Evidence submitted by the British government in court today proves, beyond any doubt, that Boris Johnson has been point blank lying about the degree of certainty Porton Down scientists have about the Skripals being poisoned with a Russian “novichok” agent.
Yesterday in an interview with Deutsche Welle Boris Johnson claimed directly Porton Down had told him they positively identified the nerve agent as Russian:
You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?
Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …
So they have the samples …
They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt.
I knew and had published from my own whistleblowers that this is a lie. Until now I could not prove it. But today I can absolutely prove it, due to the judgement at the High Court case which gave permission for new blood samples to be taken from the Skripals for use by the OPCW. Justice Williams included in his judgement a summary of the evidence which tells us, directly for the first time, what Porton Down have actually said:
The Evidence
16. The evidence in support of the application is contained within the applications
themselves (in particular the Forms COP 3) and the witness statements.
17. I consider the following to be the relevant parts of the evidence. I shall identify the
witnesses only by their role and shall summarise the essential elements of their
evidence.
i) CC: Porton Down Chemical and Biological Analyst
Blood samples from Sergei Skripal and Yulia Skripal were analysed and the
findings indicated exposure to a nerve agent or related compound. The samples
tested positive for the presence of a Novichok class nerve agent OR CLOSELY RELATED AGENT.
The emphasis is mine. This sworn Court evidence direct from Porton Down is utterly incompatible with what Boris Johnson has been saying. The truth is that Porton Down have not even positively identified this as a “Novichok”, as opposed to “a closely related agent”. Even if it were a “Novichok” that would not prove manufacture in Russia, and a “closely related agent” could be manufactured by literally scores of state and non-state actors.
This constitutes irrefutable evidence that the government have been straight out lying – to Parliament, to the EU, to NATO, to the United Nations, and above all to the people – about their degree of certainty of the origin of the attack. It might well be an attack originating in Russia, but there are indeed other possibilities and investigation is needed. As the government has sought to whip up jingoistic hysteria in advance of forthcoming local elections, the scale of the lie has daily increased.
On a sombre note, I am very much afraid the High Court evidence seems to indicate there is very little chance the Skripals will ever recover; one of the reasons the judge gave for his decision is that samples taken now will be better for analysis than samples taken post mortem.
——————————————————-
This website remains under a massive DOS attack which has persisted for more than 24 hours now, but so far the defences are holding. Some strange form of “ghost banning” is also affecting both my twitter and Facebook feeds. So please
a) Feel free to repost, republish, translate or spread this article anywhere and anyway you can. All copyright is waived.
b) If you came here by Twitter, please retweet but also in addition create a new tweet yourself containing a link to this post (or to any other site on which you have placed the information)
c) If you came here by Facebook, again please share but also in addition create a new post yourself which contains the information and the link.
The state and corporate media now have evidence of the vast discrepancy between what May and Johnson are saying, and the truth about the Porton Down scientists’ position. I am afraid to say I expect this to make no difference whatsoever to the propaganda output of the BBC.
Hello Mr. Murray,
Thank you for the excellent articles you regularly post in your blog, a refuge from brainwash and propaganda.
I am not sure if you have already commented on a strange coincidence that one could see in the Skripals’ poisoning and a major chemical exercise, the “Exercise Toxic Dagger”, that took place near Salisbury (the Salisbury Plain exercise) according to the Royal Marines website page that you can find here (scroll down to see the location name):
https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2018/march/06/180306-toxic-storm-for-royal-marines-in-major-chemical-exercise
“It climaxes with a full-scale exercise involving government and industry scientists and more than 300 military personnel, including the RAF Regiment and the RM Band Service – casualty treatment was a key part of the Salisbury Plain exercise.”
And here one can find maps of the Ministry of Defence Salisbury Plain Training Area:
http://php.wiltshire.gov.uk/row/sect31deposits/mod_deposits.php
“MOD Salisbury Plain Training Area Section 31(6) Deposits”
Am I missing something or the whole Slisbury area (and Salisbury itself ?) was the location of the major chemical exercise that took place on 06/03/2018, two days after the Skripals’ poisoning ?
Obviously preparations for the the major chemical exercise began at least few weeks prior to the beginning of the exercise on 06/03/2018.
Just two days prior Skripal and his daughter were allegedly poisoned right in the area of the major military chemical exercise by allegedly military grade nerve agent that would possibly be used during the exercise.
Would it be a stretch to assume that UK military personnel would probably use “military grade agents” of types “made outside UK” (otherwise what’s the purpose) ?
But in any case – what a coincidence indeed
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/exercise-toxic-dagger-the-sharp-end-of-chemical-warfare
“40 Commando Royal Marines and The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl)*** have staged the UK’s biggest annual exercise to prepare troops for Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) operations. Exercise TOXIC DAGGER is supported by Dstl, along with Public Health England (PHE) and The Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE), and is the largest exercise of its kind in the country.
Specialists in CBRN from Dstl and AWE are able to create realistic exercise scenarios based on the latest threat information. Completing the training and exercising against these scenarios provides a challenging programme for the Royal Marines to demonstrate their proficiency in the methods to detect, assess and mitigate a CBRN threat.”
*** “About us The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) ensures that innovative science and technology contribute to the defence and security of the UK.
“Our locations
Headquarters
Porton Down
Salisbury
Wiltshire ”
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/exercise-toxic-dagger-the-sharp-end-of-chemical-warfare
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/defence-science-and-technology-laboratory/about
In case someone missed that – they are located not “8 miles from Salisbury” in Porton Down.
They are located right in Salisbury, and that’s where they probably keep some of their “goodies”.
Absolutely no need to bring it from Russia.
A video from the last day of exercise Toxic Dagger was published on February 19:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4BY74rfObY
It was completed well before 6 March, and the RN article refers to it in the past tense.
It was not not.
Any objection regarding the location ?
And the time (several months prior) they started preparing for that ?
Not so much of a coincidence if you know tat they hold the same exercise at around the same time every year and have done for the last five years.
‘Not so much of a coincidence if you know tat they hold the same exercise at around the same time every year’
If a Russian/British ex-spy gets poisoned during the Exercise Toxic Dagger ‘at around the same time every year’ then you statement is correct.
