Evidence submitted by the British government in court today proves, beyond any doubt, that Boris Johnson has been point blank lying about the degree of certainty Porton Down scientists have about the Skripals being poisoned with a Russian “novichok” agent.
Yesterday in an interview with Deutsche Welle Boris Johnson claimed directly Porton Down had told him they positively identified the nerve agent as Russian:
You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?
Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …
So they have the samples …
They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt.
I knew and had published from my own whistleblowers that this is a lie. Until now I could not prove it. But today I can absolutely prove it, due to the judgement at the High Court case which gave permission for new blood samples to be taken from the Skripals for use by the OPCW. Justice Williams included in his judgement a summary of the evidence which tells us, directly for the first time, what Porton Down have actually said:
The Evidence
16. The evidence in support of the application is contained within the applications
themselves (in particular the Forms COP 3) and the witness statements.
17. I consider the following to be the relevant parts of the evidence. I shall identify the
witnesses only by their role and shall summarise the essential elements of their
evidence.
i) CC: Porton Down Chemical and Biological Analyst
Blood samples from Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal were analysed and the
findings indicated exposure to a nerve agent or related compound. The samples
tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent OR CLOSELY RELATED AGENT.
The emphasis is mine. This sworn Court evidence direct from Porton Down is utterly incompatible with what Boris Johnson has been saying. The truth is that Porton Down have not even positively identified this as a “Novichok”, as opposed to “a closely related agent”. Even if it were a “Novichok” that would not prove manufacture in Russia, and a “closely related agent” could be manufactured by literally scores of state and non-state actors.
This constitutes irrefutable evidence that the government have been straight out lying – to Parliament, to the EU, to NATO, to the United Nations, and above all to the people – about their degree of certainty of the origin of the attack. It might well be an attack originating in Russia, but there are indeed other possibilities and investigation is needed. As the government has sought to whip up jingoistic hysteria in advance of forthcoming local elections, the scale of the lie has daily increased.
On a sombre note, I am very much afraid the High Court evidence seems to indicate there is very little chance the Skripals will ever recover; one of the reasons the judge gave for his decision is that samples taken now will be better for analysis than samples taken post mortem.
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The state and corporate media now have evidence of the vast discrepancy between what May and Johnson are saying, and the truth about the Porton Down scientists’ position. I am afraid to say I expect this to make no difference whatsoever to the propaganda output of the BBC.
Recent interview about Novichok with Uglev by John Sparks of Sky News
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/russias-novichok-programme-exists-worked-scientist-tells-sky-023300610.html
Any comments?
Yep.
So the USA still sits on its vast cache of chemical and biological weapons.
Unlike Russia who has been signed off as disposing of its arsenal,the USA claims it needs another 5 years.
Meantime the USA has handed out these weapons almost willy nilly and evidence points to them continuing to do so – at least in the Middle East.
One of their grateful recipients being Saddam Hussein – of course.
I know with whom I feel safer – having weapons of any nature.
Russia.
They are interested in defence .
Unlike the west and the axis of pure evil NATO/USA/UK, proving itself vile self once again and this time playing with nuclear fire.
I’m still reading.
me too
The important points are some of the nerve agents were on the market, and used by Russian mobsters for killings, in the mid 1990’s, and that Mirzayanov had written the formulas in his openly available book, ‘State Secrets: An Insider’s Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program’: 22 Dec 2008 by Vil S Mirzayanov (available on Amazon!!!)
So there is NO reason to blame Russia, as this was all to do with the Soviet Union; when it broke up, the genie was out of the bottle, and any decent chemist with good facilities could rustle up a batch.
And May must have known this, but demonising Russia was far too important to be stymied by a few awkward facts.
In short, IF the poisoning occurred, there are umpteen State and criminal entities who could have been responsible.
It doesn’t sound like the 1995 case was a nerve agent
https://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://www.sovsekretno.ru/articles/id/5516/&prev=search
“Acute colic with fainting happened to him earlier – sick kidneys, and besides, chronic hypertension. Initially, the doctors suspected a major stroke, the patient was placed in the intensive care unit.
The next day, with similar symptoms, the secretary Kivelidi – 35-year-old Zara Ismailova was delivered to the hospital, but already the 1st Grada hospital: seizures similar to epileptic, loss of consciousness, circulatory disturbance. The woman died without regaining consciousness on the morning of August 3. The boss survived it for a day”
“Initially, toxicologists suggested that the lethal outcome came as a result of the ingress of salts of heavy metals into the body.”
I think Professor Rink might have been persuaded to say he sold them something, otherwise the prosecution didn’t have a case. It would explain why he never went to prison
” Investigators detained Vladimir Khutsishvili for 30 days, but could not prove his involvement in the poisoning and released him from custody. But in December 1999, the investigators managed to get out on a man who admitted that he had sold poison to Mr. Khutsishvili. Upon learning of this, suspect Khutsishvili disappeared abroad.”
What a mess Russia is.
Britains dirty little secret and the fallout .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6aL43nYDw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18ApUJJ8Hmc
Brilliant catch Billy,
These chemists who worked on the program are Dr. Mengele type war criminals, what dangerous and nasty shit they synthesized. Bless Mirzayanov what a brave man. I hope that the hit on the Skripals was a Kremlin hit then at least we know this terrifying stuff is under the control of a state and not in the hand of gangs or terrorists. It took 2 decades of work by some of the best chemists in the world to turn it into a weapon so we can rule out any other state other than Russia.
