 seats. Many opinion polls measured support for Independence during the campaign and their range was 42% to 54% for Independence.
So the SNP fall in MPs was not because of a drop in support for Independence. It was rather because the SNP failed the cause of Independence. Specifically they failed even to seek to present a radical and transformative view of what an Independent Scotland might look like.
In 2015 the SNP vote almost exactly equated to the level of support for Independence. Now the SNP vote underperforms Independence support by 10%.
This is not unfortunate. It is an entirely foreseeable consequence of a deliberate and wrong decision by the SNP leadership. They never once, at any time, made the case for Independence during the election campaign. Rather they fell straight into the trap laid by the unionists, of defending their government record in Holyrood.
Scotland’s lack of Independence leads to a constant drain on our resources in a massively London-centric economy. Our money is sucked down there and much of our best talent leaves to work in UK-HQ corporations and ministries based there. That is a different argument to the equally vital one that we are tied in to a neo-liberal austerity programme that prevents us from growing our economy, and to a number of completely inappropriate policies including on immigration.
Bound hand and foot by these constraints, the SNP has struggled at Holyrood – with very great skill – to manage matters as best they can to mitigate the Tory damage in Scotland, within the limited resources they are allowed. But this is utterly different to the situation if Scotland were an independent country and Holyrood a real parliament, and not what it actually is – a glorified regional council.
In this situation, where everything is stacked to ensure its failure, the SNP strategists boneheadedly accepted to fight on the enemy’s chosen ground. What the SNP offered in this election in no way stirred the blood, not even of their own supporters. The SNP did not mention the struggle for national freedom or the kind of country we will build if Independent. It rather attempts to win the support of the Scottish people by offering competent managerialism. “Don’t be scared, we are not nasty nationalists, we are harmless technocrats” is the line.
I hope the hard lesson of this election has been learned. You cannot manage Scotland with competence within the madhouse which is the Tory UK. You are on a hiding to nothing explaining that you can.
Yes it is indeed true that the media unfairly and deliberately, in every interview with Nicola Sturgeon, honed in on devolved matters irrelevant to a Westminster election. That was wrong of the media. But Sturgeon happily wandered around in their labyrinthine trap for long periods, providing lengthy and rational ripostes on educational attainment for 7 year olds. Above all, she emphasised it was not her who wanted to talk about a second referendum, it was that Ruth Davidson.
Sturgeon hotly denied she wanted to talk about Independence at all, saying only the Unionists kept bringing it up. It was a clever debating society point, but by refusing to make the case for Independence – and by appearing to concede it was a difficult area for her – Sturgeon was damaging the Independence cause and ultimately the SNP.
What Nicola Sturgeon should have done is the precise opposite of what she did do.
She should have taken every precious moment of TV time to outline the positive case for Independence, to declare her determination to achieve Independence, and to achieve it within the next Westminster parliament. She should have slammed Trident and slammed the British kowtowing to Saudi Arabia and to Donald Trump, and stated that Scotland should be an independent country with its own foreign and defence policy. She should have slammed austerity and Tory cuts and said that Scotland needs to be an independent country with its own economic policy that will look after its struggling, its disabled and its aged. She should have slammed Brexit and stated it is going to destroy the Scottish economy, and that Scotland needs to be an independent country within the EU.
Sturgeon did refer to all of these policy areas. But her entire dialogue was framed around how they should be tackled within a devolution settlement. Independence was almost entirely avoided as something that might scare the horses.
Much of The SNP campaign echoed the Tories in spin doctored meaninglessness. The pictures of activists holding up placards saying “Stronger for Scotland”, and repetition of the constant mantra about strengthening Nicola Sturgeon’s hand in talks, was just a mirror image of Theresa May. I find it worrying in principle and it was as electorally counterproductive as I knew it would be.
Nicola Sturgeon adopted a deliberate policy of being all things to all men. She ran a campaign designed to say the SNP can attract the votes of unionists and the votes of Brexiteers. She attempted a “mother of the whole country” routine. Putting out the message that anybody can vote SNP because it doesn’t believe in anything much, it is just competent. This was incredibly stupid. It did not work and it did not deserve to.
Anyone can see that there is a worldwide mood of insurgency against the neo-liberal establishment. The fantastic Yes street campaign was absolutely a part of that. Corbyn has grabbed that mood and ran an inspired insurgency campaign. A great many Independence supporters – including some of my family – voted Labour yesterday to support the Corbyn insurgency, after being active members of the Yes insurgency. They still support Independence.
But in an age of insurgency politics, for the SNP to choose to run its entire election campaign on the basis of being a safe managerial political establishment for Scotland, was such a crass decision that it beggars belief. Many radicals went to Labour, while many of those who do like a comfortable political establishment decided they would rather have the real Tory version.
