Americans, Irish, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, Pakistanis – They All Have More Balls Than We Scots 687

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The fascist violence in Charlottesville was in defence of prominent public statues to those who fought to uphold slavery. History should not be destroyed, and there is a place for such statues in appropriate explained context in museums. But public celebration of advocates of slavery ought to end. People always throw off the monuments of their oppressors, and so they should. The statues should be removed from their prestigious positions.

Hardly anybody remembers now that O’Connell Street in Dublin was Sackville Street. You will scour Ireland with little success for surviving statues of British Imperial rulers and commanders – there were once hundreds. I found that Burnes Road in Karachi is no more. Uzbekistan and Ukraine are no longer dotted with great statues of Lenin.

Yet I live here in a city which still has a Cumberland Street, named after a disgusting war criminal who perpetrated long term and systematic atrocities on this very people whose capital city is desecrated by his name. Cumberland was a worse racist and an infinitely greater war criminal than Robert E Lee. Yet I hear not a whisper to echo the brave roar of Charlottesville. The imposed regime which crushed Scotland, outlawed its major language and much of its culture and tried to expunge even the memory of its history and native culture, is celebrated in the heart of the nation. Hanover Street, George Street, Rose Street, Princes Street. These vicious, arrogant, Scot-hating people really did crush Scotland’s spirit, to the extent we still cringe before them now they are long dead.

It staggers me that, after we have decades of an element of home rule by alleged Scottish Nationalists and an alleged Labour Party, when even the pathetic colonial status of the devolution settlement gives the power to rename a few streets, Labour and the SNP, as the minimum gesture of self-awareness and a tiny, tiny glimmer of self-respect, have not renamed Cumberland Street after Keir Hardie.

Yes, we have always suffered from a parcel of rogues in a nation. Yet we remain a parcel of cowards as a nation. The brave left wing demonstrators of Charlottesville, supporting the removal of Robert E Lee against the violence of the fascists, put us to deep shame.

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687 thoughts on “Americans, Irish, Uzbeks, Ukrainians, Pakistanis – They All Have More Balls Than We Scots”

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    • Node

      Sounds less than you would expect through natural causes, given the global total number of Russian diplomats and death rate of middle-age men, but since you can’t be bothered to make your statistic meaningful, neither can I.

  • Republicofscotland

    So the rail worker union TSSA, has attack the Scottish government in a video they released, because a Dutch company runs the trains in Scotland.

    Labour’s Corbynite movement Momentum, forwarded the video, whilst mocking the Scottish government.

    At the time of awarding the contract to Abelio, the S&G didn’t have the devolved powers, to put in a public sector bid.

    Of course in reality, this just a timed attack on the S&G, to try and obscure the fact that Scotrail, has been named the best performing large train operator in the UK.

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/15490809.Momentum_slammed_after_sharing__bordering_on_xenophobic__anti_SNP_video/?ref=mrb&lp=2

    Corbyn will spend five days traipsing around Scotland trying to drum up support for his policies which he’s nicked from the SNP, who’ve already implimented them. However Corbyn opposes the SNP.

    • Sharp Ears

      First Group and MTR (Hong Kong) have just taken over South West Trains, owned by Stagecoach, for the SW franchise. Confusinly, the new lot call themselves South Western Railway.

      The takeover coincides with the chaos at Waterloo Station where 14 platforms are out of use.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/south-west-trains-season-ticket-holders-can-claim-refunds-waterloo/

      A new lot of gangsters are now in charge. Same rolling stock but they are planning to operate driver only trains.
      New operator South Western Railway’s first day of operations as union warn of industrial dispute
      https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/new-operator-south-western-railways-first-day-of-operations-as-union-warn-of-industrial-dispute-a3616386.html

      FIRST MTR SOUTH WESTERN TRAINS LIMITED
      https://companycheck.co.uk/company/07900320/FIRST-MTR-SOUTH-WESTERN-TRAINS-LIMITED/companies-house-data

      I see that MTR also have an interest in Scotrail and other so called ‘operating companies’. A treasure chest that keeps on giving.

      https://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC472705/MTR-CORPORATION-SCOTRAIL-LIMITED/companies-house-data

      YCNMIU. So much for the Tories and Grayling.

      NATIONALIZE THE RAILWAYS NOW.

        • Stu

          “Salmond used free tuition fees, an end to hospital parking charges, honouring NHS pay reviews and a push for renewable energy as examples of policies that Labour is considering adopting ahead of the General Election.”

          Hospital parking charges are fairly irrelevant and the commitment to increase renewable energy is present in every country in the world. Supporting public sector workers and making education available to all has been something Labour has been committed to for over a century, it’s hardly stolen from the SNP.

          The SNP have several problems. (1) Independence will only happen under a Tory Westminster government but they have to oppose a Tory Westminster government (2) They are attempting to win in Parkhead and Peterhead which are poles apart politically and will lead to them being wiped out (3) They are an ideology free zone so they are open to being manipulated by the likes of Trump, by the Crown who almost got them to abolish corroboration and they seem to be heading down the Academy/Charter school route which is supported by big money lobbyists.

          Labour under Corbyn have a simple message for the next Westminster elections, vote Labour and fix the country. The SNP by contrast are saying vote SNP, we will make a lot of noise opposing the Tories to zero effect, somehow we convince the Tories to grant us Indyref2, then vote Yes in Indyref2, then there will be Scottish elections and then fix the country. It’s not an appealing offer.

          • reel guid

            You really are an ideological obsessive. Which is why you think that the SNP are ideology free. You probably see ideology free people and crypto-conservatives everywhere you look.Non-Reds under the bed.

            As for Comrade Corbyn, he offers Scotland nothing except subservience to England’s diktat. We don’t want out the EU because we know it’ll be disastrous. But that’s what May and Corbyn are giving Scotland against our votes. Colonial non-democracy. Shameful.

            Even supposing Corbyn scraped into power, he can offer Scotland nothing a social democratic government couldn’t achieve in an independent Scotland. He could only realistically offer a good deal less. Even supposing he can turn England on to hard socialism and get to Downing Street.

            Corbyn’s only hope of getting into office would have been to make peace and work with the moderate right in his party like any shrewd and realistic politician. But he’s all but burned his bridges there. Under provocation certainly. But he never rose above it.

          • Stu

            The SNP simultaneously talk about Irish style prosperity ie being a tax haven and also about social justice. It’s hypocrisy. They loved RBS and Godwin until it went tits up and their flagship policies haven’t been redistributive but squarely aimed at the middle class.There are interesting pro indy thinkers but none within the SNP, a party with any sort of intellectual tradition wouldn’t have voted unanimously to abolish corroboration. They have one coherent message which is independence and I agree with that but it’s along way off and there are many other important issues that effect our every day lives.

            “Even supposing Corbyn scraped into power, he can offer Scotland nothing a social democratic government couldn’t achieve in an independent Scotland. He could only realistically offer a good deal less. Even supposing he can turn England on to hard socialism and get to Downing Street.”

