Boris Johnson A Categorical Liar 1859

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Evidence submitted by the British government in court today proves, beyond any doubt, that Boris Johnson has been point blank lying about the degree of certainty Porton Down scientists have about the Skripals being poisoned with a Russian “novichok” agent.

Yesterday in an interview with Deutsche Welle Boris Johnson claimed directly Porton Down had told him they positively identified the nerve agent as Russian:

You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?

Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …

So they have the samples …

They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt.

I knew and had published from my own whistleblowers that this is a lie. Until now I could not prove it. But today I can absolutely prove it, due to the judgement at the High Court case which gave permission for new blood samples to be taken from the Skripals for use by the OPCW. Justice Williams included in his judgement a summary of the evidence which tells us, directly for the first time, what Porton Down have actually said:

The Evidence
16. The evidence in support of the application is contained within the applications
themselves (in particular the Forms COP 3) and the witness statements.
17. I consider the following to be the relevant parts of the evidence. I shall identify the
witnesses only by their role and shall summarise the essential elements of their
evidence.
i) CC: Porton Down Chemical and Biological Analyst
Blood samples from Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal were analysed and the
findings indicated exposure to a nerve agent or related compound. The samples
tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent OR CLOSELY RELATED AGENT.

The emphasis is mine. This sworn Court evidence direct from Porton Down is utterly incompatible with what Boris Johnson has been saying. The truth is that Porton Down have not even positively identified this as a “Novichok”, as opposed to “a closely related agent”. Even if it were a “Novichok” that would not prove manufacture in Russia, and a “closely related agent” could be manufactured by literally scores of state and non-state actors.

This constitutes irrefutable evidence that the government have been straight out lying – to Parliament, to the EU, to NATO, to the United Nations, and above all to the people – about their degree of certainty of the origin of the attack. It might well be an attack originating in Russia, but there are indeed other possibilities and investigation is needed. As the government has sought to whip up jingoistic hysteria in advance of forthcoming local elections, the scale of the lie has daily increased.

On a sombre note, I am very much afraid the High Court evidence seems to indicate there is very little chance the Skripals will ever recover; one of the reasons the judge gave for his decision is that samples taken now will be better for analysis than samples taken post mortem.

——————————————————-

This website remains under a massive DOS attack which has persisted for more than 24 hours now, but so far the defences are holding. Some strange form of “ghost banning” is also affecting both my twitter and Facebook feeds. So please

a) Feel free to repost, republish, translate or spread this article anywhere and anyway you can. All copyright is waived.
b) If you came here by Twitter, please retweet but also in addition create a new tweet yourself containing a link to this post (or to any other site on which you have placed the information)
c) If you came here by Facebook, again please share but also in addition create a new post yourself which contains the information and the link.

The state and corporate media now have evidence of the vast discrepancy between what May and Johnson are saying, and the truth about the Porton Down scientists’ position. I am afraid to say I expect this to make no difference whatsoever to the propaganda output of the BBC.

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1,859 thoughts on “Boris Johnson A Categorical Liar”

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  • Alistair MacDonald

    Is this not the same scenario as polonium 210 where the world or at least the western part of it were told it had to from Russia which is a provable lie any one with nuclear capability can produce it and is widely used in the textile industry, but as I see it the key to all these lies is the ownership and control of the fourth estate as a recent documentary by channel 4 titled rather subtlety called RUSSIAN SPY ASSASSINS ;THE SALISBURY ATTACK .By a true colossus of journalism MATT FREI . I doubt he is getting the 30000 dollars a day that Rachel Maddow gets but I have no doubt they share the same trough .Gone are the days when Channel 4 would make a documentary ,and come to the conclusion that it was a false flag operation as they did when they claimed that British and American intelligence were the likely killers of that poor woman god bless her W.P.C. Fletcher.

  • Albert A

    A frightening thought. What if May’s fulminations in parliament againsr Russia over Salibury were not primarily directed against Putin at all but against Corbyn, knowing that his intellectual integrity would compel him, in contrast to the leaders of ALL the other parties, to question the House’s frantic rush to join the bandwagon , and ask for calm consideration of ALL the evidence.?

    • Going Postal

      Seriously? ‘Jeremy Corbyn’ and ‘intellectual integrity’ in the same sentence?

      “Jeremy Corbyn left school with just two A-levels – both at E-grades.”

  • Billy Bostickson

    Chemical Weapons in Russia: History, Ecology, Politics
    [Khimicheskoye Oruzhiye V Rossii: Istoriya, Ekologiya, Politika ]
    by Doctor of Chemical Sciences Lev Aleksandrovich Fedorov Moscow
    Center of Ecological Policy of Russia
    1994 [27 July 1994]
    Third Generation Chemical Weapons

