The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has issued a statement to refute my report from well-placed FCO sources that the British government continually re-uses the phrase “of a type developed by Russia” because its own scientists refused government pressure to say the nerve agent was made by Russia, and as getting even agreement to “of a type developed by” was bloody, the government has to stick to precisely that rather odd choice of phrase.
This is the official British Government statement:
“We have no idea what Mr Murray is referring to. The Prime Minister told MP’s on Monday that world leading experts at Porton Down had positively identified this chemical agent. It is clear that it is a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia. None of that is in any doubt”.
Which is perhaps the most hilarious fail in the history of refutation.
The BBC sprung that statement on me during a live interview on Radio 5 last night. They also sprung on me a statement by the Israeli Embassy and were attempting to lead me into accusing Israel of the attack. But even the BBC interviewer, Stephen Nolan, was flummoxed by the rubbish he had been given from the FCO. Here is an extract from that part of the interview:
Stephen Nolan: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office have said to us tonight: “We have no idea what Mr Murray is referring to. The Prime Minister told MP’s on Monday that world leading experts at Porton Down had positively identified this chemical agent. It is clear that it is a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia. None of that is in any doubt”. Well, you’ve already covered that Craig and you are zoning in on the fact that they are saying “developed by Russia”, they are unable to say whether it’s made – well they are not saying whether it was actually manufactured in Russia or the source of it or whether it was from Russia, right?”
Craig Murray Yes, exactly. No-one doubts that the Russians had the idea of making these things first, and worked on developing the idea. It has always been doubted up till now that they really succeeded. The Iranians succeeded under OPCW supervision some time ago and the chemical formulae were published to the whole world twenty years ago. So many states could have done it. The “of a type developed by Russia” thing means nothing, undoubtedly.
You can hear the whole interview here beginning about 5 minutes in.
@Craig – They clearly have not got a leg to stand on. They could not answer your point.
If you get interviewed again, you must fiurther mention that a consultant medic at the Salisbury hospital who specialises in emergency medicine wrote to the Times four days after the attack to say that NO patients had shown symptoms of nerve agent poisoning.
That was after Theresa May had said the exact opposite.
He and the prime minister cannot both be telling the truth.
Stephen appears to be a man for whom telling lies to “justify” a major war in which hundreds of thousands or millions of people could die is a step too far. He presumably also wishes to stay out of the dock in the event of war crimes trials. Such are among the people we should all be encouraging right now – and indeed other people with similar moral lines, if any exist, at the Foreign Office, in MI6, in the army, in the police, anywhere in public service.
Here is Stephen Davies’s letter to the Times:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-retaliation-against-russia-s-actions-p5hmpj8jh
*************
Sir, Further to your report (“Poison exposure leaves almost 40 needing treatment”,
Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent
poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant
poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned
that they may have been exposed. None has had symptoms of poisoning and
none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no
abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.
Stephen Davies
Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust
(emphasis added)
*************
And in a similar way to how the Foreign Office responded to your criticism of their mendacious use of the phrase “of a type developed in Russia”, this is how the Times reported the letter – by deliberate selective quoting out of context:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-salisbury-poison-fears-allayed-by-doctor-vf9v0zg0m
***********************
In a letter to The Times Dr Davies writes that no patients experienced symptoms
other than the three with “significant poisoning”. “Several people have attended the
emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed,” he adds.
“None has had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood
tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been
contaminated by the agent involved.”
***********************
Correction: it was TWELVE days after the attack that Mr Davies wrote that letter, not FOUR.
Letter written on 16th but poisoning occurred on the 4th.
Presumably not knowing what the poison agent was (maybe still don’t) nerve agent had to be a contender but I understand that symptoms of nerve agent poisoning are not difficult to recognise.
By day 4 I think they would be able to say symptoms of nerve agent poisoning were present or not.
Doesn’t make sense Salisbury Doc saying this was not nerve agent poisoning and Porton Down scientists saying it was
(NB Porton Down got a £43 mill bung and their scientists are more subject to the official secrets act and odd suicides than run of the mill health workers)
Reports suggesting nerve agent was not involved include Health Warnings to wash hands with baby wipes and put cloths through the laundry if yo u were in the immediate area AND not one single person in Salisbury presented with nerve agent poisoning symptoms AND eventually the hospital got fed up with people arriving and saying they felt a bit poorly and that they thought they had been effected so these people were told to fuck off without examination.