Thanks, but I’m nor sure about your conclusion, I will post why in a minute further down
Tidying up some newspapers, came across a lengthy interview about Skripal affair by veteran journalist Andrew Billen with former GRU agent Boris Volordarsky – published in the Times colour supplement of 24 march. Behind paywall. Worth a read if you can get hold of a copy.
Volordarsky says in the interview that the Russians have been developing chemical weapons including nerve agents at CERS (French acronym for The Scientific Studies and Research Centre) in Syria. In December he says, it was bombed by the Israelis acting on British and American Intelligence. He says the Salisbury incident was to show the west that “we know who did it and we are still here.”
Russians make a living doing this and when MI6 gets sick of them they have a habit of dying in rather unpleasant ways.
Its a lucrative career for Russians exiles, but often a short one
Excellent analysis, by Dmitry Orlov.
“Killing Diplomacy”
http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2018/03/killing-diplomacy.html
Extract
“… And now, at the end of this long process of degeneration and decay, we have in the person of the Foreign Minister a clown by the name of Boris Johnson. His equally incompetent boss Theresa May recently saw it fit to very loudly and publicly violate the terms of the Chemical Weapons Convention to which the UK is a signatory.
To recap, Theresa May claimed that a certain Russian-cum-British spy living in the UK was killed using a nerve agent made in Russia, and gave Russia 24 hours to explain this situation to her satisfaction. Russia is likewise a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC), and had destroyed all 39,967 metric tons of its chemical weapons by September 27, 2017. On that occasion, The Director-General of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), Ambassador Ahmet Üzümcü, stated: “The completion of the verified destruction of Russia’s chemical weapons programme is a major milestone in the achievement of the goals of the Chemical Weapons Convention. I congratulate Russia and I commend all of their experts who were involved for their professionalism and dedication.” The US is yet to destroy its stockpiles, preferring to squander trillions on useless ballistic defense systems instead of living up to its obligations under the Chemical Weapons Convention.
Here is precisely what Theresa May did wrong. Under the terms of the CWC, the UK was obligated to provide Russia with a sample of the nerve agent used, along with all related evidence uncovered in the course of the investigation. After that, the treaty gives Russia 10 days to respond. Instead, May provided no evidence, and gave Russia 24 hours to respond. When Russia formally requested to see the evidence, this request was refused. We can only guess at why she refused, but one reasonable supposition is that there is no evidence, because:
• May claimed that the nerve agent was Novichok, developed in the USSR. In order to identify it, the UK experts had to have had a sample of it. Since neither the USSR, nor Russia, have ever been known to export it, we should assume that it was synthesized within the UK. The formula and the list of precursors are in the public domain, published by the scientist who developed Novichok, who has since moved to the US. Thus, British scientists working at Porton Down could have synthesized it themselves. In any case, it is not possible to determine in what country a given sample of the substance was synthesized, and the claim that it came from Russia is not provable.
• It was claimed that the victims—Mr. Skripal and his daugher—were poisoned with Novichok while at a restaurant. Yet how could this have been done? The agent in question is so powerful that a liter of it released into the atmosphere over London would kill most of its population. Breaking a vial of it open over a plate of food would kill the murderer along with everyone inside the restaurant. Anything it touched would be stained yellow, and many of those in the vicinity would have complained of a very unusual, acrid smell. Those poisoned would be instantaneously paralyzed and dead within minutes, not strolling over to a park bench where they were found. The entire town would have been evacuated, and the restaurant would have to be encased in a concrete sarcophagus by workers in space suits and destroyed with high heat. None of this has happened.
• In view of the above, it seems unlikely that any of what has been described in the UK media and by May’s government has actually taken place. An alternative assumption, and one we should be ready to fully test, is that all of this is a work of fiction. No pictures of the two victims have been provided. One of them—Skripal’s daughter—is a citizen of the Russian Federation, and yet the British have refused to provide consular access to her. And now it has emerged that the entire scenario, including the Novichok nerve gas, was cribbed from a US/UK television drama “Strike Back.” If so, this was certainly efficient; why invent when you can simply plagiarize.
Tony,
That is a jolly good analyses. This is the inherent problem – it is just so much easier to tell porkies so long as one is not found out, if telling porkies is not actually illegal, when any intent to deceive must be able to be proven which is almost impossible to do. It is however immoral.
1. May claimed it was developed by Russia. Claims are emerging that chemical weapons have been developed for some time by Russian scientists at a lab in Syria.
2.Some experts claim that it is possible to tell from an analysis of the “micro-components” of the agent, at a very low level, where it was made.
2. The idea that the Skripals were poisoned at the restaurant was discounted very early on. I read an interview with one of the chefs (early on before Mi6 got to everyone) saying that the food is taken direct from the kitchen to the table. For someone to have tampered with it on the way would have been tricky and risky. In any case there have been lots of other suggestions since then as to how it was administered. (see earlier posts here).
2. Those accounts we have of Russians who have accidentally ingested it or been poisoned with it, would seem to indicate that depending on the type, and how it is administered, it may not be immediately fatal. And sometimes not at all although leaving severe effects.