    The advent of third generation chemical weapons in the Soviet Union was a direct consequence not only of the Cold War, but also of attempts of the MCC to “keep itself alive.” These weapons embody dual advances in special chemistry: not only new types of TC [45], but also more effective means of combat use (binary weapons [46] and multiple warheads [47]).
    The development of new OTC that became the basis for third generation chemical weapons dates from 1973-1976 [48, 49]. This was followed by technological research, production of experimental lots and many years of combat tests of various munitions [29, 48- 50] that were completed in 1991-1992 [29]. As a whole, the “Foliant” program [51] yielded five promising OTC of a new type [48]. One of these (A-232, “novichok-5” [36]) turned out to be convenient for combat use in binary form (Soviet V-gas has also been made for use in binary form [43, 46, 48]). The concluding cycle of research within the scope of the “Foliant” target program [51] was conducted in fulfillment of Decree of the CPSU Central Committee and the USSR Council of Ministers No 131-24 dated 25 March 1983, and a special Decree of the CPSU Central Committee and the USSR Council of Ministers No 844-186 on research to develop binary weapons was promulgated on 6 October 1989 when perestroyka was at its height [52].
    The services of the MCC leaders in developing third generation chemical weapons were rewarded with prizes and other honors [36]:
    • “solution of special problems”–State Prize, 1978 (A. Ye. Gusakov, I. B. Yevstafyev, V. A. Romanchuk, L. S. Shevnitsyn et al.),
    • “Foliant” program–State Prize, 1981 (N. N. Kovalev, V. K. Pikalov, O. I. Stuzhuk, A. G. Shkuro et al.),
    • “solution of special problems”–State Prize, 1982 (A. M. Ivanov, Yu. I. Musiychuk, G. A. Patrushev, V. V. Pozdnev et al.),
    • binary weapons–Lenin Prize, 1991 (A. D. Kuntsevich, V. A. Petrunin et al.),
    • binary weapons–State Prize, 1991 (R. K. Balchenko, I. B. Yevstafyev, N. N. Kovalev, G. S. Leonov et al.).
    Data are not available about the combat characteristics of third generation chemical weapons. It is only known that the new chemical weapons are superior to American VX, and that they practically defy medical treatment [53]. Among their other features are relative simplicity of manufacture and accessibility of raw material [54].
    Developments of new TC of the third generation and technologies for producing them were concentrated in GSNIIOKhT and its Volsk affiliate [48, 49]. Two victims of these developments are known: former GSNIIOKhT employees A. N. Zheleznyakov and L. A. Lipasov [97].
    GSNIIOKhT and institutes and other organizations of the MCC in general maintained especially close contacts with academic science of the Soviet Union. In 1992, Western authors made this assessment of the wartime and post-war level of these contacts: “It can be assumed with certainty that academic scholars of the USSR have been enlisted in the development of new agents that are made by enterprises producing TC of paralytic nerve action… Although there is no doubt that the efforts of many scientists have been joined in this work, it would seem that six of them have been responsible for Soviet advances: V. M. Plets, A. Ye. Arbuzov, S. I. Volfkovich, M. I. Kabachnik, V. A. Kargin and I. L. Knunyants. The first four have done research relating to tabun” [11].
    A similar assessment resounded in the official Russian press in 1993: “Representatives of the science schools of academicians Zelinskiy, Knunyants, Fokin and Kabachnik have been working at the institute” [meaning GSNIIOKhT — L.F.] [40]. We might add a personage not included in this assessment, a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences and lieutenant-general of chemical forces, A. D. Kuntsevich, quoting his own self-appraisal: “I have managed to form and head up a large scientific and practical school that has achieved considerable results in the field of fundamental and applied problems relating to the reactivity of organophosphorus agents” [41].
    11. Krause, J., Mallory, C. K., “Chemical Weapons in Soviet
    Military Doctrine. Military and Historical Experience,
    1915-1991,” Boulder, Westview Press, 1992, 247 pp.
    40. KRASNAYA ZVEZDA, 16 June 1993.
    41. KRASNAYA ZVEZDA, 22 October 1993.
    45. KURANTY (Moscow), 10 October 1991.
    46. KURANTY (Moscow), 23 January 1993.
    47. SEGODNYA (Moscow), 13 January 1994.
    48. NOVOYE VREMYA (Moscow), No 6, 1993, pp 40-41.
    49. MOSKOVSKIYE NOVOSTI, No 5, 31 January 1993.
    50. NOVOYE VREMYA (Moscow), No 50, 1992, pp 46-49.
    51. BALTIMORE SUN, 18 October 1992.
    52. “Materials of Inquiry Against V. S. Mirzayanov,” 1993.
    53. MOSKOVSKIYE NOVOSTI, No 50, 8 December 1993.
    54. MOSKOVSKIYE NOVOSTI, No 44, 31 October 1993.
    97. SEGODNYA (Moscow), 16 October 1993.

    https://fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/cbw/jptac008_l94001.htm

  • SA

    BBC war mongering this morning Sarah montage egging the navy and raf spokesmen (yes they are men, we should call for gender equality amongst squadron leaders and rear admirals), into saying Russia is the threat and that’s is why we need more weapons than hospitals.
    How about a big drive for gender equality in the forces.

  • Frank

    My view: The Skripals were paralyzed/poisoned in the park. Watch the picture of the CCTV cam only yards away and minutes before they were found slumped on the bench. Based on this evidence there are some compelling conclusions.

    The UK Media provide the public with all the info it needs. I have to give it to them. When the people do not want to know the truth, it’s not the media that’s to blame.

  • Mary Paul

    Since watching the Matt Frei Despatches documentary on Channel4 last night, another thought occurs. The docu showed some footage of people describing how they saw the Skripals in the park. One young man said he was vomiting and she was lying on the ground and there was also an account that people were working on them.. In the reports about the original research scientist who invented Novichok type poisons and inhaled one, he did not due on the spot but he got outside the building and down the road before he collapsed. Let us suppose for a minute that the Skripals had a few minutes leeway, Sergei Skripal was a very experienced agent. Supposing he realised what was happening to them and had time to make an emergency call to his Mi6 contact before he collapsed. Maybe that accounts for why DS Bailey was sent to the scene – he was the nearest available reliable CID officer. Interesting too that the young man said Skripal was vomiting and people were attending to him. Yet we are told noone apart from DS Bailey has been affected. Maybe Skripal was able to pass on info which in turn affected Bailey’s movements afterwards.?

    Also regarding my other report of an interview by John Sparkes of Sky news with Vorodensky (sorry if that is wrong spelling, there is no edit button here to make corrections) – about the Russians working on chemical weapons at a science lab in Syria which the Israelis bombed in December. The Israelis have been bombing this lab regularly. Maybe we should look at the wording if official reports again. Do they refer to a nerve agent developed IN Russia or developed BY Russia?

    • Ivan

      I wont give the Israelis any credence. In the past they were bombing what they called Hizballah convoys, chemical weapon sites and nuclear facilities in Syria with some regularity, all in the name of imminent threats to the security of Israel. But when an F-16 was shot down, suddenly its all gone quite. Either what is happening in Syria is a threat to them and they have to take action regardless of the losses, or they were bullshitting all this time about the real extent of the threat from Syria. My money is on the latter, since they can no longer view the Syrians as a bombing range.