Please remind us names of Russian/British ex-spies who were poisoned last year, two years ago, three years ago etc.
de Pfeffel launching another Hitler Nazi tirade against Vladimir Vladimirovich and Russia again in today’s Torygraph.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/23/boris-johnson-compares-putins-annexation-crimea-hitlers-occupation/
Where are you going with this, Foreign Secretary?
.
Brian
This herd bit. The poor deluded Baltic states do not realise that they are being used as cat’s paw canon fodder. To hear thier representatives speak about this and about Russia in a very arrogant way is bewildering for nations that are very minor in every other way except that they are NATO’s frontline states.
There’s a quite weird article on the BBC website”
“Russian spy: Being an agent ‘messed up’ Skripal’s life”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43523923
Interviewing an ex-KGB colleague in Moscow the BBC reporter says his colleague reports Skripal as regretting being a double agent/traitor and had written to Putin asking if he could return. There was no response from Putin.
Perhaps Skripal had again become a double agent in play to both sides. What useful information could he have to trade living in Salisbury? His British minder was probably ex-MI6 agent Pablo Miller (who originally recruited him) who also lives in Salisbury and is a member of Orbis. It was Christopher Steele who lives just down the road in Farnham who is also a member of Orbis and wrote the extremely dodgy dossier which is the whole basis of Russiagate in the US. Its likely that Skripal, as ex-KGB, could have given some useful colouring to the fiction.
So as a traitor wishing to return to Russia he could have given Russia – and the Trump faction in America – useful information on the dossier being fiction. Alternatively it could have been a longterm Russian grudge against him. But both sides could have had an interest in offing him.
You may be on to something here.
Question: what other famous Russian exile wrote a letter to Putin requesting to return to Russia? And what happened to him shortly thereafter?
“Boris Berezovsky ‘sought Putin’s permission’ to return to Moscow”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/europe/russia/9966671/Boris-Berezovsky-sought-Putins-permission-to-return-to-Moscow.html
It looks very much like there was a response from Putin – there’s a pretty staight forward chain of events here. It doesn’t need theories about becoming a double agent again blah blah.
The circumstantial evidence is pointing very much towards Russia… and another pyschopathic act by Putin, in response to some very unwise pleas for clemency. But at least Putin’s got this blog and its followers to theorise some red herrings for him… anything to escape the far and away most likely explanation…
Hi Theresa!
The Theresa May/British establishment conspiracy theories give May credit for having a smartness and cleverness that she just doesn’t anywhere near have. The election own goal sums up her abilities…
The circumstantial evidence is pointing very much towards Russia… and another pyschopathic act by Putin, in response to some very unwise pleas for clemency.
So to be clear, you are suggesting :
(1) The far and away most likely explanation is that Putin ordered the assassination because Skripal asked to return to Russia.
(2) The other people on this blog are deluded.
I’m suggesting that
(1) The Russian state carried out this assassination as an act or revenge because Skripal was viewed as a traitor… and they’ve got away with these things in the past… particularly in the formerly very sycophantic UK.
(2) No, I wouldn’t put it as strong as a delusion. A notable number of people at this forum have a perspective which paints Putin in a much more positive light than the very long trail of bodies warrants.
Collective group think would be the term. People gravitate to a place where their prejudices are reinforced rather than challenged. And… as in a cult or something like that… ideas, which on the outside, look plain silly, pass as recieved wisdom… however ridiculous doesn’t matter… the defining variable is that other people agree: ergo everyone here must be right.
Try this for an antidote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw_RXwgxEKg
I can’t think about Salisbury now without imagining Patrick MacNee as John Steele driving his Bentley on an empty road from Salisbury to Porton Down, and Diana Rigg as Emma Peel walking into a Salisbury shop where she meets a character with a thick Russian accent played by John Hurt and a bumbling yet murderous clown played by Boris Johnson…
The plodding John Simpson on Radio 4 just now with an assessment that Israel may be planning an attack on the alleged ‘Iranian base’ in Syria. Meanwhile the preparations in the US in terms of the instalmentbof super hawk Bolton and before that of Pompeo is part of this plan. Of course our plucky government will join, as they did in the cowardly attack on Suez in 1956 with Israel, together probably with the Baltic states and probably Ukraine to defend our allies which include Saudi Arabia , to protect ‘our values’.
Nevertheless it is a process of softening probably followed by a provocation as happened with the episode ending with the downing of the F16. This would also test Syrian air defences and resolve.
Good post, SA. Bang on.
What about the claim from Viktoria Skripal and her friend Tamara, that it was her boyfriend’s mother who “planted” the nerve agent in a bottle(perfume/vodka/other spirits) or sealed can of something (sausages/herring/caviar) which was then opened by the Skripals and resulted in their poisoning on the park bench (cold day, let’s have a slug of X that your future mother-in-law kindly sent over from Moscow…glug, glug, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh)
It was a big claim by the Skripal family in Russia made initially on mashtv, but now they have shut their mouths or have had their mouths shut.
Where did you hear about this? Any links (even to secondary sources)?
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Viktoria+Skripal+mother+in+law&oq=Viktoria+Skripal+mother+in+law&aqs=chrome..69i57.5790j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
and what pathetic investigative reporting, we don’t even know Julia Skripal’s mysterious boyfriend’s name (supposedly a member of Russian security services) nor his mother’s (who works high up in the “structure”) and no further attempt has been made to investigate Viktoria Skripal or Tamara’s claims. since they were published 10 days ago. WTF?
They don’t need to do anymore investigating. Boris Johnson and the rest of the political class have told them what happened. Any journalist seeking to investigate further would just expose themselves as a Putin puppet.
Personally I think that we should be very grateful that adversaries like Russia and Syria keep carrying out stupid, pointless, and utterly counterproductive chemical weapon attacks at exactly the moment that is most opportune for us. I suspect “Butcher Assad” will do it again very soon. In fact I’m almost certain he will.
How about the use of the word ‘malfeasance’?
Operation Antler (Porton Down investigation)
For the British 1957 atomic weapons tests, see British nuclear tests at Maralinga § Operation Antler.
