There has been surprisingly little coverage of almost three hundred arrests yesterday of protestors across Russia demonstrating against Putin on his birthday. While the evidence so far is that demonstrations were not suppressed with the same level of brutal thuggery as witnessed in Spain, many more arrests were made which will have long term consequences for protestors.
I fear the reason it was not covered much is that it is unsurprising. We have become habituated to the idea that democracy has not really taken root in Russia, and probably will not. But Putin’s continued domination of Russian politics, his playing of the system to avoid the restriction on number of terms, the elimination of the opposition media and the gradual but relentless tightening of the limits of free expression, are not inevitable.
Children of the Cold War like myself were brought up to view Russia as isolated, threatening and entirely irrelevant to contemporary European culture. That of course is wrong. Russian writers, thinkers, scientists and composers are central to the very fabric of European civilisation. Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Bulgakov are as central to our thought as Tchaikovsky is to our emotion.
The end of the Cold War promised to reunite Europe’s great cultural traditions. The neo-imperial ambition of the western powers, and their remorseless pursuit of the neoliberal agenda, has since again isolated Russia from the West, despite the fact that very many (myself included) have been very thankful to Putin for redressing the balance of Western foreign policy, particularly in the Middle East, where the USA’s Saudi driven support for Sunni jihadists is barking mad.
One result of the neoliberal fury at Putin’s great effectiveness at frustrating their international designs, has been the McCarthy like anti-Russian phobia sweeping the USA. Today is exactly one year since the FBI announced it was investigating Russian “hacking” allegedly to damage neoliberal idol Hillary, and in that twelve months the one thing that is clear is that there is not one single solid bit of evidence to back it up. It is perfectly possible both to recognise that Trump is a disaster, and to understand that the Trump/Russia scandal is the biggest Fake News of all.
But none of that must blind us to the very real democratic deficit in Russia, and the very real failures in Russian democracy, which is going backwards not forwards. Nor must it blind us to the very nasty anti-Muslim and anti-refugee subtext to Russian nationalism, which explains some of the strange preferences of Russian media in the West. Those arrests of demonstrators yesterday ought not have happened. Russia can be better than this.
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I think I notice a softening towards Russia in this blogpost. If anything I tend to be over-supportive of Russia but mostly to redress the MSM imbalance. There are lots of things wrong, though in general the economy is improving,
“Those arrests of demonstrators yesterday ought not have happened. Russia can be better than this.”
I have been arrested on demonstrations. But I was not shot with a rubber bullet or smacked in the head with a police baton or truncheon. Being arrested is unpleasant, even more so if you have to make the journey from Birmingham to London to appear in court. I have not been to Russia since it was Soviet-controlled. I thought recently you were arguing that Catalans should not be abused by policing authorities and that not a single arrest was made, unless I got that wrong.
There is very little opposition to Putin in Russia. Everybody seems to like him apart from the western-funded Open Russia which is responsible for trying to bring “western democracy” to the country. Kara Murza has recently left Russia again to carry on his crusade against those who saved his life under the pretext that he has been poisoned a second time. This of course is nonsense. Russian doctors brought him out of a coma (I suspect self-induced through some kind of medication) and technically saved his life. He should be thankful. But he has a role to play for his funders, a bit like the role Jake Wallis Simons plays for his backers.
Three hundred people from a decreasing minority group, who, according to sources I have read set out to get themselves arrested is a very small number and may not even make the press in Russia (though it would made a big thing in the western media), It is only a third of those battered by the Spanish police.
I almost regret doing a sit-down demonstration outside Smithfield market protesting against the shipping of cattle across the English Channel (traumatic in itself) only to be slaughtered here. But I do not regret making my voice heard in trying to bring this abominable mistreatment of animals to an end. There may be those among the arrested who genuinely believe in their cause.
Finally I would say that Open Ukraine, a project which set up a coup government in Kiev run by chocolate oligarch Petro Poroshenko, who declared war on his own people, the first civil-war in Ukraine for almost a century, has not turned out very well. God knows how it will end. Russians are not stupid. They do not want the likes of Kara Murza trying to destabilise an economy even US sanctions cannot destabilise. This year has been the best grain harvest in Russia for decades.
The Russian government has nothing to gain by poisoning Kara Murza or Litvinenko. Neither had any influence in mainstream Russian opinion, any more than Nemtsov who was assassinated. I do not know whether the four people serving prison sentences for his murder were the murderers, but a jury found them guilty. A verdict by jury is a lot better than facing a single appointed judge who may or may not have personal prejudices. I’m sure Craig you would agree with this.
John,
In 1992 I visited Russia and I liked St. Petersburg and not so much Moscow. Just an aside.
My instinct is not to hate or ignore the significance ( both geographically and politically) of Russia.
It is better to have a global countervailing force to the US than not to have any.
It was ten years before that that I last visited and agree with you that St Petersburg is more impressive than any other major city I visited, It is steeped in history. I found Moscow very modern by comparison and yet it is ironically older.
“It is better to have a global countervailing force to the US than not to have any.”
Indeed. Having the Warsaw Pact counterbalance gave more stability to Europe. Since then of course former Warsaw Pact countries have learnt what it is like to pay for higher education, how employers can make you redundant and add to a growing pool of unemployed.