            Firstly it’s not hard socialism it’s simply unwinding a few decades of Neoliberal theft to the point where we have a society that can reasonably be described as fair and humane. Secondly he’s actually offering it, I watched Nicola Sturgeon on TV a few days before the General Election saying that there would be a Tory majority. That’s what she was offering.

          • reel guid

            Unwinding decades of neo-liberal theft? Ah. Vagueness and grandiosity in combination. Just what Scotland needs. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of jobs that will go by being out the EU. Or the environmental damage.

            Comrade Corbyn going to do some unwinding if he gets in.

          • Stu

            Well if you want to be specific I will mention the transfer of publicly owned assets to private cartels or the disgraceful method of private financing which leads to private capital being massively over compensated for minimal involvement in public works. In Engand education is being slowly privatised and the SNP have taken the first step towards that by moving towards taking schools out of locla authority control.

            A left wing government can mitigate against mass unemployment and environmental damage. The EU was going to burden us with TTIP until Trump made it unpalatable. The EU allows corporations to offshore their profits. The EU is far from perfect.

          • reel guid

            You talked of hypocrisy. Here’s some big time hypocrisy for you.

            Jeremy Corbyn kicked off his five day Scottish tour in the Western Isles by announcing that Labour will asses their policies to make sure they have no adverse effect on rural communities. Yet he fervently supports Brexit which will leave Scottish rural communities high and dry as EU rural project money disappears. He doesn’t respect Scotland’s wish to remain.

            Corbyn is an ideology obsessed chancer who thinks he can achieve things without working with others and showing some give and take. His star will fade before too long.

          • Stu

            1. I hope a Corbyn government will reform subsidies to farmers and land owners.

            2. The UK is a net contributor to the EU so it’s the money that goes to farmers (and all other EU funding in the UK) is UK money therefore.

          • JOML

            Huge leap of faith, Stu, to believe the UK government’s spending priorities will match or exceed those of the EU. If I were a farmer, I’d be worried. Do you recall Gove’s comments about subsidies not being guaranteed and subject to new U.K. government conditions?

    • giyane

      London – manufacturer and exporter of heart-ache for the Muslim Nation.
      British policy is to denigrate Islam and subject the Muslims to homelessness and terror.

    • reel guid

      The Scottish Tories have gone rancid under Davidson’s so-called leadership.

      Majury and Davies coming back in is a readmission of guilt.

        • reel guid

          Ros

          So the message from the Colonel is you can be as far right as you like in the Tory Party. As long as you don’t advertise it online.

          Meanwhile Doug ‘Whistler’ Ross,Tory MP for Moray, has publicly stated he’d crack down on gypsies if he was Prime Minister.

          You’d think he’d have more respect for the travelling community. Since he does a fair bit of travelling himself as a UEFA match official. Who thinks nothing of abandoning his political office many times a year to indulge in his paid hobby.

          And there were people in Moray who thought this eejit would be an improvement on Angus Robertson as their MP!

    • JOML

      Aye, but Sharp Ears, when she’s talking about a clock, it saves her from talking about the real issues mentioned by RoS above. She has a canny knack for saying a lot about bugger all. I’ve never any original thought from her but she pleases the popular press with her ‘banter’, who probably laugh behind her back when mentioning her as a potential next leader of the Tories.

      • reel guid

        I imagine anyone or anything other than Ruth Davidson getting a lot of attention gets on her wick.

  • giyane

    Severn Trent Water has charged my brother in law £190.00 x 2 for 2 contractors to travel in the same van to sort out a non-existant leak. Severn Trent has a large HQ within 10 miles of his house. £40.00 per mile? HMRC only allow me 0.45p per mile. Where am I going wrong? He has a CCTV camera covering his back garden which shows they were in the garden for 2 short visits of about five minutes each. Severn Trent Water have charged £116.59 x 2 for 2 contractors to spend 10 minutes in which they could not find a leak. £700.00 per hour is a little higher than my hourly rate. Threats were made of bailiffs if the contractors found nobody at the house to let them in.

    Can I ask please what kind of economic system we are now living in , that gives big corporations the right to threaten, blackmail and bully their customers? Who the fuck does Severn Trent Water think they are? They are Thatcherite scum operating under Mrs May’s Conservative Party which you mugs voted for because she said she wanted to make a UK that works for everyone. I have no pension fund which will drop if Severn Trent Water’s shares will fall, as some scumbag Tory said this morning about corporate profit. can you imagine waking up in the morning and going down the BBC to tell the people who want to hear the news that corporate greed is good for you? Forget about the pulling down the ancient statues. Concentrate on this conservative government.

      • giyane

        Thanks Paul. A much better use for dramatic musical effects than some attempts to hijack the Qur’an, distracting the listener from the fact that it is a moral treatise from Allah, confirming everything that was taught by Moses pbuh and Jesus pbuh and making everything clear, not a piece of music for over-dramatic recitation.

      • giyane

        The Turkish Kurds are allied to the left in Turkey as a whole. against the extreme right wing Erdogan.
        That’s why he always represents them as terrorists, to tar the left with extremism.
        No, you say, the secular, post-colonial Attaturkan elite are the extreme right-wing in Turkey.
        Darlings, which are worse, the Imperialists like Harold Macmillan, or the capitalism gone mad Ian Duncan Smith Tories who replaced them? It’s possible to have 2 utterly fascist parties competing for the right wing of politics. As in the US, in the UK, as in France, and in Israel.

  • Paul Barbara

    I didn’t make it ‘Doune the rabbit hole’ (I’m allergic to haggis, and hefty entrance prices)), but hope to make it to Carnival.

  • SA

    The establishment is obviously up to something on Syria. Recently Netanyahu claimed that as Israel was defeating IS in Syria (sic) there was no reason for Iran to be in Syria. The second day running we have had the BBC showing renewed interest in Syria. Today we had two doctors one talking about the plight of civilians in Raqqa, the subject of very intense bombing of civilians, this time by the ‘Coalition’, and one from Idlib which is controlled by AQ in Syria (Al Nusra, Hayat tahrir al sham etc..) as they now have been fighting with the other ‘moderate’ jihadists. It is interesting that one of the doctors David Nott, is a prominent British trauma surgeon was commenting on Raqqa but miraculously then turned the argument about the barbaric Syrian government being responsible for the suffering. The same David Nott had previously advocated removal of Assad forcibly for humanitarian reasons:
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/20/omran-picture-turning-point-syria-war-aleppo-david-nott
    but is now saying that maybe we should be talking to Assad as the previous calls for his removal have given Russia the upper hand in this war.
    Later on we had Bojo. Oh how this man waffles! I do not really think that he has a clue of what he is talking about whether it is about Libya or Syria. This man should not really be our representative to the world he is a liability.