In July 1999 the UK Wiltshire Constabulary opened an investigation into allegations of malfeasance at Porton Down Chemical and Biological Research Establishment. As a consequence of these preliminary investigations the scope of the inquiry was broadened into a major inquiry named Operation Antler.
The inquiries established that a number of the participants in the Service Volunteer Programme claimed to have been tricked into taking part in experiments. Some also claimed to have suffered long-term illness or injury as a result of the experiments.
The investigation covered the period from 1939 to 1989 and has lasted for five years. Its 13 members interviewed over 700 ex-servicemen or their relatives. The British Government provided the constabulary with an additional 870,000 pounds towards the costs.
/..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Antler_(Porton_Down_investigation)
and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nuclear_tests_at_Maralinga#Operation_Antler
In this article https://euobserver.com/foreign/141434 it says
‘Macron said it was “obvious” that France would take further action.
“We consider this attack a serious challenge to our security and European sovereignty so it calls for a coordinated and determined response from the European Union and its member states”, he said.
He added that French experts had come to “the same technical conclusions” as British ones on the case in a “very clear way”.’
Why would Macron say ‘in a very clear way’? It kind of implies irrufuteable proof has been provided.
Theresa had him in an armlock. She goes to Judo lessons weekly in Sonning village hall.
Hahaha! You are probably right. But it seems an odd choice of words.
Also dont forget Macron has a thing for older women. He’s probably got the hots for Treeza bad.
Why would Macron say ‘in a very clear way’? It kind of implies irrufuteable proof has been provided.
So May has given samples to France she has illegally denied to Russia?
I don’t think that, I am just intrigued by the statement. Why bother saying ‘in a very clear way’?
“Russia has no right to have access to the samples,” said Professor Alastair Hay, a chemical warfare expert from Leeds University.
Russia was banned from the Olympics for state sponsored doping, the official laboratory which tested the athletes was falsifying results. The only reason they want samples is so they can claim they got different results.
Samples have been given to OPCW, they have the best scientists and equipment in the world. There is no reason and no legal obligation to give samples to Russia.
Link for the above quote.
http://www.euronews.com/2018/03/22/russia-has-no-right-to-see-nerve-agent-samples
“Russia has no right to have access to the samples,” said Professor Alastair Hay, a chemical warfare expert from Leeds University.
“I suspect, but maybe wrong, that the UK would not want to run the risk of Russia investigating the samples and claiming it had either found nothing or something quite different. That would then develop into an unhelpful argument.”
Section 9 Chemical Weapons Convention provides for…
Without prejudice to the right of any State Party to request a challenge inspection, States Parties should, whenever possible, first make every effort to clarify and resolve, through exchange of information and consultations among themselves, any matter which may cause doubt about compliance with this Convention, or which gives rise to concerns about a related matter which may be considered ambiguous.
An exchange of information must include a sample, even a suspected drink driving suspect is provided with a sample, to be analized by a laboratory of his choice.
Nothing in Article 9 says a country has a obligation to provide another country with a sample. That is not what a right to an inspection means. Britain has complied with their obligations and provided a sample to the OPCW.
The full text of the convention is here.
https://www.opcw.org/fileadmin/OPCW/CWC/CWC_en.pdf
Article 9 does not say an exchange of information must include a sample.
Drink driving is covered by domestic law, international law is something completely different.
Professor Hay is not a legal expert on interpretation of international treaties he is an epidemiologist who apparently sits on UK government committees
Fred you are ignoring fundamental laws of Justice…
“The British government has said that unless Russia proves itself innocent within a specific time the British government will conclude that it is guilty. As I have explained previously this reverses the burden of proof: in a criminal case it is the prosecution which is supposed to prove the defendant’s guilt, not the defendant who must prove his innocence;
(3) The British government refuses to share with Russia – the party it says is guilty – the ‘evidence’ upon which it says it has concluded that Russia is guilty, the evidence in this case being a sample of the chemical with which it says Sergey and Yulia Skripal was poisoned.
This violates the fundamental principle that the defendant must be provided with all the evidence against him so that he can properly prepare his defence;
(4) The British government is not following the procedure set out in Article IX (2) of the Chemical Weapons Convention to which both Britain and Russia are parties. http://theduran.com/skripal-case-british-media-admits-due-process-not-apply-russia/
Article 9(2) “any matter”!
A sample, some proof
.Forget some 3rd rate British Professor clearly with an axe to grind if he supports the completely unjust Olympic ban.
Not least on all disabled competitors.
Take a look at international law.
You can argue all you like about whether they have that right. The consensus until now has been that Russia does have that right, as you would expect in any situation where anyone is facing a serious accusation.
And yes, of course you would expect them to claim something different if they are guilty.
That is why the OPCW is there as an independent arbiter.
You seem to be defaulting to the view that we must believe Britain because Britain would never lie. Sorry, after Iraq and Libya, we have long since forfeited the right to be regarded in such a way.
You seem to be defaulting to the view that Putin Russia would never lie.
Sorry, but after the false flag apartment bombings used to invade Chechnya, the little green men in Crimea, the prevarication about supporting rebels in Donbass, lies upon lies about MH17, early denials that anything was wrong at Chernobyl while a radioactive plume spread across Europe, their coverup at Mayak while allowing undesirable Tatars to be poisoned….
We know better than to trust Russia.
Why would Macron say ‘in a very clear way’?
Did he say it in English? Perhaps he used a French phrase which doesn’t translate in a very clear way.
Sources for Viktoria Skripal’s claims originally on mashtv:
Google “Viktoria Skripal mother in law”
Thanks
The elected Liberal Democrats in Scotland keep reaching new lows. While Jo Swinson MP campaigns for a statue to Maggie Thatcher, Alistair Carmichael MP accepts the offer of being a guest speaker at the Burns Supper of Tory landowner group Scotland in Union.
Now Lib Dem MSP Mike Rumbles goes even further. The former Sandhurst trained British Army officer Rumbles was the only MSP to vote with the Tories against the Continuity Bill. Without the bill the Scottish Parliament would be shorn of power and become the tool of Westminster.
Even the UKIP members of the Senedd voted against the Tories in the Continuity Bill there. We must conclude Rumbles became so imbued with British nationalist ideology in his army days that it has left him more reactionary than UKIP.