My understanding too Courtenay regarding former Warsaw Pact countries is that Poland is constructing a barbed wire fence to keep out “guest workers”, “smugglers” and other “wage-earners” from Ukraine under the pretext of keeping out wild boars. Furthermore Poland is not giving any more aid to Ukraine and relations between the two countries are deteriorating on a day to day basis. This could be wrong because I got it from a Russian source.
http://nrt24.ru/ru/news/polsha-otgorazhivaetsya-ot-ukrainy-kolyuchey-provolokoy
John,
Trying times all round. I believe that we are at an epoch changing stage of global events for a number of reasons. Not least, the US is central to what is happening at present:-
• US policies impact the global financial system;
• Energy; and
• Agriculture; and
• Issues of war and peace.
Consider for a moment if:-
• The US did not have to support 700 bases to sustain its ‘global hegemonic’ quest around the world; and
• The costs of wars were eliminated by not starting them in the first place; and
• The military-industrial complexes of all the industrial world turned their swords into plowshares.
“Trump’s proposed military budget increase of 54 billion dollars was bested by the Senate and House, both of which agreed to a 77-billion-dollar increase. The National Defense Authorization Act of 2017 passed by the Senate will add several hundred million dollars to “deter Russian aggression.”
But, the people in the US are in substantial need and so are the vast majority of humanity in substantial need while money continues to be squandered on wars while telling us that the DRNK can be nuked ( as if the entire world would not be impacted by such an act of lunacy). Sounds like a nightmare scenario being articulated by the rulers.
Also – the alternative sounds like a dream – but – my real point is that so much is wasted in the world where people really do not have to go hungry and in need in multitudes, as is the present ‘world order’ (disorder)?
I fear for the planet like you Courtenay if left to the US there is not much hope. I read a scholarly article recently which likened its imperial decline to that of Rome, with increasingly inept leaders, like Caligula and Nero. The US is in terminal decline. It’s just that Nero and Caligula did not have their hands on a nuclear button that could send us all into terminal decline.
Putin knows that he is in a struggle to the death with people who would love to have him dangling from a rope or with a bayonet up his arse and reduce the Russian people to the lowest level of slavery they can get away with.
And yet you are demanding he should be whiter than white in dealing with the dupes of fiends who are utterly rotten to the core.
This is an existential struggle Craig – you must know that surely?
“To the rulers of the world in Washington and Europe, ……………….Russia’s true crime is its independence, and China’s true crime is its independence. In an American-owned world, independence is intolerable.”
(The Revolutionary Act of Telling the Truth, John Pilger)
And worth listening to Michael Parenti explain why countries that reject the global economic order, refuse to open up their country for exploitation by trans national corporations and that insist on using their country’s resources for the betterment of their own people rather than global capital, have to develop effective means to defend themselves against the violent reaction & economic sabotage that will inevitably follow. It’s the age old question of do the ends justify the means? Certainly achieving an equal, fair and just society will not be easy given the opposition for whom the status quo is just fine and who will do anything to make sure nothing threatens their privilege, wealth and power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gtUaGV6mNI
This also is a perceptive piece by Pilger though not directly on topic. But it is probably his latest article – on what challenges Jeremy Corbyn is going to face when he becomes Prime Minister. No wonder JW Simons and company are shit-scared,
https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2017/10/07/the-rising-of-britains-new-politics-by-john-pilger/
Personally, I think the CIA\Open Society rent-a-mob was asking for it. Literally: asking to be arrested, to score propaganda points against Putin. They got what they wanted, so can hardly whine about Putin’s repression, which was a known consequence of their calculated actions. Most of them aren’t ordinary Russians protesting an authoritarian Government anyway.
This isn’t a game. The globalists want hegemony, and Russia is next. They don’t care about Russians, and couldn’t give a flying about their concerns. Putin is a war-time leader, and we have to ask ourselves how Churchill would have dealt with German spies during WW2? He would have sent them to prison, for the duration of the war, simple as that. And of course, the rent a mob gives Putin the perfect pretext to clamp down on genuine protest. So in effect the CIA\Open Society fascists are enabling the Russian oligarchs repress their own people, an ethical consideration that literally none of them has ever considered.
I run the risk of sounding like a supporter of authoritarianism. Well, such is life. I’d like Putin to be a much more liberal leader, and I wish he hadn’t arrested 300 people for protesting, even if they are CIA stooges. But we are close to declaring war, so I’m hardly surprised. We should look to our own house first, not last.
I am with you, Hieroglyph. Well said. See my letter just now. Tony Kevin
very good… i fully agree… craig has swallowed the bullshit…
Are you really Nevermind? I don’t think so.
This has been a fascinating, illuminating correspondence, Rarely, I have to disagree with Craig Murray on this especially in his two followup comments which were intemperate. Craig reached for the F Word as a term of abuse for those who defended Putin. We are not fascists, Craig.
All the letterwriters here can be divided into two groups: those who are comfortable sitting in lofty judgement on the actions of state leaders, as if they are contemplating this world from some safe separate universe, and those who try to see actions of state actors as taking place in a real world where we all live and where we all risk being dead if the great powers get their relations wrong. As a former ambassador, I am in the second real world camp. I am surprised if Craig is not there too. I think the tone of some of the correspondence irritated him.
A few people rightly used the word context. Justin Glyn’s argument which I support is about context and proportionality. Putin and Russia have faced around 30 years of relentless Western undermining. All this is set out in detail in my new book Return to Moscow ( University of Western Australia Publishing, 2017). In every possible way, Western governments have tried to erode Russian self-respect and morale and military and economic strength.