I found a very interesting article written by a Dutch expert which goes into some amazing and yet unheard of detail regarding the politics surrounding Novichoks, here is an extract:
DO IT YOURSELF: PORTON DOWN
It is ‘highly likely’ that the novichok compound with which double agent Skripal was poisoned is from Russia, Theresa May has said. That is right: it is likely. But it is not certain. It can be concluded from the fact that the British laboratory in Porton Down, which is known to conduct its own research into nerve agents, was so quick to find out that a novichok was used, that Porton Down also had novichok in stock – or used to have. The pure substance is needed to be able to calibrate the analysis equipment.
Probably all major laboratories that conduct research on poison gas, such as ‘Porton Down’ in England, Edgewood in the US and the Dutch TNO, have already synthesized novichoks a long time ago.
„That is simply their business,” says an initiate. „The properties of all potential toxins are investigated.” A chemist like Julian Perry Robinson assumes this. „For years, it was only about two things: novichoks and peptides”, he said in an interview with this newspaper in 2014. In February 2006, the then chairman of the scientific advisory board of the OPCW, the Czech Jiri Matousek, said it plainly: in Edgewood, novichoks are being developed.
It appears from ‘secret’ classified telegrams (WikiLeaks: Cablegate) that the Americans have made sure that he would not dare to say that again.
(cable links here: https://search.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06PRAGUE319_a.html and here: https://search.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE32931_a.html noticed it is signed by CLINTON!)
Billy if it is like sarin and its a binary weapon, you can just mix the two precursors and A-234 will automatically form. For sarin you just mix methylphosphonyl difluoride and isopropyl alcohol for a few seconds and you have your agent
I am not going to name the two precursors for A-234 because people get a bit tetchy when you do, but study the structure and it is easy to work out. One of them is quite common, the other a number of chemical firms have in their catalogues, albeit no-one has it sitting on their shelves.
So far I have found Aurora Fine Chemicals, Labseeker, AKos, AOKChem and Angenechem all listing it. Only Labseeker offers a price on the rare precursor of 3300 dollars for 5 grams, the common precursor will cost another 100 dollars. So for less than 3500 dollars you can be the proud owner of around 10 grams of A-234.
Here is the article, a truly fascinating read, which raises many questions
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/03/21/unknown-newcomer-novichok-was-long-known-a1596490
Yes these Novichok agents were well discussed on Mad scientists forums as far back as 2004 and most likely further back.
Screaming at the screen has me vowing not to tune in to mainstream news and current affairs programmes. Self-opinionated and unprofessional. No hint at intelligent, investigative journalism or in questioning government agenda. Always feel better upon reading your analysis – thanks.
Poppy,
RT is quite good for professional, intelligent and investigate journalism.
Putting aside all the geopolitical reasons for instigating a conflict with Russia.Could this have a UK local element to it and the Tory heartlands. The Tory heartlands are some of the most vociferous opponents to fracking in their postcodes. The Tories have known links to Centrica who already have UK fracking licenses. Centrica have closed their offshore gas storage plant which was about 70% of UK gas storage capacity. Will the Tory gov’t push fracking licenses on their Tory heartlands under the guise of we have no choice because can’t buy gas from Russia (because of new sanctions?)and we won’t be able to keep the light’s on in the coming winter.
@Stephen, “Putting aside all the geopolitical reasons for instigating a conflict with Russia” ???
Turkey invades Syria with Free Syrian Army mercenaries, under a Turkish flag.
This FSA mercenary force comprises mainly ex Al Qaeda, and Islamic State fighters. (GO search engine)
Turkey is the second biggest military force in NATO.
Russian involvement in Syria is a thorn in the backside of every government working for regime change in Syria.
…….I don’t think that Tory strategy in their heartlands is higher up the government agenda. Just saying…_
I am not saying there isn’t a bigger agenda at play. I am only theorizing that one part of the picture closer to home may have been overlooked. The timing of the Centrica action on the gas storage is intereating considering it significantly reduces our nation’s energy security at a time when winter weather is becoming more unpredictable for long term forecasters. I guess we will find out either way by winter.
Assuming that the Russians were involved, they would be genuinely taken aback by the ferocity of the UK’s reaction, given that are supposed to have ‘form’ in these matters. This has all the hallmarks of a ‘Reichstag Fire’ incident that the Tories are milking for all it is worth.
“Under the guise of we have no choice because can’t buy gas from Russia”
I doubt it as less than 15% of our gas comes from Russia. The government claims the figure is more like 1%.
“But it was extraordinary as well because it went on for such an astonishing length of time. Twenty three years that made it the longest running spy case in the entire history of the Cold War. Unusual as well because one of the things that Cassidy gave to the Russians. Was a deliberately gave. With the approval of the U.S. government. Was a formula for nerve gas. Which was designed to mislead. The Soviets. A very deadly formula. And in addition to that. The two F.B.I. agents were killed in this case. And the true purpose of their mission. Was covered up and until now.”
Read the Transcript or watch the video interview
https://www.c-span.org/video/?156370-1/cassidys-run-secret-spy-war-nerve-gas&start=164
Those of us poor six-and-five-eighths dependent for knowledge on outside sources will be totally dependent on the reliability of the OPCW to produce an honest report.
Previous form in Syria and Professor Postol’s findings from MIT do not inspire confidence.