The people in the Scottish Liberal Democrats who have risen to the rank of parliamentarian have shown themselves to be essentially Tories. Completely out of step with many Lib Dem grass roots activists. If party members in Scotland wish to see the Liberal tradition continue in Scottish politics then they must surely realise that the antics of Rennie, Cole-Hamilton, Swinson, Carmichael and Rumbles are destroying the goodwill the term Liberal has here.
reel,
You are correct about Jo Swinson supporting a statue for Mrs Thatcher but it is not because she admires Mrs Thatcher – far from it. She despises everything Mrs Thatcher stood for – so by ‘supporting’ her, Ms Swinson is antagonising all those who respect and admire Mrs Thatcher whilst placating the ‘sistahood’ as well at the same time.
Yet another very interesting article by Craig that proves all is not well here. We now have the UK media, the UK government, the EU, the USA and NATO all buying into “evidence” that does not constitute evidence. For such a large scale deception to find wings requires that there are multiple benefits for multiple parties. These will undoubtedly include some or all of the following:
1. A justification to introduce sanctions on Russia thereby *weakening it
2. *slow down the Russian advanced weapons programmes
3. *make it more difficult for Russia to resist EU and NATO expansionism
4. Payback for Russia’s prevention of regime change in Syria
5. Create an opportunity for TM to strut like a fist pumping Churchill ahead of elections
6. Entrap Corbyn by using his principles of honesty against him
7. Offer Blairites the chance to depose their leader
8. Create an opportunity to water down or reverse Brexit
I do not believe that our intelligence services carried out the attack on the Skripals because if they had done so they would probably have left a slightly firmer, and more advanced, trail back to Russia. This looks more like the poisoning has been carried out by others (ironically, maybe even Russia) and the UK has decided to use it opportunistically.
What I am seeing here fills me with disgust to the degree that I am beginning to view the EU negatively. As a former remainer this is a surprise even to me. Furthermore I wasn’t a full Corbyn backer but I am now. He might actually be the only person capable of tackling our deep state problem.
1) Sanctions, like muggings, only work by the strong against the weak. The west hasn’t got the power to starve Russia.
2-3) Might the objective not be so gradualist?
4) Agreed, Syria is a very important theatre in West-and-Russia geopolitics.
5-7) What election?
8) Brexit has been put back two years anyway (in practice). The government has basically failed on what it says is its main objective, but wrapping themselves in the union jack was enough to ensure that nobody noticed.
My take is that the elites of both Russia and the West believe a major war is inevitable, and in a sense it has already started. The details of what happened at Salisbury – choice of weapon, place, propaganda themes, who gave orders to the team that used the weapon – may be more contingent than the underlying story that it is part of.
N- you say, “What elections?” The answer is the local elections due to take place in early May. It is currently expected that the Tories will do very badly, and that that might be enough to trigger May’s ouster as PM. Conversely, the Blairites are clearly trying to enusre that Labour will do worse than expected, giving them another chance to try to oust Corbyn. Owen Smith forcing Corbyn to sack him yesterday is quite blatantly aimed at creating divisions and minimising the Labour vote.
So while local elections would normally be of only modest significance, a lot of major powerplays are going on around these ones.
Russia’s economy is the size of Belgium + netherlands, undiversified, and ruled by oligarchs.
Sanctions can hurt them very badly. Russia is not that strong.
Interestingly friction exists in our own intelligence services on account of the existence of a Kidon cell in the UK. Although communication is transparent between them the use of ‘spotters’ is difficult to keep check of and using UK passports is somewhat uncomfortable. My objection is noted and I hope a new Labour government will ensure these people(male & female) are persona non grata and expelled back to Israel.
It may also be possible British intelligence knew about the planned attack on the Skripals and decided to allow it to happen in order to enact a planned campaign against Russia. This would account for the speed and unexpected coordination and competence of their response.
@KMG – “I can’t think about Salisbury now without imagining Patrick MacNee as John Steele driving his Bentley on an empty road from Salisbury to Porton Down, and Diana Rigg as Emma Peel walking into a Salisbury shop where she meets a character with a thick Russian accent played by John Hurt and a bumbling yet murderous clown played by Boris Johnson”
Yes, the British state’s propaganda to its home market in this matter has mostly been successful.
1) The word “novichok”. This has been well handled. It is a silly almost joky Russian word, as is immediately apparent to everyone who knows Russian. Although it may have appeared in an open paper or two that area accessible to enthusiasts, the word is not suitable, and it would not be used, as an official name for a military weapon.
But never mind – it’s got a “v” and a “k” in it, and it looks and sounds very “foreign” in English. Its second half begins and ends with unvoiced consonants, making it sound strong and vicious. (Compare with “Quisling”, in which the second half begins and ends with voiced consonants, giving an impression of weakness.) Whichever “creatives” prepared and delivered the pitch with this word in it, and probably also whoever it was at the Foreign Office that gave the okay, must surely have watched the episode of the TV series “Strike Back” in which “Novichok” was mentioned, first broadcast I think in November 2017. (Charles Shoebridge make a good point on this.) Or, of course, it was put into that programme with a later campaign in mind. In any case, British propagandists have done well with this one.
Don’t underestimate just how stupid some people are. Many punters in Britain – probably most people in the country – think as follows:
“The Russians are trying to look innocent, but scientists have identified the substance as NOVICHOK. Sounds Russian to me! They’ve been caught redhanded! The evidence is overwhelming! It’s not called ‘Algernon’ is it? It’s called ‘Novichok’! Russian, Russian, obviously Russian!”
Sure, people can put a bit of inconsequential cynicism towards a politician or two in there as well, or perhaps even some gallows humour. Propagandists want them to think they’re in control of their own minds. It’s called internalisation. This is how propaganda works.
There has been a Russian response on the word “novichok” – and more generally it is evident that the Russians on the propaganda side understand the importance of TV fiction – but the response hasn’t been heard in the British market at all.
2) Russian…spy…attempted murder…traditional idyllic English town. If you have ever been to Salisbury, you will know that its centre is dominated not by Morris dancers and people dressed as Shakespeare and Henry VIII making corn dollies, but by a huge Sainsbury’s. But never mind. British propagandists have done well with this highly-contrastive collection of elements too.