I greatly fear that the SNP will now compound the error by backing away from the second referendum and pushing Independence even further to the back-burner. The SNP needs to do the opposite. It needs to rediscover the Spirit of Independence and reconnect to the Scottish people. And it needs to sack the great raft of highly paid, besuited, professional spin doctors and political advisers I see going in and out of SNP HQ every day (I live next door). They look indistinguishable from their New Labour and Tory cousins and are a class of people the Independence movement really does not need.
One little anecdote. I have a large balcony overlooking Dynamic Earth, in a very prominent position and busy area. I wandered in to SNP HQ to see if they could give me a really big banner or poster to put up. The place was absolutely crammed with besuited spin doctors talking earnestly to each other and very much looking down their noses at me, resenting my intrusion into their space. They had hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of spin doctors, but no poster bigger than a tiny A3. That says it all for me.
I voted for Tommy Sheppard. I did so with pride and I am delighted he is back in. After a period of semi-detachment from the SNP, I am going to be more active inside it to argue for a much more radical and definite attachment to Independence upfront and at all times. And to make sure that the SNP is a quick route to Independence, and not just a quick route to a political class career path. In practice, building any other vehicle than the SNP to carry forward the Yes movement would be almost impossible.
As an institution in itself, the SNP is a very successful institution. There is no denying it. But as a vehicle for actual Independence, it is stationary with the handbrake on, and as a vehicle for radicalism its battery is flat and it has become positively inert. But let’s not abandon it, let’s try a push start.
Is Sturgeon the right person for the job? Can she be the inspirational leader we need?
I have written to Sturgeon several times on factual matters that have affected me, only to get the same bullshit I have had from Tory and Labour politicians.
The difference is, the bullshit is more GLOSSIER now.
Of course the SNP now need a new Westminster leader. Tommy Sheppard would be a good choice. Or maybe Brendan O’Hara? Anyone got some other suggestions?
Aye, wee Johnny the barber.
Not sure how he would comb over at PMQs.
Hardly surprising that there is no mention of Catalonia going its own way over independence despite Madrid’s opposition.
The area has had a long history of wanting to leave whatever happens whlle Scotland flip-flops over what it really is, and what it wants.
Looks to me that a radical view by them rests far in the future. if ever, despite what outsider Craig wants to do within the SNP.
I agree with almost everything said on here. As an SNP member since old enough to be one, although now in my 70’s, Craig strikes a chord with me on spin doctors and their like. At the last Aberdeen October conference and observing senior SNP politicians who were not so hidden away as in other venues, I was very struck by the number of clones attending them who were either smartly dressed men in their pin stripe suits and ties or women in high heels and matching business jackets and skirts, all young of course with i phones clamped to heads and in serious conversation about things well above the understanding of ordinary members.
The SNP is on very dangerous ground right now and if another GE is called there is a real prospect of losing a lot more MP’s given the wafer thin majority many have. The SNP exists only to achieve independence, not to run a devolved government on unionist terms but should of course use Holyrood as a platform of power. Take education, yes it needs improved but should it turn out amazingly good a few years down the line, what will that do for independence, and something else will need improving anyway by that time?
While I absolutely agree with the need to push for independence at all times, I also believe Brexit creates a new short term dimension which is of concern to many Scottish voters. While I agree the SNP needs to re-focus, I think we should be very cautious until Brexit is over and simply try to hold ground until the fog completely clears.
There is little point in repeating what Craig has said but the SNP has made a serious error in not overhauling and improving communications with the SNP branch network, which was once the pivot around which the SNP operated. Ask any branch, enthusiastic members are not coming out to help in the numbers they once did and when they do, they are being asked questions on the doorstep to which the SNP have provided no answers. “Stronger for Scotland” is an utter waste of space and does nothing on the doorstep. Shouting “get the Tories out”, simply alienates the Tory voter and we are not against other parties’ voters; we need them.
Time for complete change, dismantle the rapidly built ivory tower and a re-think before it’s too late.
I agree with most all of this.
One lesson of the Labour Party success in South Britain is that instead of pussy-footing about with neo-liberal orthodox rhetoric which is mostly supportive of the policies which caused the crash of 2007/8 and led to the closing down of the economy through austerity, Jeremy Corbyn actually offered some alternative policy models. And some vision of hope.
If the SNP vision entails becoming neo-liberal (fascist), orthodox and technocratic it allies itself with the broken past. It really is not a vision but a memory. Rank capitulation.
Ruth Davidson (for whom I have little regard) played a blinder – she tapped into the almost universal fear of change. The SNP needs to tap into the much more visceral fear of things staying the same.
To paraphrase Henry Ford – If you don’t believe you can get independence you are probably right.
We have just witnessed political evolution take a backward step (something that evolution scientists say is impossible in nature) – the predatory Tory big cats have formed a coalition with the carnivorous DUP dinosaurs of a previous era.