4 days 12 days who cares? Well Mrs May and Boris might. How are they going to lie their way out of this?
It was £48m not £43m
https://www.ft.com/content/d78f43fc-27b0-11e8-b27e-cc62a39d57a0
Of course there is no money as we keep being told by them.
I think before relying too heavily on the wording of that letter, it would be prudent to try to get some independent confirmation out of Dr Davies or the hospital. It wouldn’t be the first time a poorly worded letter led to suspicions that just backfire on those raising them.
A careful formula such as “we need an explanation of why consultant Stephen Davies wrote that….” would be wise if mentioning it.
Whatever the truth is, Davies will now be under immense pressure with the highest of possible stakes, and it would be understandable if he were to put out a statement saying that he had mis-written, whether he did or not. I could imagine him saying that he had meant to write that nobody apart from the three serious cases had experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning.
Sorry to repeat myself (I’ve posted this already) but there is no conspiracy involving the consultant. Please don’t try to contact him… I think that would make a lot of people on this site look like the stereotype of conspiracy theorist loonies.
His letter is entirely based on a mistake printed in The Times about 38 people showing ‘symptoms’ of poisoning. He’s saying that none of them had symptoms of nerve gas poisoning other than the three we already know about.
The technique of word play is obviously very much part of the armamentarium here. Listen to the interview of Andrew Marr with Vladimir Chizov and then look at how it is reported:
BBC ” Russia spy row: UK lab could be poison source, says ambassador”
Politico ” Russian ambassador says UK lab could have poisoned ex-spy”
and so on
But listen to what he had to say, not the same thing, he ends up by saying: I don’t know, I don’t even no whether anything has been administered, or words to that effect.
https://twitter.com/MarrShow/status/975305926310748160
My understanding is that the Russian consulate have been given no information about Yulia Skripal’s condition or status whatsoever. Assuming they have asked for information – and the Russian judiciary have opened a case – then if she is alive, conscious and in fit state, the British authorities would have to ask her whether she is prepared to have a consular visit.
If she is dead, then wouldn’t they have to allow Russian presence at a postmortem or at least access to full information from an examination?
And if she is alive and not in a fit state, then say so.
The prime minister says she has suffered nerve agent poisoning. The consultant medic at the hospital says she hasn’t. Subpoena both of them now.
Habeas corpus.
Just to confirm, the Russian investigative committee have opened a case.
http://www.rapsinews.com/news/20180316/282219171.html
Craig, I will send you a transcript tonight if no one else has.
We owe you a debt of gratitude Craig for exposing this pile of shit. Now that the roof has fallen in on the Tory’s hysterical claims, how can the government extricate itself from the hideous mess? Perhaps we need a diversion?
Wise words from a wise man who has seen it all over decades.
“#SkripalCase is a carefully-constructed drama in order to justify the actions of NATO against Russia” – @johnpilger
RT
https://twitter.com/city_affairs/status/975298614330298368
Here’s an mp3 recording of the interview for download, with the rest of the show cut out.
http://anonfile.com/zeqdQddbb0/180318CraigMurrayInterview.mp3
Thanks very much for the recording. I don’t have BBC iPlayer Radio and won’t register with the BBC to get it so I was blocked by that route. Thanks again.
Thanks for the editing, the file has now been added to archive.org at-
https://archive.org/details/CraigMurrayOnBbcRadio5RegardingSkripalAndNovichoks180318
That’s funny – when I tried to download my internet security stopped it – a high alert intrusion attempt by newstarads.com
This was the link supplied by SilkunderBoournes
Was the poison or whatever delivered in an aluminum tube of some kind made in Russia?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_aluminum_tubes
On Blair’s Dodgy Dossier the Sun, subsequently carried the headline “Brits 45mins from doom”, while the Daily Star reported “Mad Saddam ready to attack: 45 minutes from a chemical war”, helping to create the impression among the British public that Iraq was a threat to Britain. Not forgetting the Condoleezza Rice warning of a Mushroom Cloud over the US.