Putin is waging a heroic struggle to defend his country against unscrupulous Western enemies and of course I admire him for that, as 80% of Russians do. And I get angry with the arrogance of Western ‘balanced’ critics who presume to sit in moral judgement on Russia , disdaining this brave country from a great height.
Of course Navalny is a Western-trained and probably Western-funded agitator. Of course he should be allowed to stand in the presidential election, to show the world how little support he has in Russia. Russian suppression of human rights activism does not begin to be on a par with what happens to underprivileged groups in Western countries, and is commensurate and proportionate to the real and present external threats Russia faces. Nothing that has been done to Pussy Riot or to arrested street demonstrators in Russia begins to compare. Russians look at the horrors of Ukraine today and think, there but for the grace of God – and Putin’s firm leadership – go we. They know they are engaged in an existential struggle for national survival.
Give Russia a break, Craig. You are too smart and experienced a former diplomat to pontificate like this about another country that you know something about.
I’ve just read this review of your book Return to Moscow. Seems a good read.
https://anzlitlovers.com/2017/04/02/return-to-moscow-by-tony-kevin/
As an Aussie you might be interested to learn, if you don’t already know, of Russian émigré poet George Ivanov’s work Распад атома which has been translated into English by Jerome Katsell and Stanislav Shvabrin as “Disintegration of the Atom”. This prose poem was written (1937) before “Animal Farm” but is likewise allegorical. It was also written before the atom was split. The wild animals (зверьки) were of Australian extraction and spoke in the Australian language. The Australian language is a code with “proper Australian words refashioned from ordinary ones according to the Australian style” (Katsell/Shvabrin). I believe this code permeates the whole prose poem.
Well worth listening to brilliant American historian and political analyst, Michael Parenti discuss why countries that choose a different economic path from the world capitalist order have always had to be hyper vigilant and ruthless in protecting their right to sovereignty and self determination. It be wonderful if it could be otherwise. Regrettably history shows us that societies that refuse to bow down to Western capitalist interests and play by the rule of law and democracy, they will be undermined at every level, they will receive no mercy, they will be destroyed, not least so as not to encourage the others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gtUaGV6mNI
Sorry I haven’t expressed my comment very well, to be clear, societies that refuse to bend to Western interests and whose leaders continue to play by the rule of law and democracy, for example Allende in Chile, Abenz in Guatamala, Mossadegh in Iran and who believed that the opposition would also play by the rules, learnt otherwise to their great cost.
True, but I’m not sure what that has to do with Putin, who could hardly be described as “play[ing] by the rule of law and democracy”.
Of course Navalny is a Western-trained and probably Western-funded agitator.
Of course…
Russia can be better than this. Quite so. Just how Russia can improve is exhaustively set out, thanks to Russia’s commendable compliance with human rights law.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Countries/ENACARegion/Pages/RUIndex.aspx
http://tbinternet.ohchr.org/_layouts/treatybodyexternal/TBSearch.aspx?Lang=En&CountryID=144
In this case the issue is not, strictly speaking, democracy, that is, ICCPR Article 25, but freedom of assembly, Article 21. The detailed review documentation is at your fingertips for informed discourse.
For some purposes it may be helpful to compare Russia with its avowed enemy America, on the same comprehensive and objective criteria.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/countries/LACRegion/Pages/USIndex.aspx
What you will find is it’s the peoples of the USA who got the short end of the stick from their state. By the most complete human rights standards, the US government is in the cellar, far behind Russia – to the point that the US state’s sovereignty is in question under R2P.
http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Indicators/Pages/HRIndicatorsIndex.aspx
By any reasonable reading of this evidence you have to wish that Russia would return the West’s favor and do to the USA what we did to the USSR: knock it over, rip it apart, wreck its defense industrial base – relegate the whole state to the museum of antiquities, as Lenin put it. The downtrodden peoples of the USA would be eternally grateful for such Russian help. It’s an obligation, not just for Russia but erga omes, since it involves US state breaches of jus cogens. The US government’s a problem for the world.
Look over there!
You will find few more consistent human rights abuses in the West than I. None of which excuses Russia arresting those who wish to protest against Putin.
Russia’s performance at form filling on human rights obligations is indeed admirable. Its performance in allowing freedom of expression and freedom of assembly is less so.
Interesting that we should be pontificating about whether somewhere is democratic enough when their elected leader has united the nation and commands an 82.5% approval rating (down from 85%) when in our perfect democracies a prime minister is appointed by a party that can get in with figures below 30% and whose head of state is unelected.
SA,
Don’t be stupid. Even if Putin had 99.9% of the popular vote, the 0.1% would have the right to assemble to protest against him without being arrested. If you don’t accept that, you are indeed a very unpleasant person.
All of the pro-Putin comments here, even apparently intellectual ones as from Tony Kevin, amount to no more than this.
“Putin is right. His opponents are evil. Therefore he is right to arrest anyone who disagrees with him.”
It matters not how many hundred words you add, that remains your argument. Whether you prefer to be called Fascists or Stalinists I care not. You are certainly totalitarians. And you can fuck off.
Craig – I think you need to re-read Tony Kevin’s and Justin Glynn’s comments – they absolutely do not say that Putin has been right to arrest anyone – indeed they say precisely the opposite.
Suggesting that they are totalitarians on the basis of these is ludicrous and your aggressive approach towards their balanced comments is not worthy of you.
This is becoming a worrying aspect of your blogging these days. We all know what pressure you’re under, but please take a moment before making such accusations – unless you want us all to fuck off.