Scotland had falls in voter turnout
https://cartocdn-gewd.global.ssl.fastly.net/bbc001/api/v1/map/bbc001@db6a006c@4e093500eca4071a9cd37894b48dcf26:1497041198161/1,2/5/16/9.png
In my area basically looks like the pro-independance vote can’t be bothered to even vote
labour stayed pretty steady, conservatives gain about 4,000 voters
SNP vote went down from 24,000 people voting for us in 2015 to just 14,000
turnout in 2015 60% – 2017 54%
if people can’t be bothered to go vote for us or to help our tight spend campaigns by actually spending some hours trying to get the vote out
by hey 15,000 turned up for the rally in Glasgow 2 weeks before the election, my god what I wouldn’t have given for just 1% of them to give 2 hours of delivering leaflets
Might actually be time that the independence movement looked a bit closer at it’s own commitment and zeal
We are shackled under fascistic Tory rule thanks to Tory Scots bigots. England must now endure a right-wing and racist Tory government it didn’t vote for.
Totally agree, and I am a member of the SNP. MSM debates should have been by Westminster MPs. Tommy Shepherd, Mhairi Black, Angus Robertson and Alex Salmond would have wiped the floor with Mundell, Murray and Carmichael. BBC/STV should have been forced to debate a General Election and not Holyrood.
Ps my agreement is with your article, Craig, and not with the above comments.
Nicola Sturgeon adopted a deliberate policy of being all things to all men and women… sadly Sturgeon acquiesced I believe to the British establishment and she needs to be liberated and recharged to spurn and gain immunity to the establishment assimilation. A body of these ‘collective’ lifeforms I list here to emphasise the damning plight of the neo-Hive mind:
Tristam Hunt – ..Wipeout?
Alastair Campbell – ..Wiped out?
Sadiq Khan – ..failed?
Stephen Kinnock – ..out of touch?
Philip Collins – ..preposterous?
Angela Smith – ..can’t carry on?
Harriet Harman – ..can’t do that?
Margaret Beckett – ..Regret?
Angela Eagle – ..Unable?
Jamie Reed – ..leave now?
Alan Johnson – ..new or fresh?
Chris Leslie – ..issue of confidence?
Hillary Benn – ..confidence in his leadership?
Tony Blair – ..No!?
I think the SNP were just drowned out by the loud, aggressive anti-independence rhetoric. Don’t think they did anything wrong. Maybe we need to be fully federal as a country in the uk. Remember it was Westminster who made the question for 2014 as independence vs no independence. That set the entire agenda and where we r today. There is a 3rd choice.
Now that May has lost, everything has to be thought through again. It’s almost unbelievable that we are entering Brexit talks with only one narrative, Hard Brexit, racist Brexit, which is a completely offensive one. The point about the EU is not that they are foreigners as Tories would have it, and we Brits detest all foreigners, dumbos amongst you please I am continuing in mad May mode for the purposes of illustration, not my own opinions. The problem is that people voted Leave because the EU is an unaccountable Federal organisation heel-bent on a racist agenda of its own, the neo-Liberal ransacking of its Muslim neighbours.
Spades must be called spades. We in the UK with our colonial pot of Muslims from India, have a much closer relationship with Islam than the EU Federal Union which is on the front line.
Craig refuses to accept the glaring truth that Mrs May’s ” completely inappropriate policies …. on immigration ” are not remotely representative of UK public opinion. I’ve never known a time when a mainstream political actually adopted racism as a policy, even for populist reasons. This is why May has lost, because she has the unique talent for assuming that her bigoted Tory view of the world is shared by the electorate without needing to even ask them why they voted to Leave. It is extremely embarrassing that the Emperor’s new clothes, i.e. bare xenophobic hate have not lost her her power. Now we will have to watch her parade in them for some time until someone with sufficient cash or clout within her party has the courage to point out she has nothing on.
As to Scotland, it’s not in my mind a crime for Corbyn to prefer the Union. I see nothing morally wrong in keeping a larger bargaining bloc in a competitive world. What is completely daft IMHO is for Craig to place on the one hand Kentish loutish racism which has existed in exactly the same form since Shakespeare’s account of it in Sir Thomas More and Tory toff racism into one basket and say that the English people are all racist bastards just because Mrs May tells him.
What need to happen now is that first May must go, then Nick Clegg must go because he is a EU Federalist, then someone who has his pulse on the sense and sensibilities of the decent, English people, from whatever party, starts to represent our views. If our political system is unable to deliver one single person who is capable of representing our views, and apparently in France it has also been impossible, then we should call a revolution. Problem is, in their heart of hearts politcians think that the political process is whereby they legitimise their dictatorial megalomania, while we think it’s about politicians representing our opinions.
Mrs May has made clear, like Blair, that she belongs to the former group of politicians that is in politicsd to impose top-down decisions , and Jeremy Corbyn represents the latter group, the ones who think their job is to find out what we want and implement it. There’s no point fashing about Scottish independence until we sort out this basic principle of political life. We demand our MPs to represent us in the democratic process, not to represent the vile opinions of political parties to us the citizens.
Extract on railway nationalisation.