      • Mary Paul

        there are plenty of press reports they have been bombing this lab,unless they are all fake news.

  • Billy Bostickson

    It’s not a bad thing that Russia has weaponised “Novichok” or “Foliant” as a way to overcome NATO superiority in tactical nuclear weapon deployment in Europe. and avoid an expensive arms race.
    It might give NATO second thoughts about expanding itself so close to Russia;s borders and teach the Brits and Yanks some sorely needed lessons in polite behavior when dealing with equals instead of bullying weaker nations and murdering their leaders.
    Personally, I don’t believe Putin was behind this so-called “attack”,
    it seems to me a combination of British attempts to smoke out the Russian’s nerve agent warfare capacity and a possible murder/poison attempt by unknown (albeit likely Russians) actors which went wrong.

  • Ray

    Not sure how this managed to slip under the radar. Quote from The Jerusalem Post dated 2nd December 2017.

    ”On 6 April 2017 Russia issued an unequivocal statement. While reaffirming its support for the two-state solution and for East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state, Moscow declared: “At the same time, we must state that in this context we view West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.”
    This declaration, ground-breaking in itself, carries a corollary. Countries normally site their embassies in the capital city of the country with which they have established diplomatic relations. Is Putin politically in a position to take the statement to its logical conclusion?”

    Here is the link
    http://www.jpost.com/Blogs/A-Mid-East-Journal/Which-embassy-will-be-first-in-Jerusalem-the-Russian-or-the-American-515809

    See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGjVX-gEieM

  • Norfolk Eagle

    My own very personal view having followed the story from the start, is that it was probably an accident. Yulia brought the agent from Russia to give to her father on behalf of the British Secret Services. A good way to augment his pension. There was a leak on the Sunday morning and maybe both of them were unaware they had been infected. Initially nobody knew what had happened, it took a couple of days for this to become a major incident. The British decided to use it for domestic purposes, makes May look good and NATO thought it would be a good way to attack Russia. This is why May is so certain it is of Russian origin, it was a MI6 operation. How can Russia respond? They cannot admit it was theirs and stolen, they will have to wait and see how it unfolds.

    • Billy Bostickson

      Interesting theory, but why do you discount that it was placed in her luggage by the future mother-in-law?

      We have two people (one family and one friend) who claimed this for no obvious reason, so why throw it out of the window and implicate MI6 instead?

      Also,it doesn’t seem likely that any father would involve his daughter in smuggling nerve agents, even to top up a pension 😉

  • Sean Lamb

    If it were to go for a motive I think it probably has to do with the liberation of East Ghouta. East Ghouta was the site in 2013 where Bashar Al-Asad is supposed to have unleashed a massive sarin attach the night the Organization for the Promotion of Chemical Weapons checked into their Damascus hotel prior to traveling Aleppo the next day to do a site assessment on an alleged attack on Syrian government soldiers. The team never left Damascus.

    What I think frightened the UK and the USA was that the liberation of East Ghouta would free some of the residents from fear about speaking out of what happened that night. By getting their accusation in first, they hoped to discredit any evidence Russia might bring forward around the events of that night in 2013. This would explain the hysterical overreaction, particularly from the United States. I don’t think Porton Down actually produced the agent, nor do I think MI6 literally carried out the attack, but I do think MI6 helped both facilitate the attack and obfuscate the police investigation.

    In the words of Syrian UN Ambassador Bashar Jaafari: “They are liars. And they know that they are liars. And they know that we know that they are liars. Even so, they keep lying, and very loudly so.”

    I am not a fan of the Asad regime, I am not a fan of the May regime either. It is just a sad fact that we live in a period when the words of a Syrian ambassador are more likely to be factual than the UK Foreign Secretary.

    • Billy Bostickson

      Have you got any links to those claims about East Ghouta apart from the one on voltaire net?
      Certainly sounds like a possibility, but what evidence is there? Has a local whistleblower come forward?

      • Sean Lamb

        I don’t read voltaire.net, however it is an undisputed fact the OPCW team was in Damascus on the night of the attack, it is undisputed fact that they were there to check a claim that Russia had been investigating that sarin had been used in Aleppo.

        This is Carla Del Ponte on that attack, she has reiterated this position down the years
        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-22424188

        It is also an undisputed fact that the OPCW team did not proceed to Aleppo but stayed in Damascus to investigate the East Ghouta attack. I have read indications that months or even years later a team may have visited Aleppo but haven’t found precise details of it. It is also a fact that East Ghouta has been in the process of being liberated over the last few weeks.

        It is my speculation that the US and UK governments may be secretly concerned about what the newly freed residents might say about that night in 2013.

        You are doing great work in the hunt for Denis Dementyev parents, why spoil it?

  • Li Po

    Dear Boris Johnson, you definitely suffer from flatulence. God’s sake, warn people to avoid you. Your farts contain Novichok and are dangerous.

    • hetro

      John Delacour in this Sarum Hoax analysis points out how the story evolved, by examining its contradictions; a female doctor and DC Bailey were on the scene at the same time ambulances and first responders were on the scene. Did they not get in each others’ way? The doctor not affected; the detective very much affected although two contradictory reports for the same day just following his illness state he was very very ill and unconscious, then the other that he was sitting up talking and recovering. Also, with the statement from the doctor at the hospital, that no patients had been treated for nerve poison damage but for poisoning, Delacour also points out nobody is now considering fantynyl poisoning, as was first indicated. He also suggests that reports of Sergei and Yulia walking just prior to being poisoned likely points to a different couple.

      I hope not to ask ignorant questions already answered, and beg your tolerance if I do. What is entirely not clear to me is how the police officer could recover from being given an antidote whereas the Skripals continue to lie comatose. Were they poisoned by different amounts of the same toxic? By a different toxic? Were they not given the antidote? Further, on the silence of authorities in the position to know something, why is this? This thread some days back indicated the Salisbury Hospital staff are on required to be silent. Yesterday, again in this thread, a commenter said the same thing applies to Salisbury police–mouths shut.