Nice phony straw-man Craig, as nobody has argued for arresting people who disagrees with Putin.
You have always been keen to stress the causality factor, for instance iro blowback terrorism, yet although you correctly cite the anti-Russian hysteria whipped up by the West, you just can’t bring yourself to even mention/acknowledge that countries that are constantly threatened by other Powers, a certain element of authoritarianism as a defence mechanism is inevitable; which is not to excuse it, (as per blowback terrorism), but to put the matter in its correct context.
Craig
I did not say that nobody should dissent. They can do so within the law. In this case the demonstrators apparently broke the law and were arrested and probably later released. This happens all the time everywhere. As others have pointed out you do not seem to be putting this into the context of a developing democracy that is not perfect but is only 17 years old and surrounded by others who are sniping if not actually rooting for the dismemberment of Russia, and this is not paranoia, it happened in the Yeltsin years and continues through the expansion of NATO eastwards and the constant Russophobia which you seem to be joining.
“Putin is right. His opponents are evil. Therefore he is right to arrest anyone who disagrees with him.” This is a total reductio ad absurdum.
If you wish to call us names and use the rather stale accusations of Fascism, totalitarianism and Stalinists against those who care to read your blog, and even contribute to your defence fund, then yes we will clear off and not comment, visit your website or contribute to your defence fund.
You may also recall how democracy also means tolerating discussion that you disagree with, anger gets you nowhere.
keep on digging a deeper hole for yourself craig..
I think we should follow Noam Chomsky’s advice to concentrate on righting the wrongs in our own country as that is the ethical thing to do as we are more likely to be able to do something.
Why is it we have this arrogance about lecturing other countries. It’s very disrespectful to their populations. Who do we think we are ?
Craig,
I just saw this, thank you. I am no more intellectual than you: but I do think I have a more balanced view of Russia than you have at the moment. You seem to have painted yourself into a corner. I would be happy to send you a PDF review copy of my book ‘Return to Moscow’ if you give me a secure private email address for this . ( I am bound by publisher copyright to send it to you privately as a potential reviewer). I hope you might consider reviewing my book for your blog. We are probably closer in our evaluations of Russia and the Western efforts to undermine it than you can see at the moment.
I will continue to read your Blog. Regards, Tony Kevin [email protected]
We have no way of telling whether the Russian demonstrators did anything that ought to attract arrest in a democracy.
Normalising torture
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/oct/09/cia-torture-black-site-enhanced-interrogation
This is the democracy that the rest of the world should aspire to?
Two professional Psychologists provide a torture programme for the pentagon and CIA. I don’t know what the professional bodies in the ‘free’ west make of them and whether they have lost their licences to practice.
So many psychologists in the West now work for corporations or the military. A good book to read is Psychology and Capitalism by Ron Roberts.
Yes, SA, the west lecturing other countries on human rights is quite a larf. What I like best is the UK demanding apologies and reparations from other countries, after its record all over the world. To India alone i trillion pounds are due in reparations, and as for an apology, for the Jalianwala Bagh massarce, the numerous famines, the stolen jewels and treasures, the centuries of humiliation, the racism, etc, forget it!
Vlad! Vald! Oh barrel chested wrestler of bears! Save me save me. I fear being kettled by the CIA! Charge your stallion big Vlad! I have a tea cup with your picture on it.
😀 Witty Phil. That’s certainly an image that comes across for the mass-education of proles.
People who comment on this blog are largely above such Beano and dandy images. 😀 And most do not post emoticons. 😀 😀 😀
When does a referendum count and when not? When does the situation require a referendum and when not?
On March 17, 1991, in a Union-wide referendum 76.4 percent of voters endorsed retention of a reformed Soviet Union. On December 8, the leaders of Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus secretly met in Belavezhskaya Pushcha, in western Belarus, and signed the Belavezha Accords, which proclaimed the Soviet Union had ceased to exist and announced formation of the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) as a looser association to take its place.
The Crimean referendum does not seem to count, at least as far as the West is concerned, yet Kosovo’s situation did not require one.
Baffling.
Those writers and Western politicians who lapped up the words of Gorbachev and Shevardnadze about the failure of Communism and the end of the Cold War(‘New Lies for Old’,Golitsyn, A.)seem to be at the forefront of those condemning Putin and talking up Russia-gate. Do they just have an outdated copy of the Matryoska Russian leader doll on their desks?
Phil the ex-frog has a cup with Putin’s picture on it. 🙂
He’s half naked. It’s very homo erotic.
Are you being homophobic, or just telling us why you’re fixated about a topless Putin ?!
In a Dads Army sketch corporal Jones shakes his fist at overflying aircraft and shouts “dirty Huns”. Once told their ours, he shouts, “come on you heroes” and its just a fact we will tailor our comments on whether its our or their side involved. Hence there will always be a tussle between idealism and pragmatism and realpolitik.
The fact is the satanic neo-cons want to wipe humanity off the map rather than make peace with the Palestinians. They are now targeting the Russians and so I’m naturally sympathetic to the Russians because they’re no threat to Britain and lost millions of lives in two world wars and under communism, so understandable they will take action to defend themselves from the Globalists and hopefully they will act in a proportionate rather than counterproductive way, like Spain.
So how is using violence against people peacefully holding a ballot a proportionate response?
It has just occurred to me that Ruth Davidson sees big burly men intimidating people outside polling stations in Scotland when these men don’t actually exist.
But she can’t see big burly men intimidating people outside polling stations in Catalonia when these men do exist.