Labour cannot renationalise its railways or Utilities if Britain is a member of the European Union (EU) and as such bound by the EU Treaties. Every British court is duty-bound to enforce every EU law in preference to any conflicting British statute. Under Article 106, the EU prohibits public monopolies exercising exclusive rights where this violates EU competition rules. The EU’s Court of Justice has interpreted Article 106 as giving private companies the right to argue before the national courts that services should continue to be open to private-sector competition. Nationalised services are prima facie suspect and must be analysed by the judiciary for their “necessity”. Thus the EU has given companies a legal right to run to court to scupper programmes of public ownership.
The fact that EU law has this effect may seem astonishing. Many on the Left seem unaware of it. Those fond of the EU tend to go into denial over it. Despite Greece, there is a tendency to deny the EU’s neoliberal policies.which favour the private Corporations.
Utter horseshit. Extract from what?
Why do you not go and check article 106 before jumping the gun in your remarks.
It would seem there is no diversion allowed from the script of EU altruism allowed here.
When an emotional issue, is treated as a political issue, it’s doomed.
There is no radical or managerial competence shown with the nationalist arguments to date. The economics of their arguments are muddled at best.
I can see no arguments that reveal, who the independence is for, who it is from, and who actually gets the benefits of this independence……business? bankers? bus drivers? butchers? bakers? blog authors?…_
That is socialism?
Is Nicola toast?
I am sorry that Angus Robertson is off the scene. He always put up a good show against May at PMQs.
Agree with you mostly but we really can’t ignore what the voters are telling us i.e they are tired of elections/referendums and general instability. Have Indyref now and we will lose. Better to wait till the disaster that will be Brexit fully sinks in and then offer the lifeboat. You are right to say SNP needs to stop managing Scotland within the Union for London and show promote a vision of a better, free Country but there are better ways to do this than a suicidal cloth eared push for a referendum that will simply be ignored. SNP should actually play the Unionists at they own game, take the paper powers they have at Holyrood and devolve it down to reorganised local councils. It’s smart politics and the right thing to do. What’s the point in repeating the damaging centralised UK model in an Independent Scotland? If we split the police up again that would be useful too, nobody blamed the SNP for the failings of Strathclyde police for example. Now they get the blame every time a phone call takes too long to get answered!
La Toynbee is on Any Questions saying sorry for misjudging Jeremy and for not believing in him. Just another rich neoliberal rowing back.
The repeat is on Radio 4 now followed by an hour long Any Answers.
The AQ panel:. Toynbee, Ashworth, Montgomerie, (Brandon) Lewis. Chair J Dimblebore as per usual.
telling it like it is – excellent
buying another of your books – every little helps – so you can get stuck in
Thanks for this. Just my thoughts. Spending 7 weeks denying they are interested in independence is a betrayal to their members and supporters and they should apologise for a pathetic election. I was appalled that the SNP ditched obtaining a Section 30 in favour of the GE. They should have bashed on regardless. Furthermore, NS’s speech telling us that Scotref could be off the table will do nothing but cheer up the unionists. Are we THAT easy to manipulate? Apparently so.
Hear, hear Craig. I have posted a number of tweets along the same line this a.m, as has Angela Haggerty and others. The SNP campaign was insipid and lacked real venom. The Yoons challenged and were allowed by the media to challenge the SNP on its local record instead of on aspects important to National and International matters. I mean it wasn’t even Independence they were attacking but just an Independence Referendum.
With Hindsight SNP should have gone the full hog and returned the attacks on Indyref2 by going full on Indy and comparing Scotland’s straits under the aegis of Westminster to what it might be under an Indy Scotland. That would at least have brought the argument back to more proper issues for a GE.
Like many others I think it is time that the SNP stopped pussyfooting all the time on the question of Independence and started to aggressively push it in ALL matters of Scottish politics. It must stop being apologetic about it. I am seeing the SNP slowly morphing into a location for career politicians, who of course don’t want to rock the boat and endanger their jobs, with all the bland sound bites and slogans that go with that. The Indy vote is the same as it was or slightly better than a few years ago. It is the SNP vote which has pulled back. But the vote will go that way too unless the SNP gives more dynamic support.
And why didn’t the SNP support vigorously the Indy March a few days before the Election. As far as I could see it gave no support at all! Come to that, why doesn’t the SNP openly support the many excellent Independence bloggers instead of disowning them? THEY should be invited to the Xmas jollies instead of the vipers of the MSM. And fuck them if the latter object. They are not friends of the SNP or Independence.