3) How will things play out with the football World Cup? I don’t know. The world could be very different by June and July. But the Brit poshboys are NOT going to want to appear to their home market as having taken away people’s right to watch a big sporting event on the TV.
Novi-joke.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/dutch-police-arrest-90-england-fans-amid-ugly-scenes-around-friendly-834064.html
It will have to be a good PR exercise from Boris to convince us that the English footy fans will be in mortal danger if they travel to Russia for the World Cup……. looks the other way around to me. If they keep behaving like that then the option of pulling England out won’t arise……….They’ll be kicked out before it starts!
….and imagine if Russia arrests 90 “innocent” English citizens.
Hi N_, nice post, but I feel you may be underestimating the intelligence of Joe Public. Plenty of people aren’t buying it. Hop on over the Daily Mail comments, if you can bear it, and you’ll see.
Good to see folks in the comments section on the Indy quote Craig and use his arguments yesterday. These powerful ideas spread – even if it’s only animated gifs of Corbyn’s ‘photoshopped’ hat going viral. Distrust in the establishment and its media is growing. For pretty obvious reasons. I can’t see where it will all end, but strongly feel we’re still on our journey into our Heart of Darkness.
That is a good post N_ .. exceptional insight Thank-you.
Novichok is not the official name at all. You’re right:it’s a jokey name.
These agents were developed under thr “FOLIANT” program. Literature around them was in the public domain(at least, interesting science without descriptions of their toxicity) up unto 1972. As for code names, they are called things like A-232 or A-234.
Others may call them “non-traditional agents” to separate them from G and V type nerve agents. But let’s not get hung up on naming here. These nerve agents exist. They are real, even if all the mythical attributes about them may not be.
From the Irish foreign ministry:
“The UK is Ireland’s closest neighbour and friend and we are in complete solidarity with the British government as they deal with the circumstances and consequences of this appalling attack. Ireland shares the UK and European Council assessment that it is highly likely that the Russian Federation is responsible and that there is no plausible alternative explanation. The use of chemical weapons in any circumstances is completely unacceptable.”
So it’s a “what the poshies say” there.
“As the (prime minister) has said this morning we will be considering next week whether it is appropriate for the Government to take additional measures in relation to the Russian Embassy in Dublin, in light of security considerations and in solidarity with the actions taken by the UK. Such actions are also under consideration by a large number of other EU Member States. I will be discussing this with the (prime minister) and the Minister for Justice and Equality over the coming days.”
And it’s “give us some money and we’ll do exactly what you want” there.
Certainly they’ll want to be “compensated” if they think they might lose their rake-offs from Russian moneylaundering in Dublin.
Now I’m wondering whether Russia gets called a “gangster state” and a “mafia state” much in Ireland? Wouldn’t that be rather like the pot calling the kettle black?
Perhaps I’m reading too much into an utterly forgettable and irrelevant press release. But together with what’s been said by other more influential countries, this suggests that further “justification” will be required (and supplied) for the steps that will be taken by Easter weekend. We should hang onto our hats.
What strikes me about both the British response and that from other EU countries is that it is so feeble.
We are supposed to be horrified by Russia crossing a line so terrible that nobody since the second world war has gone there. And then we are supposed to be satisfied with kicking out a few diplomats. But we don’t need to clamp down on Russian assets in this country, return their donations to the Tory party, ramp up sanctions or pull out of the World Cup, oh no, no need to go THAT far, darlings.
Just one of the many “things that make you go ‘hmmm'” about the whole farce.
I’m Irish and I am embarrassed by the position that the Irish Government is taking – along with France and other EU countries. I assume that it is a pragmatic quid pro quo for concessions in the Brexit negotiations.
Brexit is more important to Ireland than good relations with Russia.
Sometimes politics is grubby.
100% agree, as for our glorious leader’s (taoiseach/prime minister) and VVP’s view on the LGBT thing they probably 100% disagree, Leo is just a lickspittel any way.
@N, way to make friends and influence people.
Perhaps you could explain away the interview of Vladimir Uglev with Natalia Gevorkyan & Svetlana Reiter, that claims Russia have continued this program and he himself was involved in it? These reporters are former correspondent from Moscow News and Kommersant in the early 2000’s, and a reporter for opendemocracy.com.
He worked at the Volsk branch of GOSNIIOKHT, the State Scientific-Research Institute for Organic Chemistry and Technology until 1994.
– Why is Russia demanding that the British send a blood sample from the victims?
– From the remains of the chemical agents in the blood, it is possible, with the aid of various types of analyses, to determine where the specific dose was produced and by whom. I suspect that modern methods of analysis have even improved on what we had some 30 years ago.
Now the OPCW have taken their own blood samples expect the results in a week or so. This will categorically prove or disprove the source of the agent and whether the Russian state is directly or indirectly responsible.
“This will categorically prove or disprove the source of the agent and whether the Russian state is directly or indirectly responsible.”
.
No they won’t because they can’t.
England has already asked Russia to prove a negative.
This can’t be done.
Watson, look closely at the photo, there is a calendar – April 2011.)))
Sorry for the google translation.
It’s obvious that regardless of what the OPCW findings are, even if they trace the source to a particular lab in Russia, they will deny it, in the same way the Polonium poisoning was denied. The proof, I believe, will be ELINT based or video evidence of Mr Skripals car being tampered with.
These murders happen, both here and in Russia, however the outrage is based around the flouting of the treaty on chemical weapons most (including Russia) have signed up to, and the contamination that has risked lives.
“Perhaps you could explain away the interview of Vladimir Uglev with Natalia Gevorkyan & Svetlana Reiter”
The Bell is a tiny emigre online publication, it isn’t exactly first port of call for you average Russian, so it is like some intelligence source pointed The Bell in Vladimir Uglev’s direction. He apparently “retired” from State Service in 1994, there is no mention of a subsequent career and he certainly looks a lot younger than 83. So one explanation is he is disgruntled long-term unemployed scientist in need of some cash. The fact he claimed to have been the one who developed Novichoks and he was let go in 1994 does lend strong support to the Russian government’s claim they abandoned this line of research with the fall of the Soviet Union. I mean if it was still an active program why would they fire the guy who invented them?