I may have misread your last sentence Dave.
One of the reasons the USA does not want Russia relations normalised, is because of the VAST resource of Methane in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Essentially, Syria is becoming a client state of Russia.
Part of Syria – Hatay – that which borders Idlib was stolen by Turkey.
This is the only bit of Turkey, that is known to be underlain by Methane.
Israel has an agreement with Greece and Cyprus to bring Methane into Cyprus, to be processed into Liqueified Natural Gas, this can be transport by boat, anywhere in the world there are harbours.
America wants to ship their fracked Methane to Europe, they are upset the Russians /Iranians have the jump on them.
Russia is building the pipeline from Israel to Cyprus.
There is to be pipelines from he Caspian Sea, linking Russia and the ex-Soviet States, to Iran and Qatar, Iraq and Syria.
Russia has a Naval base in Syria, Russia is going to fund and re-build Syria.
America, will not be able to compete with this massive Methane crescent, feeding Europe.
So Russia must not be normalised
I recently saw a televised live energy meeting, in Russia,
Putin said the future fuel is Methane, it is essentially available forever, it is trasportable, it is cheap and it is cleaner than Coal, Diesel or petrol, as we move to a World dominated by renewables, Methane will be the back-up,
not coal, not oil.
This is a bit out of date but it gives a recent flavour
http://carnegie-mec.org/diwan/60316?lang=en
While much of the world’s attention has recently focused on the threat of pillage and destruction posed by Islamic State forces to the ancient Syrian desert city of Palmyra, damage to the energy supply and potential earnings is probably a bigger concern for the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The Islamic State immediately followed its May 2015 capture of Palmyra with the seizure of nearby gas fields, depriving the regime of 45 percent of its gas and electricity resources, according to Syrian opposition estimates.
@ freddy October 9, 2017 at 13:19
There is another fuel source available. The following article is frightening, but I believe highly credible (and ads have started popping up recently about ‘fuel from algae’):
‘From the Gulf Oil Spill to Hurricane Harvey, the Algae Conspiracy Has Gone Full Circle’:
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2017/09/05/from-the-gulf-oil-spill-to-hurricane-harvey-the-algae-conspiracy-has-gone-full-circle/
‘Here is the thesis for this article: There are several agendas working in concert and the net effect and byproduct of all them is the creation of large algae deposits for the purpose of energy development. This marks the beginning of a new era in energy usage and many people are being hurt in the process.
Major Changes Coming
As Obama left office, he signed a $12 trillion climate change with the UN based on the Paris agreements. Essentially, your energy is going to skyrocket in cost. Your access to energy is going to be severely controlled. One of the most notable changes we are going witness is the conversion of oil to biofuels which will be controlled by the same case of characters.
One biofuel has emerged as the choice and we are seeing this energy being championed in a major way in the MSM with a plethora of commercials like the following….’
This article seems totally credible to me, knowing the depth of depravity of the NWO Bankster puppeteers and their lack of concern for the environment or the people.
The “trouble” that Saudi and other Gulf States, have with Qatar / Iran,
is likely to be mainly about economics, we are taking the economics of Methane.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Qatar
Russia / Iran / Qatar, currently control about half of the World supply of Methane,
this greatly upsets Saudi and America.
Yes, the Spanish interest was to allow the referendum and describe it as advisory only on the presumption there would be a big Remain vote or allow the referendum, promote a boycott and then ignore the result as illegal under the constitution and then promote pro-longed talks to appear reasonable. But it was reckless to hold an independence vote without a single ally in or outside Spain!
These observations by Craig brought to mind a Robert Parry article about the neo-con push for regime change in Russia, in which he opines that ‘“Mysterious deaths” lists represent a type of creepy conspiracy theory that shifts the evidentiary burden onto the targets of the smears who must somehow prove their innocence, when there is no evidence of their guilt (only vague suspicions).’ The right in the USA have used the same technique in relation to the Clintons. The whole article can be read at: https://www.globalresearch.ca/regime-change-in-russia-key-neocon-calls-on-washington-to-remove-president-putin-from-office/5550248
@ Shakesvshav October 9, 2017 at 16:37
Indeed, the article you link to is excellent, par for the course for Global Research:
“Regime Change” in Russia: Key Neocon Calls On Washington To Remove President Putin From Office’:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/regime-change-in-russia-key-neocon-calls-on-washington-to-remove-president-putin-from-office/5550248
‘.The neoconservative president of the U.S.-taxpayer-funded National Endowment for Democracy [NED] has called for the U.S. government to “summon the will” to engineer the overthrow of Russian President Vladimir Putin, saying that the 10-year-old murder case of a Russian journalist should be the inspiration…..’
‘…..NED was a lead actor in the Feb. 22, 2014 coup ousting Ukraine’s elected President Viktor Yanukovych in a U.S.-backed putsch that touched off the civil war inside Ukraine between Ukrainian nationalists from the west and ethnic Russians from the east. The Ukraine crisis has become a flashpoint for the dangerous New Cold War between the U.S. and Russia.
Before the anti-Yanukovych coup, NED was funding scores of projects inside Ukraine, which Gershman had identified as “the biggest prize” in a Sept. 26, 2013 column also published in The Washington Post…..’
‘…..If a disliked candidate wins an election, NED acts as if that is prima facie evidence that the system is undemocratic and must be replaced with a process that ensures the selection of candidates who will do what the U.S. government tells them to do. Put differently, NED’s name is itself a fraud.