Wiki has updated its A234 listing
“Russian ambassador to the UK, Alexander Yakovenko, claimed to have been informed by British authorities that A-234 had been identified as the agent used in the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-234_(nerve_agent)
For those would be British Jihadists / Mindless Murderers / Lunatics that can re-work the reaction please say a big thank you to Mrs May’s government for making this information widely available.
If Mrs May had told the truth (the specific poison is not known) then the A 234 recipe / manufacturing method would not be widely available or even known about.
Mrs May and her stupid government, stupid civil servants and stupid opposition parties have put the national security and public health of this country at extreme serious risk.
If she wanted to big the story up she could have said this has got the hallmark of Russia all over it and they have form in that department.
But no she had to mention Novichok. Now it won’t be safe to put your hands on a supermarket trolley without fear that it has been treated with A 234.
And if an outbreak of copy cat murders breaks out, who is she going to blame? Putin? Good luck with that!
Thank goodness someone is prepared to do what should have been done in the first place , get to the truth. The government are going to run out of scape goats at this rate. First it was EU , then Gina Miller, the Judges or enemies of the people, then Jeremy Corbyn, remainders , oh Grenfell tower people wanting answers nearly reached scape goat status. Boris is a compulsive liar, the buss, the leave campaign, now let’s pin the blame the Russians.
Unless Putin is a monster on the level of Vlad Dracula, it is perplexing why he would have the daughter killed along with her father. These men are professionals, they have a code by which they live. Killing a family member along with the ‘traitor’, went out of style in the Soviet Union with the deaths of Stalin and Beria. Putin has daughters of his own; he has to know that there are limits one cannot cross, without falling afoul of members of his class. For this reason I have given little credence to the idea that Putin himself had ordered a hit.
There of course are hypothethic reasons, supporting the idea that Russians were killing with neurotoxin. Brits and CIA should be taken into account, their engagement pobability is equal to that of Russians.
I see these possible reasons for the attack on Russian officer and british spy Skripal: 1. Vengeance 2. Disabling to leave the country 3. Disrupting Russian elections 4. An excuse for agression. We can’t trust to anybody. The most beautiful lier seems to be Boris J.
Concurring posts: “…not a Russian calling card…like Polonium…” http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/03/08/a-poisoning-in-england-but-which-poison
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/17/pers-m17.html
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/local-news/what-porton-down-9-questions-1359636
http://intsse.com/wswspdf/en/articles/2018/03/17/pers-m17.pdf
1. I find it highly unlikely that the two people would succumb at exactly the same time to an externally (and therefore inconsistently) applied agent. Assuming that the two of them were actually in some kind of distressed state, I’d lean towards an attack on the park bench with a fast-acting incapacitant, or, less probably, a spiked drink or food back in the restaurant.
2. The 4-hour period when their mobile telephones were allegedly switched off should not be accepted as fact. It is equally possible that the authorities don’t want to reveal where they went.
3. Mary Paul is putting forward the suggestion that “judging from the way other countries have expelled Russians there is clearly some high level intelligence being shared which is not being made public”. The “they must know something that we don’t” line of thinking is a dangerous path to take. It is a misconceived to believe that govenments act in a moral way. Instead, their decisions are amoral, and will be based on an assessment of what is the most advantageous approach to take, even if it is (as is likely in this case) immoral and duplicitous.
Mobiles being turned off do not mean they are off and can’t be located by security services. I imagine the they can even be tracked if the battery is removed because there is something in them that retains memory. The hypothesis that the security services aren’t going to let us know where they were is the most likely.
For that to be possible there’d have to be “something in them”, some kind of auxiliary battery, to keep the transmitter powered up and working.
Has anyone ever taken a mobile apart and found such a device or indeed proved that they keep transmitting with the battery removed (easy enough to do with the right kit)?
I guess thats what the “Faraday ” bag is all about
http://faradaybag.com/
@ Stephen March 27, 2018 at 20:13
When mobiles are switched off, they can still be used by the PTB as transmitters of any sounds around them they can pick up.
But if the battery is removed, I don’t know, and doubt it.
Home lines ‘on the hook’ can also be used by the PTB to listen in to anything in the phones’ range (they could do that in 1959!!).
Craig refers to the capacity of the PTB being able to ‘listen in’ to mobiles that were ostensibly switched off, in his excellent book, ‘Murder in Samarkand’.
It is unlikely that Britain has given some kind of evidence of value to EU countries. Had that been the case, all EU countries would support them. Which is not the case.
They interviewed a member of the serving staff at the restaurant shortly after it happened and they said it was very unlikely it was put in the food because there were little opportunity to do so, it went straight from kitchen to table and if it was tampered with at the table, they would surely have seen that.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/27/russia-novichok-europe-brexit-britain-eu
I made some comments on this article, just questioning the narrative, all comments were deleted and I am now pre moderated!
The Guardian obviously does not want any dissenting voices that express any views other than those of the prescribed narrative.
What is even more interesting is that it does not state that the comments were deleted as they usually do. Moreover some comments that were pretty innocuous were also deleted. Should I worry?
Thank godness there are still safe havens where you can express your views without being silenced.
A good way of getting around the moderators on these papers is to start with a small comment without making outright accusations and just reply to your own comment with a little more of your comment on each reply. The moderators are quite lazy at times. Yahoo is susceptible to this technique.