      Mouths shut is another indication of running an intelligence operation toward a political end, the Skripals one of its tools. It seems to me very similar to the WMD ops of 03 and the chain of false flags since.

      • Meurig

        Litvinenkos’s father has gone on Russian national television hugging the suspects he initially thought were his son’s killers. He maintains the killers were hired by a Rsussian Oligarth (Berivovski). He also believes that his son was repeatedly poisoned in hospital.

  • Mary Paul

    Sky has an interview with Sergei Skripals next door neighbour who drove him to the airport to collect Yulia and had become friends with him. He says it is untrue that no one has tried to visit the Skripals or enquired after them. He says he has asked the police several times if he can have a discreet visit and been told categorically it is out of the question. This sounds to me like the Met we know and love. The public narrative is what they have chosen it to be, never mind the real facts.

  • Jeremy Walford

    So refreshing to find somebody who is clearly well informed and who has the integrity and courage to challenge the narrative of the tory regime on this charade. I used to follow the Guardian online, but gave up when they systematically deleted all comments that i made that did not fit their narrow agenda. I moved to the Independent online, but they have followed the same policy as the Guardian in the last couple of weeks. On Syria, the eu, Ukraine and especially the Skripal case all comments that question the government narrative, or that suggest any alternative view, are being deleted now. Very sad that there no longer seems to be a single genuinely free media outlet in the UK, so blogs like this one are priceless.

    • J q treloar

      I agree ,I feel disenfranchised and it’s quite frighting and defiantly depressing.

  • Sagittarius Rising

    ‘Fusion Doctrine’

    https://twitter.com/FalseAllegator/status/967509411018272768

    As a means to launch a counter-propaganda war against the Russians who quite rightly are indignant for having been blamed and ostracised for the alleged poisoning of Mr Skripal and his daughter, when no evidence has been produced to demonstrate that they are behind that ‘attack’, No:10 has come up with a strategy to combat what it deems to be fake news.

    It has called this mandate – Fusion Doctrine.

    You really really could not make this up. But they did – and I do not mean the Russians.

  • Billy Bostickson

    Recent BBC Russia interview with Victoria Skripal, she still sticks to her original claims

    VS: Well, who? Even if the special services did it – why is it so clumsy? I believe that it was beneficial to some third party to quarrel between the two countries – Russia and Britain.
    But the first version that I said was that it was directed at Julia, and not at him. Someday we will get answers to all the questions.

    BBC interviewer immediately cut short the interview…

    https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-43559446

    Би-би-си: Он никак не намекал, что кто-то может быть недоволен его действиями?

    В.С.: Ну кто? Даже если это сделали спецслужбы – [почему] так топорно? Я считаю, что это было выгодно какой-то третьей стороне, чтобы рассорить две страны – Россию и Британию.

    Но первая версия, которая у меня была, – что это было направлено именно на Юлю, а не на него. Когда-нибудь мы получим ответы на все вопросы.

    Би-би-си: Вы думаете, вам когда-нибудь удастся узнать, что случилось на самом деле?

    В.С.: Мне – нет. Моим детям – может быть. Ни одна из стран не раскроет до конца карты

    • Mary Paul

      So who does it benefit for Britain to quarrel with Russia? And don’t say the Tories. I realise some people here have specific political allegiances which colour their views, but I do not, I am looking for a real explanation of what happened in Salisbury and if you think it was engineered by the UK government to turn people against Russia, think again. Most people really do not care that much about Russia. Most people I know are not particularly interested in our relationship with Russia and if they do take an interest in this affair, it is a passing one, along the lines of “Russia up to her usual tricks”. They are more interested in Brexit.

      In my circle it is generally assumed that all the oligarchs’ deaths in London and surrounds were carried out by Russia and the British government did not want the bother of investigating. So why would Russia raise the anti now? And why has the rest of Europe – where we are not flavour of the month right now, – jumped on board along with America and Canada. ? I think there must be some evidence of a Russian made nerve agent, hence the panicked reaction when the authorities realised what they were dealing with in Salisbury.

      It must be significant that this is a nerve agent of a type developed BY Russia. Note not IN Russia. I cannot help thinking there may be other locations where they might have been working on it, as in the Syrian lab, which enables them to claim they do not have any chemical weapons in the homeland. (The Crimea occurs to me as another possible site.) After all if Russian soldiers can volunteer to fight in the Ukraine, why can’t Russian scientists volunteer to work on chemical weapons in the laboratory of their ally Syria?

      The Russian “expert” interviewed by Matt Frei made another point – if you are operating in a third party country, you use third party weapons, otherwise you might as well stick a great big calling card on the operation. So did Russia want us to know it was them? Why? As a warning to us? For what? Or is it a warning to spies on our side and double agents in particular? We don’t know how Skripal was spending his time but as I said before he clearly wasn’t retired.

      • Bayleaf

        Good heavens. Mary. Where did you develop these ideas?

        I see you are persisting with the “they must know something that we don’t” line to explain the expulsions from multiple countries. As I already pointed out, governments don’t act like this because it is moral or “the right thing to do”. Instead, their decisions are hard-headed, pragmatic and often duplicitous, and will be based on an analysis of relative advantage.

        Your final two paragraphs are pure conjecture, based, as far as I can tell, upon nothing in particular. Russians developing nerve agents in Syria? Really? And the calling-card hypothesis is just evidence-free conjecture, apparently based upon nothing more than a desire to point the finger at Russia. It’s normal operating procedure for similar operations to fly under the radar, create diversions and use plausibly deniability. But in this case normal operational procedure was abandoned “to send a message”. Because… Well, Boris told us , so it must be true. Yeah, right.

        • Mary Paul

          I am speculating that as the UK is not exactly popular with other EU members at present, maybe there is some additional intelligence which has been passed on to make them support the Uk so quickly. I am particularly surprised by Mrs Merkel who normally, from everything I have read about her, requires hard facts to make hard decisions.