But that shouldn’t come as a surprise since NED was created in 1983 at the urging of Ronald Reagan’s CIA Director William J. Casey, who wanted to off-load some of the CIA’s traditional work ensuring that foreign elections turned out in ways acceptable to Washington, and when they didn’t – as in Iran under Mossadegh, in Guatemala under Arbenz or in Chile under Allende – the CIA’s job was to undermine and remove the offending electoral winner…..’
One thing I disagree with Parry on the Clinton’s ‘death list’; there is ample circumstantial evidence of a whole slew of assassinations:
‘THE CLINTON BODY-COUNT’: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/BODIES.php#axzz4v1nQ0QnI
Bill Clinton’s involvement with the Iran/Contra/Cocaine scandal whilst he was Governor of Arkansas is indisputable.
This is not a Repugnant/Demoprat issue; the Repugnants were up to their necks in drugs, paedophilia, murders and vast financial scams as well.
In the UK the Police lay conditions on marches:
https://www.gov.uk/protests-and-marches-letting-the-police-know
‘…By law you must tell the police in writing 6 days before a public march if you’re the organiser.
Tell the police the: date and time of the march; route; the names and addresses of the organisers
The police have the power to:
limit or change the route of your march; set any other condition of your march…’
If you ignore those conditions, you are in trouble.
Russia also has conditions on marches; likewise, if you ignore them, you are also in trouble.
https://www.rt.com/politics/405477-navalny-arrest-unathorized-rallies/
‘..Organizing a public rally without following certain procedures is a civil offense in Russia and punishable with up to 30 days of administrative detention. Navalny was earlier this year convicted on similar charges. In March, he was fined for violating the rules, and in June, sentenced to 30 days in custody for breaking the law on rallies yet again. His sentence was then shortened to 25 days.
Navalney is not eligible to stand for President:
https://www.rt.com/politics/405477-navalny-arrest-unathorized-rallies/
‘…Navalny was found guilty of embezzlement in 2014 and given a suspended sentence. This makes him ineligible under Russian law to register as a candidate in presidential elections.’
Many of the small demos around Russia went off peacefully; presumably the organisers abided by the conditions.
So what has this to do with ‘Free Speech’ or ‘Freedom of Assembly’?
Meanwhile, here’s what happened to a peaceful anti-fracking demonstrator in North Yorkshire recently:
‘Ian R Crane Arrested for LIVESTREAMING : 25th Sept 2017’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goRrDQJN1CU&t=29s
Thanks; this is the post that Craig should have written.
I think Craig needs to write a book, Trump had a ghost one written ‘the art of the deal’. May I propose ‘the art of diplomacy’. To include these quotes from Craig… To no voters in the Scottish referendum ….”You are either evil or quite extraordiarily thick”. To the wealthy no voters “they are deeply unpleasant sociopaths”. [Lack of forgiveness 5-10-14] To Putin opologists…. “You are certainly totalitarians. And you can fuck off” [post Author today]
lol – you have found craigs new calling!
It is surely relevant that in Russia “liberals” are pro-Westerners, associated with the disastrous opening to the West in the 1990s which caused a demographic catastrophe (i.e millions of premature deaths) and, in fulfilling its purpose of turning Russia into a supine supplier of raw materials to the US and its allies, almost destroyed Russia as a viable state – and that perhaps unsurprisingly said “liberals” regularly poll around four – five per cent (and are so lacking in nous that they do not disguise their close association with American neo-cons). Also, that Russia is under sustained attack by the US and its allies, and Russians prefer a leader who will protect their interests rather than one who will do the West’s bidding on “human rights” and “civil society” – such things perhaps look to be of second-order importance when survival is in question (at least according to American threats). So it is no doubt disappointing that Russians support someone as reprehensible as Mr. Putin (and his dreadful sidekicks Mr. Lavrov and Mr. Shoigu who dare to display a level of competence that eludes all of their American counterparts) – but is it so very surprising? and does the solution not have more to do with Western behaviour than Russian? (And I trust the comments on anti-Islamic prejudice just happen to appear in parallel with comments about the Russian government and are not intended to insinuate anything about its policies or attitudes.)
By “it is surely relevant that” do you mean “it justifies arresting demonstrators that…”. If it does, you should say so. If it does not, your post is not relevant.
Again what this amounts to is totalitarian bullshit.
Asked in ignorance: Do either of you know the specifics of these arrests or who all of them are? Possible one or both of you are jumping to conclusions?
Anyway, Telegraph claims we’re going to war with North Korea because of the Americans: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/09/britain-prepares-war-north-korea-new-carrier-could-rushed-service/
This looks more believable by the day: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-us-power-to-collapse-predicted-ussr-fall-johan-galtung-a7460516.html
This also bears closer reading in light of recent events: https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/pentagon-study-declares-american-empire-is-collapsing-746754cdaebf
It doesn’t, so I didn’t say so. What Nicola has to say is worth refraining from dismissing quite so crudely – Navalny’s demonstration was authorised and its location agreed, but he decided to move it to a street where historical re-enactors have their annual festival – bulks up the apparent numbers at his sparsely attended rallies and allows for a photogenic bust-up with the re-enactors which would require police intervention, which Channel Four News for one fell for hook, line and sinker. So, yes, liberals are allowed to protest peacefully, despite all the totalitarian bullshit (you’re on good rational debating form).You are an advocate, I believe, of the practical as well as the principled. We can all hope that Russians will choose what we know to be a more enlightened political system. It is not going to happen while they rightly perceive that we are waging war by various means upon them. And it is not going to happen when they see how those who lambast them in the US and Europe conduct their own affairs. They think it, alas, mere hypocrisy in pursuit of empire. For now, the greater political freedom we all hope for will only produce a more nationalistic and militaristic government – which, among other things, would ban the liberals from exercising their current rights of assembly, and encourage the sort of hatred of Muslims that it seemed to be insinuated mistakenly is current government policy. So your principled defence of civil liberties, if successfully followed through in Russia now, would lead to a curtailment of civil liberties. What in practice can we do to produce the beneficial reform of Russia? Not lecture them, but change our behaviour towards them. Our behaviour in the West is more immediately within our control than the behaviour of Russians. And we are directly responsible for how our governments behave. Of course, continue in high dudgeon about Russia’s undoubted failings, which I too deplore. No-one else seems to be making any noise about it. See, I managed that without “bullshit” or “bollocks”.