@ SA March 27, 2018 at 20:39
The Guardian has turned into absolute shite – they rarely allow comments on our kind of controversial subjects, and when they do, they leave the Comments section open for an extremely short time (when most folk are asleep). I don’t like saying that – I used to swear by the Guardian, it used to be good – I used to read it four/five times a week.
From your comment it appears they also massively over-moderate.
But all is not lost – the Independent (which I think is run by the Guardian) has an excellent comment section, often open, and without draconian moderation. So, forget the Grauniad, just check out and comment on the Guardian (the Telegraph isn’t too bad either for moderation).
Funnily enough I found the daily mail to have a fairly open comment section. You only have to verify with an email before you can comment. I dumped my theory on how May will screw the Tory heartland before this winter by opening it all up for fracking by Centrica.
Hayley Dixon at the Telegraph is a lazy hack and Francesca Elba is a US state dep’t shill funded the a non profit which is funded by the N.E.D.
Is this type of attack the next stage in false-flag events? They realize how difficult it is to present crisis actors in staged videos and make it look real. Maybe they’ve now decided to do away with putting together phony footage which can be picked apart, so next we have unseen victims, and in this case one questionable video, and no crisis actors to cock it all up. Just the media saying it really did happen.
That also means a shift away from evidence-based prosecution and a shift towards accusation-based reaction where they present no evidence to be debunked. It’s a fundamental legal shift, and while this could limit the possibilities for false-flags out in the wider world, such an approach which targets sensitive sites where few of us go (“The Russians can get in, though!”) is potentially huge. Nuclear plants, military bases, any number “attacked”, no victims known, no videos and no amateur ham to screw up that scene. Dictatorship to follow.
@ Michael McNulty March 27, 2018 at 20:52
Yes, we are living in dangerous times:
‘What Happened To The West I Was Born In?!’:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49078.htm
When the Saker gets worried, it’s time to check one’s priorities.
Only if you take his anti-west ramblings seriously.
For the same story, but a different century, see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhVaSWYcdyQ&feature=youtu.be
1 Min 22 Sec of Seriousness 🙂
One of the stories dredged up by the MSM is a supposed video of Putin from 2010 threatening that ‘traitors will kick the bucket’. Here is an assessment of what has really been said:
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/40900/did-putin-threaten-to-have-traitors-assassinated
BRITISH “BRIEFING DOCUMENT” LEAKED AND PUBLISHED:
https://www.kommersant.ru/docs/2018/UK_Briefing.pdf
This is the document used by UK diplomats to brief european counterparts.
This is the “evidence” offered:
“Military-grade Novichok nerve agent positively identified by experts at the UK’s Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, an OPCW-accredited and designated laboratory
• Novichok is a group of agents developed only by Russia and not declared under the CWC
• A violation of the fundamental prohibition on the use of chemical weapons (Art. 1 CWC)
• First offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since the Second World War
• We are without doubt that Russia is responsible. No country bar Russia has combined capability, intent and motive. There is no plausible alternative explanation
• As of Sunday 18 March, we count over thirty parallel lines of Russian disinformation”
Counting off the lies:
1) Novichok Not “positively identified” by PD, as seen in court decision;
2) Novichok Not developed “only” by Russia;
3) Chemical Not even identified directly as “chemical weapon” by PD;
4) Russia Not the “only” country to have “capability, intent and motive”: any country or non-state actor with a chem lab has “capability”, and a significant number have motive to undemine Russia, with US and UK at the top of the list;
5) “Russian disinformation” being of course these same “plausible alternative explanations” lack of which May bemoans.
And this was the crap fed to EU. RIP all theories of “secret intelligence”: this drivel was enough to make euros throw out Ruskie diplos in a hurry. Not about “evidence” at all; only politics.
The indictment of Russian activities contains half-truths and lies.
a) It was the Western interests that destabilised Ukraine, in favour of their own oligarchs. Admittedly Ukraine was not a great example of a constitutionally ordered country, but having torn up the constitution through a coup, with the help of snipers and Victoria Nuland’s – fwck the EU – money, it can hardly be expected that part of the Ukraine that clings to its ties to Russia was going to take things lying down. Since the constitution that held the Ukraine together no longer existed, no one is morally obliged to hold on to the fiction of the territorial integrity of the Ukraine
b) The Crimea was conquered from the Turks by Nicholas I. Kruschev attached it to the Ukraine, when the old Soviet Union was around. It belongs to Russia if for no other reason than its people being overwhelmingly Russian, prefer the Russian State. It also happens to host the Russian Black Sea Fleet.
c) While I go with the theory that a Russian origin BUK brought down MH17, the speed which the US and certain Europeans pinned it on the Russian state has all the hallmarks of a similar smear campaign way back in 1983 when KAL 007 was brought down. Then too, the Americans immediately pushed the line that the Soviets deliberately targeted a civilian since they were heartless beasts, rather than as it turned out a tragic mistake by the Soviet pilot, who suspected that it was a spy plane. The Ukranians and IATA did not close that airspace even though a number of Ukranian planes had already been shot down earlier, they bear some moral responsibility for the outcome. I find it strange that Malaysians were not sitting on the investigative panel, given that it was their plane – though of course they did cover themselves with glory over their handling of the missing MH370 case a few months earlier.