    • Blog

      Blog members may have noticed the almost complete shut down of reporting on the Western and Gulf Monarchies supported regime change war in Syria in recent weeks.
      The gullible are now deflected by the latest diversion of Monuments being pulled down in the United States by historically challenged morons and Trumps latest faux pas.
      The answer for the news black-out is not complicated; the war is almost over and the Western drive to Central Asia via Iran has been halted in Syria.
      The people of Deir Ezzor, pop.100K have been under sieqe for almost 5 years by ISIS. This is longer than the siege of Stalingrad.
      Do not expect the pealing of Church bells or the illumination of the Eiffel Tower and Big Ben, when the siege is lifted in a few weeks, because this is a momentous defeat for the Neocon warmongers of Washington and a turning point in world history.
      http://russia-insider.com/en/politic…eid=8dbfc95e18

      • SA

        But this is my worry. Israel has not been able to get its war on Iran through the atomic deal and now through Syria but will start agitating to hit Iran and Syria within Syria. The whole west will then rally in support of the aggressors.

    • Sharp Ears

      Thanks SA. Usual prop from the state broadcaster. Here is the link to what you heard this morning and about the doctor who is a Birmingham GP. Can’t imagine he sees many patients.

      Radio 4 Today
      25 August 2017
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b091s853

      0720
      The Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has recently returned from a two day visit to Libya where he urged all sides to compromise in an attempt to unite their divided country. Oliver Miles is former Ambassador to Libya and deputy chairman of the Libyan British Business Council.

      0730
      The United Nations has called for a humanitarian pause to allow an estimated 20,000 civilians trapped in Raqqa to escape. Dr Ghanem Tayara** is the chairman of the Union of Medical Care and Relief Organisation and Dr David Nott is a British surgeon who has worked in many war zones.

      0810
      The Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has told Libyan politicians they should learn from Theresa May’s mistake and avoid holding early elections before they are ready. Boris Johnson is the UK Foreign Secretary.

      How dare Johnson tell the Libyans what to do when it was his rotten lot who wrecked the country. He is very dangerous.

      **
      https://companycheck.co.uk/director/914689292/GHANEM–TAYARA/companies

      http://www.itv.com/news/2015-12-18/the-hospitals-forced-below-the-ground-by-assads-bombs/ !!

      ‘Ghanem Tayara, a Birmingham-based GP, runs Syrian Relief, which helps support medical services in the border areas. He bemoans the Department for International Development’s insistence on channelling most of its aid to Syria through UN agencies. While the UN works outside Syria in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan, it also backs operations by the Syrian Red Crescent, which has ties to the regime.

      “We can’t get a start with the UK. It has no flexibility to work with us and channels money through the UN which sends 90 per cent to the regime areas,” he said. “It’s hard for a small group to attract support.”

      Syria Relief has the backing of Save the Children for one child friendly medical care in Syria but faces demands that it can never meet because it can’t attract more interest.’
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11098070/Threat-from-Islamic-State-group-leads-to-exodus-of-aid-workers-helping-desperate-Syrians.html Sept 2014

      • SA

        Thanks Sharp Ears for a more detailed analysis. A year ago Mr Nott wrote the article I have referred to above. I was very incensed and penned the following down but have not sent it anywhere else.

        Mr Nott is a prominent trauma Surgeon who has worked in war zone and his work is highly acclaimed. He obviously has contributed to the survival of many patients in war zones and by setting out a foundation to teach trainees in this field. My complaint however centres on his partisan views and advocacy of military intervention by our Government in the civil war in Syria. There is no doubt that Mr Nott is well intentioned having seen the horrors of this and other wars first hand. However this article takes the view that all of the blame in this civil war goes to the Syrian government which is an opinion and not fact. Moreover he advocates the use of a no-fly zone and uses expressions that are in my views biased towards the rebels who are a major part of the conflict.
        Moreover Mr Nott glosses over some facts and I would particularly like to draw attention to his statement:
        “I packed my gas mask and spent six weeks in Aleppo just after that statement in 2013. Aleppo was a very moderate city. The rebel side was controlled by the Free Syrian Army.”

        By 2013 the major faction controlling Aleppo was Al Nusra front which is affiliated with the global terrorist organisation Al Qaida. This statement means that Mr Nott did not appear to be aware of the details of who the rebels were, or has chosen not to mention this fact.
        Obviously Mr Nott has never operated in the Government controlled part of Aleppo and therefore has not witnessed the equally appalling suffering of children and other civilians in this gruesome civil war and this may be that he was refused entry by the Syrian government. However the nett result is that he is making a partisan judgement and calling for military action, both of which have no place in his capacity as a medical practitioner. In also using a propagandistic approach by using a photo circulated in the internet of a Syrian child that has been a victim of an air raid, and also allowing a photograph of himself dressed in theatre gowns, I believe he brings the profession into disrepute.
        The Syrian civil war is a very complex issue and the use of journalistic procedure to sway the public is well practiced by politicians and journalists but should not be done by medical professionals. I am sending this anonymously because I fear that this issue has been taken up by our government and press on a one sided way. There does not seem to be an appreciation that war is bad and that both sides may commit atrocities equally but the portrayal of the rebels who contain mainly terrorist factions has been glossed over and doctors should not participate in this deception in my opinion.

      • giyane

        Unity FM, a Birmingham Islamic radio station run by the Muslim Brotherhood uses a snippet from an excellent imam and teacher whose talks are frequently broadcast on Unity FM to raise money for charities in Syria. The snippet about the plight of Syrians used in the ad comes from one of the Sheikh’s talks in which he roundly condemns what passes for jihad in 2017, rape , betrayal, sheltering behind civilians and innocents, bullying the population, starvation and false witness. Obviously they think we are very stupid, and we are, for putting up with them.

        Of course the causes of the rebellion against Assad are fair and reasonable. So is the claim by Mrs May that we should have a society that works for everyone. But these are the hollow slogans of political people riding on the bandwagon of emotional outrage, in Mrs May’s case about the treatment of disabled people under her predecessor’s government. In the case of Al Qaida in Syria, whom her Foreign Secretary openly supports in parliament, if they had respected the clearly defined laws of Islam and the human rights of the population in Syria and Libya they would have won. As it is they have been totally crushed , along with their sponsors the Democratic Party in the US and the Nasty Party here.

        Boris Johnson was trying to rub salt in May’s wounds , thinking his own fatuous brand of jingoistic hypocrisy wasn’t a major part in the electoral trouncing given them by Jeremy Corbyn.
        Total defeat for the Tory Party is an accident waiting to happen.

        • SA

          giyane
          It is well known that the MB have been formed at least with Brittons blessing if not connivance as a tool of ‘divide and rule’. Have you read Mark Curtis on this?

          • giyane

            SA

            The Muslim Brotherhood is a freemasonry amongst many others. No-one seems shy of proclaiming that they have been cloned by the parasite after it has happened. It takes over a part of the brain that exercises free thought such that the zomboid participant is happy to proclaim their defeat to aliens. I am aware of Mark Curtis, but as an ordinary Muslim living in the UK the challenges of colonial political infiltration are too obvious. Not least that people now look twice at the driver of any car waiting at the traffic lights before crossing the road.