“This will categorically prove or disprove the source of the agent and whether the Russian state is directly or indirectly responsible.”
I expect them to categorically prove it was A-234 (but we will see), whether they will go further and say there is evidence within the samples pointing to Russian manufacture, beyond its chemcial identity, is an interesting question.
All these international institutions have become completely politicised and rotted out. Remember the Syrian “nuclear reaction” – the site now lies completely in the US zone (lets be honest) of Syria, so there is nothing stopping them checking their previous work
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/19/how-syrian-nuke-evidence-was-faked/
“Dorjkhaidav told Kelley that all the samples taken from the ground in the vicinity of the bombed building had tested negative for man-made uranium and that the only sample that had tested positive had been taken in the toilet of the support building….. acknowledged in a commentary on his think tank’s website that the al-Kibar uranium particles had been “found in a changing room in a building associated with the reactor.”…..Former IAEA senior inspector Kelley said in an e-mail that a “very likely explanation” for this anomaly is that it was a case of “cross contamination’ from the inspector’s own clothing. Such cross contamination had occurred in IAEA inspections on a number of occasions, according to both Kelley and Rauf.”
Having said that, there are far too many whoopsies happening in these issues. Eventually one has to ask if some of these cross contamination incidents are accidental or intentional.
Not that I doubt that the Skripals have been poisoned with A-234, but that identification is as far as I will be trusting the OPCW’s verdict.
And Consortium news is a large news organization? ha ha ha
Try this then… https://news.sky.com/story/russias-novichok-programme-exists-i-worked-on-it-scientist-tells-sky-news-11300710
Catalonia. Remember Catalonia? The Spanish state is trying 25 Catalan leaders on trumped up charges.
Jeremy Corbyn tweeted about Catalonia the one time. Last year. To say ‘stop hitting people you nasty policemen’. Since then nothing from the Islington Saint. Francoists can do what they like. Power grabs, false charges, suppression of culture. Jeremy looks the other way. As long as the nasty policemen aren’t on the streets. Although it looks like they soon will be. What will the Blessed Jeremy say this time? Well, we know. ‘Stop hitting people’. Then it’ll be back to Carry On Rajoy.
The Tories are out to end democracy in Scotland. And, as is evidenced by their attitudes to Catalan democracy, Corbynites will be not be serious defenders.
Independence is Scotland’s only way forward.
The Powers Are Ours.
Catalunya Forever.
Reel guid your analysis of the Catalan situation is complete nonsense.
Boris Johnson compares himself to a jar of honey found on a supermarket shelf – ‘the product of many countries’. He thinks he is part J* *ish, part French, part English, part American, part pterodactyl and, unpredictably, part Turkish.
Boris’ paternal grandparents played a central role in his upbringing. He knows that his grandfather, ‘Johnny’, was the son of a Turkish journalist and politician who was ultimately kidnapped and lynched in the early 1920s, but knows little about his life, reputation and the circumstances of his death.
Boris’ half-French grandmother, ‘Granny Butter’, had always claimed to be of posh stock. Although Boris and his siblings have always been suspicious of this claim, they do recall their grandmother teaching them to eat crisps with a knife and fork.
Boris sets out to discover more about his roots in Turkey and the experiences of his great-grandfather, whose vocations were so similar to his own. He learns more about the political climate of his great-grandfather’s era in Turkey and discovers personal details about his life and death.
Returning to western Europe, Boris sets off in search of the truth about Granny Butter’s background, and follows an intriguing family trail that leads him to a surprising conclusion.
Find out how we did ithttp://www.bbc.co.uk/whodoyouthinkyouare/past-stories/boris-johnson.shtml
Undated but he looks much younger in the photo.
Variants of lying. ”Russians possibly involved” becomes ”Russia probably behind it. Very typical propaganda trick.
BTW, if Russians are involved, the probability of this being groups outside government control and knowledge must be very high (if you ask me). Perhaps more than 99%. The government can have no interest in such stuff going on, of course, destroying the reputation of the country, etc. This explains Russia’s natural/naive first response, declaring willingness to investigate. The British blunt demand for an explanation must have seemed very strange to them at first. (Before they realized that the British were primarily about russophobic propaganda for the masses, as usual) .
The Russians (they are humans, actually) must have been particularly disappointed in this case. Half a year ago they were proud (and relived) that they had managed to complete the destruction of immense and dangerous stockpiles of chemical weapons, without serious incidents. There was a TV documentary about this (on Discovery Channel?) a few years ago. It showed that for this task the Russians had build several high tech factories that were processing the stuff day and night for years, and under the eyes of international inspectors. Several years of processing remained at this point (when the documentary was made). A fantastic story really, and they had deserved the Nobel Peace Price for the effort & result, if you ask me. At the end they must have celebrated the completion of it, and I imagine they must have been congratulated by many foreign heads of state, etc. And then, a short time after, they are accused of using nerve gas on British soil! Kind of absurd, and really not primarily because the prestige some sport arrangement is in danger!
Absurd in their (and mine) eyes also the second part/alternative of PM May’s accusation in the British Parliament: That the ”Russian stock pile of chemical weapons”(!) may have been badly secured, and be so kind to give us an explanation within 2 days!! Is she totally ignorant? Greetings from Norway, and forgive my not very good English. Cheers, Olaf
What is a PsyOp?
This refers to a small debate, here , that is important to me.
Twostime thinks, a PsyOp is basicly a lie.
Firstly – and least important – this is simply wrong. Saying “it is highly likely, that …” is not a lie, it is a claim. As is “there is no plausible alternative explanation”. “Plausibility” has no objective measure, nor has likelihood outside a probabilistic, i.e. numerical context.
Therefore, secondly, a PsyOp is mostly a powerful – or should I better say “miightful”!? – claim by an authority that asks to be redeemed by the adressee by the might of the claimant to inflict prejudice or punishment.
We all know this as indispensable and unseperable means of educating and imposing disciplin.