Here is an interesting report on US Pentagon programs at Porton Down. Details of US-UK cooperation at this facility have not been evident in the press. Nonetheless, this report, tries to fill the gap:
“The Pentagon has spent at least $70 million on military experiments involving tests with deadly viruses and chemical agents at Porton Down – the UK military laboratory near the city of Salisbury. The secretive biological and chemical research facility is located just 13 km from where on 4th March former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were found slumped on a bench following an alleged Novichok nerve agent poisoning.
nformation obtained from the US federal contracts registry reveals that the Pentagon’s Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) has funded a number of military projects performed at the UK Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL), or Porton Down, over the last decade. Among them: experimental respiratory infection of non-human primates (marmosets) with Anthrax, Ebola virus, Marburg virus, Venezuelan equine encephalitis virus, Western equine encephalitis virus, and Eastern equine encephalitis virus. The US Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA) has also funded experiments on animals which were exposed to chemical agents such as Sulfur Mustard and Phosgene gas. Phosgene gas was used as a chemical weapon during World War I where it was responsible for about 85 % of the 100,000 deaths caused by chemical weapons.
DTRA has also been granted full access to DSTL scientific and technical capabilities, and test data under a 2011 contract for the collaboration and exchange of scientific and technical capabilities with the UK Ministry of Defence…..”
https://southfront.org/salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-reveals-70-million-pentagon-program-porton/
It will be 4 weeks this week (Easter Sunday) that Russia conducted a Military Grade Chemical Weapon (Nerve Agent) Attack on the streets of Salisbury. The barbaric and unwarranted act attracted global condemnation and diplomatic reprisals from 23 countries horrified by the inhumane action directed towards Britain by Russia. Or so we are told.
So 4 weeks on what do we know?
Well it is probably easier to start with what we don’t know; Who did it? Why? What was the Chemical used? Where did the Chemical come from?
Which is surprising given the strength of words and actions taken against Russia. Russia offered immediate help in any way they could when the crisis erupted, their offer was rejected. When accused the Russians asked for evidence and a sample of the toxin, these requests were refused. Russia has asked for consular access to the victims, this was also refused. Britain has not attempted to bring family and close friends from Russia to Britain to be with the victims who may not have very long to live.
An international team of experts has come to investigate the incident however some of the team may have come from countries that have already found Russia guilty as charged and begun sanctions against them.
In a Court of Law the Standard of Proof required to Test the Evidence and deliver a Guilty Verdict is “Beyond Reasonable Doubt”. In the Salisbury Case No Evidence has been Tested, No Standard of Proof has been Applied.
We do know that a senior consultant at Salisbury A&E wrote to the Times and stated nobody in Salisbury had been affected by a Nerve Agent, the consultant (Dr Stephen Davies) has not been heard of since and no one form the Hospital, Police or Government has retracted or corrected the Consultants Statement. The media have gone dumb on this bombshell dropped by the doctor.
There has been no explanation as to why it was a Detective Sergeant that was first on the scene when it was first thought that the two people on the bench were suffering from the effects of alcohol or drugs. The Detective was contaminated by a poison but it is not known where he became contaminated or if the poison that he came in to contact with was the same that harmed the other two victims. It is known he was treated with the correct antidote, recovering well enough to be discharged from hospital.
The government has issued statements that the Toxin is a Weaponised Military Grade Nerve Agent from a group of Killer Nerve Agents called Novichoks Developed by Russia but that the public should not be alarmed, if a member of the public thinks they may have been contaminated they should cleanse the affected area with baby wipes and put their clothes through a normal laundry cycle.
The people of Salisbury, Britain and the World have not been told the truth about the Salisbury incident but the misleading and absent information has led to extremely serious political repercussions around the world. It is not unimaginable, depending on Putin’s response, that the situation could escalate into war or worse a nuclear world war.
The people of Salisbury and the planet deserve the truth.
Charles
Thanks for an excellent summary. Two things worth emphasising: the advice given to clean your mobile phones with baby wipes which was inconsistent with the suspicion of the presence of a deadly agent and then the later advice about handing over clothes to be disposed of and also increasing rumours that ‘up to 130 people’ could have been affected’ with similar vague language to what his been used throughout. The second point is the missing surveillance and linked to that the absence of a public warning to describe any suspect and the absence of even talk of suspicion of someone the police would like to find, other than of course Vladimir Vladimirovich.
The other thing worth mentioning is that the language used by the politicians in this case has been appalling. This is not international deplonacy it is gauding and provocation.
This is also all to be linked with what is happening in Syria. The majority of the East Ghouta pocket has been liberated except for the town of Douma. Reconciliation agreements have been reached with other towns and the rebels have agreed to be transported to Idlib. Jaysh al Islam is refusing to surrender Douma despite overwhelming odds and Niki Haley is again upping the rhetoric about Ghouta being a travesty, whilst the mainstream media are ignoring the scenes of jubilation that the liberated citizens have shown. I wonder what big secrets are hidden in Douma? I don’t know whether Douma will be allowed to be liberated without serious aggressive action by one of the many invaders to avoid this and destroy the evidence of serious collusion with the rebels.
Tit is also clear to me that the talk has now shifted from details about this incident to emphasis on ‘isolating Russia ‘ which is really the purpose of this episode.
Good round up of story so far by Matt Frei on Despatches on Channel 4. Of course it leaves out some stuff but it’s not bad within the time constraints. You can watch it on All 4 (channel 4 catch-up).