            Maybe there is a promise of financial reward. You can now enter into the management hive in which all members regularly have access to information collected from the multiple spy mediums, corporate spying, mosque spying and general fishing from GCHQ. Personally I would prefer not to make a Faustian pact with the devil, but people do.

            My google account thinks I live in West London, but that is because the zombie that hacks my google account has forgotten to turn off Location. When I came into Islam I quickly became aware that all types of organised goonery are haram, spying, belonging to secret societies and following the dogma of the enemies of Islam expecting them to function your life for you.

            The Muslim Brotherhood is a political organisation, set up by the British to infiltrate Islam. As such it does not comply with any of the basic teachings of Islam about not attacking or intimidating your Muslim brothers and sisters. In fact its basic teaching is that division is an essential tool of Islam. Being so remote from Islam it can easily connect with other sects, previously set up by the colonial British, in which the teachings of Sufism have been incorporated into the religion.

            The sects of Sufi origin such as Naqshabandis, Deobandis and Tablighis sect are now doing the Muslim Brotherhood bidding in the Imperial killing grounds, by providing futile points of heresy for the jihadists to squabble about with guns after the main colonial purpose of the war on Islam has been exposed.. These things are intellectual differences which can easily be resolved by referring to the Qur’an.

            On this blog there is an un-written rule that while internecine theological infighting on the ground in Syria, Libya, Africa and Afghanist/Pakistan can be condemned for the trials inflicted on the general populations, they cannot be discussed or resolved here. The blog-owner has an allergy to theological discussion which he regards as bonkers, and he is entitled to have his opinion on his own page.

    • Courtenay Barnett

      Manufactured information that does not tally with reality.
      Nott is with the military – so – he is probably trying to spin a pro-Western line which somehow does not come across as cogent and logical once he spins it.

      What is telling is the little boy in the photo at the top of the article. He has been used as a little actor over and over again and keeps cropping up all over the place – sometimes with red make up for blood – sometimes with grey make up for ashes. Really – I kid you not. The face of the Syrian war sections of the media have portrayed him to be ( notably the BBC). Hope they have paid his family the acting fees he deserves.

    • J Galt

      Been a fan of theirs since the early 90s.

      Not heard this one.

      When the world bully falls it’s the bully’s lacky that will get it worst.

      A universally hated people that are under the illusion that they are universally loved!

      • Republicofscotland

        reel guid.

        I see the Tory British nationalist Douglas Ross, has apologised. He said Gypsy travellers were his number one priority, but not in a good way.

        Hitler’s form of nationalism also saw the Gypsy people as a priority, and not in a good way either.

          • reel guid

            And if Scotland can become independent and stay in the EU, some of those banking exodus jobs can go to the financial centre that is Edinburgh.

          • nevermind

            There are more than just him who like to wear the black shirt….
            This from Jon Vale in the Indy lite.

            Cuts create catastrophe for disabled people
            The chairwoman of the UN committee has accused the Government of creating a ‘human catastrophe’ for disabled people in the wake of cuts.
            Policies pursued by this Government have totally negelected the vulnerabilities faced by disabled people, according to Theresia Degener, chair of the CRPD ( Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities).
            Officials faced allegations of misrepresenting the impact of cuts and policies through unanswered questions, misused statistics and statements on policies and legislation.
            CPRD had previously said welfare reforms have led to ‘grave and systematic violations’ of disabled peoples rights, findings the Go0vernment said it strongly disagreed with.
            The CRPD is now conducting a wider investigation to assess the UK’s progress in implementing the UN Convention on the Rights of Disabled people.
            Officials faced two days of questions from the UN panel in Geneva.
            end off article.

            So, the Tory’s had been pulled up by the UN previously for their ‘grave and systematic violations’, and now they are accused of ‘creating a catastrophe’ for those in society who are disabled.

            When a lady in a wheelchair, an athlete for that matter, had to pee herself in public for lack of working toilets on the train, it was reported all over the news.
            Where are the questions asked in the media, who has covered this daily outrage?
            To collude with right wing fascists who design these policies, and help to pull a rug over this damning UN finding, is a bad omen for the future of this country.
            Bali shoes in Norwich is rumoured to re-open, to supply the demand for hobnail boots….

          • Michael McNulty

            RoS. Thing is, when this country actually owned the the things you boast about we were endlessly told how collective wealth like the nationalized industries were bad, private was good; but now the wealth is privately owned they try telling us it’s collective wealth. You must think we’re morons. I voted Brexit because I’ve been taking neo-liberalism up the arse since 1979. I used to like your comments but your anti-Brexit gripe is getting boring. Really boring. You’re now spam.

    • glenn_uk

      “The Westminster government cannot be trusted, Scottish independence is the way forward.”

      The government has been telling lies? I’m shocked, shocked, I tell ya.

      It’s very heartening to hear how an independent government would be incorruptible, honest, and entirely truthful. Not to mention decent and wholesome in their intent, and brilliantly competent in achieving the desired outcomes.

      Sorry for the cynicism. Somewhat. Expecting nothing but goodness from one side while pointing out how bad the other might be, is terribly likely to end up with crushing disappointment, even should your wishes come true.

      • JOML

        Yes, but Glenn_uk, it would be our own corruption. The major difference being, it’s more difficult to hide in a small place than in a large place.

        • Ba'al Zevul

          Corruption’s prevalence has little to do with its deniability, and less with national size. Ask the Maltese. And, personally, as an Englishman, I do not get a bigger glow from being ripped off by a corrupt Brit than by a corrupt Kuwaiti. Don’t get me started on offshore zillionaires, either.

          Re. that crushing disappointment, note how the criticism of the SNP on its distinctly patchy record of practical governance gets divorced from any consideration of how well it would work given more power. It’s mediocre at dealing with the problems it has got the power to solve, or at least mitigate…hardly a recommendation to empower it further.

          Would independence even supply the power? It could. But only if the kind of society you want is agreed and clearly stated, and serious work commenced on achieving the economic structure and conditions needed to support it. Starting five years ago.

          Hasn’t happened yet. You’re still at the stage of ‘What do we want?’…’Freedom!’…’Freedom from what?’…(confused and contradictory babble)

    • giyane

      Mrs May’s childish false logic is endearing, because overseas students visas have to be monitored, they must therefore be included in the immigration figures. What we monitor is real. What actually happens is not real.
      Scarey though, because government thinks that it can prevent another banking crash by monitoring the banks. Bankers themselves have warned that the crash will come from where the government is not monitoring.
      The Alice-in-Wonderland world of artificial intelligence and universal spying.

    • Salford Lad

      Smuggling contraband via Diplomatic pouches is a century old habit. This is small potatoes unless it is a mini-nuke.
      If anyone wondered where the Syrian Jihadists, Daesh/ISIS got their weapons and the stimulant ‘heroes’ drug Captagon from , Thierry Meyssen gives a picture of the rat run of finance and suppliers. of over $500million, not including the weapons smuggled under Hillary Clintons auspice from Libya, which led to the death of US Ambassador Stevens.
      http://www.voltairenet.org/article197144.html

  • Sharp Ears

    RBS receives a pasting from the Financial Conduct Authority for its aggresssive treatment of its business customers following the crash.