And why didn’t the SNP support vigorously the Indy March a few days before the Election
I wonder if you are aware of exactly how little money the SNP actually have compared to the other 2 main parties
Are you aware that as always the SNP relies heavily on people delivering the leaflets, getting the vote out and delivering our message
Strangely enough we are very much wondering why all you independence supporters didn’t bother turning up to help us, even 1% of that march doing 2 hours leaflets would have been an unbelievable help
So if you are wondering where we were, we were out pounding the streets trying to get voters to come out and vote for us, you know to try to stop the mass loss of seats we just encountered
Much as we would all loved to have had a fun day out marching – it would have lost us David Linden’s seat if we had all romped off on the lovely little independance jolly
Time the independence movement took a real hard look at it’s self
“I wonder if you are aware of exactly how little money the SNP actually have compared to the other 2 main parties”
They still have the £470,000 the public gave them to fund a second referendum.
https://www.ref.scot/donate
yes, all of which will have to be returned if we don’t have a second referendum
in 2010 SNP spent £315,000 in 2015 we spent £1,475,000
An increase in donations occurred in the first three months of 2015, with the Conservatives raking in £15m – much of it from people linked to financial services companies and hedge funds.
In contrast, Labour raised £9.3m in that period, with the vast bulk coming from the trade unions. The SNP took just over £1m and Ukip just under £1m.
So without the Weirs donating more we are very constrained in what we can spend.
I firmly believe party support can and does begin to waiver the longer a party is in power, the SNP have done a great job of holding power despite all the bad press
however this could be the beginning of the downtrend, in which case if it is not reversed means the end of independance movement for at least 10-20 years
Sorry, much as you and other might not like all SNP policies, which is totally fine, I don’t want a one party state, it is unhealthy for democracy, they are the only ones who can keep the chance for independance going
“yes, all of which will have to be returned if we don’t have a second referendum”
Too late, they spent it on the election.
The SNP confirmed the donations section had been taken down, but suggested it had been raising money for the election, not a referendum.
A party spokesman said: “Our fundraising efforts were focused on the general election.”
However ref.scot is dedicated solely to the promotion of a second referendum and contains no mention of the 2017 general election whatsoever.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15343496.SNP_abandons___1m_fundraising_appeal_for_second_referendum
What has having money got to do with the SNP heirarchy coming out publicly in the media to support the march? It might have had some publicity then. And do not under-estimate the encouraging effect of large public displays of support for Indy and hence for the SNP, on uncommitted voters.
You seem to be supporting a Party line AGAINST the march which I do not understand.
james I am not not supporting the march, and yes having talked to the voters after the march, i can tell you right now it did us absolutly no good
god that I could go out and have a good time on a march to make voter vote for us as opposed to being soaked to the skin 3 times on the get out the vote, fact is…….. the march is fun and yes, you know what I would have loved to have been in independence square before the vote
but 30 years of this has taught me, that faces on doors when you don’t have million
how did you think SNP came to power, it was us, it was year in year out trying
you know I missed all the good times of the independace vote, god the parties in george square looked soooooooo amazing, a lot of us missed it, becuase we have always known that you have to fight for ever vote
that was what we always did, laffs, ironically the SNP never had a party for suddenly becomingso popular, it just landed us with a different set of challenges
I am so so not against the march guys, but do you understand my point of view, if we had gone to the march, which god sake would have been nice as we always have to keep fighting for this country, then David Linden would have lost
75 votes guys
what more do you want from my fecking soul guys, i don’t ever get to party, because I always have to keep trying harder
we were 6 % of the vote
You seem to be supporting a Party line AGAINST the march which I do not understand
no, i am not saying that, do you understand we need help, how many more years do you want me to keep doing 60 hours of trudging the streets
guys we don’t get to go to the parties or the marches, at least most of them especially 2 weeks before an election which we got David Linden in by 75 votes
do you understand that, that the snp have fought year in year out with smaller budgets than the rest, do you realise that we won on the people power, and that wasn’t turning up at marches, that was absolutly pounding the streets, the SNP’s story is utterly amazing, because it was done by grass root support, god it took a lot
do any of you realize how much it has cost us, our belief in this country comes at a cost to usso yip I am glad you marched and I don’t and am not angry at that, but you guys need to realise that this fight is gonna cost you some more footwork than the march
and honestly, and sadly, you are not there when we need you
and hence I just watched Alex Salmond hand over his seat to a tory, you know he gave everything for that independence vote, and he is actually quite a funny guy, and how he ever after all of it, still said
you aint heard the last of me yet…….