Here is the interview portion of the programme:
* Archive.org – main page (will stay up permanently): https://archive.org/details/17032018StephenNolanCraigMurrayBBCRadio5LiveNerveAgentAttributionToRussia
* Archive.org – direct links:
1) https://archive.org/download/17032018StephenNolanCraigMurrayBBCRadio5LiveNerveAgentAttributionToRussia/17-03-2018%20Stephen%20Nolan%2C%20Craig%20Murray%20-%20BBC%20Radio%205%20live%20-%20Nerve%20agent%20attribution%20to%20Russia.m4a (~19MB, m4a, aac stream lossless copy)
2) https://archive.org/download/17032018StephenNolanCraigMurrayBBCRadio5LiveNerveAgentAttributionToRussia/17-03-2018%20Stephen%20Nolan,%20Craig%20Murray%20-%20BBC%20Radio%205%20live%20-%20Nerve%20agent%20attribution%20to%20Russia.mp3 (~19MB, converted mp3, most compatible format)
* Mirror (may not stay up forever): https://vocaroo.com/i/s1zVzgkcimq3
It seems that they are so dumb as to believe repeating the same stupid statement changes its meaning! The worrying thing seems to be that the public is easily duped.
There are no grounds for concluding this was a Russian state attack.
But let’s not be duped even by the assertion that a nerve agent “of a type developed in Russia”, or of any other type, was used. Very great doubt is hanging over that assertion, when a consultant medic at the hospital said 12 days after the attack that nobody had shown signs of nerve agent poisoning.
The prime minister and the consultant medic cannot both be telling the truth.
I repeat: the Russian government should apply to subpoena both of them now to a habeas corpus hearing, and do it in public.
Your interpretation of Stephen Davies’ letter is incorrect when you say “nobody had shown signs of nerve agent poisoning.” when what he actually wrote was: ” and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning.”
Note he said ‘poisoning’ which could mean a multitude of agents!
Doesn’t the BBC get very defensive when accused of being a propaganda outlet for this government? Methinks they do protest too much. And the interviewer honed in on Israel and tried to make out that Craig Murray was accusing them. Another ploy of the BBC to try and make it seem antisemitic. They often get away with it when speaking to those less eloquent and informed as Craig Murray.
When the BBC paint a Russian hat on Jeremy Corbyn’s head and then paste an image of St Basil’s Cathedral in Moscow’s Red Square behind him, what else can we call it but Tory party propaganda? The BBC is just as much part of the Tory media as the Sun, the Daily Mail, or the Telegraph.
It’s the BBC line.
May – Strong and Stable.
Corbyn – Wrong and Sable.
It’s very odd that so much of the public still believes that Russia is a communist state. I would have thought it was more accurate to label Putin hard right than hard left – that’s why the French FN love him, n’est-ce pas?
The BBC has always been a propaganda outlet.
As John Reith, then general manager of the BBC (later first director general), confided to his diary during the General Strike (1926): “The Cabinet … want to be able to say that they did not commandeer us, but they know they can trust us not to be really impartial… Since the BBC was a national institution, and since the government in this crisis was acting for the people… the BBC was for the government in the crisis too.”
Source M. Gurevitch. Culture Society and the Media. (1982)
Was the policeman, who is in hospital, the person who administered the poison?
It’s possible. The policeman Nick Bailey’s movements have been unaccounted for. Reportedly he gave first aid in the park and became ill. Then it came out that others who had been on the scene, such as a medic, were in close contact with one or both of the Skripals and didn’t get ill. So it was said that Bailey had been to the house. Why on earth he would go to the house has not been made clear.
I have no idea where he went, what he did, or what happened to him. But it could be that the reason he’s in the hospital is to keep his trap shut.
The policeman was poisoned on vsiting Sergei Skripal’s house. Not clear in what circumstances. None of the people who intervened to help was poisoned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Skripal
You miss the point that police officer Nick Bailey reportedly helped the Skripals in the park (source), as well as going to the house. Do you have a non-suspicious scenario for his movements?
Moreover, none of the three died instantly as was supposed to happen with a nerve agent 10 times as potent as Sarin or is it VX?
No truer words said in jest, as it reads in another blog called The Slog, that he is CID officer.
Nobody seems to be asking about the crime scene and the time line in respect of this matter.as there seems to be some major inconsistencies.
Where and when did the Skripals come into contact with the toxin?
Was the toxin planted in Ms Skripal’s suitcase as has been suggested, in which case the crime was enacted in Russia.