          As for speculating on motivations, since when did was that banned.? I am looking at what I know and what possible conclusions I can draw from it. You are welcome to disagree and i am always happy to read others’ views as they may well help me to refine mine.

          The reference to Russian scientists working on chemical weapons in Syria came from an interview published earlier this week by Andrew Billen in The Times with a former GRU agent in Austria. This is the lab mentioned,: http://www.nti.org/learn/facilities/478/. The reference to using third party weapons in a third party country to conceal ones activities there, came from an interview with a Russian security expert by Matt Frei in his channel 4 Despatches film on the Skripal incident. Both Billen and Frei are respected journalists.

          Of course everyone could be lying but that does not prevent us by seeing if there is a scenario to be deduced from what we know and indeed don’t know.

          • SA

            Mary
            You quote an NTI report. Do you know what type of organisation it is ?
            I don’t but stopped reading thier their after 2 paragraphs because it’s language is not very objective and is politically biased, using expressions that are seen in propaganda. I have no interest in trying to find out more about NTI but maybe you could try and find out thier source of income etc….

          • Mary Paul

            Bayleaf : Nti is I believe funded by Ted Turner. But no matter, you do not have to read their description of CERS, there are plenty more from other objective sources. Just look up CERS Syria chemical weapons. Jane’s Information Services for example describes it as being widely believed to develop chemical weapons. The ex GRU man interviewed by Andrew Billen said Russian scientists have been working there. This seems possible to me, given Russia and Syria are allies. (Incidentally there are also reports of Iranian scientists working there, on chemical weapons.) But do not take my word for it, look it up yourself.

          • Mary Paul

            For SA:: “Ted Turner is co-chair of NTI, a charitable organization working to reduce the global threats from nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.” I know nothing about NTI but it does not seem that alarming to me.

      • Sagittarius Rising

        Mary,

        It is quite apposite to ask such questions, and to ponder at political alliances as well. What I have noticed is that people who do not usually find themselves aligned with a particular view, in this instance are aligned with those with whom they may usually disagree – which is confusing.

        This perhaps suggests that allegiances are more along the lines of ‘liberal’ (perhaps neo-liberal would be more accurate) and conservative: in both instances, lower-case.

        This then allows for typically Labour supporters to ally themselves with typically Conservative voters, with the caveat that nothing is ‘typical’ in this instance – not least as it is politicians themselves who have ensured that boundaries that we all might recognise have been altered, not by the people but by those same politicians.

        This then opens up a whole new perhaps less obvious can of worms – when the alignment, or divide is not then wholly political even though it is manifest and described as political by politicians but is instead ideological, which is far more subtle and much more dangerous.

      • hetro

        Mary Paul, possibly interesting, RT today has two stories, one on the group of nations supporting expulsions and towing the UK/US State Department line and one on the much larger group of nations not towing the line:

        a) RT reports EU nations ‘fall in line’ obligatorily https://www.rt.com/news/422538-eu-us-pressure-skripal/

        b) meanwhile 160 other nations want evidence https://www.rt.com/news/422530-skripal-non-western-demand-proof/

        Yesterday, Alexander Mercouris, at The Duran, offered extensive analysis on the same topic of why so many nations dutifully and sheepdog like followed along with the UK/US State Department: http://theduran.com/expelling-russian-diplomats-tokenism-europe-petulance-washington/

        Yes, these sites are Russia inclined but no less worth thinking about than mainstream reporting?

      • Stephen

        US for the sake of isolating Russia. Stopping Nord Stream 2 and shipping LNG tankers to Europe.
        UK for the sake of issuing fracking licenses in tory strongholds without damaging their support too much as they can say we can’t buy gas from Russia.
        Both of them so that there is less opposition if they try to target Assad/Iran or back up any Kiev military action against the Pro Russian separatists in the east of Ukraine. Not to mention the continuing annoyance of the fact Russia never let Nato get a hold of it’s only deep warm water port in Crimea.

      • Harald K

        I can’t understand how people like Craig Murray, who’s quite capable of calling western leaders irrational and pig-headed and willing to lash out in stupid ways – refuses to think Putin would be likewise.

        The motive is obvious: kill a “traitor”. To send a message, nominally, but whether sending a message actually achieves the objective – discouraging other would-be traitors – isn’t especially important. In ego-driven decision making, that’s the wrong question to ask. Western leaders, even Trump, has people willing to resist if asked to do some criminally stupid blowhard action, like a flashy poisoning of an ex-agent. People who would rather quit their jobs in protest (like quite a few have under Trump). Not because they’re any more morally brave, usually, but because they know it’s worth serving longer-term power structures.

        Putin doesn’t have such people. Civil servants there don’t believe in any longer-term powers. “How would he do anything that stupid, it doesn’t make sense!” – this is how.

        Yes, it’s technically possible it was someone else. And for that reason yes, May should (should have, rather) follow the rules, be public about all evidence, and get external verification for e.g. the type of agent found. But as Julian Assange too said, all evidence points to Russia.

        • Mary Paul

          I am quite ready to believe it was Putin but surely he has many other means at his disposal than nerve gases. After Glushkov was found strangled a few days later.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    In my view, if Thierry Meyssan was a musician, he would be completely off the scale. It would be the political equivalent of The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who turning up at his first gig in London and seeing Jimi Hendrix for the first time.

    I have enormous respect for Thierry Meyssan, because he often writes about major political events before they have happenned. Although French, living in Damascus, he appears to have the most amazing contacts, from deep inside all of the Beasts. Not just France, Washington, Berlin, London, Moscow and Beijing, but all of them too.

    This is his latest effort. In my experience he is usually correct, but here he ascribes powers to The British Crown, which I find somewhat hard to believe, and to which I certainly do not approve of. However, what he writes is very interesting. Unlike The British Politicians, he has no history, that I have identified of making stuff up. He may get some things wrong, but he doesn’t lie.