so no not against the march in any way, would have loved to be on it, to not have the slog of 30 years of bringing SNP to power, so now you must ask yourselves what you are willing to do for your country
marches don’t convince anyone unless we are on the up, god maybe 56 mps was our worst mistake,
we need to be knocking doors and convincing the people, one by one, we have a very slim window left guys, and you really can’t blame us when 15000 turn out on a march and 20 turn up to speak to the voter
remember we always know the voters aren’t ours, we have to earn every vote, we have to keep every vote, snp aren’t a perfect party, i know that, but christ we are trying to weed out the gold diggers, ie NMcG, which I now have to go to court over, who was elected by the independence movement who did kinda swamp our branch for all of 2 months 800 extra members ….but by democratic party rules, she got in, now there about 6 of them who come to meetings, off 800 new members 6-8 now turn up
do you want to know how many hours that cost me to sort the N mc’G problem
the few that were dedicated, well we got a few of them into councillor positions, because they are amazing good people
So tell me what part of spending 30 year fighting for independence, and was driving a van home at 5am on the count morning, yes that’s right I was there at the count to make sure democracy was done right and it was, and never once got to go party at independence square because every hour was spent going after the vote, just as I’ve had to pick myself up and keep going and thank god we did, 75 votes was what got David Linden his seat, ps he is a really good guy, he was our leader in the indyref and part of the reason glasgow voted yes
So which part of that do you really want to hold me to being against the march, and which part will you guys have to decide to do to help us, say 1% of you turning up for 2 hours worth of leafleting
so you can try to play it that I was against the march, but in then end you really know when you compare my record to yours that your words are hollow,
doesn’t mean I want to fight or was against the march, it’s totally up to you guys, but guess what the usual snp guys were out there delivering leaflets and talking to the people, be very very aware that the march doesn’t and will not sway voters, (ie 2 weeks before vote – 20 seats lost – that march never swayed anyone – sorry but you are deluding yourself if you think marches change voters – getting on their doorstep and addressing their fears does) and I totally know you wish it did, because its fun to do, christ like I wish my life could be filled with just needing to go enjoy a day out on a march to change voters opinion)
but honestly in the end, this will come down to the same way SNP came to power, us on doors, year after year
sorry guys, but if you ever though independence was gonna come easy with your marches and a few hours here and there, it isn’t, people died for freedom in the past
they are unworthy of freedom who expect it from other hands than their own,
ironically on the pavement outside our temp office,
so
you can try to play me with caps to make me look like I am against something I wasn’t,
you can try to play me with wishful effects of your march,
you can try to play me with attacks against SNP not doing what you want it to do for you
but in the end you and only you can look in your heart and ask if it is wanting for the land you will be eventually laid to rest in
I know one thing I fucked my guts out for this land, big style, 30 years and still going bloody delivering leaflets, so tell me what have you done when you type this little quick line of 30 seconds of judgment
You seem to be supporting a Party line AGAINST the march which I do not understand.
so easy to type caps init………long as you’re willing to spend the next 30 years of your life fighting for this dream, should be so much easier for you now, and my hope for you is that in 30 years you are not fighting this battle
Sorry to be so blunt but you guys really need it after your little self bubble rally which, god I wish was all you had to do on uncommitted voters, would be so utterly nice if that’s how it worked
Sorry James
but you have no idea what you will have to give to this cause………. if you really believe your march had any effect on the uncommitted, so easy isn’t it to just think you get to turn up for 2 hours march and hey that should be enough to affect uncommitted voters
yah…….well then, welcome to the next 30 years of this fight, that’s what YOU and not the SNP are doing, it will be your life for the next 30 years if you have the guts to take it on, because you will need to, when you are so naive to think your march was worth any votes, when we won the seat by 75 votes that was ours days work not turning up on that march
get used to pounding the streets, if you really want to sit on this land and hear her say you are one of mine, then you just got the chance, 30 odd years of fighting for it should just about do it
Having supported the SNP for many years and becoming a member recently I agree with your thoughts on the campaign and the actions that are now required.
Whilst travelling around Scotland meeting up with work colleagues I have noticed a developing unease about some of the policies and changes made over recent years. Most notable has been the centralisation of services such as Police, Fire & Ambulance control rooms, no one has any doubt that this is the most efficient way to provide these services but the feeling is that “good jobs” are being transferred to Central Scotland where job prospects are already better. It may be efficient but further erodes sustainability in areas with limited job prospects and makes communities feel ignored by Holyrood. The impact is similar in large councils where local jobs have been moved 50 – 60 miles which for many makes them unreachable. Any wonder people in the likes of Fraserburgh, Peterhead or Banff feel forgotten.
The industry I work in used to have good jobs based right across Scotland, almost every significant town had around 10 staff which supported the work in their community, almost all these are now closed with staff now travelling long distances and communities dying through poor job prospects for our young people. We need a radical policy to reverse these trends, it is not good enough to be just efficient, if major utilities, banks and regulated businesses who have actual or virtual monopolies want the right to supply goods and services there should be a requirement to establish and maintain postions based in local communities across Scotland.
We need a much more radical offering to give hope to areas that are now feeling that Holyrood might not offer anything better than Westminster. By providing hope of something better that Indepence can bring, people will support and vote for SNP. We need a new vision, not just competence.
I am happy with Nicola leading, however we need change and I do not think that besuited spin doctors are the answer.
Please keep up your good work.