My concern with this theory is that it lends weight to the suggestion that the real target was Yulia Skripal and the perpetrator(s) had no thought of customs checks on the luggage of the daughter of a convicted traitor.either at the Russian end or London. The Russian state could certainly give the nod to airport officials in Moscow to leave things alone but how could they know that the luggage would not be searched at Heathrow?
Accepting the theory however takes possible contamination up to 24 hours earlier than their collapse to Yulia’s arrival at Heathrow or at least the point when her suitcase was opened.
It seems reasonable to assume that as they collapsed in the park; unconscious and “frothing at the mouth”, they must have come into contact with the toxin at about the same time during the 24+ hours Yulia had been in England.
Between parking the car in Sainsbury’s at 1.45pm and the 4.15 pm report of them both slumped on a bench, there are 2 1/2 hours when they were apparently already contaminated but able to walk to the pub and then the restaurant without apparent ill effect.
To explain this, it has been suggested the toxin, Novicho, is slow acting and supporting this train of thought, there have been extensive investigation of not only the Skripal’s car but the tow truck that removed the car from Sainsbury’s.
How then did the toxin become so fast acting in regard to the two police officers, and particularly D.S.Nick Bailey investigating their collapse in the park?
The question here is where and how did the Skripals become infected, remotely by something planted in Russia or by some third party, so far unmentioned and unseen
The murder of Kim Jong-nam was swift and covered by ccyv. The murder of Georgi Markov was swift and although he did not die for three days he was aware of the poison umbrella incident which resulted in his death. More recently. while Litvinenko also suffered a slow death from polonium poisoning, was able to trace back to a fatal cup of tea.
In all three cases the weapons employed were targeted at an individual and required one or assassins to carry out the attack.
There are too many questions left unasked for comfort and an apparent determination by the Government, to avoid finding the answers, initially by challenging those that ask the questions..
It’s becoming increasingly obvious that
1. No nerve agent was deployed
2. There are no ‘victims’; although by making people panic about potential exposure to a nerve agent the conspirators in this game created a flow of people attending hospital which will have proven useful in establishing in the minds of some at that hospital that they were dealing with a real event.
3. The poor trade craft in executing this plan suggests it was put together quickly.
“No victims” is incorrect. According to the Salisbury hospital consultant, Mr Stephen Davies, in his letter to The Times, three people suffered “significant poisoning”.
Julia, do you have the full content of the letter to the Times. All newspaper reports seem to have reported it on 16th March. This I think was the day after the interview with Alexander Yakovenko, Russian ambassador to the UK, who said:
“Another concern for Russia in the Skripal case is the fact that the whole investigation has been classified. “Nobody saw even the pictures of these people in a hospital [Skripal and his daughter Yulia] – whether they are alive or maybe they are in good health. Nobody talked to the doctors. There is absolutely no transparency in the case,” the diplomat stated.”
I had noticed more than a week earlier that this was the strangest reporting of a high profile poisoning. A copy of the full letter would be useful. Was the letter phoned, emailed in or sent be snail-mail? It seems like a knee-jerk response to a measured observation. But without seeing the whole letter it is hard to say.
“No victims” is correct. It is the way MSM have reported it taking a sentence to give a false impression. Find the letter and you will see.
Surely the hospital/hospitals which dealt with the principal ‘victims’ and those otherwise exposed to this deadly material would have had to be closed immediately to undergo appropriate decontamination procedures. There are so many holes in this story it is quite incredible the MSM have managed to so effectively establish the narrative as presented.
By the way, is there any info on your side of the Pond anent Col. Skirpal being tapped for assistance by Christopher Steele for his “Pee Dossier” project? A little tidying up here?
See Ruth Davidson really going after Craig aka Mike Moseley inThe Telegraph for doing Putin’s dirty work in the hope of ultimately replacing May as PM at Westminster.
Lets not forget cash for access, as Ruth was bought for £20, 000 pounds by a Russian (friendly with Putin) oligarchs wife.
Nor the £800,000 pounds given by shady Russian businessmen as donations to the Tory party.
But lets not mention that, its not a type produced by Russia, or overwhemingly likely, as uttered by Boris Johnson.
Two things about the phrase “military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia” (those are the words used by Theresa May in the House of Commons).
1) As everyone is saying, “of a type” doesn’t mean the Russian state made the weapon used or that they carried out the attack.