    “Theresa May’s Foreign Policy” by Thierry Meyssan

    http://www.voltairenet.org/article200375.html

    Extract

    “Thierry Meyssan pursues his study of national foreign policies. After having analysed the policy of France, he now turns to that of the United Kingdom. While the former is considered to be the « private domain » of the President of the Republic, and as such, escapes the democratic debate, the latter, even more so, is elaborated by an elite gathered around the monarch, outside of any form of popular control. Thus the elected Prime Minister can do no more than implement the choice of the hereditary Crown. Faced with the failure of the US project for a unipolar world, London is attempting to restore its erstwhile imperial power.”

    Tony

    • Ivan

      That character is a fabulist, stringing events and conjectures along as in a drunken state, and his blog generally is no different. It gives us conspiracy theorists, a bad name.

    • SA

      I used to read voltairenet a lot but now don’t. I think it is a bit over the top and should be taken, if at all with a big pinch of salt.

  • Tony_0pmoc

    As a result of reading John Ward’s Slog (where I am banned like a lot of places) I came across this, which is also very interesting indeed. It is all about the mural, which I knew absolutely nothing about, written by the American who painted it in London. A few years ago, John who comes from Manchester, would have deleted most of the comments, that are still on his blog. He did say, which team he used to play for on Sundays, and I never had a problem with that.

    I suggest you read it – especially the links. John Ward himself, does often write exceptionally well. On checking, it seems that the website, that the mural painter exclusively wrote on, is being subjected to a Massive Denial of Service Attack, but it will probably come back, unless they assassinate David Icke too or turn him into a shape shifting lizard. At least he speaks a lot nicer than that American Alex. I simply can’t stand his grating voice. But the bloke Paul Joseph Watson from Sheffield is often O.K.

    “The Twattering Classes”

    https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2018/03/27/the-twattering-classes-20

    Nowt like a bit of censorship, to change people’s minds.

    Tony

  • Charles

    Unless the British Authorities can explain the inconsistencies including why a Detective Sergeant was first on the scene then I think the Russians could be right. That Britain attempted to kill (may still yet) two Russian citizens with the motive of framing Russia and causing them Diplomatic problems throughout the world.

    Britain was too quick to draw conclusions and make extremely serious allegations.

    DS Bailey should not have been first on the scene, what was he doing there? Why has there not been an explanation and why no explanation of Dr Stephen Davies’ comments.

    It looks more like British guilt than Russian on the evidence available.

    https://www.ft.com/content/716c1abe-327d-11e8-ac48-10c6fdc22f03

    • Mary Paul

      I have a suggestion for that. In the only recorded account of someone being exposed to a form of Novichok (, one of the scientists developing it who accidentally inhaled some fumes, ) he actually got out of the lab and into the street before collapsing. In the Matt Frei film this week on C4 there is a clip of a young male eye witness who said he saw Skripal on the bench vomiting with his daughter lying on the ground. Skripal was an experienced agent. If like the scientist described, he had a few minutes to realise what was happening before passing out, he may have realised he was poisoned and got a call into his handler ( who lived locally if we are to believe the stories.) He rang the police and explained this was no ordinary emergency and they sent along DS Bailey as their nearest available reliable senior CID officer. It’s a theory.

      • Ultraviolet

        Well, that is not consistent with what we are being told tonight. Even the Independent has refused to open its story to comments.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43577987

        Spy poisoning: Highest amount of nerve agent was on door

        A Russian ex-spy and his daughter first came into contact with the nerve agent that poisoned them at their home, police have said.

        The highest concentration of the agent used against Sergei and Yulia Skripal was found on their front door.

        So this nerve agent kills in seconds or minutes, and yet they were poisoned as they left their home, and only collapsed many hours later after spending a day doing a range of normal activities.

        Yeah, plenty of time to put in that call!

        • Maureen

          Well I even have a bit of a problem with the doorknob.
          Isn’t it bloody cold over there ?
          Don’t you Brits wear gloves when going outside?
          Whoever smeared the doorknob was taking a risk , first of being seen, second of contaminating himself(I guess he/she would have got rid of his gloves ….or wiped with baby wipes? at any rate getting rid of the gloves and container as soon as possible…so a search for them should be in order)
          and thirdly the risk that the Skripals would be all rugged and gloved up

          • SA

            Maureen
            I liked how you slipped that baby wipes thing. That is brilliant. It is one of those small details of a story being made up as we go. The CMO issued this advice to people that may be worried, to wipe thier phones with baby wipes, to remove a poison 7 or 10 or however many times more lethal than Sarin which takes ages to work and can be smeared on doorknobs and lead to an initial assessment that no one should panic as there is no risk to anyone, and the police are not particularly looking for any killers at large,to then later issue instructions that all clothes worn on that day should be handed in for safe disposal and that 46or 130 people or whatever may have been potentially exposed to a possible…..
            sorry for the very long sentence but I couldn’t stop the flow.

          • bayleaf

            The doorstop story is simply more chaff to distract our attention.

            As I have already pointed out elsewhere on this thread, any chemical agent would have had to be applied in or just before the park for it to have affected both people at the same time. A slow-acting agent would have affected the two at different times, since they were different of ages, weight and BMI – and would have received different doses from touching a doorknob.

            If we accept the premise that a chemical was applied in or close to the park as the most likely scenario, it means that the police should have been examining all video footage from security cameras in and around the centre of Salisbury. Unfortunately, I believe this is something that they would rather avoid doing, since it might turn up some uncomfortable possibilities. It also means that the report of multiple sites being contaminated is a lie.

            I’m also coming to believe that the unnamed lady doctor is either a piece of BBC fiction or was a planted witness similar to the person who was interviewed stating that Jean Charles de Menezes was seen leaping over barriers while being pursued by the police. If correct, we must treat the reports of the symptoms, such as foaming at the mouth and convulsions, with caution. Perhaps they were simply unconscious – or even faking it.