    Controversial RBS unit responsible for ‘inappropriate action’ against majority of firms, leaked report claims
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/08/25/controversial-rbs-unit-responsible-inappropriate-action-against/

    Reported on the BBC website and by the Guardian.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41048691

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/25/rbs-mistreated-clients-leaked-fca-report-reveals

    Reminder that RBS is 73% owned by the British taxpayers following the bail out.

    • JOML

      Yes, Sharp Ears, but it is also worth remembering that RBS is currently a good going business. Once it is finally free of the past mistakes, it will again make vast profits. However, the danger is that the UK government will then sell that 73% for a fraction of the real worth to their friends, with the tax payer losing out twice. Perhaps Osbourne will be buying the family silver this time, rather than selling.

      • giyane

        JOML
        Going back to first principles, making money out of lending at interest ended up in the 2007 crash. There is a theological reason for this, which is well-rehearsed, that God forbids it, but there is a practical reason also that our bankers s-t-r-e-t-c-h their consumption of interest into the consumption of capital, not least by selling on a mixture of interest and debt so that the bankers can retrieve capital out of the debt.

        It is not only a commerce which was predicted to go wrong, it did go wrong. We and our great-grand-children are still vastly poorer than an average third world peasant because we are in minus, and they are still in small credit. OK the debt has been transferred from the shoulders of the bankers to the shoulders of the people, but inevitably it will happen again because it is based on cheating and lies.

        In other words we the people should put an end to Thatcherite banking liberalisation . Full stop.This Walter Mitty government still tries to represent banking as a major source of revenue, while it is in fact the only source of debt. We are all peddling as fast as we can to keep the rickshaw moving, full of ever fatter cats.

        • JOML

          Sorry, giyane, when I said that RBS was a “good going business’, I was meaning in the messed up situation you describe. However, we’re not going back to first principles (yet!) and RBS is making a shed load of money (tangible or otherwise) and this is being subsequently reduced to pay for past demeanours. Whether this sharade is real or not, it can be used as an excuse to shaft the tax payer at both ends.
          I’m still totally confused why quantitative easing can be used for the banking crisis but not the housing crisis (?).

          • Salford Lad

            Quantitative Easing is an exchange of bonds and other debt instruments from the private banks in return for bank reserves from the Bank of England. It thus is a swap and has no effect on inflation.
            A Sovereign Govt with its own currency issuing power,such as the Bank of England can buy anything within its jurisdiction ,including all idle Labour,
            It chooses not to do this ,because the prevailing Neo-liberal economic policy as espoused by the mainstream economists, is to control inflation by unemployment and austerity.
            Britain can rebuild its economy, Railways, Nuclear Power stations and attain full employment, but the ideology is captured by the neoliberal mindset.
            Modern Monetary Theory explains this.

      • Kempe

        Unusual to see anyone around here defending a bank.

        RBS made a loss of £7bn last year and might actually turn a profit in 2018 providing it can pay off all its fines. Last month it agreed to pay £3.7bn in fines for misselling mortgage-backed assets in the run up to the financial crisis in 2007-08.

        The bank itself expects to have to pay further multi billion pound fines over the coming year.

        Now it faces a number of private lawsuits from current and former business customers who may feel they were mistreated by their own bank.

        Now what did Wee Eck say about the greater probity of Scottish banks?

        • JOML

          Fuck me, Kempe, who was defending the banks? I was merely saying, past demeanours / wrongs aside, RBS is making ‘cash’. The point I was trying to make (badly, it appears), was that the tax payer may end up covering the cost of the wrongs / issues you highlight, only for it to be sold off for a song. The RBS shouldn’t be privatised back until the tax payers costs have been recouped – bugger, why didn’t I say that in the first place! ?

          • SA

            It is a well known tennet of capitalism that socialism is bad except when socialising the bankers’ debts but keeping the profits privatised.

  • mike

    Jesus…Buckingham Palace has been attacked with a knife. The building has been eviscerated. There is dust everywhere and Britain is officially fucked. Tune in for further updates to this ongoing story of continuous crisis and learned helplessness.

    Meanwhile, in other news, Yemen has been delisted as a country. It no longer exists, or if it does it’s just cos shit happens there and no-one’s to blame. Did someone say CrISIS?

    Noesis.

    Air drops a-go-go east of the Euphrates. No regime change there, no siree.

    Libya? They can’t play trombones. They could, but all their trombone players are dead now cos of an accidental regime change circa 2011.

    Trump? He’s a Nazi – except when he pledges to bomb the heroin capital of the world, Afghanistan. Then he’s got balls like grapefruit.

    Anyone seen an embedded journalist?

  • Tony_0pmoc

    We’ve been away rather a lot camping – its a bit hard on the old bones, but it keeps us fit…and we haven’t finished yet..Meanwhile between camping trips, we came back for a few days break – and went down our local pub…and I replied to an American/Russian (he actually lets me write on his website). I have been told off, but still, I have never been banned..which I find extremely tolerant…This one might not appear..some of the moderators are not too keen on what I write..but what the hell..I mean no offense…

    “When the London Bombings happened on the 7th July 2005, for several hours, I thought my wife may have been caught up in the attacks.. It was a sunny day, and I had my small spare bedroom window open. I was working on my computer – and this amazing thing happenned. I had never seen anything like it before. The birds went literally wild…There were two enormous great Black Birds Squawking at Each Other – right below me in the front of my Drive

    I didn’t hear a thing….but The Birds heard it and it caused a Ripple Effect… the mobile phones did not work. I could not contact my wife.

    So I switched on The TV and I switched on The Radio…and later that day , I wrote on The Internet – on My Favourite British Website where I had been posting for nearly 10 Years…

    “All Terrorists are Cunts”

    and they banned me, and I refused to apologise…

    So I thought well, I am not going to post there again in The UK, so I went to America on my computer..and I became a part of the Alternet community for 5 years.

    I still have friends in America, but I have never been there in my life – though my son did with a Scout Camp in The Year 2000 when he was 12 years old and he was not impressed.

    It was the equivalent of sending an English schoolboy to NAZI Germany in 1936.

    He said well most of them are incredibly fat, and the rest of them are marching round with flags as if they are preparing for war.

    In the Year 2000 – start aof a New Millennium The World was Largely at Peace. No one had attacked America – 9/11 was a year later..

    We have not been back since.

    My son told me at the age of 12 – “The Americans are Completely Mad”

    Don’t go there.

    So I haven’t.

    (England’s still O.K)

    My wife survived (in fact we’ve just been to a great gig) at a local pub.

    It was a folk band from Slovenia

    And they were Brilliant.”

    Tony

  • Tony_0pmoc

    The USA is controlled by a Mob of Gangsters, and I have never before come across an American Girl with such courage, who says it as it is, to the best of her knowledge and Streams it Live (its not edited which makes it so much more beautiful). What she is doing is incredibly dangerous – and she knows it. I like Feisty Girls with Courage..