2) Another thing: under the table the phrase conveys the assumption that a military-grade nerve agent was used (the “topic”) and then we have the adjectival phrase “of a type developed by Russia” (the “comment”). But to judge from that letter by the consultant medic at the hospital, it doesn’t seem that a nerve agent was used. Perhaps fentanyl was used. Perhaps just something to give the Skripals some ordinary food poisoning or make them vomit, go woozy, panic a bit, and pee themselves – which I am sure can be achieved by a large number of substances that have no lasting ill effect.
N.
The key is of course Porton Down scientists, and their reticence to say that it was Russian. I’m sure Theresa May and Boris Johnson know the implications of intimating that it was Russia without proof. Yet they continue to do so.
RoS
As in utter rubbish?
Giyane.
Yes.
Bodgers is at it again this morning, attempting to gaslight us into war with Russia.
Perhaps the only component of the British political establishment to have spoken on this matter with rationality, integrity and honesty is Jeremy Corbyn, although it grieves me to say so.
bliss_porsena
Why does it grieve you that Corbyn comes out well? Faced with the prospect of Hillary Clinton winning, her own Party leaked against her, now the UK is facing bankruptcy at the hands of an extermely narrow clique of right-wing fantasists, viz Johnson, Fox, Rees-Morgue who have refused to engage with the realities facing business interests. Before the outset of the Brexit referendum , Craig predicted it would never happen. This cabinet has been shown up to be 100% bonkers. The only way for UK business interests to reverse Mrs May’s Bonkers Hard Brexit is to change the government. Don’t worry, everything has been arranged.
The “vice chair of youth” of the Conservative Party is still unsacked after having to retract a categorical statement he made a month ago that the Leader of HM Opposition had been a traitor to his country. The Secretary of State for Defence also stated that Corbyn was a traitor.
There is no evidence that these people have any respect for the truth. Not to mention Johnson and Davis, who have frequently been caught out lying, and the disgraced Fox.
Even the reowned journalist John Pilger has called the Skripal event, “A carefully constructed drama, as part of the propaganda campaign, that’s been building against Russia, by Nato and Britain.”
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dxRiG8vRRBk
The only thing Pilger is renowned for is being a useful idiot for whoever has been in power in Moscow since the late 1960s
Yeah, I’ll give you that Westlake, that Pilger doesn’t criticise Russia enough. However you’ve got admit when it comes to Western/Australian machinations he’s on the money.
Food shortages in Birmingham:
“Stores run out of bread and milk as Beast from the East 2 sweeps in | Shelves stripped of
basic essentials as latest snow storm arrives”
Food shortages in many areas of Britain:
“‘Manic’ shoppers clear shelves in panic buying frenzy with ‘mini Beast from the East’ set to bring 25cm of snow | Panicked shoppers cleared supermarket shelves of bread and milk as the ‘mini Beast from the East’ brought chaos to Britain..”
And NATO have named a Russian nuclear missile “Satan 2”. The Russian name is “Sarmat” – hardly difficult to pronounce for English tongues. The British media are of course calling it “Satan 2”.
A major war is being prepared – this is very clear.
The snow will have melted by Wednesday, panic shopping really shows how divorced from reality the UK population now is….
Ask why the snow is being reported the way it is.
I know the media always talk of “crisis”, but it’s been different this time, with the army lorries, the biblical-style personification, and all against a background of looming war, as communicated to various markets by different kinds of newspaper.
Even on the offchance that there is no major war, it’s an open secret that there will be major problems bringing the harvest in this year, now fewer Poles are here because of the Beast of Brexit. “Normal life” is far more precarious than many who are comfortably off believe.
N_
I think you’ll find the Revelations biblical personification of evil was a political metaphor for the decline of Roman influence, Rome being the superpower of the time. Earlier versions like Jeremiah, were using whoredom as a metaphor for the people abandoning their faith, resulting in problems such as the Captivity as a punishment. All of this is highly relevant to the British Empire finally yielding to reality that we are a nasty perfidious little nation with no respect for the truth.
Difficult weather systems will obviously be visited upon us because of our disobedience to our rejected government. it is also good for the germination of seeds and for killing off bugs.
Why do you say “the UK population”? Do you say “the Fifth Republic population” for people living in France?
Johnson said this morning:
“We actually have evidence within the last ten years that Russia has not only been investigating the delivery of nerve agents for the purposes of assassination, but has also been creating and stockpiling Novichok.”
He is the foreign secretary so i would expect this to be true.
where?