I have liaised with police re organising NHS marches and also councils because they are responsible for different parts. The protest rallies were unauthorised in Russia over the weekend and a previous one where Navalny’s campaign tried to break up a planned festival event / historical reenactment by marching away from an authorised route into it. I totally agree that you should have the freedom to protest without fear of consequences and I hope as the Russian Federation continues to evolve that people will find ways to raise their voices without compromising public safety.
FWIW I visited St Petersburg in May as a tourist, people happy to chat and share concerns freely – an issue may be how they are amplified without certain idealists taking advantage of concerns that are not relevant to their own agenda or political goals.
Nicola,
Throughout history, and in every country, political opportunists and corporate interests attempt to manipulate popular concerns. None of which makes the arresting of demonstrators and denial of freedom of assembly alright. It is an abuse of human rights.
It is bollocks to compare the liaisons needed to organise demos in the UK with the deliberate denial of the freedom to demonstrate in Russia, I have been on scores of demos in the UK including quite a few which were “illegal” in that they had not been cleared successfully with the authorities. Nobody got arrested.
Maybe you should attend a protest over in Belfast or Derry craig. The summer months perhaps.
Bring an Irn Bru box and start telling everyone to ‘fuck off’. Should go down a treat.
Craig, it’s not bollocks to compare them. Of you don’t like the comparison fair enough. We agree about the human rights aspects which I already mentioned re fear of consequences. Getting arrested by police for protesting on a demo is just one of many consequences that can occur and it doesn’t make it right.
Here is a story of total Russian incompetence. Next year Russia hosts the World Cup. The FC Zenit stadium is still not finished after twelve years. This is a story of absolutely diabolical incompetence and is the talk of the Russian Press. The worst aspect is this.
“According to the Norwegian magazine “Josimar” 110 North Korean builders had worked on the Zenit Arena. As stated by the Russian lawyer Olga Zeitlina, those laborers lived in terrible conditions and were completely exhausted both mentally and physically. Passports were confiscated in order to prevent them from escaping.
Officially at least ten workers were found dead, but the exact figure remains unknown.”
http://theduran.com/the-story-behind-fc-zenits-twelve-year-construction-saga-of-krestovsky-stadium-in-st-petersburg/
While the deaths in Russia of North Korean workers are deplorable they pale into insignificance against the deaths of Nepalese workers in Qatar building football stadia.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/23/qatar-nepal-workers-world-cup-2022-death-toll-doha
Qatar is a darling of the west so it does not get the gutter-press attacks on its totalitarian slave-state ideology that Russia gets for trying to become a great capitalist country. Here I see an enlargement of Marx’ assertion that capitalist industries and corporations would get bigger and bigger devouring small enterprises until they finally devoured one another (bit of a paraphrase I know) and apply it to capitalist countries. A good socialist economy, even if that is mixed, is a more ideal society. I look forward to Jeremy Corbyn becoming prime minister.
Were there people recently convicted of slavery in the UK?
Why does the UK require a modern day slavery act in 2017?
Yes. I seem to recall there were people prosecuted for slavery recently. Trafficking is a big problem – especially with young girls thinking they are coming for legitimate jobs and ending up in a life of prostitution.
I was thinking more a long the lines of the construction industry.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/uk-family-convicted-for-keeping-slaves-for-up-to-18-years/
I remember that stroy too Graph.
It seems Craig is right, though some link evidence would have been preferable to bad-tempered outbursts:
‘Russia: draconian penalties for peaceful protests’: http://humanrightshouse.org/Articles/18187.html
The sources are hardly unbiased, but that doesn’t matter if the facts are true.
It certainly does not appear that the draconian measures mentioned in this article were used against the birthday protests:
‘Putin birthday protests: Demonstrators arrested as Russians take to streets to oppose leader’:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-day-of-protests-latest-vladimir-putin-birthday-present-alexei-navalny-jail-a7987786.html
Craig’s talk of the non-existent “elimination of the opposition media” shows he does not read the Moscow Times. There is an elimination of freedom of the press but it is not taking place in Russia. It is taking place in the declining empire of the United States.
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/rt-employees-us-are-quitting-en-masse-over-security-fears/ri21194
I rather like the tweet of Julian Assange:
“Want to be a Western journalist in 2017? You can do it!
1) Pick random globally newsworthy event.
Russian press will also be reporting it by definition.
2) Write story: Russian state secretly behind globally newsworthy event as proved by their press reporting it.
3) Profit!”