“So the SNP fall in MPs was not because of a drop in support for Independence. It was rather because the SNP failed the cause of Independence. Specifically they failed even to seek to present a radical and transformative view of what an Independent Scotland might look like”
I agree with some of your points here Craig but not that the SNP failed Scotland. I think they do their very best with the cards they are dealt – it’s very easy for any one of us on the sidelines to say their campaign went wrong here because, or that in future they should etc etc. Yes it is good to try to analyse what happened but radical “solutions” can turn off as many as those put off by “competent managerialism”
If we cut away all the hype what happened on Thurs night is that all parties suffered blows to their image and power. All parties (well except UKIP) had something they could claim as a success. All parties have been damaged in some way but maybe, when the initial reaction calms down and some thought is given, we will conclude that building alliances is a better way forward than traditional Tory tactics of divide and rule. It was clear that much of Corbyn’s radical manifesto is already happening in Scotland and I suspect his opposition to Scottish independence is more to do with keeping Kez & crew onboard as he tries to win support – possibly room for talks here. Even Farron and Rennie’s proposal for a 2nd EU referendum could be given our backing, it would be easy to argue the narrow Leave margin merits a second vote before brexit is agreed. If this was done and there was still a striking difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK that could then add weight to the need for a Scottish independence ref.
We can continue to bitch and moan or we can throw our weight behind consensus politics where no one part can railroad a reluctant and substantial minority in one direction only. This applies to all the political parties and to the media – if there is one lesson to be learned from Corbyn’s “success” it is that calm and respectful repetition of principles and beliefs can win support.
O/T. May has sacrificed her two aides, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill. That was the price demanded by the partei for her remaining as leader.
They are a cruel lot.
Some good points but the facts remain that Labour lost in England/ UK – despite a chaotic Tory campaign – and the SNP still won a landslide in Scotland.
The lowest share of the vote for a winning party in Scotland since 1983, the lowest seat tally for the first-placed party since 1955.
Hardly a landslide.
There is a petition calling on Theresa May not to form a DUP-backed minority government, and for her to resign.. It has so far received 480,000 signatures.
My guess is that the total will exceed 1 million by the end of today and probably several million by Monday.
You may have heard of this petition, searched, and found one of several similar ones that have gathered far fewer signatures. The above link goes to the big one.
We need to keep the pressure up. Who knows what might be achieved within a few days? A Labour-SNP government in the very near future is not at all impossible.
The paramilitary-supported creationist-packed DUP are a sitting duck. So is Amber Rudd. So is Boris Johnson. So are Theresa May and her husband. She’s not strong, she’s not stable, she’s not competent, she’s crap for security, she and her Tory pals are linked to the Saudi funders of terrorism, and she deserves to be out on her ear pronto.
Oops – sorry, I didn’t see that someone else here calls himself “Peter”. had I noticed, I would have used a different handle. I’m not the same person as the chap who posted at 13:53.
Peter,
I’m awfully sorry, but as both a Corbyn supporter & Labour voter I very much wish for Mayhem to proceed with her ‘Coalition of Chaos’ with the DUP in order that hers and the Tories toxicity levels go off the charts, particularly with regards the ‘Man on the Clapham Omnibus’ is concerned, who in all probability voted Tory. Whilst I abhor this most unholy of Holy Alliances, I also want Corbyn as PM by the years end, and this ‘coalition of chaos’ with known Terrorist supporter almost guarantees this.
As Napoleon observed: “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.” And Mayhem is making one hell of a tactical error!
God No!
The longer the lame duck a la’orange waddles on the better!
The SNP focused the entirety of their insipid and lacklustre campaign on defeating the Tories. The old dog whistle campaigning which, to be honest, has seen its day.
Meanwhile where they actually lost was not to the Tories.
Their biggest loss was to Did Not Vote.
Their second biggest loss was to Labour.
The first of those is clearly the completely lack of a dominant Independence message. If the SNP “learn” from this disaster that they need to downplay Independence, then they have no idea what they just did.
The second was the Corbyn effect and I think a lot of Independence supporters need to be reminded that this hurts the Independence cause and a lot of leftists need reminded that Corbyn still has a party full of Blairite stooges who still don’t back their own leader.
BUt the lack of Independence, front and centre, is the biggest failing of this campaign. The SNP need to stop being so timid, when Independence commands 47% support and they can only poll 37%, they have screwed up on a monumental basis.
yes the “did not vote” hurt us…………..
it always has…….. as most of our support is based in area’s where people do not want to be on the electoral roll due to avoiding debt collection, but of those that have voted in the past for us, a lot of them didn’t vote
seems like they made their message clear to us, we don’t want a second referendum, they haven’t deserted us, they just choice to make their message clear………..not now
Their second biggest loss was to Labour.