          • Michael McNulty

            Also, when two people leave a house they don’t typically both touch the outside of the doorknob. Usually one steps out and the last person through the door, usually the keyholder, makes sure it’s locked. If the keyholder steps through first for the second person to pull it shut, then he doesn’t typically touch the outside doorknob. And there’s no guarantee it’s your target who will touch it, and to kill the wrong person lets the target know an attempt was made o his life.

            I find it a weak explanation. Not impossible but not very likely.

          • MightyDrunken

            Yeah the front door theory makes no sense. I think it is important to remember that “finding the highest concentration at location x” is not the same as its source. So I will assume that the police know that the door may not be the source, but contaminated from an earlier exposure.
            Therefore this implies;
            – The Skripals were poisoned before or around 9am, unless they went back to the house after the graveyard.
            – it is likely that the source was the house or something in the house.

            I believe the longer the duration between the exposure and their collapse the less likely it is the source. Nerve agents tend to act quickly, but I will assume that this agent was chosen for its slow effect or something delayed it. However the main problem with an early poisoning is that Sergey and Yuliya succumbed within minutes of each other.
            Given that they did start feeling the effects around the same time, either they had a very similar dose and they were poisoned at most a few hours before. Or they received dissimilar doses and were poisoned minutes before.
            The second problem with a long time frame is that there will feel unwell well before they collapse yet they had just eaten a meal and wondered around Salisbury.
            If my musings are correct how can the poison be found at the house?
            – An item from the house was poisoned and it was handled/consumed while they were in Salisbury.
            – They received the poison during the day and comeback to the house before going to Salisbury. (timing still a bit of a problem)
            – It was planted on the door to muddy the waters (sounds unnecessary and risky to me)
            – It wasn’t?

          • Spaull

            Another thing I find strange is that we have not been told where DS Bailey was contaminated. Nor why he and he alone of any third parties was contaminated.

            The more I think about it, the more I think that “DS Bailey” poisoned the Skripals but botched the job and got some of the agent on himself. He then called in for help, hence him getting the right antidote promptly enough. The official story doesn’t hang together because it is a hastily constructed cover-up that has been unable to cope with emerging facts and its own logical impossibilities.

          • G.Bng

            And 4th, how much of a coincidence that both Skripals must have touched the door handle within seconds or minutes of each other, (both showed the same effects at the same time on the park bench), when normally a male owner would shut the door with his key although it is possible that the daughter guest could have a key and shut it with hers… but both!

  • Victor

    I am trying very hard as to exactly what the agenda, of the incumbent British government (together with the UK media rat pack, as well as other EU countries, NATO and the US) is, in demonizing and accusing Russia, without a shred of concrete evidence, over the crime of poisoning the Skripal’s, in Salisbury with this nerve agent, Novichok?

    Whatever happened to the notion that one is innocent until proven guilty? And, moreover, proven guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt.

    I also find it hard to believe that Mr Putin would sanction such an act on a man he had pardoned – after having sat for several years in a Russian prison camp + he needs this like he needs a hole in his head. Moreover, had he wanted to bump Mr Skripol off…he could have had that conveniently arranged in Russia, while he was still sitting behind bars and no one would have been none the wiser.

    • SA

      It has been a long and carefully orchestrated plan to ‘isolate’ Russia especially after Putin came to power.
      The fall of the Soviet Union in 1991 was a godsend for the advocates of full spectrum unipolar world domination by the leaders of the ‘free world’. Initially this was done by trying to ‘democratise’ Russia by getting thier favourite Russia agent Yeltsin to shell parliament and assume totalitarian powers in 1993. They then did thier best to strip Russia of all its resources and siphon the money overseas.they then used all sorts of tricks to interfere with the Russian elections in 1996 to have Yeltsin, who had a rating of 5% when elections were called, to be re-elected, an amazing feat using all the persuasive powers that big democracies have to sway such elections. You can read all about this in a recent article by Ned Snark on Insurge.
      The whole process was suddenly halted when Yeltsin appointed Putin, an unknown, as his successor who turned the tables back in favour of using Russian resources and money to improve Russia rather than the money being laundered in the City. Long complex story but I will leave you to find out more about it.

  • Stephen

    Although I am in the UK/US did this camp. I have had the chance to read a bit more about the extent of Skripal’s actions on the behalf MI6. Considering much of it will never be released.the summary of what he did gives a lot of people who are no doubt very dangerous or very connected plenty of motive to bide their time and make him pay.
    From the little I have read it appears he possibly outed 100’s of agents of which many were arrested and an unknown number were disappeared. Their must be colleagues, family members, friends and or business connections of all those who suffered because of Skripal’s betrayal and on top of that the Russian security services themselves who have long memories.
    It has been reported that when he went to meet his handler he would flaunt his wealth with a designer bag. Upon his arrival in the UK he was able to afford or was given a £340,000 house in Wiltshire. He is reported to have continued his activities in some manner by repeatedly visiting the Russian embassy and reaching out to his contacts in Russia.
    A lot of this doesn’t make much sense. Why would he leave any of his family in Russia after the sheer number of enemies he made through his actions. Why did his family members feel safe in Russia after what he did. I suppose ultimately if he did cause so much suffering for so many then why wasn’t he killed in prison.
    Could they have been purely keeping him alive because they knew he would be a very valuable asset for any future spy swap. Was he kept in isolation while in prison. It is not an unreasonable suggestion to those who would always play the long game of geopolitics.

    • Tony_0pmoc

      Stephen,

      Unusually for me, I was both sober and on this case from Day One.

      Being a bit of a twat, I simply put his name Skripal, Salisbury into 192.com, and his full name and address came up. I suspect some f’kin journo from The Daily Mail read what I wrote on here, or did it himself, and went round and invited the police. “Here this is where the poisoned spy lives – I have already taken the photos”

      Now if he felt under any threat whatsoever, why didn’t he go ex-directory, and tick the little box, when he gets the electoral register – No I do not want any cnts from The Daily Mail or even me coming round or phoning me up.