    “Military Coup Has Taken Over the U.S. A., Without a Single Shot Fired”

    https://www.opednews.com/articles/Military-Coup-Has-Taken-Ov-by-Daniel-Geery-Overthrowing-Governments-170822-741.html

    Tony

    • Courtenay Barnett

      Tony,

      Going to that place that she is talking about in the video would require some serious questioning:-

      1. Was there a Bay of Tonkin incident announced as an attack the day before the US claimed it had been attacked by North Vietnam (i.e. someone forgot about the international dateline and did announce the attack prematurely)?
      2. Was the Vietnam war then a prolonged war built upon a lie?
      3. If, as it did, happen re. Tonkin – then how does building 7 collapse and buildings fall like a demolition on 9/11?
      4. Is it just the US or abused power everywhere – Diana’s death; Dr. Kelly; Blair prearranging and agreeing with the US to invade Iraq a year before the actual invasion, via the Downing Street Memorandum with the disastrous consequences of deaths in Iraq – did or didn’t happen?
      5. General Wesley Clarke stating that the US planned to attack 7 countries within 5 years – is fact or fiction?
      6. The funding of terror groups to oust one of those 7 countries – namely terror funding in Syria – fact or fiction?

      And on and on and on….but some say – “conspiracy theories” to avoid connecting the factual and historical dots to get a better, even if not fully perfect, picture of the dynamics propelling the wars raging around us.

      7. Is a US foreign policy core objective that of ‘full spectrum dominance’ – fact or fiction?

      Well?

    • MJ

      It is the declared policy of both Ireland and the UK to maintain the current open border. Not much of a headache there.

      If the EU insists on poking its nose in too imperiously it might find that it loses another member.

  • John Goss

    I’ve just paid for and watched a vimeo which is a powerful antidote to medical propaganda. It is called Statin Nation and has been produced by doctors who are far from convinced that statins have any long-term benefits, and may even be detrimental to health. You can catch the first thirteen minutes here:

    https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/statin-nation-the-documentary/

    Some key points include the fact that a few years back the risk level for high cholesterol was 6.5 and today it has been reduced to 5.0 in order to capture a much larger chunk of the populace even though studies have shown there is no benefit to this. If we carry on like this they will be putting children on these awful drugs replete with side-effects. The conclusion is that whatever the level of cholesterol in your body it is the right one for you. Ironically those who have suffered heart attacks have less cholesterol in their bodies than the rest of us (average populace) based on a huge study where measurements taken immediately these patients were taken into hospital. Big Pharma is just and extension of government control and has a big input into parliamentary, congressional and other government decisions.

    • SA

      John
      I don’t think that it is a medical conspiracy to give high risk individuals statins. There is a lot of of evidence now that there is a beneficial effect. Heart disease and strokes due to narrowing of the blood vessels due to what is called atheroma, caused by deposits of cholesterol under the artery walls and causing narrowing and obstruction of the walls is a very well known cause of heart attacks and strokes. These were the main killers in previous times but since the better control of blood pressure, diabetes and cholesterol, all factors associated with blood vessel disease, people live longer and die of cancer and increasingly now, dementia.. It is true that the risk level for cholesterol has been reduced but that is based on observations on large numbers which showed benefits even at the lower level. The side effects occur only in certain people and obviously those who experience these side effects should stop the drug but the majority tolerate the medicines very well.
      I do understand that there is a mistrust of big pharma and believe me I know of thier sharp practices but it is also true that there is a place for these and other medications.

      • John Goss

        “I do understand that there is a mistrust of big pharma and believe me I know of thier sharp practices but it is also true that there is a place for these and other medications.”

        I certainly found a place for mine.

        Debate is welcome as far as I’m concerned. If you watch the film you will learn that there was a massive study (137, 000 I think, but I might be plucking that out of the sky) who following heart events were tested for blood cholesterol levels on entry into hospital. Their cholesterol levels were lower than for the rest of society.

        I am not a medical expert and have to rely on others’ opinions. As to atheroma, according to what I understand from the film, it is the result of scarring of the inner wall of the artery, akin to scabbing over on the outer skin, except when scabbing of the outer skin takes place the scab falls off and the skin mends. Yes we are living longer. There is no evidence (except Pharma evidence) that statins are responsible for increased longevity. Indeed in my lifetime there have been big lifestyle changes, most significantly a purge on smoking, warnings on cigarette packets, no smoking in public buildings, and increased emphasis on the benefits of exercise (gym culture, jogging, cycle-tracks). Dr Kendrick believes that out of all the recommendations of mainstream medical thought only two are really merit-worthy: exercise (positive) and smoking (negative).

        If you are a member of the medical profession you might care to take it up with him. He appears to have an endearing sense of humour. As for me the benefits of not being on statins have given me a new lease of life. Binning the tablet box has been one of the best things I ever did. If I die tomorrow I won’t regret the decision.

        • SA

          John
          Thanks for responding.
          “I am not a medical expert and have to rely on others’ opinions. As to atheroma, according to what I understand from the film, it is the result of scarring of the inner wall of the artery, akin to scabbing over on the outer skin, except when scabbing of the outer skin takes place the scab falls off and the skin mends.”
          Except in this case the scab does not fall off but eventually causes blockage of the vessels or clots forming round the injured area.
          “There is no evidence (except Pharma evidence) that statins are responsible for increased longevity. Indeed in my lifetime there have been big lifestyle changes, most significantly a purge on smoking, warnings on cigarette packets, no smoking in public buildings, and increased emphasis on the benefits of exercise (gym culture, jogging, cycle-tracks). Dr Kendrick believes that out of all the recommendations of mainstream medical thought only two are really merit-worthy: exercise (positive) and smoking (negative).”
          What you say is partially if not completely true. The increase in survival is due to many different factors and nobody claims that it is solely due to statins. But major clinical trials factor all these variables in. So that if you do everything else and not take statins it is probably not likely to alter an individual’s life expectancy but if you take 100 individuals, say 5 of them may live longer. So what I am saying is that yes the use of statins indiscriminately may mean that many people take them unnecessarily but until all the risk factors are analysed separately for each individual (something that medical pharmacogenetics is a science to tackle this) with the aim of individualising treatment to each patient according to thier genetics and individual other medical situation.

  • Radar O'Reilly

    More Balls than the Scots?

    Formerly imprisoned in Egypt broadcaster Majid Nawaz looks like winning Craig’s “Balls” award over the quiet August Bank Holiday weekend.

    His London Broadcasting Club Saturday show was today devoted to the “we’ve lost the civil war in Syria meme” as he relayed news from British officials in Riyadh who haven’t announced very loudly that we seem to be pulling back from the long-running externally funded campaign apparently using terrorism to overthrow the despotic local government.