But, thirdly, the difference between pedagogy and publicity / public information of a reigning military (political, economic, police) power – the difference between pedagogical duress and a “PsyOp” lies within the adressee . It is not the individual and it is not an audience in the sense of an entity of individuals, it’s the public as an entity in itself, an institution as opposed to the institution of the reigning military power.
Sorry to expand this triviality, as far as it is one, but a great deal of reflections in this blog reveal an inclination to forget about it in favour of a notion of “public opinion” that is both arrogant and humble, not to say submissive. To begin with the title of the piece I comment: Why shouldn’t Boris Johnson lie, since he claims within the act of lying the liberty to do so?!
He based this liberty on the authority and the powers of the Prime Minister, who didn’t literally lie but demanded lies by her allegiance, the price of denial being a government crisis at the least.
Please stop euphemizing, embellishing the condition of things, like you did with 7/7.
Tom,
By all means, seek to clarify detail – the significant difference here is that what is being said by HM gov is KNOWN to be false – and therein lies the great dilemma.
How exactly do any of us, singularly or collectively prove or establish that a lie is being intentionally perpetuated on us? We cannot. It is the intent that is the point not whether someone has claimed something – if that something is understood or interpreted by people as a lie.
Within each of us, if or when a message is given, it must first resonate or have resonance within anyone on the receiving end. As such, it is this ability to understand if what we are being told is a lie – rather than simply a claim.
HM gov knows full well is can only ‘claim’ as to intentionally lie would see them hung, drawn and quartered, not just by the Russians but by the people of the UK also.
Hence, they make claims – but claims which will be known and understood by all those making them are false.
” … would see them hung, drawn and quartered …” – Whom are you kidding? Sorry, I’ve got no rational or polite answer to this. Even (or also) Craig Murray has sacrificed, and vowed to sacrifice further, any logic and even the Conservation of Momentum, which enables him to walk along, to the narrative of Ali ben Laden and his 19 bandits.
Tom,
I consider it an honour to have my words compared to those of Craig – thank you!
“HM gov knows full well is can only ‘claim’ as to intentionally lie would see them hung, drawn and quartered, not just by the Russians but by the people of the UK also.”
Good comment SR, but with regards to the above paragraph, I think you overestimate the will of the people. Without the media at their backs, the government can quickly manufacture another head turning event, to take our minds of this one.
“overestimate”? – You can’t be serious. If I hat taken serious Sagittarius talk about “would see them hung, drawn and quartered”, which I did not, I would have answered:
If the ruling classes really “saw themselves” possibly “hung, drawn and quartered”, they would and could pull tight all bridges around their different castles, call in their hooraying bloodhounds and mow down the people to the hundreds of thousands or even millions, if need be.
You think, I live in a parallel world?
Think again. Since 1991, the US-invasion of Iraq, you live inside the castle. The empire killed something about 6 to 8 million people since then and destroyed the lives of another 150 to 200 millions. You can up the ante to 1 billion, if you count the damages done in Africa. Must I remind you to the masonry of the castle coming closer to you year by year?
Tom,
I don’t actually disagree with you. My words were not meant to be read in a literal sense – we are not fighting physical wars mostly but ideological ones. It is because the ruling elites understand that they do not have to turn the tanks on their own people, as this would be too obvious – that what they do instead is, in effect, patronise us to death – which is far more subtle, and far more difficult to challenge.
If tanks kill in a literal sense, when something is ideological, at first, you are not even sure if something is happening – assuming you are able to move past that, then understanding *what* happened, if anything, occurs et etc. It takes many years before any kind of pattern emerges when you realise that actually, you are not going mad at all.
The question then becomes – how to present a challenge to that which you know and understand to be in some instances, false, and in others – errant?
Republic,
re: overestimating the will of the people.
You may well be right about that. These are indeed most challenging times.
Now we are being subjected to claims by the Ministry of Truth, that Skripal’s “friends” claim that he (Skripal) had asked Putin if he could come home to Russia.
The innuendo by the Ministry of Truth is that Putin attempted to bump him off as a answer to his question. Yet Skripal spent years in a Russian prison, where Putin could’ve removed him easily.
Maybe Skripal felt that the British security services were intending to remove him, suspecting that Skripal had become a triple agent. They could then blame Putin in the process.
Meanwhile in the US, US Senate candidate Brian Ellison, wants to give homeless people, not food nor shelter, nor means to improve their lives, no he wants to give homeless people shotguns.
@krg’s comment:
“I do not believe that our intelligence services carried out the attack on the Skripals because if they had done so they would probably have left a slightly firmer, and more advanced, trail back to Russia. This looks more like the poisoning has been carried out by others (ironically, maybe even Russia) and the UK has decided to use it opportunistically”
.Yes, I believe you are right, the only way to prove that is to follow up and investigate the initial claim by Skripals’ family and friends (Viktoria Skripal and Tamara) that it was probably the mother in law who wanted to poison Julia, to prevent the forthcoming marriage between her and her son.
Brits found out about it and decided to use it to embarrass Russia and Putin before his election.
That would explain TM’s statements and Russian denial at the same time, both were telling the “truth”.
First step would be to identify Julia Skripal’s boyfriend and his mother (10 days and counting and so far zilch)
Anyone who has journalist friends, can you ask them to find out?>
“Anyone who has journalist friends, can you ask them to find out?>”
Journalists? Bloody hell Billy you’re optimistic.
I’m determined!
Good luck with that Billy. ?
Thanks, I have contacted the various journalists involved, including the Russian sources for the original interview and awaiting responses. https://vk.com/@mash-pochemu-vy-dumaete-chto-ubit-hoteli-imenno-ego-a-ne-doch-eks
Consider the “Russian” hacking of the Democratic National Committee meme. Veteran retired US intelligence professionals issued an analysis that the hack was in fact an insider leak from the Committee itself. This “Russian hack” meme is part of the overall anti-Russia campaign in the US.
From Consortium News report:
….” Forensic studies of “Russian hacking” into Democratic National Committee computers last year reveal that on July 5, 2016, data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computer. After examining metadata from the “Guccifer 2.0” July 5, 2016 intrusion into the DNC server, independent cyber investigators have concluded that an insider copied DNC data onto an external storage device.