no actually it wasn’t, Labour only gained approx 10,000 votes in the whole of scotland
“The first of those is clearly the completely lack of a dominant Independence message”
actually if you go out on the doors and find the yes supporting SNP voter – ie called a CAT1 – telling you now is not the time, and when you question why, thinking he feels unsafe about brexit, he tells you the attacks on london and manchester attack, then you at least stand a chance of winning him back if you don’t shove independance down his throat, and show understanding for his viewpoint
Are you really saying that the 45% fickley decided not to vote for us, because hey last I checked I have been an active campaigner for SNP for 30 years of wanting my own country to rule itself
so while we are doing everything we can to play this the right way, do please remember it would be fiscally irresponsible for us to promise the earth,
and despite your criticism, SNP has always existed to further an independant scotland
guys you have to understand you are not the general public, you have a cause that unites you, they have their fears, their emotions, their voter fatigue
I just think you guys on here are the 10% hardcore yes voters, I think you will find if you go out there on the doors that voters don’t support it at the moment
truthfully I think people need to feel fear and loss to come back to us, something brexit will result in, but we need to play it right
if you guys for one moment think that the 45% was a dye in the wool, for-ever vote, then maybe you better go do your own research on the doors
you are taking the yes voters, outwith your own hardcore, for granted, we never have, we realise that voters, every single one of them, has to be won every time
So which one of us is it that understands the voters least????
How many did you canvas?
they just choice to make their message clear………..not now
=
they just chose to make their message clear
Trouble is… too much fiscal responsibility and other righteous platitudes to satisfy the media make Independence a dull choice. We need much more HEART in the quest for Indy. A bit like Corbyn and his return to good old left wing policies which the media and their ‘expert’ cronies have claimed for years are unwanted.
Totally agree, indyref2 is as hot as it ever was, checkout the Indy march online through Glasgow 3.6.17 on you tube. 20,000 people turned out. People have an instinct it can’t be put on a back burner, ‘oh we’ll do it later’ it has to be done first! To enable that, Nicola Sturgeon needs to reduce her over caution, stop trying to please everyone and come up with more tools to complete it. SHE has listened to her own opposition and let them convince her she is at fault. Tories don’t depend on popularity they just grab whatever they can and ito hell with all else! Nicola HAS to USE that mandate she won,not continually apologise for it??
Could not disagree more.
Have you actually looked at the results last week? What message does the loss of 21 seats at the hands of voters delivering to you? It seems like you are covering your ears and singing “la la la” to avoid hearing it. You are urging Nicola to do the same. That is madness!
Did you look at her the day after? She knew damage had been done. She had won, yes, but she had been damaged and she knew it. Those who are saying to hell with the electorate are playing a dangerous game.
Very Interesting read thank you, one thing I am noticing , from reading the YES blogs after the results, is that there is a growing demand for a post mortem and overhaul of policy.
Listening to Jim Sillars on the radio last night-I know, but I still like him.
he said ” There was no analysis of why we failed in 2014, and we are just plunged right into second campaign”.
Analysis needs to be down and policy fine tuned. to understand in spite of the greatest democratic debate in Scotland’s history, some 2 million voted NO.
Like wise on Thursday, of the 2.675 million who voted, 1.65 million voted for parties “obsessed by no second indyref”.
My own views is that our leaders were so starstruck by all the attention they received in 2014, they can’t wait to get back into the lime light again.
Bit like a compulsive gambler, wanting to relive his greatest day at the bookies.
Craig, a fantastic artical, I could not aggree with you more, during vairous interviews a debates, I could not understand why ALL the SNP people allowed the discussions to go to devolved areas. This was a general election and THATS the areas they should have been discussing, NS should not have been trying to justify her record in Scotland.
I totaly aggree that concidering the other parties in Scotland only wanted to talk about independence then the SNP should have said, “if thats what you want to talk about then bring it on”
Craig, I cant understand why you dont take / get a front line job with the SNP to help see independence become a reality? We can be so much better.
It may be your choice? Hopefully after thas mess, you will reconsider your position and jump in with both feet.
I hope our Nicola is reading this and its not been kept from by her overpaid and unnecessary spin crew.
Yours Hopefully
Colin
Craig is unwanted because for all its good points the SNP is very much dominated by Party Activist dinosaurs who see what they do as a job rather than a cause. They do not like ‘newcomers’ with new ideas which might rock their boat.
As Derek Bateman says on his blog, it’s likely the Tories will ditch EVEL. They wouldn’t be able to get any England only legislation through without the votes of the 13 Scottish Tories and the 10 DUP MPs.
There’s hardly any England-only legislation.
So according to this the Libdems Labour and the Tories all colluded to remove Alex Salmond. It’s now patently obvious that those three London ran branch offices in Scotland will conspire on every occasion, along with the foreign owned media to thwart the SNP and independence at every turn. Nothing will change unless we change it.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-knife-edgers/#more-95891
We must deny the legitimacy of Westminster by not taking up our MP’s seats. We must actively campaign beginning now for a second indy vote, at the end of Brexit and preempt the London branches of the unionist parties in Scotland.
The SNP must be made to see that independence is a people’s movement and not just the SNP’s. Though just now the independence is more likely to come through the SNP.
Our Scottish government must become more disruptive and less compliant towards Westminster, the circus that changes the rules to suits it needs.
The SNP needs to concentrate on independence, instead of worring about what the London run unionist parties, and its followers think, you can’t make an omelette without first breaking some eggs.