    I listened to Majid’s LBC show, and he was impressive as usual, but I only listened to half of what he said, as there was a lot of reading from “can I keep my job please scripts,” it seemed. The relevant half that he opined was quirky and informative, it took “Balls” to discuss such themes. Obviously like myself, he wasn’t seeking to overthrow any governments, nor even change their minds , but reflecting on fascist violence abroad, as it were.

    Tonight when I checked the LBC web-page for his show :-

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/is-it-time-to-accept-defeat-in-syria/

    – was sadly missing, a simple “Error 404 – this page does not exist”, shame, who would’ve thunk?

    However using the multi-trillion dollar ‘slurp’ technology I was able to find it here:-

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?source=hp&q=cache%3Awww.lbc.co.uk%2Fis-it-time-to-accept-defeat-in-syria%2F&oq=cache%3Awww.lbc.co.uk%2Fis-it-time-to-accept-defeat-in-syria%2F

    Slurp to the rescue?, just what is going on?

    • giyane

      UK policy is to obey US policy, which under Obama was for the EU to organise a terrorist war against the sovereign Syrian people. Trump has told Merkel to stop that policy forthwith, and the UK looks pretty daft trying to maintain an impression of continuity, while keeping its options open for a US volte-face.

      In this post by Craig, about Trump’s Alt-Right opinions, we’ve hardly scratched the surface. But in my experience we will not be allowed to enjoy the glow of satisfaction from the terrorists and their USUKIS sponsors’ humiliation, and daft corgies like Saudi Arabia and Qatar sitting on the Royal cushions and farting in public, for long.

      The deal from Trump is: an end to terrorism on our borders married to a white-supremacist policy from the US. The deal is totally unacceptable, like Trump himself. He comes from an incestuous family and he feels comfortable in a grey zone where nothing is black and white. he is trying to drag the world into a totally unacceptable dilemma. We agree to a fascist USUKIS zone of the world, in exchange for his ending all proxy Islamo-fascism in our neighbours, the Middle East.

      Obviously we have to reject the premise of the deal 100%. We must refuse the deal unconditionally and absolutely or we will in fact be signing up to a 4th Reich. It’s not an easy choice, but we cannot afford to condone a US policy of white supremacy as part of any deal. Trump is turning out to be an ultra-manipulative monster. After telling trump to stuff himself, we will have to sort out Obama’s mess in the Middle east, by working with a new EU, now not supporting terror in the Middle East. We must not ally ourselves with the US, so long as Trump wants to compromise us.

      It’s much better to stand up to evil when it first shows its face.

  • giyane

    Thanks for the link John.
    Russia is continuing to destroy Boris Johnson’s Al Qaida.
    https://friendsofsyria.wordpress.com/2017/08/25/russian-air-force-destroys-over-1000-terrorist-sites-in-syria-this-week/
    This tory party looks more like a message in a bottle than a dinghy drifting in the Atlantic.
    Mrs May should resign before the Tory Party Conference, enabling Jeremy Corbyn to reverse May’s hijacking of Brexit to the xenophobic mob.

    The only reason I voted for Brexit was the EU’s involvement in the US war on Syria. This policy has now been reversed by Trump. Mrs May’s hijacking of Brexit to the racist minority is just as unforgiveable as Trump supporting the US Alt-Right. The only difference I can see is that two former US Presidents had the guts to speak out against Trump’s courting of White Supremacy, and nobody has spoken out against May’s racist Brexit.
    Shame on us. If UK politicians refuse to stand up for British tolerance, for fear of being branded as in-democratic is completely disgraceful. It’s an insult to millions of UK citizens who prove their generosity of spirit in accepting and helping immigrants on a daily basis.

    The project Mrs May stands for doesn’t represent the vast majority of the British people, or even her own party. It’s time for her to go. Now. She represents the very worst sewage of society, and this attempt of hers to save her skin by promising to resign after Brexit will only exacerbate the calls for her to go. Out Trout. Like the Maybug, she’s had her day.

  • Dr Alan Campbell

    While I agree with much of the sentiments here, Cumberland Street was not named after the notorious, genocidal ‘Butcher’ (1721-1765), a son of George II, but rather the fifth son of George III (1771-1851) who was later the King of Hanover. As a resident of the street this is important to me!

    • Anon1

      Don’t let a trifling little fact like that get in the way of another manufactured nationalist grievance…

  • Sharp Ears

    You Scots have a beautiful new bridge over the Forth.

    https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/DD32/production/_96562665_mediaitem96562664.jpg

    Construction started in 2011 and the cost is £1.35bn.

    Wednesday 30 August
    In the early hours of Wednesday morning, the Queensferry Crossing will fully open to traffic in both directions.
    Police will put in place a rolling roadblock to stop traffic driving across the Forth Road Bridge and will redirect them across the Queensferry Crossing.
    The Northbound carriageway will be opened first. The southbound carriageway will be opened about 45 minutes later.
    The bridge will be fully open to traffic for the rest of the day and the following day.
    ¬
    ¬
    Thursday 7 September
    The bridge will re-open to traffic, with no pedestrian access.
    The initial speed limit will be 40mph but after work has been completed to adapt the Forth Road Bridge public transport will be switched back to the old bridge and the Queensferry Crossing will become a 70mph motorway.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40972881

    Surely it will be given a better name.

    • J

      I have to admit, I simply don’t accept the premise of the article. Compared to the objective violence of capital, of the status quo then, let alone now, how was Pankhurst violent? The context requires such astonishing finesse to work at all, even on it’s own terms, one has to ask who wrote this egregious shit? Olivia? What’s your game?

      • Loony

        You write:

        “The Northern states did not thrive on nor did they need chattel slavery as a means of enriching themselves. The South did. Robert E. Lee was the leader of a Southern insurrection to separate from the broader America to preserve the chattel slavery system”

        Is this true?

        For it to be accepted as true you would need to explain why on March 2 1861 the US Congress (consisting only of northern states) passed the Corwin Amendment – an amendment that gave constitutional protection to slavery.

        March 2 1861 was 2 days prior to the inauguration of Lincoln as President. As part of his inaugural address Lincoln, in reference to the Corwin Amendment stated “I have no objection to its being made express and irrevocable”

        If Robert E Lee was a racist devoted to the continuation of slavery and who led a military campaign to defend slavery and fought against people opposed to slavery then why do you think Robert E Lee was the first person to be offered command of the Union forces?

        Did not Orwell opine that the best way to destroy a people is to destroy their history? Is this not what we are witnessing today?

        • Peter Beswick

          “Did not Orwell opine that the best way to destroy a people is to destroy their history?”

          No!

          But it is an excellent example of how making history up can develop into truth.

        • Salford Lad

          We are viewing the American Civil War from a modern politically correct view of multiculturism and diversity.
          There is no way a Civil War foot soldier of the Northern Union would have laid down his life for black slaves rights. This would have meant he was disinpowering himself in the labour market by the competition from freed slaves.
          Slavery was not the main issue of the American Civil War . States Rights to self determination was the issue. Lincoln passed the Abolition Declaration hoping a slave revolt would occur in the South, while the Confederate menfolk were absent fighting, it never happened.
          Robert E.Lee had freed his slaves 3 years before the Civil war in which 620,000 mainly white soldiers died and many more maimed.
          History was re-written to give a moral twist to what was a Central Govt illegal power grab.Lincoln was a racist to his core and History has been whitewashed.