Perhaps he could deposit that evidence with OPCW so that that body could confront Putin, having overseen apparent destruction of Russia’s CWs by 2017?
Perhaps he can say how long they have had this evidence, and if they have had it for more than a week, why they didn’t mention it in the last week? Even if valid it wouldn’t constitute proof that the substance allegedly used in Salisbury is of Russian origin, though might point the finger more strongly inthat direction. (I think in view of the consultants letter in the Times we should all say allegedly for the time being). We also have to ask why they didn’t bring in this expert from the OPCW straightaway.
Perhaps I could share with our foreign sounding blogger that I was commenting as a skeptic, not as a supporter?
Blogs do not convey tone of voice (skeptical, sarcastic etc)…..
“He is the foreign secretary so i would expect this to be true.”
The above sentence is sarcasm right?
“He is the foreign secretary so i would expect this to be true.”
‘The above sentence is sarcasm right?’
Not entirely – the stakes in making lies like this, if they are lies, are high.
I would not expect it to be true, although clearly they are realising that they have to develop a counter-narrative to the revalation that is all over the web, which is making people skeptical of an open and shut case against the Russian state.
The ‘evidence’ of this (previously undisclosed) secret CW program in Russia will not be released for years, inquiry, fudge, safe pair of hands, we know the score.
It would be expected that the SoS at the FCO believed this to be true, based on briefing by officials.
Cabinet Ministers are not investigative journalists, nor are they qualified weapons-grade chemists.
So the question is whether the Minister is a duped patsy, a wink-wink protagonist or a mouthpiece of insufficient intellectual curiosity to interrogate the picture being painted for him….
Boris Johnson comes from a class of society that was physically and sexually abused from childhood. You have to think of them like victims of sexual abuse. What they say may not always make sense, but if you keep an open mind you can understand how they were able to cover up the truth for so long. The trappings of power is the only compensation for these deeply troubled old Etonians. It’s sad but he’s a compulsive liar. Our sympathy is required, but in no circumstances should he be believed when he is towing the official line.
@Giyane – He was one of the bullies when he reached his last few years at Eton. He’s got it written all over him. He may for all I know have been bullied when he was younger than that.
He wife-swapped with Cameron. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. politicians are not born, they are made. Extra-ordinary rendition is designed to create a heartless politicians out of human-beings. First crack them physically and feed them psychotic drugs, then rape their women folk.
I keep going back to Kissinger who said ‘ some people confuse covert operations with social work’.
He knew what he was talking about.
Another blonde thug, a bully and a liar.
Darius, Boris and a blast from the past
A convicted fraudster and self-confessed ‘potential psychopath’, Darius Guppy has long been a source of embarrassment for his old friend, Boris Johnson. Now a tape has come to light in which the pair discuss beating up a journalist
BY Andy McSmith |
30 March 2009
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/darius-boris-and-a-blast-from-the-past-1658043.html
A good choice for one of the highest offices of state.
Johnstone said “We actually have evidence ….” [….] He is the foreign secretary so i would expect this to be true.
There is good evidence and there is bad evidence and there is being economical with the actualité. Ask Bill Clinton about the latter.
Someone should (no-one will) ask Johnson, when did the UK gov got this info?
Also ask, has the UK gov tried to bring this matter to the attention of the OPCW over in the intervening time, as it is mandated to do when there is knowledge of breaches of the CWC ?
Craig, I appreciate your efforts in this sordid matter but I have a problem with your previous post:
“Iran succeeded in synthesising a number of novichoks. Iran did this in full cooperation with the OPCW and immediately reported the results to the OPCW so they could be added to the chemical weapons database.”
So why is there no reference to any of this on the OPCW website? (search terms: “Iran” and “novichok”).
To be clear – I have not the slightest doubt that Iran strictly adheres to the OPCW rules since during the horrible Iraq-Iran war tens of thousands of Iranian soldiers were “gassed” (thanks to German supplies with US approval) and many of them died a horrible death but just pointing to this ominous website (with no corroboration) as proof that “novichok” was actually produced is not good enough.
“Novichok” is a fantasy name invented by Mirzayanov. The real code-names are “A 230″, A 232” etc. Mirzayanov stated that “A230″ is 5-8 times more poisonous than VX .. it’s impossible to cure people exposed to it.”
http://www.cbrneworld.com/_uploads/download_magazines/09_summer_The_agent_fate_of_Novichok.pdf
If this is true, this stuff could not possibly have been used in Salisbury so we need no longer waste our time dealing with “novichok”.