This round up includes a story that is tragedy for all Russians. This guy Alexei Navalny hi is exploding the situation. Somehow the western media managed to film him and his entourage screaming Russian without Putin. It’s disgusting. They do not protest against Putin, they protest against the corrupt officials and want answer. And unlike in some other countries, they will receive long prison sentences. That is, those who are responsible for this tragedy.
And not surprising that the video about the protest is from “здесь и сейчас” which is BBC. It’s disgusting.
The Old Witch is a shameless liar as his liar lackeyBoris Johnson too! No evidence, only the pure LIES !!
Suomen johtoporukka, samoin kuin ääliöt Euroopassa ja USA:ssa ovat niin saatanan tyhmiä, että lähtevät mukaan Englannin sisäpolitiikan tarpeisiin tehtyyn törkeään juoneen! Tämänhän piti alunalkaen olla vain Toryn vaalimainos, ja nyt se sotkee koko maailman politiikkaa!
The leadership of Finland, as well as the whistles in Europe and the USA, are so stupid that they are leaving for the brutal plot of England’s internal politics! This is that it was a matter of being just a Tory election advertisement and now it’s messing around the world’s politics!
Here is a summary of certain evidence that has emerged through investigations:
1. That Novichok type nerve agents were developed at Edgewood in the USA and any mention of it (or the book “State Secrets”) was censored as far as possible by the UK and USA via Cablegate/Wikileaks:
https://search.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06PRAGUE319_a.html
https://search.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE32931_a.html
2. We have evidence that the USA had a deception program running for 24 years or more involving Cassady to convince the USSR that the USA had developed a new nerve agent and waste resources on trying to develop it via Cassidy’s Run: The Secret Spy War Over Nerve Gas By David Wise (searchable on Google Books).
https://www.c-span.org/video/?156370-1/cassidys-run-secret-spy-war-nerve-gas&start=164
3. We have evidence via Uglev, Rink and others that the USSR succeeded in developing a whole family of nerve agents (100 plus compounds) based on the original disinformation campaign, each one with different toxicity. via War of Nerves. Chemical Warfare from World War I to Al-Qaeda by Jonathan B. Tucker (Published 2006) https://archive.org/details/B-001-000-016
4. We have further evidence that these compounds were used to murder a banker in 1995 and were sold by Rink to criminal gangs after the break up of the USSR.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/03/20/one-of-the-russian-inventors-of-novichok-says-russia-isn-t-to-blame-also-he-may-have-sold-poisons-from-his-garage-in-the-1990s
5. It is believed that Rink continued to work on this program as he received a one year suspended sentence and then disappeared from the public eye until recently he emerged ‘echoing” Kremlin arguments.
https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/758071 (Chrome Right Click, translate to English)
6. We have allegations from two individuals (Victoria and Tamara) in Russia that Julia Skripal’s boyfriend worked for Russian Intelligence in some capacity and that his mother “high up in the structure” was intent on stopping their forthcoming marriage and paid a criminal gang of ex-KGB officers to poison her.by tampering with some item in her suitcase:
“Yulia Skripal’s cousin Victoria Skripal told Russian television she believed the attack was revenge against Yulia by a vengeful prospective mother-in-law. Victoria Skripal said Yulia, 33, had argued with her unnamed boyfriend’s mother after the boyfriend had announced to his family they wanted to have children,The Skripals believe the prospective mother-in-law, who is a highly ranked Russian security agent, was angry that her son was serious about Yulia because she was the daughter of a double agent who had betrayed scores of Russian agents. Victoria, 45, from Yaroslavl, told the Mash Telegram TV channel: “My opinion is that it was done not against Uncle Sergei, but against his daughter. “The mother didn’t accept Yulia and thought that, if she was a traitor’s daughter, then she herself would betray her country.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/poisoned-russians-cousin-claims-yulia-skripal-was-target-of-vengeful-potential-motherinlaw/news-story/2018fb0f6d848bf19704813421160f71
https://meaww.com/read/news/sergei-skripals-niece-claims-that-his-daughter-was-the-real-target-of-the-nerve-agent-attack
7. This suitcase theory was also initially alleged by “intelligence sources” via the Telegraph 14 days ago
Nerve toxin used on ex-spy ‘was planted in daughter’s suitcase’
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/nerve-toxin-used-on-ex-spy-was-planted-in-daughter-s-suitcase-20180316-p4z4nn.html
8. We now have the name of the boyfriend and photographs of him with Julia despite her previous attempts to delete all photographs of him form her social media profiles. (Denis Dementyev, who works at Nike in Moscow), Photographs of him taken with Julia Skripal can be seen here: http://valet.ru/user/95338/
Conjecture:
9. Given the widespread dispersal of the nerve agent in several different locations in Salisbury (BMW, Graveyard, Door, House, Suitcase, Zizzis, Pub, etc) and the delayed reaction time of the Skripals to the agent, tt is believed that an item of clothing was involved as the carrier which had been contaminated with a generally undetectable nerve agent (without specialist equipment)
10. We are awaiting confirmation of his parents current positions in the Russian government and evidence of possible links between his mother and Leonard Rink and a criminal gang of ex-KGB officers
Call me Sherlock effing Poirot, but I think I’ve nearly cracked this case, mateys!
I can give an interesting fact. This don’t mean anything but, Julia has visit her vKontakt profile, (Russian Facebook), three day after she was poisoned. Maybe the police went thru her phone or maybe she did.
https://vk.com/y.skripal
interesting…..