          • giyane

            The long-term view should surely take in who these slaves were before they were transported to the US. the other day I was with my Caribbean boss when an African student asked him where he was from. She wanted to know if he was from her tribe .. in Africa.
            Not only were they previously free, but also Muslim. the triangular slave trade removed respectable black Muslims from the colonial treasures of Africa and replaced them with animists like the Indian guru now in the news. It displaced the indigenous Inouit in the colonial treasures of America and replaced them with idolaters i.e. Christians. And it also gave wealth to the worst kind of criminals in the UK who were prepared to undertake such evil crimes and gave them power over Godfearing folk in the UK.

            Not unlike the current machinations of USUKIS to displace the pious Muslims of Syria and Iraq with the scum of the earth al Qaida and Daesh.

            An American slave can draw himself up to his full height and look the President in the eye as an equal. The political class of the US is off its rocker, as also are the Conservative party of the UK.

        • Courtenay Barnett

          Loony,
          I would not deny that issues of taxation, statutory provisions and socio-economic relationships at and about the time of the US Civil War were all dynamics working.
          I stick to my point about the base of the economy and the divide between the economic dynamics of the Northern states and the Southern states at the time. Chattel slavery was still a colossal factor in the socio-economic lives of Southerners.
          Some would argue that someone, such as myself, is superimposing modern thoughts ( with 20/20 hindsight) and values on an era where the values were different. I have had this discussion before. Take an example of Lord Mansfield in the UK. He was Lord Chief Justice. He had connections to slave wealth in the Caribbean and a child by a Black lady. His daughter’s picture hung in his mansion and curiosity was aroused as to who she was. The research confirmed and a film was made of her story and heritage. He was the presiding Judge in two seminal cases of the Zong and in the James Somerset case. He ruled in the latter case that slavery did not exist in England for it was an “odious” ( his word used in the Judgment) condition ( see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dido_Elizabeth_Belle). The irony of course, is his obtaining great wealth from the slave trade, having a daughter by one of the Blacks, then affirming abolition in England but not in the places from which the wealth was being generated in the Caribbean. The use of the word “odious” makes clear that be it in the UK or in the US there was sufficient understanding at the time that chattel slavery was not a condition one would wish upon one’s worst enemy.
          As regards the factors operating at the time of the US Civil War, simply read the letters of the Confederate soldiers. It becomes crystal clear that they were fighting to preserve chattel slavery with full knowledge that the freeing of the Blacks implied social changes that they were less than eager to live side by side with them once Blacks became free human beings. One cannot deny these motivational factors; no more than one can deny that many of the statues now in issue were put in place years after the Civil War as responses to Federal legislative changes and reminders to the Blacks of their assigned social positions.
          That is my response and how I see it.
          Cheers.
          Courtenay

        • Courtenay Barnett

          Loony,
          The specific question you asked was:-

          “If Robert E Lee was a racist devoted to the continuation of slavery and who led a military campaign to defend slavery and fought against people opposed to slavery then why do you think Robert E Lee was the first person to be offered command of the Union forces?

          Did not Orwell opine that the best way to destroy a people is to destroy their history? Is this not what we are witnessing today?”
          Trace the history to get your answer
          Robert Robert E. Lee was a Colonel at the time with the United States Army. He resigned from the United States army just two days after he was offered command of the Union army. That was three days after his home state of Virginia had seceded from the Union. It was then two days later that Lee was got his appointment as commander of Virginia’s forces. His rank was that of major general.
          So, by tracing the actual history we find that Lee was siding with a slave owning state in support of his chosen mission to protect that social order – or – in modern terminology – ‘the culture’ that the Union army would destroy. His offer of a leadership positon on the Union side testified more to his military abilities than it did to his human traits or compassion for or against the Blacks. He did ultimately chose the side that was anti-Black freedom. Trust that this answers you as regards:-
          “…then why do you think Robert E Lee was the first person to be offered command of the Union forces?”
          Orwell does not sit comfortably as a reference point. It is not ‘a people’s destruction’ in issue. It is fight by some people on a side which would have sustained slavery versus a fight on the other which resulted in its abolition.

          • Loony

            I think the point is that the US civil war had little to do with slavery. The north was quite content with the status quo as it pertained to slavery, that after all is what the Corwin Amendment was all about.

            The fact that Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union forces is suggestive that there were no great ideological differences. Sure Robert E Lee was a gifted military commander but then so was Field Marshall Von Manstein. It does not need stating that Von Manstein was never offered command of British forces in World War 2.

            The Civil War was not really about slavery – its abolition just happened to drop out of the consequences of the war.

            I obviously agree that slavery was odious, and that its abolition is something to celebrate. However anyone can become confused. It is true that the confederacy was in favor of the maintenance of slavery, but it is also true that the Union had no objections to slavery.

            Confusion can run both deep and broad, and it can have consequences. Look at the British. Most of them think that Britain defeated Nazi Germany. Few British are aware that more people from Tbilisi died in the war than all UK deaths combined. No doubt very few British could actually find Tbilisi on a map. This confusion now encourages the current UK government to make facile threats against Russia, and no-one cares. It is this same confusion that encourages a number of African Americans to assume that the Confederacy hated them and the Union loved them. Neither is true.

          • fred

            The people opposed to slavery were the people scared of losing their jobs if slavery spread northwards as it looked like doing. Employers one side of a line found it hard to compete with slave owners the other side of the line and were looking at ways of replacing employees with slaves.

  • Republicofscotland

    Well according to the British nationalist press, Jeremy Corbyn’s (whose just realised a hard Brexit will be disasterous. Still it only took him more than a year for the penny to drop). Five day tour of Scotland was a great success, however, the crowds, and I use the word loosely who attended those events tell a different story.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/storming-the-nation/

    Staying on Labour for a moment, the Scottish British Nationalist Labour branch office of London Labour, and indeed, the Tories and Libdem British nationalist branch offices in Scotland, are at present attempting to make political hay, over the new Forth crossing bridge.

    If memory serves, the British nationalist branch offices of Labour, the Tories and the Libdems, attacked the Scottish government at every opportunity over the building of the bridge.

    Only the SNP, in government have the interests of the Scottish people at heart. Still I would like to see the SNP become more pro-active in opposing Westminster.

    • reel guid

      Yes Ros. How dare the SNP do anything as positive for the Scottish economy as building a bridge? Us Scots should learn our place is to be an economic hinterland, supplying oil money to build the biggest and best infrastructure projects for London. Supplying soldiers for foreign military adventures.

      You’re right too about being proactive. Sturgeon is starting to look as if she’s conceded the initiative and is just reacting to events. She needs to get the gloves off and show some of that North Ayrshire toughness we know she has.

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