Mirzayanov also states that this class of “nerve agents” is different: it is not a phosphonate but a phosphate, like most commercially produced pesticides and this is the reason why the precursors are not listed on OPCW “scheduled chemicals”. In other words: the precursors can be produced in any agrochem factory – no surprise since pesticides are basically also (less potent) “nerve-agents”.
I think we should concentrate our research more on the MOTIVES of the British govt (+ NATO partners in crime) for the excessive demonization of Russia and look at the Syrian context:
What is the connection between HMG / MI 6 and the “Muslim Brotherhood”? Thierry Meyssan has an interesting article about the synthetic “rebels” in Ghouta and their links to MI6:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article200163.html
“All of these groups and countless others have well-designed flags and logos as well as quality videos. All of this communication material is manufactured by the United Kingdom. In 2007, it had a war propaganda unit, the Research Information and Communications Unit (RICU) headed by MI6 (Secret Service) officer JONATHAN ALLEN. Starting from the chemical weapons case in the summer of 2013, the RICU financed an external company to assist the communication of combatants in Syria (and subsequently those of Yemen). It was initially Regester Larkin, then Innovative Communications & Strategies (InCoStrat). Both companies are headed by an MI6 officer, Colonel PAUL TILLEY.
Jonathan Allen, whose rank we do not know, has become number two in the UK permanent representation at the United Nations. He is currently leading the Security Council against Russia and Syria.”
So Mr. Allen, pontificating at the UNSC about the evil deeds of Russia has organized the PR for the head-choppers in Syria? You can’t make this stuff up …
What is your take?
Cassandra
Victims of military waterboarding who suffer from premature hair-colour loss are issued with standard restorative hair dyes. Jonathon Allen, Alex Younger. Mrs May’s will be issued soon.
Can’t comment on the OPCW database but this artcicle gives more info
http://www.spectroscopynow.com/details/ezine/1591ca249b2/Iranian-chemists-identify-Russian-chemical-warfare-agents.html
and seems to concur that they were added to the Chemical Weapons database.
C. Very interesting Voltairenet post. Thx for heads up. The MB have a long history. Hassan al-Banna’s path was smoothed by Lord Cromer and, later, the MB reached an understanding with the House of Saud in the 1930s. MB has been a useful tool in some countries’ foreign policies and regional strategies. The Syrian branch of the MB is a nasty one and reportedly circulated in and out of Iraq interfacing with the AQinIraq types. A research unit at West Point has placed a lot of product into Open Source mode. For example,
https://www.files.ethz.ch/isn/45910/CTCForeignFighter.19.Dec07.pdf
That is 2007. It is unlikely that the US and the UK are not well informed about the present moderate “opposition” etal. in Syria.
Another nice example of how media falsify the meaning by replacing and rotating words.
Sick Journalismus!
1. Putin obviously did this to get get caught. The media has so far failed to explain the title for tat that would occur and what Putin gets out of this. Sowing discord is the technique of the West, just look too the Guardian.
2. I do hope Irans ability to make this weapon doesn’t mean we will soon end up seeing it’s use in Ghouta. That, would be, just beyond words.
Let the circus continue.
Obviously. It’s also obvious he hasn’t been caught, so he obviously didn’t do it to get caught,; he must have not done it because he has other things to do.
If he were doing it, it would likely be to send a message to either dissident oligarchs or junior NATO partners: this is what I can do if I choose to.
Strange to destroy all CWs through OPCW beforehand, if States were being warned…..easier to make a little batch to bump off oligarchs…..
Here is the audio recording ready to be preserved for posterity:
httpsdrive.google.comopenid=1e6-I7LJGfkAfPfOZ6Sa8JE-_MK0llZ9U
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1e6-I7LJGfkAfPfOZ6Sa8JE-_MK0llZ9U
Boris Johnson is now saying (front page of the Guardian site) that Russia has been stockpiling nerve agent over the last decade, when the exact opposite has actually happened – the OPCW have destroyed all of Russia’s chemical weapons, including those at at the chemical weapons facility at which Novichok was alleged to have been developed.