@GK Thanks, do you have any information on the boyfriend, Denis Dementyev’s Parents? https://vk.com/dementyevdenis
The now apparently abandoned theory of the contaminated suitcase was never plausible since it would not have resulted in two people being affected at exactly the same time, ie while sitting on a park bench. The timing and dose received by each person would have differed and they would have succumbed at differing times.
That leads me to point 9 of your theory: What is this mysterious item of clothing that is supposed to have contaminated both individuals so that they both became incapacitated *at the same time*? Which individual wore it and why did the alleged contaminant equally affect the other person who didn’t wear it and who no doubt has different physical characteristics, such as age, weight and body mass? These are glaring inconsistencies when considering any theory of prior, delayed-reaction contamination. We can reasonably conclude that it didn’t happen that way.
The theory about the item of clothing is just conjecture 😉 because otherwise I don’t see how the nerve agent was detected in several locations. I’m trying to follow the great British tradition of making the facts fit the (suit) case until we have more details.
The other possibility is that they opened a present (chocolates), a cigar (was Skripal an occasional smoker?), a wee bag of coke (did they indulge?), a slug of vodka, or it’s all a set up and they had toxic shellfish poisoning from the angry chef’s gift on a plate (but then that would discount the allegations of Skripal’s family in Russia about the mother-in-law) and contradict the alleged dispersal of the nerve agent in many different locations.
What’s your Theory then?
The most straightforward explanation for two people of different ages, weight and BMI to become incapacitated at the same time on a park bench is for them to have been contaminated either very soon before sitting down or while they were sitting down. Ergo, the “reports” of contamination occurring in multiple locations elsewhere in Salisbury are either false or the, less likely, the evidence was planted.
One then has to ask what was it that the authorities are actually supposed to have found in and around Salisbury, since the chemical traces would not have been broken down by the metabolic changes that occur once inside the body. Instead, the chemical would have degraded according to its half-life in the atmosphere and would have retained a portion of its original chemical signature.
All these stories of contaminated sites, suitcases, air conditioning, etc are simply chaff being thrown up in an attempt to muddy the waters. I suggest that the amount of chaff being thrown around is directly related to the importance of obscuring the true facts from the British people and the wider world.
@Bayleaf
“Ergo, the “reports” of contamination occurring in multiple locations elsewhere in Salisbury are either false or the, less likely, the evidence was planted.”
You are making a big claim there, do you have any evidence for this theory?
Can you think of any other explanation that would fit as many of the “facts” as possible?
@Billy Bostickson
I seem to be unable to reply directly to you.
“You are making a big claim there, do you have any evidence for this theory?”
It is not a theory; it is a logical consequence of concluding that any chemical agent would have to be administered close to the park in order for both victims to have been affected at the same time.
We only have the word of the authorities that there was contamination in multiple locations, so far removed from being independent evidence.
I note that some other people in this thread are coming around to the view that any poison would have had to be administered in or close to the park. There are logical conclusions to be drawn from such a conclusion that destroy the official narrative.
Suppose your claim is true, that does not preclude that the Skripals opened a package on the park bench (The Times reported initially that a package was taken a way for analysis) and were exposed to the nerve agent.
The package could have been inside Julia’s handbag and equally possibly it could have been inside her suitcase arriving from Moscow the day before.
Would you agree?
@Billy Bostickson
“Suppose your claim is true, that does not preclude that the Skripals opened a package on the park bench (The Times reported initially that a package was taken a way for analysis) and were exposed to the nerve agent.
The package could have been inside Julia’s handbag and equally possibly it could have been inside her suitcase arriving from Moscow the day before.”
There is no evidence to support that theory, which is just unhelpful conjecture.
However, if we accept the idea that any poisoning must have occurred in or near the park, we must accept that the report of multiple sites being contaminated is a lie.
Today sources from the police are apparently saying they “believe” they “may” have been contaminated by the poison being applied to the front door… whether that’s the door itself was smeared, the door-handle, or the key lock, who knows but it would be strange a) that they both touched the same part of the door that was contaminated, and b)that a military grade nerve agent only kicked in several hours later allowing them to drive around, have a drink at the pub and a meal at the restaurant. It could happen but it still seems a bit too hit and miss for a serious and targeted assassination attempt.
This is a sort of fence sitting article, which however reinforces much of the research mentioned in this comments section. The new info is the interview with former senior official at the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) from 1993 to 2006, Dr Ralf Trapp:
Former OPCW official: no conclusive proof of Russian complicity in Salisbury attack
But Russia’s denial of past ‘Novichok’ programmes is misleading
By Nafeez Ahmed
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/former-opcw-official-no-conclusive-proof-of-russian-complicity-in-salisbury-attack-1ae3749ba38e
– Nerve agent found in Salisbury does not conclusively prove Russian complicity
– Russia’s denial of a Novichok programme is true but misleading?—?a secret nerve agent programme to create Novichok-type agents was run under a different name
– Western states have extensively researched and synthesized the Novichok class of agents
– Novichok was most recently synthesized by Iran, details of which were provided to the OPCW
– Russian Novichok stockpiles were destroyed in the 1990s, but it is theoretically possible that some capability still exists, though no evidence for this is available
Thanks!
I think this denial is just semantics. The Russians deny having a Novichok program which is true – they called Foliant