      It works for me, and i haven’t done anything wrong.

      He quite obviously has.

      I note my earlier effor has been deleted. I wonder what the moderators of The Saker will make of it. They are very conservative, and I said again, I really fancy Maria Zacharova.

      Look, I do not want to see any journalists, except down the pub – That is perfectly O.K., providing you buy me a pint.

      There are some very good bands on this weekend.

      Tony

  • Charles

    Tony O saw your contribution, many thanks , not sure what it meant though.

    But the phyco stuff is now coming into play and I expect you will enjoy watching it unravel.

    So now Door Handle “Is” the Source

    And DS Bailey was not (as stated by the police previously) First on the Scene (at the bench) but was First on the Scene at Skripal’s home.

    Nice try! The early reports including the police statements of Bailey being First on the Scene “where the couple were found” are now, as I write being deleted from the internet. One Salisbury Journal Google Search Listing shows the original statement but when you click on the link the story no longer makes the original claim that still exist (for now) in the link. The internet makes re-writing the past more difficult for those that give a damn.

    Government now threatening to clamp down on Misinformation being put on the internet regarding the Skripals. You couldn’t make this mirth up.

    Get the popcorn and beers.

  • Charles

    Logic dictates that only one of them closed the door (only one put their hand on the nerve agent).

    They both succumbed within moments of each other up to 7 hours later. Different ages, weight, health condition and sex.

    Door handle touched when they left the home at c 9:00am? Or did they return? If they did not after c13:20

    • Stephen

      Proximity to a military grade nerve agent would likely be enough. They could have touched it several times and it must have been non detectable to touch and slow acting. It would only take the one following the other out the door. One opens from the inside and the other follows out and closes the door behind them.

      • Crackerjack

        But its not slow acting – thats the point

        So lets take this new revalation at face value

        Someone in the dead of night sneaks up and paints the door handle with this poison. A poison known to degrade in contact with water vapour.

        Enough lasts over night to be still active and when Mr Skripal leaves (wearing gloves cos its cold) he closes the door picking up the poison.

        They visit the grave and Mr Skripal takes his daughters hand in a moment of solemnity. She’s also wearing gloves.

        They spend the next few hours at the pub and restaurant before finally succumbing to the poison at the bench

        DS Bailey goes to the house many hours later and opens the door so becoming the only other person in Salisbury to be poisoned.

        How likely is this scenario? Trying my best here!

          • Crackerjack

            A very good question.

            Best info is a nominal 6C with a windchill of 3C. A dull and cloudy day with possibly snow on the ground but I think that would be a mid day recording.

            http://bd8.com/russia/skripal/

            Another one. Do Special Services/professional assassins guess and hope?

      • Charles

        “Proximity to a military grade nerve agent would likely be enough.”

        You’d have thought so but no on else in Salisbury affected including those first responder member’s of the public.

        ” They could have touched it several times”
        Or only once

        “and it must have been non detectable to touch”
        Or gloopy as they just said on telly

        “and slow acting.”
        What would be the purpose of a slow acting Military Grade Nerve Agent? Is there such a thing?

        “One opens from the inside and the other follows out and closes the door behind them.”

        Are you suggesting the inside handle was also treated?

        • SA

          But not if it is ‘military grade’. This only specifically targets named people and doesn’t kill them just sends a message to NATO and EU countries to unite behind a beleaguered ally.

      • G.Bng

        Not sure about it being, “slow acting” since all three of the known people affected before this incident, all of them chemists working on the so called “Novichok” project, noted immediate effect after they had come into contact accidentally with the nerve agent.

    • Bayleaf

      Indeed. I find it quite interesting – perhaps even revealing – how our servile media are inventing all these baseless scenarios, yet, as far as I can tell, they all direct us away from the possibility that a chemical agent was administered in or around the park.

      Why might this be?

      Well, given that Britain is alleged to have amongst the highest density of security cameras in the world, the police would then be required to investigate all that footage and interview witnesses who were present in the centre of Salisbury. By fabricating all these diversionary stories, such as contaminated doorknobs, the police are given the pretext to focus their efforts elsewhere and avoid the awkward possibility of truly solving the crime.

      • Emily

        This twitter originates from Moon of Alabama.
        A very respected site indeed.
        I wouldn’t have posted it had I had doubts about the source.
        And apparently others have indeed spotted a gap and various reasons have been suggested…
        Security and investigative for instance.
        But it does seem to show a possible incendiary – not kids with matches.

    • Ivan

      It could well be a guy in a hurry to meet his buddies at the bar, but having to collect the milk bottle for his kid from home. That could be why he flung the can right into the play pen. His wife must have been there.

      • Crackerjack

        Watch the video posted by the bloke who says “he greeted someone”. It has been edited. There is a 4 minute gap from 15:56 where nothing is happening to 16:00 where the fire has taken hold. Doctored videos do not breed confidence. Twatter still less.

        • Crackerjack

          Even more. Look at both videos for the woman in the pink top and black bag and the chap in the leather bomber who stands next to her in video 2. They are not there in video 1 when the smoke appears. Who is doctoring what?

    • Paul Barbara

      @ Emily March 29, 2018 at 00:34
      Some folks with the same mentality as the State actors that blew up the Afred Murrah building in Oklahoma City ‘False Flag’.
      The nursery kids got killed, but the ATF office in the building was warned and none of them died.

  • Adrian

    Happy Easter, all! I’m a Canadian with deep roots in England, and trying to reconcile two news stories:

    1) the UK government has committed £48 million to setting up “a new chemical weapons centre at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) at Porton Down”

    2) it’s also recently reported Salisbury District Hospital staff must scrimp and save by “using cheaper drugs. Other initiatives include surgeons using cheaper gloves, cheaper sutures being used for wounds and operating theatres being used more efficiently. Staff have also been banned from using first class stamps in an attempt to save money.”

    It appears the government’s priorities are misplaced. Am I missing something in this picture?

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