Typing ‘Novichoks do not exist’ into a search engine reveals on Page 1 the endearingly titled http://www.sciencemadness.org website, one of whose threads is four pages worth of fairly technical chemical discussions around the Novichok agents. Not being a professional chemist, I cannot comment on the accuracy of what is found there, but as an ex professional acientist I understand it sufficiently to say broadly:
1) Betwen 2006 and 2008, various thread entries discuss specific chemical compounds reputed to be Novichoks.
2) Various threads allude to published/patented chemical reactions to produce specific precursors to reputed Novichoks.
3) Discussions allude to predicted properties likely to be conferred by specific chemical modifications to reputed Novichoks. These include ability to penetrate rubber and other materials used to protect against CWs;
the ability to prevent efficacy of known antidotes; and the likely half life of the compound (the military would like short lived ones if there is oil to be looted and pillaged; long term to create a death desert for decades).
4) It is hinted that the three exposed compounds 240, 242 and 244 may not have been the ‘Crown Jewels’, rather slightly less perfect variants designed to tie the West up in knots.
Overall, it is a slightly scary amateur blog where those without better thngs to do muse about how to recreate allegedly the most deadly toxins ever made.
But it is of interest if it can be evaluated, translated and critiqued by professional combinatorial chemists interested in serving humanitynot the banksters…..
Hi Craig,
I’ve just made a recording of the relevant part of the Stephen Nolan interview and uploaded it as both a .wav and a .flac file to Dropbox. The links are:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i3iequbmuvlg2la/Craig%20Murray.wav?dl=0 (.wav)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfo39k3usqylzqn/Craig%20Murray.flac?dl=0 (.flac)
The process is simple for any programme that is streamed by the BBC but not available to download directly:
1. Use Audacity (http://www.audacityteam.org/) to record and (if necessary) edit the stream in .wav format.
2. To losslessly reduce the size of the file, use Trader’s Little Helper to convert it to .flac, Monkey’s Audio (.ape), WavPack (.wv), Shorten (.shn) or True Audio (.tta).
3 Play back the file using PotPlayer (https://potplayer.daum.net/), the media player that makes VideoLAN look poor (which it is).
Note: such is the risible quality of the BBC’s direct audio downloads that the above method produces superior results – the former is just quicker when available. Lossless audio has passed the “technically brilliant” BBC by.
Unfortunately for the Skripals there is now only one possible outcome.
The will each receive a dose of Porton Down 4th Generation Nerve Agent Recipe in their hospital beds, they will be dead very soon.
They, the UK Government are digging that hole ever deeper and their lies will eventually find them out.
Another question is “why have we not seen images of the father, daughter or police officer in intensive care or statements from any clinicians caring for them”?
Check the letter to the Times from Stephen Davies, Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust referred to above:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-retaliation-against-russia-s-actions-p5hmpj8jh
In the light of this, the position of the UK government and MSM is astonishing, utterly beyond belief. Quite literally.
.
The government have been foolish or desperate to back themselves into a corner over the Russia narrative. Much as with Brexit, they are now left with little choice but to defend, against all the evidence, a position which many people in Britain and around the world find increasingly implausible.
They have staked their credibility as a government on Russia being to blame – and if it turns out they weren’t, then it’s hard to see anything other than the government collapsing. I foresee, therefore, the government putting intolerable pressure on the investigators to finger Russia, much as was done over Iraq WMDs
Nor does it seem to have occurred to the government that they – and/or Britain – might themselves have been the main political targets of the attempted poisonings by locking themselves into this possibly untenable narrative.
Tom , the Tories narrative has been indefensible and incomprehensible for nearly 40 years. Like Dryden’s political adversary Shadwell. Tories never deviate into sense.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CliRo_RedODpLYZXIDTJYrv8WJSxBLWB/view
What is particularly notable in all this is how easy it is to bamboozle public mind. It is evident however that the people trying to deliver this lie are not very good at it. Maybe they do not need to be to achieve their aim, which is for the public to follow them in to another war.
Who was the rich Russian woman who paid a fortune at the Conservatives’ Black and White Ball auction to play tennis with Boris? Was she mad or was she hoping for something more than hitting a ball over the net?
I found that the question was easily answered.
Boris Johnson defends playing tennis with wife of Putin’s ex-minister in return for £160,000 Tory donation
Lubov Chernukhin also paid £30,000 to have dinner with Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-tennis-russian-billionaire-putin-minister-tory-donation-a8261871.html
The woman’s mad. Send for a lobotomist immediately.