This is the Moscow Times report of the demonstrations which is updated until midnight Sunday. It is the alternative press and has only had 120 shares. I expect that to increase after this comment.
https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/navalnys-mass-protests-on-putins-birthday-the-highlights-59199
Today is exactly one year since the FBI announced it was investigating Russian “hacking” allegedly to damage neoliberal idol Hillary, and in that twelve months the one thing that is clear is that there is not one single solid bit of evidence to back it up. It is perfectly possible both to recognise that Trump is a disaster, and to understand that the Trump/Russia scandal is the biggest Fake News of all.
Yet another anniversary, then. But do you seriously deny that ‘our’ great and grubby are completely happy to play their international monopolist games with Russia’s great and grubby? That those oligarchs faithful to Putin – never mind the ones risking radioactive tea or worse – are any less of a neoliberal persuasion than ‘our’ Davos attendees? That they don’t salt away their gains in the same tax shelters as any Western asset-stripper?
I think the attempt to portray Russia as any kind of a check or counterbalance to neoliberalism is mistaken. It may be ruled by an absolute despot who influences the allocation of capital, but the channels in which the wealth runs are global. Indeed, if Trump were not surrounded by politicians who are doing fine from the present system in the US, thank you, he’d be doing more than look longingly at a regime (with which he too has undoubtedly had dealings) whose version of neoliberalism is even less troubled by mere morality than his own.
Detailed reporting here on Navalny supporters’ protests across Russia to mark Putin’s birthday. Moscow Times is an independent liberal newspaper. My takeaways: 1. Demonstrations were not ‘mass protests’, quite small numbers were involved, most were curious onlookers rather than demonstrators. 2. Police counter-actions were restrained and cannot fairly be described as brutal 3. To demonstrate without stating a venue/marchroute and obtaining a permit in advance is illegal in Russia, as it is in Western countries. To fail to meet these requirements is deliberately to invite arrest. I believe this was the intention of some of the Birthday March organisers. They are of course entitled to get themselves arrested, in Russia as in Western countries. Tony Kevin.
https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/navalnys-mass-protests-on-putins-birthday-the-highlights-59199
This is a very perceptive article on Turkey, very well worth reading; I post it here for the example it uses of “the far-right Russian provocateur Alexei Navalny”;
http://theduran.com/us-picked-fight-country-not-afraid-fight-back-turkey/
Just because
“we” hate Russia / Syria / Iran / Iraq / Qatar and their Methane Cresent
does not mean “we” can not profit from them.
Qatar signed an initial order for 24 Eurofighter Typhoon combat jets from the U.K. in a surprise win for manufacturer BAE Systems Plc, as the newly isolated Persian Gulf state beefs up air defenses with the third contract placed with a NATO member in two years.
The deal, reached Sunday in the Qatari capital of Doha, marks the country’s first major defense contract with Britain, U.K. Defense Secretary Michael Fallon said in a statement. At a price of 90 million pounds ($122 million) per plane plus further servicing work, the deal could be worth as much as 8.6 billion pounds for the three Eurofighter partners, based on estimates by analysts at UBS Group AG.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-18/qatar-to-buy-24-typhoon-jets-to-beef-up-u-k-defense-partnership
Things are hotting up in
The Methane Zone
http://www.france24.com/en/20171009-video-turkish-troops-begin-operation-idlib-province-syria-deescalation
Turkish troops begin operation in Idlib province in Syria
This is frightening
Turkey is believed to be providing assistance to rebels it has long backed, aiming to implement a de-escalation agreement designed to reduce fighting with pro-government forces in the area, the most populous pocket of Syria still in rebel hands.
They are also expected to make a move on Aleppo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
Turkey is getting VERY upset, it is being carved out of the Eastern Mediterranean Methane fields.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus–Turkey_maritime_zones_dispute
Turkey was a founding partner in the Syrian War.
Turkey is now invading IDLIB.
Turkey, really wants a piece of the Carbon action.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-agricultu/russia-setting-up-direct-shipping-line-to-syria-tass-idUKKBN1CF21K
Regular shipping to commence between Syria and Russia
“We have become habituated to the idea that democracy has not really taken root in Russia, and probably will not. ”
nor has it taken any meaningful shape in the US, UK, canada or many other countries that love to lecture when it comes to russia. also: brexit voters. if you want a group that voted peacefully only to be maligned by supposed fans of “democracy”…
there’s also the small fact that – as you must know by now – what passes for “democracy” in russia is often a group of NGO-funded useful idiots (pussy riot, anyone?) who are trying to deliver death by a million cuts and take the place back to its 1990s “glory days” when it was an open air feeding pit for the slimiest vultures american capital could unleash. given the hostility directed at him and his country in general, i’d say putin and his ilk have shown remarkable restraint in avoiding china-level repression.
Woman, 79, supplying tea to anti-fracking protesters forcibly removed by police
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/oct/10/woman-supplying-tea-anti-fracking-protesters-forcibly-removed-police
I look forward to your 600 word outrage craig. Maybe they get trained in Russia.
(It looks as if the kettle has returned to the UK fields froggie? There goes the UK flouting EU law again eh? Between this, torture and illegal wars its probably a good thing for all involved that the UK follows through on Brexit, no?)
I agree, Craig, though I would add the observation that heavy-handed police tactics are not the sole preserve of Russia. UK police are not averse to a spot of kettling (followed by arrests) of lawful protests.
No society is perfect, and at least Russia doesn’t punch great big holes in the map, then act all surprised when chaos ensues.