Then-Director of National Intelligence James Clapper (right) talks with President Barack Obama in the Oval Office, with John Brennan and other national security aides present. (Photo credit: Office of Director of National Intelligence)
Key among the findings of the independent forensic investigations is the conclusion that the DNC data was copied onto a storage device at a speed that far exceeds an Internet capability for a remote hack. Of equal importance, the forensics show that the copying was performed on the East coast of the U.S. Thus far, mainstream media have ignored the findings of these independent studies [see here and here].
Independent analyst Skip Folden, who retired after 25 years as the IBM Program Manager for Information Technology, US, who examined the recent forensic findings, is a co-author of this Memorandum. He has drafted a more detailed technical report titled “Cyber-Forensic Investigation of ‘Russian Hack’ and Missing Intelligence Community Disclaimers,” and sent it to the offices of the Special Counsel and the Attorney General. VIPS member William Binney, a former Technical Director at the National Security Agency, and other senior NSA “alumni” in VIPS attest to the professionalism of the independent forensic findings.
The recent forensic studies fill in a critical gap. Why the FBI neglected to perform any independent forensics on the original “Guccifer 2.0” material remains a mystery – as does the lack of any sign that the “hand-picked analysts” from the FBI, CIA, and NSA, who wrote the “Intelligence Community Assessment” dated January 6, 2017, gave any attention to forensics…..”
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/
I have no time for Boris who lies as easily as breathing, however I feel here that the old saying – if it looks like coffee, smells like coffee and tastes like coffee it PROBABLY IS COFFEE! It is difficult to imagine that any other country would have a motive for murdering a former agent.
” It is difficult to imagine that any other country would have a motive for murdering a former agent.” – Well this is not all the way off the mark. Former agents of other countries tend to suicide, especially if there are british courts to establish suicide against all evidence, Sir.
apart from Julia Skripal’s Mother in law of course…
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/cops-think-poison-hidden-in-gift-to-skripal-daughter/news-story/4a707f8a81df2cb13dc9f7ad482c5ae1
https://5hotnews.com/2018/03/14/media-skripal-poisoned-invalid-mother-in-law-julia/
Perhaps she got it via Uglev or Rink
https://thebell.io/en/the-scientist-who-developed-novichok-doses-ranged-from-20-grams-to-several-kilos/
a) what motive does Russia have for showering itself in the brown stuff on the eve of showcasing ‘the New Russia’ this summer?
b) what motive do Russia’s relentless antagonists have for discrediting Russia, particularly at this time?
Indeed.
Who said it looks like coffee? Oh yes Boris Johnson, and what did you say about Johnson again?
“if it looks like coffee, smells like coffee and tastes like coffee it PROBABLY IS COFFEE! It is difficult to imagine that any other country would have a motive for murdering a former agent”…Hmm
That is enough for suspicion, but not for accusation.
It’s the other way around. I would find it very hard to believe that Russia had any motive whatsoever to kill this person at this point in time.
Makes absolutely no sense.
An interesting Russian piece on Skirpal’s past. There’s also a comment from a Russian expert regarding why Skirpal and his daughter are still alive. Nerve agent would have killed them unless they were given an antidote, to have given them an antidote they would have to have known what they were poisoned with in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dr9PLZfULs
Skirpal and his daughter are only still alive because they are being kept in an induced coma on life support machines.
Induced coma’s don’t keep people alive who have been subject to military grade nerve agent.
You know one of the most deadly nerve agents known to man was used. Well according the British government it was, yet Skripal and his daughter survived, but we have no piccy of them and even less info.
If Russia is as guilty as the British government makes them out to be, it would be tally ho! And full throttle ahead with the evidence.
But it isn’t, its a slow innuendo based campaign of overwhelmingly likely, no other alternative but Russia type of propaganda.
Then we have the disgraceful and embarrassing Foreign secretary comparing Russia (Olympics 1936-World Cup 2018) with Nazi Germany.
Boris Johnson is a loud mouthed fool who could, and probably has damaged relations with the UK around the globe.
Life support machines do, life support machines keep people alive who would die in a matter of minutes without them.
Ref. plse Fred.
Mr. Skripal is a traitor so we shouldn’t have much sympathy for him, frankly. He probably should have been put to death when the Russians first convicted him of treason.
All this pretend sympathy for a traitor is just bizarre in the extreme.
Yes, and wasn’t David Cameron happy to take out British traitors with a drone strike? But I suppose that was okay because he’s one of the good guys…
I see the usual suspects are playing the antisemitism card again against Corbyn over some piece of street art.
I wonder if JC’s accusers will also condemn the works of Shakespeare, Dickens, H.G Wells, Anthony Trollope, George Eliot and Roald Dahl. All of them have been accused of antisemitism.
The legendary playwright David Mamet goes one step further by saying the whole of Britain is antisemitic.
As context, here is a useful study of the issue of antiS, in English Translation from the French.
https://archive.org/details/Anti-semitismItsHistoryAndCausesByBernardLazare
Here’s some of the text
http://solargeneral.org/wp-content/uploads/library/anti-semitism-its-history-and-causes-bernard-lazare.pdf
It’s fairly clear that everything from the nerve poison attack to the Owen smith nonsense has been a massive confection in order to once again get Corbyn. I have no proof but a hunch who is responsible. I’d say it’s the work of Mark Regev at the colonial Palestinian embassy
A US interview with Jewish Voice for Labour on antisemitism and party suspensions:
http://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/antisemitism/a-jvl-inspired-comment-on-antisemitism-and-the-labour-party/
Why not a similar UK interview?
JVL have been great regarding the fight against FOI’s fight against the left.
They were absolutely brilliant at last year’s conference.
So several EU countries are going to kick Russian diplomats back to Moscow in time for Easter.
Any word from Switzerland?
*wink*
Not surprisingly, “several EU countries” comprises France and a bunch of East European countries bordering Russia, who’ve been known forever as obsessively hating Russia. I should think Macron is being diplomatic, while at the same time no doubt privately reassuring Putin…..
All EU members, including Germany, agreed to pull the EU ambassador out of Moscow. Give them a week. Or maybe until shortly after the OPCW reports. If there isn’t war, and the OPCW report phuts out, then that will be the end of Britain as a diplomatic force. But war is far more likely.